I don't know the answer to your question for sure, but I do believe that taking 5-HTP, L-Tyrosine & B6, and a zinc/magnesium combo tablet can make you feel a noticeable improvement in the lethargy and dysphoria that occurs after opiate withdrawals.
If you want details on the dosages suggested for those supplements and amino acids, let me know.
And by the way, did you use Buprenex to help you withdraw from the oxys?
Meanwhile, hang in there. Time also helps enormusly, generally producing a "felt" improvement almost daily.
Let me know how you're doing.
hi - i would like dosing information for the detox recipe. i read that the recipe info is on the ezboard or something...i ALWAYS have problems getting to anything posted on the ezboard...not sure why. anyhow, any info would be greatly appreciated!!
Here's the info.
But in addition, could I please ask you to email me at ***@**** because I have an urgent question to ask you regarding Buprenex? Really, it's important.
Anyway, here's the dosage info for the supplements part of Dr. Thomas' detox recipe. Hlso recommends Immodium, Valiem, etc. for the first few detox days, but I don't have that info. What follows is just the supplements that supposedly help restore your brain to normal functioning. And people do swear by it, so there's a decent chance that it really does help:
1) 8 X 500mg caps of L-Tyrosine (or 4,000 mg), taken with 2 100 mg. caps of B-6. Take this on an empty stomach first thing in the morning each day for at least the first week of detox. L-Tyrosine restores the dopamine and epinephrine stores in your body.
2) 2 X 50 mg. capsules of 5-HTP, taken 3 times daily at least two hours after taking the L-Tyrosine. You may want to start out taking 3 times 1 50mg cap to see if it upsets your stomach, then work your way up to 3 X 2 50mg caps 3 times daily. Your body metabolizes 5-HTP directly into serotenin, which is seriously depleted during addiction.
3) Get the highest dose zinc + magnesium combination supplement -- I think you can get one that has 500 mg. magnesium and 25 mg. zinc. Take two per day with the L-Tyrosine and B-6. Zinc and magnesium are supposedly seriouslyu depleted during addiction.
That's about it. Like I say, a number of people who have tried these supplements say they can actually feel the difference in terms of relieving some of the lethargy and post-withdrawal depression that afflicts recovering opiate users during the first weeks of recovery. Good luck.
And please, Groovy, email me at ***@****, okay?
i tried to email you, but it came back - your email address must be wrong here...
can't you post your question here? we talk about everything here anyhow - doesn't seem like much doesn't get discussed...ahah
I am so sorry to hear about your emotional drainage. I am not sure of oxy's but I know the withdrawls from hydro produced a lot of deep depression in me. i have heard that the depression from oxys is worse. I don't have any answers for you skipper but I wish i did because I know when someone has a problem you are always there reaching out. Do you think maybe something would work better than the Welbutrin? I will search the other forum to see if there is any info on this. good Luck skipper. And you know as bad as it seems now, it will improve.
Can't imagine why the email would bounce back.
I've never known a person to be so strong as to detox each month, on their own just to prove that you can do it. You amaze me and you are a constant inspiration to me because i think, if Kip can do this every month, i certainly can do this once!
I really believe that the depression will ease off over time, but your detoxes last on average 10 days or so? If you take the route and take oxys again, the depression will ease up, or if you take the route and try to quit, but i know that hard because of your pain, then it WILL get better over time.
Try the 5HTP, i've heard wonderful things about it.
Try to focus on the things that make you happy in your life. You have a wonderful wife (Irishrose), and your cool doggie!!! :)
Maybe try to do some laps, that might cheer you up.
Spring is just around the corner, things will begin to warm up in Nebraska, the sun will shine, the birds will sing and the flowers will come out!!!!
Thank god i live in florida because when i get depressed, i plant flowers. Let's just say i have 'some' flowers in my yard!!! :)
Anyway, just know that everyone loves you here, you are always there for everyone no matter how much you are hurting; you're a very special person, and don't ever forget that!!
To answer your question, as a person who also uses oxys, i do feel that they ger down deep inside, they are very hard to let go of. When you need them for pain is one thing, but when they are abused (like i do), then we're talking playing with a big ball of fire!!!
Hang in there a better day is just around the corner!
Kip my friend, I'm so sorry to hear that depression is hitting you full force like this. I have heard that with oxy depression is a stronger post detox symptom than with hydro, but I know that with my hydro detox, the post detox depression was huge for me as well...I got suicidal thoughts that time, and I've never felt those before.
Something you said made me wonder about a possible reason for this. You've said that with past detoxes the depression never really was that bad. I'm wondering if because you put your body through detox so often that your brain chemistry keeps getting bounced around so much that the depletion of neurotransmitters are just worse than normal. Detox is a very, very stressful event on the body, and especially on the brain's neurotransmitter system. While I *totally* understand your need to know what your true level of pain is, in order to not be on the oxy if you don't have to, I'd suggest you stretch out the detox times to every few months, rather than once a month.
