Aa
Withdrawal Comments
I've been on Tram for about two years. Low amounts, i.e., 50mg/day, but some days up to 100 or 150. But 50mg was my average. However, I started to 'creep'. My body must have been getting use to the 50 mg after two year and I started taking an extra 50mg every couple of days, but tried to keep it at 50mg. Because I saw the desire to increase the dosage, I decided to quit. That only took me about two months to get up the nerve. I kept putting it off to the next week. (BTY, I've detroxed from 300mg+/day for three years before - so you can understand my reluctance to start the process - that's a completely different story - full-blown withdrawals)
Anyway, finally I was staring at my final two tabs. Took a whole tab one night, the cut the other in 25mg pieces for the next two nights. Took each half tab each night, and...
I had one good day then the w/d set in.
Basically just 'flu-like' symptoms including 'ear-rush' noise (SSRI w/d), sneezing, and extreme fatigue. I've literally spent more time in bed then awake. I'm lucky. If I can sleep, I can sleep up to 10 hours at a shot (wake up, pee, go back to bed, repeat). What I'm going thru is uncomfortable, and is making be to total ***** to be around. And my concentration level is shot. So today is day 5. I'd like to go out for a walk, but no energy. And 'ear-ringing' and sneezing abound. No diarrhea now, I seem to be over that.
Has anyone else stopped from a low-dose w/d, and if so, about how long did it take to get back to somewhat normal? I just want to get rid of the fatigue and lethargy so I can restart an exercise program and stop laying around in bed.
I have to admit, I live in a country where Tram is an over-the-counter drug, but the government has put some restrictions on it's sale and most pharmacies have decided to just stop selling in order to by-pass the government paperwork, so it's difficult to obtain, but it is cheap $2/strip of 10. I'm sort of glad they did that because it just becomes too much of a hassle to find a constant supply, and without the supply, I'm happy to just quit for good.
So, any other 'low-dosers' out there who have gone through w/d? Comments appreciated.
Anyway, finally I was staring at my final two tabs. Took a whole tab one night, the cut the other in 25mg pieces for the next two nights. Took each half tab each night, and...
I had one good day then the w/d set in.
Basically just 'flu-like' symptoms including 'ear-rush' noise (SSRI w/d), sneezing, and extreme fatigue. I've literally spent more time in bed then awake. I'm lucky. If I can sleep, I can sleep up to 10 hours at a shot (wake up, pee, go back to bed, repeat). What I'm going thru is uncomfortable, and is making be to total ***** to be around. And my concentration level is shot. So today is day 5. I'd like to go out for a walk, but no energy. And 'ear-ringing' and sneezing abound. No diarrhea now, I seem to be over that.
Has anyone else stopped from a low-dose w/d, and if so, about how long did it take to get back to somewhat normal? I just want to get rid of the fatigue and lethargy so I can restart an exercise program and stop laying around in bed.
I have to admit, I live in a country where Tram is an over-the-counter drug, but the government has put some restrictions on it's sale and most pharmacies have decided to just stop selling in order to by-pass the government paperwork, so it's difficult to obtain, but it is cheap $2/strip of 10. I'm sort of glad they did that because it just becomes too much of a hassle to find a constant supply, and without the supply, I'm happy to just quit for good.
So, any other 'low-dosers' out there who have gone through w/d? Comments appreciated.
Yo, salizander. Dropped in to see if there were any replies to my overly lng post. Not sure if you were responding to my post but my intake was 15 to 20 per day taken 7 to 10 at a time. My taper lasted three months. On my last day, I took just two. I am now past the withdrawal symptoms, except that it easy for me to nod off. Being over 60, I am not sure if this a withdrawal symptom or a benefit at this point! I know I am fortunate because some folks have withdrawal that goes on for weeks or months and include terrible psychological effects.
One pill a day? I wish I would have had that type of "addiction". Anyway, keep at it. You'll be done with this very soon.
