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Addiction: Substance Abuse Community
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Avatar universal

Withdrawl..

What withdrawl is worse, Vicodin or Valium?  Just having a debate with a friend and we would like to get your opinions.. Thanks..
72 Responses
Avatar universal
Valium is a benzodiazapene,  the withdrawals from this class of drug COLD TURKEY is very dangerous....SPOOK can help you with this better than I can but it is dangerous....Vicodin WD's are terribly uncomfortable but Valium can be deadly....cindi
Avatar universal
Well I know from my sister-n-law that withdrwal's from Valium can be very dangerous. When she tried to quit cold turkey she had a nervous breakdown and the Doctor said she has to be slowly tapered off that she could not just quit like that. And that was after taking them for about five years 3x day @10 mg a tablet.Now I don't know much about Vicodin but I would seek the advice of my doctor before quiting..Bizz
Avatar universal
I have withdrawn from Vicodin, and not a benzie, I'd hate to think that it could be worse than it was...but I suppose it could..
Avatar universal
Well I would just like to say that actually I have been offered some valium... And I had the courage to say no due to the wisdom I have received at this site...  Actually after reading everything I realized that a few years back it wasn't a mental breakdown I was going through but withdrawl from about 25 Valium that I was given (taken over a course of time that is).  I never knew that it was but due to the people here on this forum talking truth it made my past make sense.  I only asked about the Valium and Vicodin thing because I have been through both myself and the withdrawl from Vicodin was more of physical pain and thinking back the Valium thing was more sycotic.  I was delusional and paranoid.  Just to think that only a hand full of valium could do such a thing.  Vicodin in my experience could have been a more gental withdrawl have I had known that I couldn't just quit cold turkey and cut myself down.  Thinking back on the valium I really didn't take that much for very long and now realize that that was a dangerous thing to do...  Again I am glad I had this site to go to, to get wisdom because I may have taken the valium this person offered me and freaked out once again... Thanks all and keep posting and informing people of the dangers... Talk to you later, from a person real happy to have the wisdom of valium withdrawls and the courage to say NO this evening..

:o)
Avatar universal
I am real glad that you made the decision to turn down the valium.  That took a lot of guts & self control to do!

I used to get bottles of 100 10mg tablets of Valium plus 3 refills from my former doctor!  I used them to reduce my anxiety when snorting cocaine.  Without the valium, I could not do the coke.  Weird way to use Valium since I did not need it if I wasn't doing Coke.  Eventually I stopped doing Coke & found my need for Valium diminishing.

I had no idea about the dangers of stopping Valium use, especially such a high dose - 50 to 100mg many days.  I never suffered any withdrawal from the Valium but I did drop down to 5mg a day over a number of years.  I was VERY lucky I guess!

Turns out the doctor who was nice enough to prescribe so many V's to me had an alcohol problem & got very sick & died at age 53.  He was an excellent doctor but everyone in his office kept things going while he drank himself to death.

I eventually discovered painkillers after a back injury & found my new drug of choice.  Last July I went to an inpatient detox facility to get sober.  I could not stop taking them myself & trying to detox at home was impossibly painful.  So the farther away you can keep yourself away from Valium & opiates, the better off you'll be.  They are a one way street to hell!

Good luck Jay-Jay.

