does opiate addiction perminently change brain chemistry?

[Dindin]

I have been using some form of opiate several times a day for almost 20 years.  I am now 36 years old and really sick of it all.  Its hard to believe that I have been like this for so long.  I guess you could call me the ultimate functioning addict. (house, job, husband, children etc.)  There is not a day that goes by that I dont wake up swearing to myself that I will not use, but we all know how that goes.  I did try detox/rehab back in 1995. I was in a 30 day treatment program.  They introduced me to NA but I didnt continue that after I got out. My question is this...  Since I have been using so long, is it possible that I could need opiates for the rest of my life to function normally?  The 30 days in rehab were miserable.  After detox I was seriously emotionally unstable.  I cant handle the way I feel when I am not using..... I am irrational, unstable, suicidal etc.  Is it possible that I have altered my brain chemistry to a point of no return?  I guess I really have not been clean longer than 30 days to find out (I am anticipating some of your reactions so I already said it) But 30 days is more than I can handle.  I have thought about going on MMT but thats a joke.  I have made numerious inquires to clinics only to be put on an indefinite waiting list or told that I need a doc to refer me.Could someone please give me some input on what I should do? If anything? I am at the point where no matter what I do, no matter how much I do. I am still miserable.  My D.O.C. is "H" which I cant always get and I also talke pills everyday, ie; Vicodine, oxy's, perks,  etc.
vicki

[nursegirl6572]

This is a very very old post.  You would be better to start your own thread.  Top right of the page, click the orange "post a question" button.  Keep in mind that this is a site for people looking to recover, not for tips on how to manage their addiction or binges.

Suboxone isn't intended for the way you're using, and most likely you're not waiting long enough after your last opiate dose and you are throwing yourself iunto precipitated w/ds.

[roxxxyqueen]

I have a question. I used to use subs to help my withdrawal and it helped 100% of the time. It never let me down. And now if I use a sub after a binge it makes things/ withdrawal symptoms waaaaaay worse! Sweating constantly, cold, restless leg, itchy bones the whole nine yards. Why? Why did it help me before but now it counter reacts and makes things worse?  

[Ceegirly]

Thanks new to this not sure how to get around the site

[notordinary]

Hi just wanted to let your know you are on an old post.  
Go to top of page.  Click the orange post a question. And ask your question.  
You will have more people help you.

[Ceegirly]

Hello i need help and some advice would be great my husband and i have been addicted to roxy 30 Mg for a couple yrs now and hes been wanting to quit it seems so much easier for him and its like im totally stuck idk what to do as bad as it sounds pills are what we do for fun we dont hang out with friends and going out and partying is not our thing i despratly want to stop this cycle of chasing the drug And habbit what do i do how do i get to be like my husband that is strong enough to just quit its quite frankly ruiening our marriage and life our sex life is nonexistent and idk what to do i want to feel normal again but im scared to death please help on what i cAn do ive always been a full time wife so bordem is one of my biggest problems any advice is appreciated

[psjrn]

Hi Dindin: I am a nurse who is currently in recovery for 5 months.  The brain does take time to heal but healing is possible.  Right now I take Buspar, Cymbalta, Lamictal and Wellbutrin to keep my brain functioning and keep the chemicals producing until my brain can function again.  I was addicted to Vicodin, Oxycodone and Percocet for 20 years after 12 surgeries.  I do go to meetings (not as many as I did in the beginning" but at least 1-2 a week and they help considerably.  I hang out with people in recovery and that helps.  I see a counselor who specializes in addiction once a week.  I keep cose to God and He is turning my chaos into order.  It is worth it,  Not easy at all but well worth it!  I literally take it one day at a time and I still have cravings but I think it through to the end- losing my job, or yes, even dying.  I came close in June with Percocet and Alcohol.  That is not what I had planned for my life.  You can recover.  Just be patient and let your brain heal.  It will begin producing the feel good chemicals again!!  That's a promise.  PJ

[Greatgreebo]

Welcome!! The original post you replied to is almost 8 years old. These people are not here anymore. Go to the TOP of the addiction forum page and hit the green button that says 'post a question'. if you are in this specific comment and not on the main forum and would like to go there, to see the current postings, go to the top of this page and hit the 'back to forum' link (it's blue letters and sits next to the green button). Both of these links are at the top of this page. Start your own post to join the current community. This post will get archived and your post will be lost.