Tramadol has an opoid aspect, albeit a weak one. Opoids are addictive; no scientist or junkie I know would dispute that. So there we disagree, but that's okay. No hare feelings. I was posting on another thread that happened to be over 8 years old and saw you had posted there as well. I have read NIMH scholarly articles claiming an abuse rate of 1 (one) per 100,000 for tramadol. That's nuts. If you look at the numbers of people who post about their problems with withdrawal, the complexity and length of withdrawal symptoms and the pharmacology of the drug itself it is clear that this is a more pernicious drug than plain old opiates but the opiate aspect certainly plays a part..
It seems to me that opiate aspect is at the fore for the withdrawals for the first 3-5 days. Since these are quite uniform--a lot like having a a very bad case of stomach flu. For most, they focus on these symptoms as well they should. The urge to cave in and reuse is quite inviting at this time to say the least.
With tramadol withdrawals, as bad as those days may be, those early days may be a blessing compared to days or weeks that follow. Because with tramadol you get a triple whammy (and there may be other metabolic/neuroactive pathways that are not known). With these other two pathways, the withdrawals seem to take longer, often much longer. Also they are more disturbing psychologically. I am going to share my thoughts and what I think I know about them here. I hope they offer some perspective and hope:
So, with tramadol, first, we get the mu-opoid receptor agonist aspect, releasing delightful endorphins and making this a mild narcotic. But, except for codeine which can only be metabolized at a certain rate, mild means nothing. Mild just means we gotta take more to get high because without exception so far as I know tolerance is a given with opiates and ratchets up the need as you go (I went for over 15 years).
As an analgesic pain medication I have heard it said that for a naive user a 50mg tramadol equates to maybe 3 to 5mg of hydrocodone. That ain't much. Well, let's not forget about the exquisite euphoria offered by the poppy which is defined as "the experience of intense feelings of well-being, elation, happiness, excitement and joy." Really, to someone who has never "kicked the gong" they just don't know and are better off not knowing how wonderful those feelings are. So we get withdrawals from ending that because our brains and intestines were in heaven and now they aren't. However they the intense withdrawals are well-documented and have a known and limited length--3 to 5 days. Stick that out and you can function again and then you deal with the cravings as best you can. And if you can, they subside too. For opiate withdrawal, much more can be said and you are invited to read more, but my little write-up about this aspect ends here. But with tramadol, there is more.
Second with tramadol we get the inhibition of serotonin reuptake when we take it. Serotonin is pretty well established as another contributor to feelings of well-being and happiness. The serotonin aspect of tramadol abuse and ratcheting up the dose that is most disconcerting is that too much serotonin floating around may very well cause grand mal seizures. Not fun, especially if you are, say driving. There is no evidence of serotonin level tolerance development, so as you take more and more tramadol you are adding more risk of serotonin syndrome and seizures.
There are literally millions of people including famous people who have told their stories about depression, who take drugs in controlled doses that successfully inhibit serotonin reuptake and releive their depression. These are called as a class "SSRI" drugs and they include Celexa etc. When you stop taking tramadol you are trashing serotonin levels your brain has become accustomed to to a certain extent, just as you are trashing your endorphin levels with the opiate withdrawal aspect. Is is so surprising then, that you might feel a little or a lot depressed when you stop? For a long time? Maybe even suicidal? Watch for that. You can easily get help without even having to tell the Dr. your tramadol saga if you don't want to do so.
Third, with tramadol, we get inhibition of the reuptake of norepinephrine which is sometimes called noradrenaline. It is a hormone and neurotransmitter most responsible for vigilant concentration, in contrast to the chemically similar hormone, dopamine, which is most responsible for cognitive alertness (Dopamine flooding is what your basic meth addict loves). Norepinephrine is also the chemical that is released to stimulate the "flight or fight" response. To be candid, I can't figure out how this contributes to pain relief. I suspect it would have been thrown in to counteract the the u-opoid binding/endorphin raising sleepiness potential--to increase your ability to function and think clearly. When you start reading about norepinephrine you find that it has its fingers in a lot of physiological pies including murky relationships to the brain's "reward system" and even blood pressure as it has a whole 'nuther deal going with the heart and circulatory system. To me the short lesson here is when you stop taking tramadol you are messing with norepinephrine too and if you get panic attacks, muscle cramping etc. sudden withdrawal of this could be the main contributor. Plus norepinephrine is a chemical, the imbalance of which, might have other functions and consequences that we don't understand.
