how to take first subutex dose

[jayzee_12]

I have searched around and seen thius question asked a bunch but see so many different answers. I guess I am just such a coward of withdrawls that I am worried that I will mess up the first dose and make things worse for myself.

I am a heroin addict and jsut received a prescription from my doctor for subutex to try and detox. I was told that you have to be careful when taking teh first does because if you take it to soon you would go into immediate withdrawals and they are much worse than normal withdrawals.  I waited about 16 hours yesterday and was fairly sick in withdrawals. I felt miserable but I was to scared to take the subutex as I kept thinking what if it makes things worse and then I am stuck like that for days....... Of course being the coward that I am , I went and used heroin instead of taking teh subutex like I was supposed to.  I reall want to stop this and get on the subutex but am horrified of taking at the wrong time. Can anyone please give me any logic/advice on when it is safe to take the first does of subutex??

I was given the 8Mg pills and was given very exact instructions as to what to take daily. I want to start the protocol so badly so if anyone can please tell me when is it safe to take the subutex?

thanks for an help

[Beanie81]

I have been on Subutex 8mg tablets for 2 1/2 years now. The first 6 months I went back and forth between using Oxys and heroin to wanting to use only subutex before I finally got 100% clean. I have numerously started taking my subutex within just a few hours of using other drugs. I would start them just as soon as I started feeling sick again. Sometimes that was 4, 6 or 10 hours later. It never threw me into withdrawals or made me sick at all it made me feel better. My husband would use Heroin then do a subutex a hour later just so he wouldn't get sick at all. However its also something that you will have to answer on your own by just trying it because everyone will tell u something different some based of what they've read and some based off experience but everyone different.  My husband and I both would do 6-7 bags of heroin at a time when we used and sometimes 4-5 times a day. I was able to feel better by doing only 2 mg of subutex 3-4 times a day where my husband has to take 2 *mg tablets first thing in morning another the one 8mg Tablet in the evening daily to not be sick so your gonna be the only person to answer when to take them and how much your going to need. My brother used just as much as we did and he can get through the day ok with only 2mg a day a friend used same as we did and he does 6- 8mg tablets at one time once a day we are all different

[redman1976]

I been sick from not having enough oxy but have had 10/325's trying to wean myself down.  I snorted 5 mg/ half a 10 this morning at eight o'clock and am still feeling sickly so I took like a sixteenth of subutex a minute ago. Will this help or make me sicker?

[redman1976]

I been sick from not having enough oxy but have had 10/325's trying to wean myself down.  I snorted 5 mg/ half a 10 this morning at eight o'clock and am still feeling sickly so I took like a sixteenth of subutex a minute ago. Will this help or make me sicker?

[Bay30]

im tryn to figure out the same thing. took fiirst one yesterday, no script though.  the depression sux.

[Randiland]

Its not suboxone so no "narcon" therefore no or very little withdraws it might crash your high but it won't hurt you...the same does NOT GO FOR SUBOXONE!!!

[worried878]

I was confused by some of the information posted about sub, so being me I had to go back and research it to be sure...LOL..my pain management doctor..who is a good friend as well and I have helped him do studies on RLS, fibromyalgia and on suboxone/subutex therapy..anyway i know he uses subutex when someone comes in who used the night before and then gives them an RX for suboxone to begin the next day...around here they do not like to give subutex as it easier to abuse...he will make them come in the am..stay an hour after he gives the subutex , then in the afternoon they go back and he gives them subutex again, I checked with him this morning to be sure why he uses subutex the first day and he said he does this because the subutex is less likely to throw someone into wds than the suboxone as it lacks the naloxone..my friend was a heavy oxy user and used the night before at 7 pm and he inducted her this way at 7am and she had no wds

