just sitting here holding out til my next dose of tramadol

[pinkgirl73]

well I don't really have a question...it just helps me to write...lol.  I took my last 3.5 trams this morning at 9 am.  before that I hadn't had any in 17.5 hrs which was an accident cuz I had a few glasses of wine and went to sleep and woke up with withdrawals....ugh the restless legs and skin crawling is the worst.  anyway i'm startin to feel the withdrawals again cuz its been like 12 hrs now.  just laying here watching "don't be tardy" on bravo..lol. so i'm  just gonna wait as long as I can standit I guess.  what a long process this is.idont know if I need to start feeling uncomfortable before I take them but i'm thinkin it helps me go longer after a few days.  I don't know.

[Ejm7263]

The most dangerous thing is your drinking. I've been a nurse for 33 years & 13 in a very large busy ER. Very few people have seizures but the drinking with it can cause seizures & it can cause you to stop breathing. People die everyday on the same dose they have been on for years & it usually involved alcohol. Please, please quit torturing yourself.
Hang with us & make it. You can do it but you need to get into recovery with at least as much energy as you use & obsess over using. We've all done it but you can stop any time you really want. And if you don't want to yet keep coming back until you do. Praying for you.

[pinkgirl73]

ok

[bama88]

Let me try this again

[pinkgirl73]

bama..i looked but there's nothing in my inbox:(

[bama88]

Check your inbox....I just wrote u

[pinkgirl73]

God I hate how naïve I sounded when I wrote this post at first.  what was I thinking?  that's why I wrote the new one.  this one was the old me.  yes I definitely need to go to a meeting or do an online meeting or go to a drug counselor or sumthing...asap...cuz I am pretty much at a loss for what I do now aside from stay in my room, freak out and cry.  so my next step is to change the way i'm taking this tramadol by spreading it out starting tomoro morning and after that isk what to do next.  during this whole thing my head is screwed up cuz I am detoxing sort of from my trams and also I am still dealing with all the usual bs in my life that I usually use drugs to cope with.  I feel like i'm standing at a fork in the road...but i'm just standing still cuz idk which way to go.

[bama88]

I've read  the entire post and please understand we are not picking on you at all.....we are giving you some tough love because we know what it's like to try to taper and fail......99.9% of us tried to work a taper and instead the taper worked us....

Whenever your coming off Any opiate and tramedol is one of them in the way it works,  emotions ride high.....detoxing or tapering makes a person think weird.  
And we want what you want.  Even of it doesn't seem this way.  When I first joined everyone kicked my butt on here cause everyone could see what I couldn't see at the time.

I think your being very very open and as honest as you can with much sensarity.  And that's not seen a lot.  

Is it possible for you to go to a meeting while detoxing that way you can build a support group while your tapering?

[Ejm7263]

I know you do. Keep on this site. Stop however you can stop & listen to these wonderful people so willing to help us. I'm on day 3 clean after 7 years of every Rx out there. We're doing it together.

[Ejm7263]

II have to chime in. I tried every Rx drug & a few that aren't legal. My experience is stop it all, especially the alcohol. After nursing 33 years I've seen more accidental deaths from pills & alcohol than anything else. Also it's all bad for you. I've made a decision to stop everything & be clean & healthy. I have done everything wrong many times & I'm just giving you my experience. I tapered first but deliberately & quickly. I'm going to feel lousy anyway, so quicker off, quicker to it being over. I'm looking forward to not feeling the way I feel right now & I'm blessed to know, because of everyone hear willingness to share experience, strength & hope. Get up, get out, go to a meeting.
Praying for you!!!

[atthebeach]

Hi Hun. Yes what you are saying makes perfect sense. The veil is lifting.
You are coming to terms and admitting you have a problem.
That is wonderful.
Support groups, Therapist will give you the tools, help you to understand,
What your triggers are, your thought processes, help you get to why you want to use, teach you to live life on its terms.
I am so happy for you that you had a revelation.
That is a good thing.