Other stuff and conclusions: When you read articles about the pharmacology of tramadol, note the article dates. Some are over a decade old. The newer they are, the more they seem to suggest that this drug may have a lot more uses (sorry, but I think those scientists may have been funded by drug companies) and/or that there seem to be other chemical mechanisms at play and being studied. Tramadol is a complex drug--too complex for its own good and OUR own good. I'm all done now. I don't want to be YOUR experiment, doc. I personally think this was a promising drug that should have been pulled from the market long ago as the tragedies accumulated.
On the hopeful side, for those who got through the first days, struggling with long term follow-on symptoms can be managed. For depression, anxiety, panic attacks, heart or circulatory problems, lethargy and sleep problems, there are mainstream medical resources for you. For cravings I am a poor resource. By the time I tapered and finally quit I did so because I was just taking the stuff to feel normal and hadn't been high on it for years. I have no cravings, only contempt for the drug and personal regret.
It seems to me that opiate aspect is at the fore for the withdrawals for the first 3-5 days. Since these are quite uniform--a lot like having a a very bad case of stomach flu. For most, they focus on these symptoms as well they should. The urge to cave in and reuse is quite inviting at this time to say the least.
With tramadol withdrawals, as bad as those days may be, those early days may be a blessing compared to days or weeks that follow. Because with tramadol you get a triple whammy (and there may be other metabolic/neuroactive pathways that are not known). With these other two pathways, the withdrawals seem to take longer, often much longer. Also they are more disturbing psychologically. I am going to share my thoughts and what I think I know about them here. I hope they offer some perspective and hope:
So, with tramadol, first, we get the mu-opoid receptor agonist aspect, releasing delightful endorphins and making this a mild narcotic. But, except for codeine which can only be metabolized at a certain rate, mild means nothing. Mild just means we gotta take more to get high because without exception so far as I know tolerance is a given with opiates and ratchets up the need as you go (I went for over 15 years).
As an analgesic pain medication I have heard it said that for a naive user a 50mg tramadol equates to maybe 3 to 5mg of hydrocodone. That ain't much. Well, let's not forget about the exquisite euphoria offered by the poppy which is defined as "the experience of intense feelings of well-being, elation, happiness, excitement and joy." Really, to someone who has never "kicked the gong" they just don't know and are better off not knowing how wonderful those feelings are. So we get withdrawals from ending that because our brains and intestines were in heaven and now they aren't. However they the intense withdrawals are well-documented and have a known and limited length--3 to 5 days. Stick that out and you can function again and then you deal with the cravings as best you can. And if you can, they subside too. For opiate withdrawal, much more can be said and you are invited to read more, but my little write-up about this aspect ends here. But with tramadol, there is more.
Second with tramadol we get the inhibition of serotonin reuptake when we take it. Serotonin is pretty well established as another contributor to feelings of well-being and happiness. The serotonin aspect of tramadol abuse and ratcheting up the dose that is most disconcerting is that too much serotonin floating around may very well cause grand mal seizures. Not fun, especially if you are, say driving. There is no evidence of serotonin level tolerance development, so as you take more and more tramadol you are adding more risk of serotonin syndrome and seizures.
There are literally millions of people including famous people who have told their stories about depression, who take drugs in controlled doses that successfully inhibit serotonin reuptake and releive their depression. These are called as a class "SSRI" drugs and they include Celexa etc. When you stop taking tramadol you are trashing serotonin levels your brain has become accustomed to to a certain extent, just as you are trashing your endorphin levels with the opiate withdrawal aspect. Is is so surprising then, that you might feel a little or a lot depressed when you stop? For a long time? Maybe even suicidal? Watch for that. You can easily get help without even having to tell the Dr. your tramadol saga if you don't want to do so.