Your pain level may not significantly change in just one month, but over three or four months, it might drop enough for you to no longer need the oxy.
And I'm really wondering if putting yourself through the intense physical stress of detox every 4 to 6 weeks is putting you at greater and greater risk for debilitating depressions.
I'm no doctor, so I may not know what I'm talking about here...but just wanted to put this out there as a though. Take some time to think about how often you think a change in your pain level is likely to occur, and base your detox choice on giving your body a longer break between that roller coaster ride.
And please, go easy on yourself. The world *is* a better place because you are in it.
I've not been posting much, here, or anywhere, but your post really got my attention and I will always be here for you if you need me. You're stuck with me!
And...today is my 6 month clean date. Wow. Whodda thunk it?
lots of love,
I've been on oxy for three and a half years, and during that time for various reasons, I've experienced the depression you're referring to. It's a *******, man. But you gotta keep that gun outta your mouth. I came close and now I'm so damn glad I didn't.
I am taking 150 mg Effexor. It seems to be working well. You can take up to 300 or so.
I recommend you get some Klonopin for the depression duration. But you gotta be careful with that. No sudden stops, just a nice easy taper down to the Valium level, then taper the valium nice and slow. Stay away from the Xanax. That **** is poison. And don't take any of the benzos too long.
Hang in there brother, I'm sending all the energy I can spare in your direction.
Love, Peace, and Light,
I stumbled upon this site ti try and figure out what the exact withdrawl effects are for vics, oxys & delauded and couldn't help but respond to your message...when I stop I get seriously nailed with a very heavy depression (I have depression but the feeling I get after stopping the oxy is very intense). Unfortunately, I think it's just byproduct of it's use (I'm sure there are plenty of physiological and psychological theories to this). IT SUCKS MAJOR!!!! but, it will not kill you...it's hard to deal with when every hour (or minute) a dark thought arises. However, as typical with depression, the intensity is not always there. While your dealing with it try noticing the moments when it's not too intense...I think it can be a sign suggesting that those moments of intensity will gradually lessen and the momnets of feeling normal will return. Also, walking briskly (meaning fast enough to get your heart and blood pumping) for about a 1/2 hour a day helps.
thankyou for your support! things are looking somewhat beter to-
day. hope to post more later
keep an angel on your shoulder
i know i've told you this many times before: you were the first
person to answer my first post to this forum in late spring of
last year. you have always been willing to welcome most every
newcomer. this has not been overlooked (least not by me)! make
no mistake about this, the forum is a far beter place because of
keep an angel on your shoulder & never throww your dreams away!
Skipper is right. You are a very special person.
Hi there - Let me first say that I have never taken narcotics. But my dear MIL has taken them for 20 years for pain (head/neck). After 17 years of percodan and the last two years on MS contin (60 mg x 3), the doctors determined it was time to detox. Increasing levels were not helping her pain - only causing her to sleep all day long.
Anyway, she went through a one week detox in the hospital with the help of buprenorphine. Only 2 days was it unbearable.
However, now that she's home (she's been home for 7 days now), she is extremely depressed. She has never felt depressed in her life so this is very upsetting. She also cannot sleep at night. The doctor just put her on 10 mg Elavil today which I think is too low, but we'll see. I feel so sorry for her. I myself have felt depressed before (severe post-partum depression) and it is the worst feeling. I am very sorry to hear you're going through it too.
I have done a lot of research for my MIL. Narcotics cause euphoria (I know I don't need to tell you this), and after stopping them, it's normal to experience dysphoria for quite some time, depending on how long you've taken the drug.
I just wanted to let you know that my MIL is going through it too - I know MS Contin and Oxycontin are similar.
Best of luck to you - hang in there,
what are the names of the detox substances and where can you get them?
Awww gosh guys! You had to go and make me smile!!! :)
Well I appreciate it, and I won't ever throw away my dreams, they are too special to me!! :)
As long as I have hope, there is hope, and I will try to hold on to that until I can do what needs to be done. From then on, anything is possible, the world will be my oyster (with a big pearl inside)!
Kip, i hope the depression as let up for you, you suffer enough, you don't need depression on top of all your pain!
Littleguy, you're always there for me, everywhere I go, thanks for being you (The biggest heart in Atlanta!!!!! :)
Yes, Jane, it's the post-withdrawal depression and lethargy that are the hardest for recovering addicts to bear. And according to astudy I just read on doctordelucca.com, most relapses occurr not during the first week of detox (when phsyical symptoms are the worst) but during the 2nd -10th weeks or so when this dysphoria and lethargy bear down on us. The single greatest cause of relapse, in fact, is post-withdrawal insomnia.
So it's good that your MIL is receiving at least some medical help for that. But tell her to hang on -- even if it's just day by day -- until the dark cloud passes. Because it absolutely will pass, we know this with certainty. And once it does, her life will be free and open and happy again -- or at least as free and happy as it was before she became addicted.