Start a new post and join us all in recovery in the present :-)

Stay strong,
Greatgreebo

[Cory92486]

P.S. i care not to hear about "how many/ how much you used" INSTEAD SIMPLY STATE: circumstances if needed, the num of years, consistently or on+off, mild-moderate-OR-severe addiction lvl. I have read entirely too many blogs/comments that had Too Much Info of "WAR STORIES" OR WHO TOOK HOW MANY OF WHAT!! PLEASE SAVE THAT FOR PERSONAL TALKs
This was in no manner meant to insult anyone...
As i too need support myself

[Cory92486]

Hey, i had been "LOOKING FOR ANSWERS" like soo many of us have certainly done- when i came across this!! yes, great question!! im 24/m began W/ opiates at 16-18 (sports injuries 3 broken arms, 5 surgeries, tendonitis severe in both knees- i WAS a hardcore athlete). at 18 when i ran out of hydrocodone i couldn't take the suicidally severe depression..... so 18-24.5 yrs= 12 psychiatrists, 4 therapists, trial and error of 95% of all pills prescribed for severe depression and anxiety AND AND still today i had to pick my way into a dbl lock safe to get some tylenol 3 and klonopin DUE TO how insanely horriffic i was feeling!! no, no quick fix- as we know. I have done much research on EDS (endorphin deficiency syndrome) and have concluded that for the maaany genetic and environmental factors (2 alcoholic parents- history of suicide and mental illness... esp. anxiety/depression) our BRAIN CHEM. REMAINS F'ED UP FOR YEARS AND YEARS... what we did using to get by (SELF MEDICATION- opiates or alcohol) burned up natural DOPAMINE AND MUCH OF THE DELTA AND MU OPIATE RECEPTORS which pump out endorphins in times of stress and during excercise. it is still insanely difficult.... however take my word for it: SUBOXONE IS NOT ENOUGH, TRAMADOL WORKS BETTER BUT has WORSE WITHDRAWAL, AND METHADONE IS WORSE THAN HEROIN TO KICK IF YOU'VE TAKEN IT 6 MNTHS PLUS. regardless of it all we are still here when many times we did not AT ALL WANT to be!! choose to not give in to the cravings utilize anything and everything non-illicit-drug related.... distractions.... substituting my bad addictions for video games/ TV/and excersice (which i cannot advocate more for)!! EXCERCISE can be the answer your looking for and try that first when in need of help, gotta just do it!!
     please read this!!! OH YEAH, research does prove that consistent moderate excercise regiments DO INDEED increase natural endorphin levels OVER TIME!! so give it time and go easy on yourself and be PATIENT!!
HOPE this HELPS!!
sincerely, Cory  :)

[Briant13]

I too have been addicted to opiates for 20+ years. Like you, I am very concerned about my brain/body chemistry being permanently altered. I have been clean now for 8 months. I was eating oxy 80's 2-3 a day, plus 10-15 hydrocodone/oxycodone a day. At first, I tried the methadone clinic. That lasted about two months. I felt that I would never get clean on that stuff. I met people there that had been going for years. I asked people if they knew anyone who had sucessfully stepped down and gotten off of methadone. No one did. I researched it a bit further and found that less than 1% had sucessfully weened down and then off of methadone. This was not the route for me. I then tried suboxone. It was great. I felt "normal" and didn't really crave opiates anymore. It took me 14 months, but I was able to ween down. Which brings me to the whole "brain chemistry" thing. I haven't had any drugs or alcohol (quit drinking 8 years ago) for 8+ months. Honestly, it blows. But to be fair, I haven't done all I can do to make things better. I still need an exercise regimen and  
A dietary overhaul. I read somewhere that it takes about a month of being clean for every year of abuse to start feeling "normal" again. I believe it. So I'm giving myself 2 years. If at the end of that 2 years I don't feel like I think I should, I will assume my brain chemistry is permanently altered, of course exercise and eating habbits will be the next thing I focus on.
If that don't work, I'll weigh my options then. I sure was alot more productive on drugs. Lol. People that don't use drugs and alcohol are the true "hardcore" people in this world. I miss it, but I am functioning ok. Good luck with your journey.
Brian

[redhed1973]

What is MMT ?