Third, with tramadol, we get inhibition of the reuptake of norepinephrine which is sometimes called noradrenaline. It is a hormone and neurotransmitter most responsible for vigilant concentration, in contrast to the chemically similar hormone, dopamine, which is most responsible for cognitive alertness (Dopamine flooding is what your basic meth addict loves). Norepinephrine is also the chemical that is released to stimulate the "flight or fight" response. To be candid, I can't figure out how this contributes to pain relief. I suspect it would have been thrown in to counteract the the u-opoid binding/endorphin raising sleepiness potential--to increase your ability to function and think clearly. When you start reading about norepinephrine you find that it has its fingers in a lot of physiological pies including murky relationships to the brain's "reward system" and even blood pressure as it has a whole 'nuther deal going with the heart and circulatory system. To me the short lesson here is when you stop taking tramadol you are messing with norepinephrine too and if you get panic attacks, muscle cramping etc. sudden withdrawal of this could be the main contributor. Plus norepinephrine is a chemical, the imbalance of which, might have other functions and consequences that we don't understand.
Other stuff and conclusions: When you read articles about the pharmacology of tramadol, note the article dates. Some are over a decade old. The newer they are, the more they seem to suggest that this drug may have a lot more uses (sorry, but I think those scientists may have been funded by drug companies) and/or that there seem to be other chemical mechanisms at play and being studied. Tramadol is a complex drug--too complex for its own good and OUR own good. I'm all done now. I don't want to be YOUR experiment, doc. I personally think this was a promising drug that should have been pulled from the market long ago as the tragedies accumulated.
On the hopeful side, for those who got through the first days, struggling with long term follow-on symptoms can be managed. For depression, anxiety, panic attacks, heart or circulatory problems, lethargy and sleep problems, there are mainstream medical resources for you. For cravings I am a poor resource. By the time I tapered and finally quit I did so because I was just taking the stuff to feel normal and hadn't been high on it for years. I have no cravings, only contempt for the drug and personal regret.
I agree, the more we force ourselves to do things the better we will feel. I can't tell you I feel 100% at day 19 but I can tell you day 19 is 100% better than day 1 and 75% better than day 6 (if that makes sense).
Wish I could say I can't tell I even took a damn pill but I can tell I'm not taking them. My appetite is back, I'm getting some rest when I sleep and I feel like doing things without forcing myself.
Yes I still feel exhausted, body hurts (lower back the most) and this depression is something else. But none of it is nowhere near as bad as it was when I started my recovery. Just keeping our minds clear of whatever triggers us to wanting pills. I still have problems figuring out my triggers but I know what triggers the good moments.
You got this, we have this, let God have it.
((John))
Wish I could say I can't tell I even took a damn pill but I can tell I'm not taking them. My appetite is back, I'm getting some rest when I sleep and I feel like doing things without forcing myself.
Yes I still feel exhausted, body hurts (lower back the most) and this depression is something else. But none of it is nowhere near as bad as it was when I started my recovery. Just keeping our minds clear of whatever triggers us to wanting pills. I still have problems figuring out my triggers but I know what triggers the good moments.
You got this, we have this, let God have it.
((John))
Tramadol is severely addicted! I was addicted and consider myself an addict BECAUSE of tramadol alone!
One week in. Feel like a pile of rat crap. Generally fatigue, malaise, and just not feeling well. The sneezing tells me I'm still in w/d along with any comment I made about not having diarrhea. Got it now. Today was a scheduled exercise day. I sucked it in a pumped out my calisthenics. Not an endorphin in sight, but a pat on the back for getting it done. Drinking filtered water with a bit of sea salt and baking soda to stay hydrated. Hate the fatigue and general feeling of just not wanting to do anything. Hard to stay focused. Anyway, one week down. Yeah!
I've done this before. This is child's play compared to the first time coming off 300mg/day for 3 years. That was full blow opiate withdrawals. RLS, sweats, nausea, insomnia, etc. By the way, I agree with the Doctors. Tram isn't addictive. I'm in w/d but I have no desire to take it, but to say it isn't 'addictive' in the sense that once you decide to pull the plug and stop taking it doesn't mean your not going though opiate w/d. You are. So any doctor who prescribes Tram should say, "Tram isn't addictive, but once you decide to stop, you better have a withdrawal plan, because you are going to have w/d.