Gene
Avatar universal
Hello Gene, I read your forome reply and it sounded very helpful. I was wondering if you are still off the painkillers? How maney were you taking? I went to inpatient detox also, one month ago and I am very discouraged to find I am very depressed and feeling as though I am wearing out. I keep thinking that Being on the pill was better than constant depression and hopelesnes! I was taking 80 mg of hydro a day. This really sucks. I just feel if I could take a couple Norco, I could at least have a few hours of relief. Thank for any help you can give. I'm glad for you that you doing well.  Shane
Avatar universal
Shane, are you taking any antidepressants.  I know when my husband came out of rehab 2-years ago, he was on antidepressants for his depression.  Actually, he is still on them, although using again.
I think they are very important especially if it was depression that got you into your drug use in the first place.  The most common causes of drug use, i believe, are depression and anxiety.  They say, after a while, when you brain has the chance to recover from the drug use, it will start making the "happy" chemicals again, and you will start to feel better.
Some info on this forum about the use of an amino acid called L-Tyrosine is extremely interesting.  It is an amino acid that works with the part of the brain that controls moods, and feelings.  You can read a much more scientific explanation of what this amino acid does within Q's in this forum.
Good luck, and now that it will get better.  Have you tried meetings?  Support is a must in getting through the recovery process!
Good luck!!!!
Lv Jenny
Avatar universal
Thanks so much for your reply Jenny. I have been taking ssri's and busbar for depresion and anxiety for several years now. I agree that these things often lead to addiction.I've always self medicated with one thing or another. But when I found this (hydrocodone) Helped so much with all these things I just could't put it down! It's hard to get over the fact that somthing that helps me function and relieves these symtoms is worse than being on med's that don't really help much. Very frustrating!! I'am now just starting to look at treatment for bi-polar. It sounds like much of what I'm dealing with. Extreme high's and low's. I've lost faith though after going through the intire prosess of ADHD treatment to no avail, I wonder If this is just the latest medical insurance sale's job. Sorry to ramble, Bless You Alway's.  Shane
Avatar universal
All i can say is "hang in there".  There are some wonderful people on this forum who have managed to kick this awful addiction and are in recovery.  I am not, so i feel it difficult to give you good advance, as i would feel like a hypocriate (sorry, horrible speller).
I know that i am in hell here while using these drugs, it has to be better on the other side, and it WILL get better for you.  I was pregnant last year and was alcohol and drug-free during that time, and felt fantastic.  I am so sorry that I feel back into this addictive life, i was fore-warned, and didn't take the advice.  I had a hole to fill, and i filled it alright!!!!  It's getting to the point now, where it is robbing me of too many things in my life; all feelings so far, but i know it will get much much worse.
Hang strong, and be patient, you will feel better.  Don't let the drugs win!
Lv Jenny
Avatar universal
Hello Jenny, I appreciate your words of encouragement.It means a lot to me at this time. I far from think of you as a hipocryte(?) me too, but as someone who unfortionatly has experiance with this terrible addiction and the compassion to try and help others. I know in my mind everything you say is so true and yet I still try to find justification to pick it up again. What a cruel paradox. Thanks so much for the help. I hope and pray you find you way out. LV Shane
Avatar universal
Thanks for the nice words.  Hang in there Shane, it WILL get better.  It was a least 4 weeks before I started to come back to life after my detox.

Unfortunately, I am using again.  My chronic headaches came back the minute I stopped using Oxycontin.   I lasted 3 months until I got a few Perc's & took them to see if they would help my headaches.  They did!!  I got some more & some more & then graduated back to Oxycontin, my favorite drug!

I had learned to take Oxycontin nasally when I first tried that drug.  Having done Cocaine in the early 80's, I was familiar with the skills of snorting drugs.  I easily started snorting Oxycontin & continue to do that today.  When you ingest it nasally, you get the full effect of the opiate instead of only 30% when swallowing it whole.  That makes the withdrawal sooo much harder.

I have managed to hide my usage for the past 7 months however, I have spent tens of thousands of dollars that I don't really have.  (credit card cash advances, credit lines, savings accounts)  You can easily see how strong this addiction really is & to what lengths I will go to to avoid withdrawal.  I want to stop really badly but I don't want to do another inpatient stint.

So I keep planning to start my taper tomorrow & to tell my wife the truth next week.  I need all the hope & help in the world!

Gene
Avatar universal
Good luck Gene, you CAN do it!!!!
Pull out the big guns, and use everything and anything you can to beat this.  Go to meetings, get a sponser, go to counseling.  If you really want it, you can beat it!  Tell you wife, she can support you and help you get to where you want to be.
We filed bankruptcy 1.5 years ago, and it was an awful feeling.  We went from A+ credit to ****! Addiction is very strong, but if you want to beat it bad enough, you can!
Much luck with your tapering, i truly hope it works for you!
Jenny
Avatar universal
Hey everyone... thought you may enjoy this... It gives me strength and acts as a reminder at time when the urge to relapse comes on...

One night I had a wondrous dream, A set of prints on the sand was seen, The footprints of my precious Lord, Yet mine were not along the shore.  But then a stranger print appeared, I asked the Lord, "What have we here?" This print is large and round and neat, But Lord it's just too big for feet."  "My child," He said in somber tones, "For miles I carried you alone, I challenged you to seek My face, Take up your cross and walk in grace." "You disobeyed, you would not grow.  You would not stand against the flow.  Your neck was stiff, your ears were shut, So there I dropped you on your butt," "Because in life there comes a time, When one must fight, when one must climb, When one must rise and take a stand, Or leave one's butt-print in the sand."