[pinkgirl73]

I will definitely try the spreading it out thing. Regarding the trams... I don't "feel" any reward from taking them...that's why I didn't understand what anyone meant.  I haven't felt anything from taking them since 2008.  that isn't to say that u guys aren't right tho.  I understand now what everyone is saying about the difference between not taking drugs and living an actual lifestyle of recovery.  I tried to tell myself that I was different....that I didn't need to be "one of those ppl" who NEED a PROGRAM for the rest of their life.  But I understand that when u take an opiate and become addicted...it changes ur brain forever.  I always told my kids that the key to not being a druggie is to NEVER TOUCH A DRUG even for the first time...then ur brain will never know what its missing.  I realized for the first time last night that this addiction will stop at nothing...until i'm dead.  It whispers lies to me about the percs and the wine.  It says that its no big deal if I only do it 1 week a month or whatever.  It says I have back pain so just do it, it says I have a teleranvce so I wont die, it says my liver is probably fine, it says I should just do it one more time.  it says a lot of things.  But I literally somehow changed the way I think about it last night.  It just dawned on me suddenly that this addiction wants me to do the percs/booze even if it kills me.  It doesn't care...its not looking out for my best interest...its like a hit man.  I feel like my brain is trying to kill my body.  So how do u fight ur brain???  that's what I don't know how to do.  I don't know how to separate what I want to do from what my addiction wants me to do.  Last night I realized its like an enemy that wants to destroy me and everything in my life.  I would NEVER want to hurt myself and my family, I would NEVER want to die and break my kids heart to pieces.  I would NEVER want to miss out on my kids growing up and having grandkids and enjoying every beautiful thing that like has to offer...but my addiction doesn't gice a **** about those things.  It just wants to get that high feeling again.  It will stop at nothing.  I realized that last night.  I realized me and my addiction are to different entities and I realized that I have no frickin clue how in the hell to manage it.  I just figured one day I would smarten up and start giving a ****.  I was waiting for the big moment when I would be "strong" enuf.  When I would "hit bottom."  but my bottom is death.I KNOW that now.  I don't have a bottom. And death will be too late.  Even if I don't OD...I cant pretend that years of taking percs and booze every night isn't affecting my liver.   I have a very bizarre routine that I do with the pills/booze.  Its a ritual...and its gonna get me in trouble somehow one of these days...whether its me going to jail for drunk driving, me getting caught "borrowing other ppls pills then paying them back with mine, me misleading my doctor if he gives me a blood test and finds out I either have too little percs in my system or too many, or whether its that I OD or die later from liver disease...it is gonna end badly.  There are no gorgeous, healthy happy elderly drug addicts that are still doing their doc.  It doesn't happen.  u either quit or u die.  they r the options.  I just don't know how to do anything about it.  I thought white knuckling, which I have done in the past...was being sober.  I didn't wanna be "one of those ppl" who needs a program.  But now things are starting to make me understand.  Its like a veil is slowly lifting.  Its like I had blinders on and now I see a little bit and i'm straining my eyes to see more thru the fog.I cant see clearly yet but at least I can see something.  I don't know if I am even making any sense.  Its all because of this sight that I am seeing a tiny bit.  Its because of ppl like u guys who called me out about it.  I just have literally no clue what I'm doing.  I know a lot about meds and addiction...but I have NO CLUE about how to recover or what recovery even is.  NO CLUE.  That's why I'm here.  Cuz I need u guys' help.

[GoodKat]

Honey, Vicky is being tough on you because she cares. She cares about you, and she cares about her own recovery as well. Hopefully, the reason we come here is to help others to get clean because that's how the program AA/NA works.

I started with alcohol, drinking with my alcoholic/pill addict mom. She died from liver disease because of it when I was only 31, with 2 tiny grandchildren she could have enjoyed. In the 1940's, Mom was put into a sanitarium (that's where they went!) for drinking. The treatment was to give the patient Miltown pills. They are not available anymore, but it's a benzo. She then became addicted to those. Long story but some of what you say sounds like I'm hearing my Mom. I was her biggest baby @ 5lbs. Because my dad was dying from cancer and the nurses got her to eat more, but she would brag that while she was pregnant with me she "ONLY took 11 Miltowns a day."

When her supplier sold his pharmacy, she doctor shopped, but no such luck, they told her she was an addict, they ordered anti-depressants that are also for anxiety, but they didn't get her "high". She went back to her original drug of choice, alcohol. Both of which are drugs, both depressants. Substitution of one drug for another is actually not making progress at all, and the likely outcome is you'll end up doing them both, or abusing one...we in the program call it "white knuckling" or, even if you do succeed in stopping everything, without aftercare, a program, treatment, you'll be what we call "dry" not "sober". There is very little hope of maintaining staying clean under these circumstances.

I applaud your effort, but thinking about the drug, every minute, waiting for that dose (even if it's less then before) is what we call "romanticism" for the drug. By depriving yourself, then rewarding yourself, whether you want to believe me or not, is really pulling you deeper and deeper into your addiction. I'm so sorry sweetheart, I can see you've been trying. I've been reading your posts and others advice, but today I could hold back no longer.

