lortab

[Jim]

I've been taking lortab 7.5 for about 3 months. About 8-10 per day. I think I'm going to have to go cold turkey to stop. Will my symptoms be really bad and how long will they last. I'm hoping not too long since i've been taking for so short a time.
Thanks!

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

My own craving for the Buzz has never left me.  There have been times when I thought that I was "over all of that" but time and again I've relapsed.  Though I don't actively seek narcotics anymore, when they are in my face, I will eventually pop a few.  Don't feel lonely out there, Dange!  Most of us have the same problems that you have described.  The ways of dealing with these problems are varied and many and hopefully we can all help eachother on this forum.  J.B.

[PS >>>>Annie]

Oh by the way.......I hope my post didn't seem to harsh.  I was trying the fearful approach.....lol.....Keep up the good work, you seem to be doing a great job.  You may never loose that desire to get high.  Find something to do...that you have a passion for.  Maybe the void will be filled.  Good luck.

Annie

[PS >>>>Annie]

........I may not be the best one to respond to your post, but here is my best shot.  First of all I am a chronic pain sufferer, and had a hard time getting narcotic pain meds to treat my pain for over 8 years.  Recently my doctors have been prescribing because of surgery and other issues.  I had received severe injuries from an accident.  Let me just say this...if you ever really need potent pain relief (God have mercy on you), and your doctor gives you something mild, the medication won't work because of a tolerance you have built up.  This just happend to me after my surgery. "Well I'll just take more of them," you say.  Well then, think of the damage the Tylenol can do to your liver, or think of the limited amount you may have (like me) after a major surgery. Scary, isn't it?? Also (another ex.), the anesthetic kept wearing off in the dentist chair, while he was working on me.  OUCH!!!!  Keep in mind that I wasn't given anything for 8 years, because Doctors were very reluctant or against prescribing due to the very behavior you are speaking of.  This tolerance built up rather quickly.  

I thought of many issues when responding to your post, but this just jumped out of my mind.....lol  Think really hard about the people who have legitimate needs, and suffer because of behavior like this.  If not, then think of yourself.  The latter would be wise.  If fear doesn't deter you, than I don't know what else to say.  You will get some other responses that are very good, i'm sure.  Keep coming to this forum.

Annie

[Dangel47]

Hello to all. I am newcomer to this site and it is such a relief to find that there are people like me out there.  I was just browsing the web and found this site. I have always loved lortabs, painkillers, nerve meds, alcohol,etc. I knew it was wrong to do so but I could not shake the (want to or have to have it) feeling. No matter how hard I tried I stole pills from peoples cabinets, including my mothers pills. I slipped around and hid wine coolers in my closet for those times when I could not find meds. I called the doctor for cough syrup when I had no cough,ha. Who was I kidding? No-one but myself. I have ocd pretty bad and decided to go to the doctor for help. I told her the truth about everything. She said I had ocd and needed to be on medicine to help with those unwanted feelings of anxiety, compulsions, obcessive behaviors,etc...... I am now on buspar and celexa which seems to be helping tremendously. I still desire to get high even though I have not had any booze since last year. I still want to get high but try to refuse finding ways to get them. However, sometime I do give in and if I see a lortab or my dentist prescribes a pain med for root canals, etc..... I shout halleluiah all the way to the drug store. I have never taken over three or four lortabs at once cause I was scared to and I did not like the withdrawels. My question is (does that feeling ever go away of wanting that buzz or that high?) Its so hard to resist when they're sitting there in front of your face. I heard out of sight, out of mind.......Thats true to a certain extint. But the minute I hear of someone having pain meds in the closet I try to find a way of getting a few out of the cabinet............Help me if you can............I hope I can find this site again............