As for the question on detox meds, if you're referring to Buprenex (called Temgesic in other countries), it's available at various detox clinics in the U.S. as well as by doctor's prescription (although most have never even heard of Buprenex). You can also order it in sublingual tablet form from online pharmacies such as www.healthcarepharma.com.
skip my friend- sounds like you are feeling a little better- but please never forget- that the world is a much better place for you having been here- throughout the last year or longer- you have provided me insights, knowledge, compassion, caring, sympathy, not to mention a whole lot of laughs with some of your stories-
and for that- i thank you
Skip, my friend, what a coincidence that we are both on Welbutrin. I take 300 mgs per day. I've been away from this board for several days but I remember saying in one of my last posts that I would likely be defeated by depression. Being somewhat spiritual, I believe that depression is the Devil's last resort to bring us down for good! When all else fails...?
Sadly, depression is a fatal condition for many of us. I too, have found myself with a pistol's muzzle pressed against my forehead. With me it starts with..."I should just leave, people would be better off without me!" Hah! How egotistical can one get?
If nothing else, you owe your loved ones the pleasure of your presence. Don't ever feel that you are not loved, Kip. You mean so much to the many who you touch in your humble way. Being an "honest to goodness" down to earth and honest person who gives a damn about people is your loving gift to us all!
Hang on, Buddy!
Skip, talk to us.
See how many people here care about you and look up to you.
How's everything going. I know, i hate when people ask me that question too!
Just wanted to let you know that i'm thinking about you, i haven't seen you post very much lately!
Hope things are at least stable with me and you.
Depression is definately an awful disease and much more common than most people know.
I just pray one that that no one will have to suffer from these awful diseases of the mind (addiction, depression, etc.)
Isn't the world hard enough, why are we made to suffer so.
Hang in there, and know you have friends that care and think about you often!
I'm in a bad place myself right now, but I'm thinking about you Skip. You have a real strength in you that I, who spend so much time whining about my "symptoms," really admire.
I hope that strength of yours leads you to some answers -- or at least, some partial answers.
all the addicts:
sorry for not posting for so long. i'm ok mostly. have awful pain
in neck that runs down my right arm. had to go visit my father
who is nursing home and is losing his mind on the instalment
plan. took 20 mgs of oxy-c for car ride (3 1/2 hours). i also
took 20mg for car ride back.
ya know i always thought oxy-c in copious quantity helped me
handle this nursing home stuff. you know watching your father
become less and less the man he once was.... well this time i did
the whole visit clean and believe it or not it went much beter
i will probably go back on oxy thursday after seeing the pain
doc. i want to discuss some other pain control options. i don't
know if it will lead to any thing...
**** i'm sitting at the computer with tears runing down my face.
my wife let out a causual remark about how pleasent it was to
have the "the real kip" back. i'm sure she didn't me for it to
make me feel guilty, but it did.
the way i see it right now i have 3 options:
1) stay on oxy and possiably lose my wife
2) try to find other ways to cope with intractable pain that
don't involve drugs
3) get the gun in my mouth and get me and everyone out of my mis-
i don't like any of these choices. i never thought about what i
would do if i ever actually NEEDED opiate pain killers when i
used to rip off drugstores and shoot all the dope i could put my
hands on! well i guess i'm at the point in my life where many of
my transgessions have caught up with me. (**** i thought i paid
up and cleaned up in jail) i'm not in a good place with any of
this... but i have this forum to draw strength from!
like Jim Foggel said in drug store cowboy, "i think i'll stay
straight today- maybe something good will happen. it doesn't
sound like much, but that's what i got going for me right now.
please remember i am going to love and care about all of you, and
there isn't one god damm thing any of you can do about it! the
really bad days are what make the really good days
so keep an angel on your shoulder
I feel for you, i really do! I know that's not what your looking for, but i can't help it.
I don't think you're going to loose your wife, she cares and loves you very much, i can tell!
Talk to you doctor, look into your options, you never know!
I wish i could be my 'old self' again too, i miss me!
My husband is so far far away, i don't know if i will ever see him again. The only time i 'see' him is when he's in rehab.
He is so in a fog, it scares me because is talking suicide a lot these days. I can't do anything right, everything is my fault, and he's falling apart right in front on my eyes and it tears my heart to shreads to watch. I'm calling someone today, gonna try to get him in to 'talk' to someone at least. Screw the drs, they've never helped in the past, i'm gonna try someone 'real'.
He doesn't need drugs, he needs someone to talk to, and i'm not the right person, it's obviously not helping to talk to me anymore.
Good luck Kip, and know that you help so many, even if it comes at a cost for you, from experience. BUT, remember, we all have a purpose here in this world, and everything is for a reason. I will say a prayer that your pain will decrease so that you will be able to cut your ties with medication forever!!!!