You need in-patient treatment, with medical personnel and a program to work when you are successfully clean and sober, but it has to start with you, and the first step. You are powerless over your addiction and you can't control it! The truth hurts because you can't imagine life without some type of mood altering drug. I'm glad you're here, but we have 1 mouth and 2 ears for a reason. Sometimes it's much more important for you to listen then talk. All my best; I'll be thinking about you! ❤️Kathy

[vicki595]

No problem! Why don't you take one tablet every 4 hours?  That would be six every 24 hours and you'd even be dropping a tablet!   I don't believe you would have any appreciable wd's. Maybe a symptom here and there but remember: There is no easy, painless way around this. You need to go through it and tapering is pretty kind and gentle to your body so you'll be okay.

The other thing is distraction. Occupy your mind AND body. Get cleaned up, do some chores around the house, make stuff with the kids and take them outdoors walking...little, active things. You'd be surprised how the time passes. It's all about a mindset and you should feel just fine with a constant blood level of the drug.  Please try it today because taking those 31/2 pills at once is just wrong. I can't believe you don't feel that and if you DO then that's what's wrong about the way you've been doing this. Spread them out...okay? Please?   (I'm begging lol). And then you should talk about the "eliminating wine and Percocet" problem...xo

[pinkgirl73]

also...clean-in-ks...I am taking 50 mg pills.  I see what u all are saying about the spiking doses...I just took it wrong the way it was said.  I see now why u r saying itsnot a taper from a pharmacological stand point.  I will definitely try to spread it out.  I just don't know how.  I take 3.5 pills at around 9 am now and 3.5 at around 9 pm...and it feels pretty comfortable...but I see what ur saying about what is the best way to come off as opposed to just coming off them in general.  I'm scared if I spread them out that I'll feel worse and that it will be harder.  Like will I have withdrawals again then and will I have psych symptoms?  I just wanna do this the best way I can.  

[pinkgirl73]

omg u guys!  u r all so right!!!  I am just so screwed up and so defensive.  I see exactly what Vicki was trying to say now about my taper not being a taper and me not succeeding with what i'm doing.  I totally get what u guys are saying now...I just took it wrong at first.  please forgive me...I am just having a time of it trying to figure this stuff out.  Also...I didn't realize about my tolerance to the percs, going down as I come of the tramadol and how dangerous that can be.  That is REALLY important to know and I appreciate that insight...believe me.  I am so sorry for taking what u said the wrong way Vicki....I appreciate what everyone on here is saying.

[Sweetness91]

I have to say I agree with CIK. I think everyone is just worried about you. We all express our thoughts and feelings differently, some come off sweet n nice, and others just say what they're thinking and don't sugarcoat anything. But at the end of the day, they all mean well and want to see YOU well! :)

Something I will never forget hearing here is "take what you need, and leave the rest". I wish you well and am also rootin' for ya!!

[clean_in_ks]

It's great that you found MH....and it's great that you have reduced your daily tramadol intake.  It's also great that you aren't doing the booze/perc combo every night now but it may be even more dangerous to do that once a month or so as it creates that same "spike" affect you are addictively seeking and can be uber dangerous!  It's also great that you are making progress in your realization and thinking about your addictions.  The new realizations are what it's gonna take to get clean of all mind altering substances.  And then following thru and getting some help of some kind:  therapy, meetings, etc.  We have to get to the CAUSE of our desires to numb over.  And we can't do it alone.  We all need people to talk to.

One question I have had all along, that I think has been misunderstood, is what mg strength the tramadol is that you have purchased online and are taking?  The approved maximum dose is 400 mg/day....and that's what your dr originally prescribed right?  So, I assumed (maybe incorrectly) that you are taking 100 mg pills....not 50 mg?  This makes a huge difference in and of itself.
If you have yourself down to 7 pills/day....is that 700 mg or 350 mg???

Obviously you have put yourself on your own taper plan and for some reason have convinced yourself that taking a lot of pills at one time is better than spreading them out into even doses throughout a 24 hr day.  A true taper keeps blood levels EVEN during the day...and it lessens w/drawal feelings.  Your brain doesn't get a huge surge....then nothing for 12 hrs...and then another surge.  The anxiety and depression, while a huge part of getting off any opiate, would also be less severe if your brain wasn't getting a blast and then nothing.
The term "spiking" means to flood your brain/body with a high dose versus spreading the drug dose evenly every so many hrs.  Addicts spike there doses.....for the feeling.  I did it too.  That isn't really what a taper IS....because we are still taking more pills than necessary or safe at one time.
Yes it's GREAT that you have reduced the number of pills per day....but how about spreading those 7 pills out?