[Patrice]

Gina PLEASE E mail me, I need to talk to you

Take care

Patrice

[Patrice]

Hi Tom,

So you may feel more comfotable, will you feel better corasponding with me via E mail?  I want to be there for you, and E mail is better for me, because there is a chance I will forget to come by this site a day or two.  My addy is ***@****.  Please feel free to write me whenever you want.  Please Tom dont stop going to meetings because you are on drugs.  Anybody that puts you down in either program was never a friend to begin with!!!!!!  I learned that the hard way.  And hon, be careful with the xanax detox!!!!  That can be very dangerous.  The darvon will be roug, but just flu-like symtoms, the xanax withdrawls can cause seizers.  BE CAREFUL, PLEASE!!!!!  I want to help so bad.  Remember in both programs the most important person is the newcomer, and if you went to a meeting with me, and someone gave you **** because of it, I would be on them like you wouldnt believe!!!!!  I may be a newcomer, but I NEED to be at meetings, just to keep from going crazy.  Did I tell you that I fessed up to my group to being on methadone?  Well some people jugded me and I dont care.  I am there to save my life, not to please people.  Whatever program you go to, you find one that you feel totally at ease with, ok?  Sorry if I sound like I am preaching, but I want you to make it!!!!  If you fall, just brush yourself off and pick up where you left off.  Remember Tom, relapse  happens and the only crime is to stop comming back.  I really wish you would come to Fresno for that conferance, you and your wife could sit by my hubby Mike and me, and we can stand up proudly EVEN IF WE HAVE NO CLEAN TIME!!!!  We are addicts and we stick together.NO MATTER WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Like I said Tom, if you feel better talking in private, e mail me at any time.  I will look for your post tomorrow.

Love, your sister in recovery

Patrice

[tom to TO TOM]

is that a legitimate question or a statement in the form of a question?
I have a wife if 17 years. She is not an addict, but understands my condition and supports my decision to taper.

Why do I sense I put-down coming?

[To TOM]

....Do you have family??

[tom to Patrice [Phil please delete the "]

sorry not getting the CP thing. Yes, I have three bulging disks in my lower spine which press to varying degrees on my spinal cord. I can go from morphine-level agony to enteric aspirin-level pain. The last couple of months have been good to me and I can actually handle the discomfort with 1000mg enteric aspirin 3 times a day. Compared to most of the CP's I know, I'm relatively pain free, which makes cleaning up my opiate addiction that much more do-able.

I talked to someone at UCLA and all they'll do is put me in a double-blind study where I have a fifty percent chance of getting a sugar pill. Forget it. I want real treatment, not experiments.

While bup looks like it will get here sometime this year, I'm tired of waiting, asking, begging, getting hung up on, and therefore have designed a 13-day taper program for my combo Darvon/Xanax habit which I honestly think I can do. Than I will be AA material. I'm looking forward to going to some meetings, but not while I'm full of drugs. I've also lost contact with the people I knew and have to establish some new relationships and regular meetings. And, yes, I will include some NA meetings as well. I'm sure there are some wonderful NA meetings and I hope to find some of them.

You see, I'm in the rather lucky position of having severance pay from the job I blew (see other posts, etc), and my new job doesn't start, potentially, until the 1st of the month. This gives me a 2 week therapeutic window with all the bills paid, free time from wakeup to bedtime, plus I happen to live in beautiful hill country overlooking the Pacific ocean way down here in South Orange County - perfect for walking and hiking.

Like the "coward" said [he won't give himself a handle - go figure] I have the knowledge and the opportunity to begin my detox and recovery while free of the usual 9 to 5 obligations most of us are always dealing with. I'm so good at dispensing the advice -- now let's see if I can take my own direction and really clean up my act. This is, quite literally, the moment of truth for me, and I have only to put up or shut up. I promised "coward" I wouldn't post anymore on this forum until I had chose and followed through on a treatment option. So that's exactly what I'm doing: Tomorrow, I refill exactly the amount of Darvon and Xanax I need for the 13-day taper, no more, no less. It's now or never. I'm excited, yet there is a tom hunching down in a dark corner of my mind scared to death. But I'm going to do it anyway.

I will keep the forum informed, no bullshit -- if I revert to a higher dosage than my taper schedule calls for, I'll "fess up" and you can all fall upon me like a pack of wolves. Whatever it takes.

Wish me luck. Go with god, Patrice, I'm a long-time student of all the world's religions and so don't have one particular frame of reference or another, but they all have wisdom to give and strength to draw from.