[jrooks1]

does long term use of oxycodone   for 10 years affect your brain long term? meaning it cannot get back to before you starting taking the oxys???

[uvlvrebel]

this sounds like why i haven't wanted to go out.

[wait2long]

hello...you have posted to an old thread..from year 2003..you should repost your question to start your own thread, you may not get many answers here

[opiatessuc]

hey oxic got a ? 4 ya,when u got off the percs,did ur headache's start right away or did it take so many day's after u stopped for the headache's to start up! Reason i'm asking is because i just quit vicodin and perc's,and i haven't had headache's yet,,or i'm in for a rude awakeing in a few more day's! Let me know!

[opiatessuc]

hey guy's/gal's! i have a ? 4 ya all i used opiates 4 seven year's,and i just quit cold turkey 4 day's ago,with withdraw systym's being pretyy light on day 1,2,but on day 3 they kicked in,the feeling of freezing and actually i'm sweating like a pig,and i can't control my jitters very we'll,can anyone plzzzzzz tell me how long it take's for these symptom's to ease up,Now i will tell u exactly what i used and when! I had back surgery in 2000 after i left the hospital from that of course i had a script in my hand for vicodin 750 es.And that doctor that did the surgery kept giving me them for about almost 2 yr's straight or when i ever i wanted them,then outta the blue he cut's me off,of course by then i was addicted to them,so i did what i had 2 to get them,so i started buying them off the street! I got to the point were i was spending about a grand a week on vicodin from 2002 until the end of 06,at the end of 06 i hit rock bottom,i had spent every dime i had,i had to file bankruptcy and i lost everything including my gf of 5 yr's,which we were about to be engaged,and yes she new i was using she just kinda ignored it,but towrds the end when i wasnt paying our bills,the question's started pouring out,and i fessed to everything i was doing,and she packed and left,which i don't blame here one bit So after all that happened i went into a detox program at the beginning of 07,and that doctor put me on suboxone,400 dollar's up front and 200 dollars every month just to get the suboxone,ok that went on until i got my last script over a month and a half ago, so basically what i reallalized i had done was switch one habit for another cuz suboxone still has a opiate in it it's just a milder form then the vicodin,so the withdraws aren't as bad as coming off vicodin (tremors,diaeriah,restless legs,sweating,etc....but still i had got addicted to the suboxone,i took my last suboxone 4 day's ago,so like i asked in the beginning how much longer do i have to go through this bs! thnx all,and by the way i did read every post from top to bottom,and i wanna say to all of u that kicked the habit cold turkey (grat'z) cuz the withdraws blow bad,as i'm sure u all know!,so again thnx to all who do respond!     rick,in michigan!

[Huiler]

What?

[mrmichael67]

My clinic is (or was since I no longer go there) in a nice part of town also.  I guess since a few or so are, they all are, right?

[Jerri2]

Thanks for the laugh!!Serious statements but funny!!Love ya..Jerri

[lisabet]

Thanks to you both for a good hearty laugh.  Sometimes we really do have to laugh at circumstances (however pathetic or sad they are) to just get through the day. Thanks for reminding me of that. I've been in my own "pity party" the last couple of days and I really needed the nudge.  Love ya both, Lisabet

[Huiler]