I hope you will consider ALL the feedback you get w/o getting defensive.  No one is attacking you or being negative.  Just trying to help and offer new ways of looking at all of this.
When you posted what you did on Craig's thread.....it threw up danger flags for all of us.  The deadly combo of alcohol/oxycodone is a concern because WE CARE ABOUT YOU!!!  If you were doing that nightly, and now have cut back to monthly, plus you have majorly reduced your Tramadol intake.....you could overdose NOW where you might not have before.  Your neurotransmitters are changing in your brain with each positive reduction you make.  We just don't want to lose you, ok?

Please re-think the details of your taper plan.....and please keep posting.  We are all rootin for you~

[vicki595]

Okay. That sounds good!  Your coming here was a positive thing not a negative. I'm just trying to figure it all out, along with everyone else, so I can help.   I don't feel like I'm being negative toward you but if that's how YOU feel I can accept that.  I want what you want, Sweetie, and I can see some flags that I needed to mention because they're scary.

Where is your support? Have you reached out to anyone? Husband?  Sitting in a room all day with only MH is sliding to a dark place so what can you do to change that?  If you read the thread that Gnarly asked us to comment on, you'll see a common theme. None of us have done "this" alone. Not one of us!

Believe me, I'm not picking on you in the way you think. I want to help. Are you planning to go to an NA or AA meeting? It will really help and give you some face to face support.  I understand about trying to figure out a plan of action, as well, and in spite of the way you've chosen to do things you HAVE decreased your Tramadol dose and nothing can diminish that! I know you're trying...now to get you out of the house!

[pinkgirl73]

as afra s spinking my tram doses...I am taking less.  way less and less often so I don't understand what u mean by spinking.  I have to get off these trams and want to.  I am doing it the best way I can.  many, many ppl have helped me with this.  You are not the only one with an opinion.  I have followed several ppls advice about it...some even gave me advice on tapers that they got from a doctor.  as long as I get off and stay off...what difference does it make.  This morning I realized that I need to do something about the perc problem now...instead of wait til my tram taper is over.  I mean an addiction is an addiction so there is really no reason to wait to stop.  I am learning a lot here about myself, about others and about this disease.  I don't think ppl should be discouraging anyone from being on here.  I am not sitting around getting high while other ppl arebtrying to recover.  I am trying to figure out how to recover and how to make it last.  The comment on the post I made was to warn that guy of what his wknd warrior parties can turn into.  I realized today that I was missing the whole point of sobriety by taking percs and wine once a month while i'm trying to get off something else...that plan was ridiculous and realized that this morning after being on this sight pretty much 24/7 all week.  That is why I went to the Smart Recovery site and joined today as well as the Celebrate Recovery site and NA.   I am trying but I have no support here at my house...I sit in my room and read medhelp all day trying to figure it out.  That's the best I can do right now cuz that's all I KNOW HOW to do so far.

[pinkgirl73]

Vicki I don't understand why u are constantly being negative towards me....obvi if I do less tram less often and less dosage that is a taper.  and also thru being on here I am really starting to get real with myself about the perc wine thing and joined the group Smart Recovery so that I can have some sort of plan to try do stop making the same mistakes over and over.  I just don't see why u feel like u need to keep bashing me and judging me.  Every time I read a post from u its so discouraging.  I just don't understand why.  I mean I realize I have a problem.  several, in fact.  THATS what i'm doing on this sight, thank you very much.  I am trying to figure it all out just like everyone else had to one time or another and I JUST STARTED.  everyone has to start somewhere.  Every time I read ur posts they seem judgemental.  I mean I'm starting to think coming here was a mistake.  I try to help ppl with anything I can and I am looking for help and advice, not for someone to question my motives and make me feel bad.  I don't need to feel bad...I already feel bad enough. that's why I'm trying to get help.  I REALIZE i'm an addict and slowly killing my liver even if I only do it once a month.  I REALIZE.  So i'm not really sure what you would like me to do.

[vicki595]

I've read the same about the every month Percocet and wine party for one...so it begs the question pinkgirl: What are you doing here and what is the forum doing for you?

That behaviour is everything we are not about. Your current Tramadol taper is so atypical and will never work because the way I see it you're  spiking your doses twice per day and plan to continue into the future calling it a taper because you take 3 pills at once instead of 5.  That's not a taper. It's just taking less right now.  I can't accept your behaviour as "okay" when it's not. I don't even see the point. All I see is that you're high while everyone else is fighting against the current of the wave you're riding.