I've done this before. This is child's play compared to the first time coming off 300mg/day for 3 years. That was full blow opiate withdrawals. RLS, sweats, nausea, insomnia, etc. By the way, I agree with the Doctors. Tram isn't addictive. I'm in w/d but I have no desire to take it, but to say it isn't 'addictive' in the sense that once you decide to pull the plug and stop taking it doesn't mean your not going though opiate w/d. You are. So any doctor who prescribes Tram should say, "Tram isn't addictive, but once you decide to stop, you better have a withdrawal plan, because you are going to have w/d.
Hi! Congrats on your Day 5!!
I don't have much to add that the others didn't already tell you but let me say this... My last detox, I was the same! I could t do a darn thing, even taking a shower was a chore! Finally... Day 6 maybe, I FORCED myself to get up and get some sort of exercise bc I knew it was the only thing I could do to make me feel better! I worked my way up each day with breaks in between
" moving "... It was then that the energy slowly but surely returned. Trust me I KNOW it's hard, we all do, we have all been there!! But the advice you receive here from others is spot on, take it and run with it!
Your going to be okay, your going to do this!! Failure will never be an option if your desire and determination is strong enough!
Force some Gatorade or water and take a short walk... Even if it's to the mailbox and back!
I am cheering for you!!! Post as often as you need!!
Hugs
DTS
I don't have much to add that the others didn't already tell you but let me say this... My last detox, I was the same! I could t do a darn thing, even taking a shower was a chore! Finally... Day 6 maybe, I FORCED myself to get up and get some sort of exercise bc I knew it was the only thing I could do to make me feel better! I worked my way up each day with breaks in between
" moving "... It was then that the energy slowly but surely returned. Trust me I KNOW it's hard, we all do, we have all been there!! But the advice you receive here from others is spot on, take it and run with it!
Your going to be okay, your going to do this!! Failure will never be an option if your desire and determination is strong enough!
Force some Gatorade or water and take a short walk... Even if it's to the mailbox and back!
I am cheering for you!!! Post as often as you need!!
Hugs
DTS
30 pullups; 40 squats; Couldn't drag my butt out the door to walk. I'll try tomorrow. Exercise is going to be the key.
I think that fatigue and lethargy will be will you for the next month. Exercise is the magic pill for this. With that said, it's like suggesting food to someone throwing up. When it takes all the energy you have just to make coffee, bicycling 10 miles seems out of the question. It IS the best thing you can do though. I would ride that 10 miles on my lunch break at work. I'd come back completely exhausted. Then, in about 20 minutes I'd start I get this feeling. I know this feeling. This is like my pills. It was my natural endorphins. Oh what a joy. It would last for about 30 minutes. Then back to normal. But a good normal. Exercise is the solution if you can do it.
You were on a very low dose. This should all pass pretty quickly.
You were on a very low dose. This should all pass pretty quickly.
Hi Bob_From_Berkeley.. Welcome ! I would suggest You force yourself out of bed and walk as much as you can, If you can not walk exercise our just do busy work around the house. The trams have been producing the feel good endorphin your brain needs for energy and mood and now it is no more.. so You have to start making them on your own and to do that You have to Move. so Force yourself up and out the wd symptoms will ease much faster and while you are Forcing yourself to exercise you feel so much better ! Make sure you are drinking lots of water and eating clean.. Hope you are thinking of getting outside support to manage you addiction thru either AA NA Counseling as it is important to get to the root cause of why we want to numb ourselves, even with low doses we are numbing.. Congratulations on getting off the life stealing drugs !! I wish you the very best ! lesa
I'm going through through smaller amounts.
I was taking Tramadol 8 to 10+ 50mg daily and have all the symptoms you mentioned.
I'm past my 2nd week ct and feeling 85-90% better.
Wish I could tell you it's going to be easy but that's not true.
You got this, we have this so let God have it.
((John)
I was taking Tramadol 8 to 10+ 50mg daily and have all the symptoms you mentioned.
I'm past my 2nd week ct and feeling 85-90% better.
Wish I could tell you it's going to be easy but that's not true.
You got this, we have this so let God have it.
((John)
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