Okay Methman! I had to print out what you wrote because I wouldn't have been able to remember it all! Thanks for your response. It feels good when someone answers.
Well, #1 Why are all Methadone clinics in a Bad part of town.
Um, well, I've only worked in 2 clinics in 2 different cities. At the first one the clinic moved from a good part of town to a better part of town, within a hospital. The neighbors were up in arms! The most frequently expressed fear that I can remember would be that the addicts would toss used needles into their yards and the children would find them and get diseases. The clinic got moved there anyway.
In the clinic I work in now, the clinic is in kind of an isolated industrial area, not residential, not a drug area...with a lovely auto-junk-yard across the way. (But you can't see most of the junk cars.) Another clinic I know of is in another industrial kind of area
A third one is in a hospital. So I guess I can't really address that question. Except that I guess people in richer neighborhoods might have more political power than people in poorer neighborhoods. Zoning and all. Ya know how it is.
and #2, why is it so easy to get an increase in dosage. I don't know...that doesn't sound like our clinic. The person who collects the money doesn't have anything to do with dosing. After the first month (when it is done through the medical staff), the patient discusses it with their counselor, and he/she submits the request. Everytime someone goes up or down, the patient's reaction to the dosage is checked about a week later by the dosing nurse. Above 120 mg, to increase dose, you have to have a medical consult. Then a plan is made, after if you need more, another consult. I consider being able to go up easily, progress. In the older days, which you may remember, it was considered BAD to be on a higher dose, and so some people weren't getting therpeutic doses, so they kept using. And the clinic would wonder why.
and #3, yes, the financial reality of a moneymaking clinic is a bummer. People say to me, "Oh, you say you care so much about us, but, boom, as soon as we don't pay, you detox us off at breakneck speed." I think the administration has learned to be very careful about people's promises...just like most other businesses. You can't go into a department store and say, "I'll take this shirt and bring you the money in a few days." I wish we could dose all needy people for free. But then I wouldn't have a job.
#4 About your lousy counseling experience: is that the way your counseling sessions were when you first started? Maybe your every-other-month counselor didn't think you needed counseling if you'd been at the clinic for a long time, just to  be checked on, just to see if you were still on course. Me, I am trained as a therapist, as well as having drug and alcohol abuse certification, as well as personal experience. The kind of counseling that the every-other-month counselor was giving you seems totally boring to me. I'd rather work at McDonald's. I do therapy with my patients that allow me to, and the more interested they are, the more interesting it is for me, and the more they grow and change. It occurs to me to ask you if you had Wanted more counseling? If you had, would they have given it to you? And, also, some counselors haven't had good training and, duh, they don't know how to do anything but ask that kind of questions.
#5 re pain patients: we have people in pain on our clinic, but we say we do not treat pain, we only treat addiction. They have to go to a pain clinic to get their pain treated. This part is still confusing to me. I'm trying to figure out how, for example, if a person is an addict, but hasn't used in a long time, and methadone really helps him pain, he goes to a pain clinic and told he can't use methadone for pain control because he is an addict...go figure. Maybe that's just around where I work.
(I worked in a half-way house once which had a crack house accross the street!)
Well, if you've got any more comments, I'd be glad to respond!
Lee

[Thomas03]

ya gotta be able to laugh at this stuff from time to time ...

Thomas

[Inmytree]

I am laughing out loud at Thomas's " with or without the Lord" comment.

[sandstorm]

Good morning,
Thomas, I was so happy to read that post this morning about benzos.  I have been off of Xanax for about 15 months now and besides the ultram is was the worst experience I have ever been through.  I can't believe it,  I came on here just to write KimH about her mother so I was so happy to see your post. Sometimes, those withdrawals don't hit until way later and you can really get sick from them.  If you have any questions or doubt what I'm saying go to benzo.org.uk forum like Thomas suggested.  Donor, one of my main w/d symtoms I had was I did not want to leave the house and I didn't want to talk to anyone and that is so not me. I'm thinking of you, because you seem to be going through so much. KimH, please keep any eye on your mother and anyone else using benzos, be careful.  The withdrawals can be awful without help.  I don't mean to scare anyone, but benzos are not to be taken lightly. This is not medical advice by any means, it is just from personal experience.

Good luck to everyone and have a better day!
Take care,
Sandra