getting of low dose of Subutex(Suboxone)

[fasho530]

I'm a 25 male living abroad, I've been battling Opiate addiction since I was 17, although I did have 3 years clean. Last September I relapsed on Heroin and subsequently started taking Subutex( Suboxone) illegally, I have for the most part been taking Subutex( Suboxone) since then, but have had many periods where I use heroin for maybe 1-3 weeks and then go back to Subutex( Suboxone). I am currently taking somewhere between 2-4 mg Subutex( Suboxone) daily and have only 10 free of any other opiates, in order to do this I left the big city and have been staying in the countryside and have been feeling soooo much better, but there is still one big problem. You see in Europe anyone at anytime can purchase a syringe from the local Pharmacy without a prescription and here in Europe Subutex is more commonely given out instead of Suboxone. They are exactley the same thing it's just that Subutex can be injected while as Suboxone is less friendly when it comes to this method of consumation.

So to be short and concise I'm hooked on the needle and I'm having a very hard time weening down from 2 mg to nothing and then going through the first 3 to 5 days without anything.  
I work part time at a restaurant and am usually a student, plus I don't have any friends who use drugs and really understand how it is to go through withdrawal symptoms and I'm going to Sicily with my family on the 4 of august. Any tips on how I can step down from 2 mg Subutex( Suboxone) as smooth as possible and still function somewhat? I have plenty of Ritalin but just read on another page from this forum that the crash is really bad, so now I'm very uncertain about taking Ritalin without Subutex( Suboxone) to take when the Ritalin crashes.  Sorry for writting too much, I just like to get everything out, (it helps)

[atthebeach]

Drink ensure.light diet.toast.soup.drink fruit smoothies.milk shakes

[fasho530]

Well, I would say the aches and pain in the body, specifically in the legs and feet, they become extremely restless. My skin often hurts like hell, it gets very sensitive and just bumping into a chair will hurt my arm like crazy. I sweating I can deal with, I'll use a stauna a lot and that speeds up the whole withdrawal process.
Second I'd say anxiety and insomnia which are a connected problem. Also, nausea and lack of hunger, I can go literally a week without eating during withdrawals and it just makes things worse because I don't get the nourishment I need and of course a lack of energy which is a big problem because I know that I can use yoga and go on walks to help the body pains, with no energy it makes it very hard to use my body for such things.

Ok I wrote a lot, so I hope that was clear enough. I'll check out the vitamin recipe , only problem with that is that I have a very sensitive stomach and have something called gastroreflex disease so sometimes too many heavy vitamins can hurt my stomach but I'll find a solution. Getting off a low dose of suboxone isn't as dreadful as detoxing off several grams of heroin a day. That was torture, I suppose that's why I'm so afraid of going through this, I'm totally freaked out about haivng to endure this, even though it won't be as horrible as the last time. Thanks for the advice man and I'd appreciate anything else you got.

[LeaAnn807]

Ok, first go to the top right of your screen and click on health pages.  Look for Thomas Recipe and Amino Acid Protocol.  You will be amazed at how some of the stuff on there helps!  I couldn't believe it.  (I'm not a vitamin girl!!!)  You should be able to get most of the stuff on there where you are.  

Tell me the symptoms that bother you most........

[fasho530]

It may be a disease when you look at it like that, but then I feel like we would need to diagnose everything in society. People who are overweight don't always look at themselvs as someone with a disease, nor do criminals. When people start talking about chemical inbalances in the brain and all that stuff I see that it makes sense, I'm pro-science all the way. It's just not the way I wanna regard my problem. I look at it as if I have personal issues and my drug abuse is a symptom. I may have a disease, but when life gets hard. I'll blame myself, not my disease.

[fasho530]

Oh yeah I agree with you tramahater. I talk to a therapist but have only started. You're right about the Codiene and you're not the first to tell me that. My doctor has given me some other medications for sleep and some ligth stuff for anxiety and it has only helped prevent my misuse from getting worse. Other than that he could only prescribe me suboxone, and I've said no because I really won't to stop using everything and if I go on it they will put me up to a level which will be even harder to come off, plus it's expensive, unless I go on the state program which is usually for people who are going to be using it for life and one has to go to the pharmacy everyday and receive it for the first 6 months. Things are a bit different over here in Europe, for better and for worse. I think I'll follow your advice Tramahater. Now I'm looking for any natural advice against withdrawal sypmtoms, not heavy medication or anything.

[LeaAnn807]

Hey, I don't think that you necessarily have to go to NA.  There are other things you can do.  Just do SOMETHING!  Sticking yourself with a needle will kill you.  No doubt!  You gotta stop that ok?  And don't be thinking about switching to codeine.  You will be uncomfortable, but you need to taper down to crumbs so that the WDs will be minimal.

In my opinion, you need to speak to a professional about this.  Going and buying and self medicating is NOT the way to end drug addiction!  Agreed?  Talk to a doctor.  I'm sure someone can help you!

[oh_hai]

i too was clean for a long time.  craving and relapse are a part of the process. Na helps as far as being around like-minded people and talking problems out.  but it gave nothing to me.  seeing people cry and talk about a higher power made me want to run out of there and find more dope.  i went for a few months and kept relapsing.  i was constantly reminded of the thing i was powerless too.  i would say it is a disease.  i would say it's a chemical imbalance

the chemical imbalance may be a genetic predisposition or the result of repeat trauma(especially during childhood) which supresses dopamine, serotonin, endogenous opioids, endogenous cannabanoids, sometimes growth hormone, norepinephrine.

this is why ppl with BPD, ADHD, BDD, RDS,  etc usually become anhedonic during normal events/social interactions. since they lack the normal neurotransmission, drug/food abuse puts these chemicals at normal or even supraphysiologic levels.

example: when a person is actively hypoglycemic, there is an inadequate supply of glucose to the brain. typically, there is anxiety, depression, personality changes. Also, hunger takes places as the body perceives the need for more glucose. You eat and glucose increases; you feel normal.

^^^kinda sounds like a withdrawal doesnt it?

[fasho530]

Well most people who are not medically educated can never fully know what these medications do, as far as them not being the same. We'll I understand that Suboxone contains "nalaxone". When I said they were the same I meant in terms of effect and the medications soul purpose. I had 3 full years substance free and I know that it's possible to live substance free, so I can understand your disagreeing with people taking these medications. All I want is to be free of it, but as said before by many it's not easy. I would love to go to NA again because it gave me a lot before. I just had a hard time agreeing with the notion that drug addiction is a disease. Well thanks for responding anyways.

[fasho530]

Hey man thanks for the response. First of all SPELLING CORRECTION. My question is :   "Getting OFF A low dose of Subutex(Suboxone)".
Yes, I understand that IV is no way to go, I gotta switch back to sublingual, I did that way for 3 days last week and then caved in because I was working and couldn't handle the stress, so IV'd it. Once I switch back over to sublingual useage, what should I do to deal with insomnia?( I usually would have the answers but I'm so drained for energy during this process). Would it be wrong to take a low dosage of Codiene after stepping down to 0.2 mg Suboxone?

[oh_hai]

oh sorry

[vicki595]

oh-hai--You need to read the guidelines again...


Fasho- Subutex and Suboxone are NOT the same. That's your first problem that I see. Do some research on these drugs and when you seriously want to stop everything, get in touch with everyone on the forum. You might want to get some help from a doctor or AA/NA as well. Good luck and please don't mess with these drugs until you know what they do!!