-Anonymous

Have a good evening all... 8o)
Avatar universal
Thanks for the encouragement, Jenny.  My wife was real supportive  when I detoxed the first time but she told me she would not stand for a relapse & would boot me out if I did so.  I think she might support me this time except for the fact that I put us about $40,000 in debt just in the past 7 months.  I still can't believe I spent that much money.  I think I deserve to be thrown out for what I did.

So I'll see what she does when I tell her the truth.  Whatever happens, happens.  I accept my fate with the family.  I will also get sober, that much I know for sure!

Thanks again,

Gene
Avatar universal
Wow!  what a typo!  Make that Jennyfla, not Jennyflbba!!

Sorry Jenny,

Gene
Avatar universal
Speaking as someone who was addicted to both Vicodin and various benzos, including Valium, for more than 10 years running, withdrawal from high doses of Valium or other benzos like Xanax or Klonopin is much, much worse, even life-threatening than Vicodin. Acute withdrawal from a benzodiazepine (valium, etc.) class drug can cause "petit mal" or "absence" seizures. It starts when you discontinue the benzo, which causes tension to build up in the shoulders, arms and causes tingling in the hands (consider these the warning signs of an impending benzo seizure) over the next few days, it culminates in a seizure, in which you instantly lose consciousness for several minutes, bite your tongue (hopefully not swallowing it at the same time). I know because I've been on Xanax for several years and am now trying to get off of it. My doctor never bothered to warn me about benzo-withdrawal seizures. I didn't discover them until I had one while waiting in the pharmacy for a refill(!). I have tried two more times to get off of the Xanax, but each time used my supply too quickly and wound up in seizure again. In fact, the last seizure I had was last night! Although after a brief period of mental "fuzziness" or vagueness about common pieces of information, I recovered, as far as I can tell, completely. I'm a technical writer for the software industry and I haven't noticed any loss of memory where my job is concerned.

Here's the scary thing about yesterday in particular: I had the seizure at work in front of my co-workers (they were very supportive and even paid my medical bills). But the point is, I was within 15 minutes of getting  behind the wheel of my car and heading down the Coast Highway at 60 MPH. Imagine the possible outcomes if I had had that seizure while driving? Forget myself - imagine killing one or two innocent people, or putting someone in a wheelchair with permanent brain damage? Could you live with that? I'm not sure I could.

As far as Vicodin goes, vic withdrawal is like a bad intestinal flu: fever, cold sweats, diaharea, limb cramps, insomnia, anorexia, craving for vics. You can combat the symptoms rather effectively thus:
1. (if you're not trying to get off of Valium), use enough Valium in the first few days to make you mostly sleep through the first few (worst days), then taper the dose down to nothing over the next week or less. The Valium will also make you eat like a pig, which will be therapeutic in itself.
2. Take lots of hot baths or Jacuzzis, as many as you can stand.
3. Buy ahead of time name-brand Imodium and take the full dose (two) at every hint of the runs, no mater how slight.
4. Get some potent multi-vitamins and take them every day.
5. Get some L-Tyrosine and B6 caps at the health food store. In the morning, on an empty stomach, take 4-thousand (4000) mgs - eight 500mg. caps -  of L-tyrosine plus 200 mg of B6. Don't eat anything for an hour or so. This will help your brain replenish its own stores of vital neurotransmitters dompamine and norepinephrin - two vital brain substances depleted by chronic use of narcotics. Use the L-Tyrosine and B6 like this every other day for about 6 months, than quit for a while, or you can develop a tolerance.
6. Force yourself to do some exercise (you won't want to). At least walk around the block a couple times a day, or swim in a pool if you have one.  Good luck!
Avatar universal
Tom,  I just read your story and it's like looking on a mirror.......I would like to hear more about using L-Tyrosine and vitamin B6 for kicking YEARS of vic, perc, oxycontin dependance.  I started from a back injury and went to hell from there.......(as you most know)...I want out of this bottemless pit.....I'm trying to do this at home on my own...so much at risk.  Will take any hepful suggestions.......
Thank you in advanced,
Wizard
Avatar universal
Thomas, I think I responded to Tom and I now see that there is a Tom online..I was directing my questions to Thomas who was responding to Jay Jay I believe.........I'll take help from anybody though......
Bless you ALL,
Wizard
Avatar universal
What I know about L-Tyrosine (and B6) comes from spook in Australia, as well as from my personal experience using the combo to recover from primarily vicodin use. It goes like this:

Opiates and opioid drugs like vicodin, morphine, oxy, etc., are mistaken by the human brain for endorphins. Because the brain is always trying to keep its chemical soup in balance, the brain compensates for the continual presence of artificial endorphins by reducing or curtailing its own production of natural endorphins. This is why you feel so terrible when you try to kick narcotics. Your brain is reacting to the lack of endorphins, artificial or otherwise.

L-Tyrosine (with B6 to aid in its absorption) provides the recovering opiate addict's brain with the "raw material" it needs to create natural endorphins (exercise helps, too, of course). If you're like me, part of the withdrawal experience is just feeling mentally dead, listless, achy and depressed. The L-Tyrosine and B6 will help you recover your stores of dopamine and norepinephrin. The dopamine is responsible for your overall sense of well-being and your ability to experience pleasure. The norepinephrin will restore your mood, memory, mental energy, ambition and overall alertness. If taken per my instructions in the other post, you'll feel the difference with the very first dose. One suggestion, don't drink any coffee at or near the time you take the L-Tyrosine (you won't need it). They sell this stuff at health food stores for about $16 per bottle of 50 500mg capsules. I know 4000 mg sounds like a lot, but, according to spook, that's the dose necessary to realize results (that and 200 mg of B6 and lots of water). They say to take it on an empty stomach. About the only time my stomach is empty is in the morning, although some people take it at bedtime.

If you're withdrawing from the narcs, give the combo a try. What have you got to lose? Good luck.

Thomas
Avatar universal
Thank You so much for the info...............I'm hitting 36 hours right now and feel like.........well you know..........I have to make it this time, and I will!!!!I'll keep checking in.........
Thanks to you and all of the rest for sharing the info and support..
Wizard
Avatar universal
Hey all! Just wanted to say I tried Thomas's above remedy and I'm now into about 48 hours.  I think it is helping..Either that or just the mental suggestion that it will work is working. :-)
Definantly have some Imodium on hand.  I think that was the worst part yesterday...We'll see how today goes......reading about all of you sure makes me feel so not alone....I wish I had more computer time, but then I would probably ramble on anyway to keep my mind sharp....Well, thanks again and peace to all of you...
God help us,
Wizard
Avatar universal
hey everyone. would someone explain duragesic (fentenyl). i am currently on 200ug/h every three days. how hard is this to come off of? i have been down the oxy. road, i was snorting 480mgs a day,+ taking dextermathorphan i did this approx. 1 year. i had to go to detox for this it nearly killed me. i am on the patch for a crushed heel that can not be repaired. the patch is good for now, because i tend not to abuse it like i did the oxy, would someone please comment about this issue.i am trying to research duragesic, sounds to me like it may be bad also. however i am NOT
Avatar universal
I have just learned that my husband is addicted to Darvon and Oxy.  I have found large amounts of both at our home.  He left myself and our two year old and entered a re-hab program somewhere but I am unsure where (his parents will not tell me).  I am curious to those who have experience with these drugs-  how much do they cost- I found 40mg oxy and standard capsul Darvon. He has caused us so much debt and taken every bit of cash from out bank account over the last six months.  he took (a friend told me) 10-15 Darvons at a time orally and I believe he was snorting since I found a straw.  For all those afraid to tell their wifes/families, I would suggest to do so as the carnage seems to only worsen.  
Thank you

Sad Wife & Child

Avatar universal
as someone who has been addicted to both, it's the oxy that's bankrupted you. Yeah, darvon would cost in terms of paying for the office visits to get te scripts. And the straw was for the oxy. I've ried snorting darvon and one) it burned like hell and two) didn't penetrate my nasal membrane so far as I could tell. Yeah, 10 to 15 darvon is a lot but not impossible. I used ten in my recent past. But it's the oxy that is really costing you and is by far the harder of the two to get off of. My guess is, he only uses the darvon when he can't get the oxy. He did the right thing to go into rehab. I'd applaud him for that, wherever he is.
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