also i looked at the sub site and it says that the ceiling effect of sub is somewhere between 16-32 milligrams...and it varies person to person...that is why the max dose of sub is 32 mgs as it would do no good after that amount...it went on to explain that this ceiling effect is why sub will only cover 30-40 mgs of methadone...it didnt make sense to me that doctors prescribe people up to 32 mgs of sub per day if the ceiling effect was 4 mgs..that drug is too expensive for doctors to prescribe doses 8 times the max effect of the drug
sub has helped several people at the clinic at the hospital...we follow them to keep up with the relapse and success rates..Doc wants to publish an article in an MD jounal after 2 years on several random people whom we are following..some are still on sub but 4 have been off for a while...2 have possibly relapsed of that 4 but it is hard to be sure as they stop checking in when they relpase  A special guy came in today/a chronic pain patient who was a 300 mg oxy user and he has been clean and off of sub for 1 year today...he only used as prescribed but it was extremely difficult for him to quit...he came to our doctor for sub therapy as he was extremely physically addicted...he is very proud of himself..a 65 year old professional and he is retiring next month...i was very happy for him!

[refusingbondage]

I can agree.  When I had the appointment to start subs, I took my last handful of percocet around 9:00 pm.  I went to see him at 3 pm the next day - had withdrawal but not too bad, minimal in fact.. Normally, I would WAKE UP in withdrawal.  RLS use to wake me up every morning.  SO strange.. I think part of it was adrenaline - I was so psyched and a little anxious about suboxone.

[Dog55]

My last dosage of hydrocodone (Vicodin) was at 7 p.m. the evening before my doctor's appointment. I was in beginning stages of withdrawals the next morning, as always, but wasn't able to get the sub until about 1 p.m. I took one 8mg tab as he instructed, and almost immediately felt 100 percent better. In fact, it was actually too much, and gave me a "buzz" of sorts. I learned quickly that  2mg daily is plenty. One thing I did notice: Even though my withdrawals that morning before taking the sub were bad, they weren't nearly as bad as I thought they'd be. I believe that was the result of psychosomatics. I knew I was getting help later that morning, so the w/d symptoms were milder. I believe that if I had simply run out of hydros and knew I couldn't find anymore, my w'ds would have been much worse by then. Funny how the body and mind work together like that.

[flmagi]

When you start feeling really bad withdrawals (16 hours for you?), then it's time to take your first dose of Sub.
My doctor started me at 2 mgs, then every hour another 2 mgs until I felt normal..NOT HIGH.  Most people can feel normal on a lower dose than their doctor suggested. 6-10 mgs daily, I think is a good average of what most people can get by on.  So the lower the dose, the sooner you'll feel normal and be able to function. If you take a good mid-range dose to start  (6-10 mgs daily), you should be able to function within hours, with few problems, if any. It's normal to get a slight headache during the first few days, Ibuprofen will take care of it.  If you go over 10 mgs daily and you feel nauseous, extremely tired, and just not right, your dose is probably to high.So try to go with your lowest possibly comfortable dose.
Precipitated withdrawals...yuk......I did start my Sub to early and ended up going into precipitated withdrawals. It took about 10 hours to hit me, and about 10 hours to go away.  But you should be fine at 16 hours into withdrawals. If you're afraid, then wait 20 hours.
Good luck to you and keep posting and let us know how you're doing.

[GA Guy]

The precipitated withdrawals that comes with Sub is a result of the Bupe in the Sub and not the naloxone. The chance of precipitated withdrawals is the same whether you take Suboxone or Subutex.

[worried878]

If you are feeling miserable, then you are in withdrawals and taking the sub will help..following your doctor's instruction is important but everyone is different so keeping him updated is important too as no 2 people will respond the same to any drug.  Ask him if it is ok to take 4 mgs the first dose, then you can wait an hour or so and take the other 4 mgs and that way you will feel safer about it.  I have even known people to take 2 mgs, then an hour take 2 more etc until they get the dose right..after that you will know what you can tolerate and how it will affect you. You may not end up needing 16 mgs a day, and less is better if you are planning on a short term taper off of sub.
Withdrawals can happen if taken too soon if u r a heavy user and heroin is ofcourse much stronger than hydro etc.
back before i quit hydros, i had used sub when i was out of pills and once, I actually took subutex in the am and then got some pills and took some hydros in the pm...hard to feel any effect from hydros after using sub that morning, but it never sent me into wds.  and it was silly now that i look back on it and i definitely DO NOT ever recommend doing this...subutex does not have naloxone in it like suboxone tho..so the risk of throwing you into wds is probably not as high i would guess...altho using after taking it is a waste of time because both stick to your receptors and cover them up so no other narcotic can find a seat to sit in...good luck and be sure you include aftercare