You can receive so much support here and I think you want to be sober but you need to change a few things beginning with living a sober lifestyle.  We can help you, I know we can, but not this way.  You need to get your head straight so your actions can follow and you're just not there at all right now.

It's time to do some thinking.

[lulu747]

Hi There-

I have been following your story but have yet to chime in.  I know how hard Tramadol is to come off of- my best friend has been on them for a decade.  They were prescribed to her after a car accident as a non-addictive pain medication.  She started her taper taking 10 a day.  Then went down to 8.  She didn't sleep for a week and had terrible RLS and her psoriasis broke out something fierce.  Her doctor won't help her taper as the doctor doesn't believe they are addictive!!!!  Don't even get me started on this.  I told her to go slower so now she drops a pill once a month.  It's a marathon, not a sprint, and as Vicki said- go slow.

What really concerns me is that I read on another thread that you are drinking up to two bottles of wine a night plus taking percocet.  Is that true or am I mistaken?
I probably don't have to tell you how dangerous this all is.

Listen, you don't know me but I feel I would be remiss if I did not tell you that your real issue here does not lie in how many pills you take.  It lies in why you are putting all these mind altering substances in your body.  Until you do some recovery work to find out what hole it is you are trying to fill, you are always going to be suffering through one kind of detox merry-go-round or another.  Or you are going to end up dead.  Sorry to be so blunt, but it is the cold hard truth.  Just ask any of us addicts on here how many times we have been close to death, or had a close friend or family member die from such behaviour.  It is the greatest tragedy there is.  Addiction does not have to be a death sentence, but it will be unless you arrest it and begin living a life of recovery.
I would HIGHLY recommend you getting some proper counseling or therapy for your anxiety and depression issues if you aren't already.
Did you know that alcohol is a HUGE depressant?  
Reading your posts honestly scares the sh*T out of me.
You are self-medicating.
I did this for years. I have terrible chronic autoimmune illnesses and when I turned 28 my body fell a part.  I couldn't deal with it and I took any and all drugs that were prescribed to me by doctors.  I never abused these medications until I married a man who started abusing me verbally and sexually.  I am lucky I didn't kill myself.  I overdosed twice accidentally.
It NEVER ends well unless you put a stop to it.  It isn't something you can control, and it isn't something you can do alone.  You need and deserve support honey.
Self-loathing and abuse is a terrible thing.

Every time I do something, ANYTHING in life, I ask myself "Am I doing this out of love, or am I doing it out of fear?"
Making changes are scary.  But if you act out of love for yourself- true unconditional self love, then the scariest changes become the things that lead us to our greatest evolution and true happiness.
You deserve to be happy lovely.  Truly happy and whole.
I really hope you give yourself the chance to be.
Sending support.....
Lu

[pinkgirl73]

thank you so much merri!  well I have been on 3.5 every 12 to 13 hrs now for about 4 days.  It hasn't been difficult at all except for the first week when I went from 14 a day to 8 a day.  That's when I had the withdrawals and restless legs, sweating, etc.  I think in maybe another week or 2 I will drop another .5 pill at my night time dose.  someone on some of my other posts said to drop the night timedose first, some said to wait 3 weeks and drop the dose...I am just doing what feels right to me.  I have terrible anxiety and mild depression history so that's why i'm trying to be very careful.  I can deal with the physical symptoms....its the psych symptoms that i'm scared of so I don't wanna go too fast.  I have enoughpills to do a really slow taper lasting several months but I want to get off these as fast as I can without screwing my head up.  When I dropped from 14 to 8 I felt fine after the first week and then 4 weeks later the phychological withdrawals caught up to me.  So I just try to really pay attn. to how I feel.  It took me 10 years to get to this point so I know I have to take my time and be careful.  Thanks so much for ur encouragement and support!!

[Merri123]

I know from experience that drinking alcohol will make the restless legs worse at times. There are times I can have a glass of wine and I would be fine and others - yikes it started immediately.

So during your taper I would stay away from wine etc so that you don't make any wds worse.

You are doing good. I did a slow taper too. Would add an hour between and then started lowering till I was done. At the end I was cutting them in 1/2 then in 1/4s. Many don't believe in tapering but I had to do that.

So you just dropped on pill. When are you thinking of doing the next drop? Keep it up. Don't get discouraged. You're doing good!!!