Take care.
tom

[aaaargh what a typo -- no tim , it's "t]

great way to start my program by not bothering to proof my own message.

[Patrice]

Hi Tom

What I meant by CP was chronic pain.  That is a big reason for all my relapses, vicodin triggers me to use heroin.  I thought you have chronic pain too, maybe I was wrong, but I dont think so, corrct me if I am wrong ok?  As for the bup treatment, hon, I know for sure they are doing it in Santa Cruz My friend Scott just did it, and Southern Ca.  I think you call UCLA, and of course Clovis.  I would just feel better if you did it medically,  bup isnt even been approved for opiate addiction yet.  PLEASE BE CAREFUL!!!!!  Keep me posted ok?  I care

Your sister in recovery

Patrice

[Patrice]

Hey girlfriend

I am glad you asked for the increase.  Just remeber methadone doesnt get you loaded, or at least it doesnt get me loaded.  You are supposed to feel normal, thats what its all about.  Take it one day at a tie, and ask if you need to go up.  In fact when the weather gets hot, and we sweat a lot we sometimes need a higher dose, dont be ashamed!!!!!!  DO what is right for you.  This is your LIFE.

Love Ya

Patrice

[Tim to Patrice]

sorry not getting the CP thing. Yes, I have three bulging disks in my lower spine which press to varying degrees on my spinal cord. I can go from morphine-level agony to enteric aspirin-level pain. The last couple of months have been good to me and I can actually handle the discomfort with 1000mg enteric aspirin 3 times a day. Compared to most of the CP's I know, I'm relatively pain free, which makes cleaning up my opiate addiction that much more do-able.

I talked to someone at UCLA and all they'll do is put me in a double-blind study where I have a fifty percent chance of getting a sugar pill. Forget it. I want real treatment, not experiments.

While bup looks like it will get here sometime this year, I'm tired of waiting, asking, begging, getting hung up on, and therefore have designed a 13-day taper program for my combo Darvon/Xanax habit which I honestly think I can do. Than I will be AA material. I'm looking forward to going to some meetings, but not while I'm full of drugs. I've also lost contact with the people I knew and have to establish some new relationships and regular meetings. And, yes, I will include some NA meetings as well. I'm sure there are some wonderful NA meetings and I hope to find some of them.

You see, I'm in the rather lucky position of having severance pay from the job I blew (see other posts, etc), and my new job doesn't start, potentially, until the 1st of the month. This gives me a 2 week therapeutic window with all the bills paid, free time from wakeup to bedtime, plus I happen to live in beautiful hill country overlooking the Pacific ocean way down here in South Orange County - perfect for walking and hiking.

Like the "coward" said [he won't give himself a handle - go figure] I have the knowledge and the opportunity to begin my detox and recovery while free of the usual 9 to 5 obligations most of us are always dealing with. I'm so good at dispensing the advice -- now let's see if I can take my own direction and really clean up my act. This is, quite literally, the moment of truth for me, and I have only to put up or shut up. I promised "coward" I wouldn't post anymore on this forum until I had chose and followed through on a treatment option. So that's exactly what I'm doing: Tomorrow, I refill exactly the amount of Darvon and Xanax I need for the 13-day taper, no more, no less. It's now or never. I'm excited, yet there is a tom hunching down in a dark corner of my mind scared to death. But I'm going to do it anyway.

I will keep the forum informed, no bullshit -- if I revert to a higher dosage than my taper schedule calls for, I'll "fess up" and you can all fall upon me like a pack of wolves. Whatever it takes.

Wish me luck. Go with god, Patrice, I'm a long-time student of all the world's religions and so don't have one particular frame of reference or another, but they all have wisdom to give and strength to draw from.

Take care.
tom

[tom to Patrice]

I'm not sure what 'CP' means, so I'm not sure what to do with that statement. You are correct: I'm planning on doing the bup without medical supervision simply because there isn't any offered here by anyone outside of an in-house commitment place.