[refusingbondage]

In my experience - it depends on the dosage.  I started high (24mgs) and was pretty sick the first week or two on suboxone.  I had to take a few days off of work in fact.  (dizzy, nausea, sleep, headache).  This went away after my body got use to the medicine.  I think this is the reason getting your dose right is so important.  My doctor did it in his office, giving me one 2mg tablet every half hour. Of course the addict in me didnt stop when I felt 'no more withdrawal' - I didnt feel fine until I felt somewhat high I guess and it was too high a dosage for me.. I never thought I felt "high" on suboxone ever, but in retrospect, looking back I was, and realized that toward the end.  Others have stated they got high on it and I do understand its becomming a street drug.  From what I've read of other's experiences, sub should be taken as little as needed, just to NOT feel sick.  If you take it that way I dont think you will feel sick, or high or anything other than out of withdrawal.  Some have detoxed using 2mg/day and felt fine.  Its very individual and you have to take what your body needs but no more.  So be honest with yourself when you begin the subs - use it as a recovery *tool*.  

[jayzee_12]

yeah if I do some at 2pm I am already sick by around midnight. At by 6am , I am really full blown miserable. I have used today at around 11am, so I am going to try and hold out till around 11am tomorrow. I will definitely be in withdrawals long before that but I will try to hold off until at least tomorrow 6-8am.

One other question. Since I will be gong to work on the subutex.. I am a systems engineer and have to be very alert and think clearly. What is the side effects of the subutex? I thought I understood that it does not give you an hogh feeling at all but jsut keeps the withdrawals away. Is that accurate or is there any other kind of drowsiness or some other effect?

Thanks very much for the posts here as it is good to talk to others that understand. My drug addiction has always left me feeling a kind of emptiness and aloneness that just does not compare with anything else. Anyway, nice to  know that there is other people out there that care and have been there...

thans

[liscamdave]

My drs used to tell me the longer you wait, the better you will feel once you start the sub. And he is right. He told me to wait between 24-36hrs. Most will tell you that or around 24hrs. Usually a day is enough. All depends on the addicts usage. With heroin, I am sure you are in withdrawl by the end of the day if you take it in the morning, right? I would try to stick it out as long as you can, because when you start the sub, you will feel normal again, or what you remember to be normal. Good luck..

[refusingbondage]

Good idea. I think 16 hours is enough, especially if the doctor said 16 hours should do.  Best of luck.

[jayzee_12]

thanks so much for the response. The dr said the 16-24 hours should be enough time. I have jsut read all of these posts about the precipitated withdrawal that makes me absolutely horrified. I have been through withdrawals many times, as most people have, but the thought of worse withdrawals that can last longer is very intimidating.

He told me to start with taking 2 8MG pills the first day but I have had a cople people say that maybe I should just try one and then wait 2 hours, if it is not enough then take another. So , I guess I will try to do another 16 hours wait which usually makes me very ill  and try t take the first subutex.

[refusingbondage]

You will probably get a lot of different answers to this question.  First, what did you doctor say re a timeframe as to when to take the subutex?  You should really give him a call and ask.  I personally think 16-24 hours is enough time.   If you were feeling moderately sick after 16 hours, I think you were good to go.  I would wait at least 16 hours though to avoid any issues.  I think H leaves your system quicker than narcotic pain pills - I waited about 16 hours after my last dose of pills and was fine taking it.  I also suggest taking one tablet and waiting half hour to see how you feel.  Its kind of a personal thing and 8mg might be just enough for you.  Dont assume you need 16mg or 24mg.  If you still feel withdrawal after 8mgs, then take some more until your more comfortable.  Generally with sub, a little goes a long way so take as little as you need and not more.   Good luck.