There's a big buprenorphine training coming up for California docs to use bup.

check it out:

http://www.csam-asam.org/

Someone offered to get the bup detox kit for me recently and send it to me but I fear she's developed cold feet or perhaps has run into some sort of roadblock. I'm a little worried because she's suddenly stopped communicating with me at all, which mystifies me if nothing else. I just hope it doesn't mean SHE's relapsed. But, if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen.

As far as the AA conference goes, it doesn't look like I'll have any sort of sobriety by then and wouldn't feel right about attending. Thanks for thinking of me, though. Perhaps we'll meet on another occasion.

Enjoy the conference. Good luck to you and your husband in your continuing recovery.

your friend,

tom

[Gina]

Hey girl--I took your advice and told the nurse at the clinic that I think I need an increase. She told me to fill out a request form and to be specific as to what I was feeling. I told her I have been putting this off cause I didn't want to go any higher but it feels like it wears off early. I have trouble sleeping straight through the night. I explained about the cravings etc. I think I metabolize it quickly. I did find out that if you work out you can actually sweat it out of your system. I have been taking it easy at the gym. When they first increase my dosage as they have in the past everything is fine for about a week then back to this. Hopefully, I will find a dose that works longer than a week. I remember that my counselor told me about a guy who was there for my 10 months and was using the whole time. They increased his dosage by 10mgs and he's been fine ever since. (not using) The counselor couldn't figure out why he didn't ask for an increase. I understand: We are drug addicts and don't want them to think we are just trying to get high off the meds. That's how I feel.

[Patrice]

Hi Tom

I will pray that this works for you Tom.  One question I have, is the person you are going to do this with a doctor?  Any detox not medically supervised can be dangerous.  I only want the best for you Tom,do it the right way, for you.  I know down deep in my gut that I will have to have a narcotic in my body for the rest of my life.  That was a deciding factor, along with Dans help in picking MMT.  See Tom, I like you have CP and if I just detoxed, I would start hurting again, and then start taking the pain pills, then the cycle begins.  I admitted it in my NA meeting last night, and some people didnt respect my decision.  Thats ok, because all I know is I am no longer sticking needles all over my body.  Please let me know what happens with your trearment, ok?  I care about you and only want to see you happy joyious and free!!  Just like the fellowship tells us we can be.  In NA we only have one promise, and that is freedom from active addiction.  So if the MMT keeps me from my best friend heroin, then I believe I will have that freedomm.  thank you for being there for me, and putting up with my sorry ass.  LOL.  I hope to talk to you soon.  Oh and you never answered my question, since you live in Southern Ca, will you be at the AA conferance next month?  My hubby and me would LOVE to see you there.  So PLease lt me know iff you are going, ok?

Love your sister in recovery

Patrice

[J.B. to Gina]

I think that your friend is right on the money.  There can be no recovery without a foundation like NA or AA or some type of after care for the addict.  You can't just tell these people..."well you're clean now and goodbye, that'll be $3500"

It just doesn't work that way in real life!  J.B.

[J.B. to Gina]

I think that your friend is right on the money.  There can be no recovery without a foundation like NA or AA or some type of after care for the addict.  You can't just tell these people..."well you're clean now and goodbye, that'll be $3500"

It just doesn't work that way in real life!  J.B.

[Patrice]

Hi Tom

I think it sucks that you have to get a doctor to certify you as an addict before you can go to a clinic!!!  I live in hick town Fresno and all I had to do was give a blood sample, adn urine sample, and they wanted to see my tracks.  Maybe it is different with prescription drug abuse, I dont know.  I do hope you get into some kind of program and soon, we addicts watch out for each other!!!  The bup program Marianne (sp) is talking about is VERY different from the one I was on.  I beleive you just have to take a few injections, right?  Correct me if I am wrong.  All I know is being on the bup for as many weeks I was DID NOT make the cravings go away.  I chose MMT because it doesnt make me sick, I can funtion on it, and the doctor doesnt say, you cant take your antidepressents etc.  I am on top of the world right now, and Dan is the one who pushed enough of my buttons to make me do it!!!!  Do what ever you can to get into a detox.  In fact call information and ask for Touchstone Medical Group in Clovis California, ask for Tony and tell him you want to get on Bup.  I know there are places in SC that have the program, I believe LA and San Diego.  Hope this helped some, and let me know what you find out,ok?

Take care

Patrice

[Gina]

I was talking to my girlfriend today. She is a licensed clinical social worker. She used to live in NJ but now lives in Fla. She knows of my situation and has been supportive. She knows alot about the field. I was telling her about bup. and she said ,"there's a guy in NJ .." I interrupted her and said '"not Lance Gooberman" and she said " Yeah, that was his name and somebody set me up on a blind date with him." She stated,"I could tell this guy was a recovering drug addict and he had this huge ego, that he shouldn't have ." He is doing a dangerous procedure that people have actually died from." I don't know if it was any of his patients she was referring to but felt very against this procedure. She stated that people need the foundation of Na AFTER detox and felt he wasn't pushing this. I just  wanted to share this interesting info. What do you think?

[tom to Patrice, my friend]

something is "in the works" as we speak, a gift to me which carries with it my solemn promise to the giver not to disclose its source under any circumstances. Suffice it to say, I will not be using nalaxone or any ultra-antagonist, but merely detoxing with the bup, plus a little help from some of bup's "sidemen." Then it will be me, the sponsor I have yet to get, and the subsequent program I have yet to work. If I find that life without some form of opioid agonist in my life doesn't work (an all-to-likely outcome of this process, I fear), than I, too, will take Doc Dan's imminently qualified advice and do what you have done. I think three decades of this life is quite sufficient, thank you. I'm ready for something different. How 'bout you?

[Marie to Tom]

Tom,
Bup is available in Portland,Oregon at OHSU. Perhaps you could call and see what you find out. The pain clinic uses it. Hope this helps.

[tom to Patrice]

consider the other night forgotten. You had a right to defend NA since it's worked so well for you. I was speaking from a very retricted experience with NA (boy, did I pick the wrong meetings!). I wound up finding a more do-able, and compehensible program through AA. My main point was that addicts should be agressive about trying different meetings and, in a way, ruthless about returning to the meetings that, for what ever reason, wind up helping them the most. I've got to tell you, Patrice, the NA meets I attended COULDN'T have been like the ones you spoke of. Anyway, it works when you work it, right?

I'm beginning to think that methadone might well turn out to be "the shortest distance between two points." I find it scary, that's all. I've been, more or less, a lone wolf getting, using, going to jail alone. I find the thought of just walking in and sitting down at a table fills me with dread.

I also have to find a doctor to certify my addiction first, and I absolutely won't do that to the kind, compassinate doc that has helped me maintain myself these last few years on plain old Darvon. (It's been years since I actually felt "high"). Everything I take now is just to keep going another day, then another, etc.

Getting a certification from this doc might very well ruin his career, and this man, Patrice, however "careless" he might be in prescribing drugs for me, is an absolute saint who I'd rather go to jail for than harm in any way. So, I'm waiting for a reply from a psychiatrist who recenty offered to certify me. That will be the first step and I know I will have to do it soon.

I'll check in and let you know how I do. It's just that Maryanne's story was so encouraging, I thought, before accepting the finality of methadone, why not at least try the bup?

Take care. All my best to you and your reovery.
tom

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Yeah, I have done the inpatient thing twice and as soon as I got free of the hospital, I scored more meds.  Sure they get you physically detoxed and provide a lot of education about the addiction process but all the knowledge in the world doesn't help when it comes to craving.  All these well meaning experts tell us things like, quit drinking, quit smoking, quit eating, quit sex, et al.  How to do all this "quitting" is the big mystery in my life.  Quit craving opiates?  You might as well tell me to quit having the common cold!  

I've found that hanging out with people who have been successful in recovery is essential. We simply cannot recover on our own and, as you say, "I end up giving in to my own mind".  I'm far from perfect myself and left to my own devices I would not be alive today.  We do have the ability to change our ways of thinking, however.  Just remember that your present ways have gotten you to this point in your life, and you are realizing the situation as you have said. Where you go from this point is up to you, and you do need some outside help to start making the right choices for yourself.  J.B.