low level methadone taper

[lmccoy]

Hi
Am down to alittle under 10mgs a day of methadone and have been here for a week or so. Started at 80mg a day after taking a prescribed dosage of 270mg of oxy.,both long and slow for about 6 years. Have so many pain and health issues that I don't want to list them all and could have stayed on the oxy forever, except it was not helping as much as one percocet did when I started. Have a history of alcohlism and quit with no relapses 23 years ago, but probably came into the pain treatment with an underlying dope addiction from years of messing around recreationally. (not during period of sobriety). My insurance ran out and I couldn't afford $1200.00 a month for my script so my Dr. switched me to methadone. My real level of oxy use was much higher than prescribed because I was forever messing with my dose. Methadone did a decent job with the pain and for the first time in years I begain to feel free. It helped that I could not feel any euphoria from the meth. at all. For me it had zero abuse potential, but I figured in short order I would also become addicted to it. My prescribing Dr. also moved out of town a just left his patients with a few months of scripts and no referals. I had read to expect trouble at 30mg and below and that is about right. It certainly didn't get easyer. I also made dramatic decreases in the beginning. I went from 80 to 60 to 40 with 5 to 7 days between and at that point started breaking the 10mg in half and dropping 5 mg every 5 to 7 days. Have had to stall out at many plataues for 1 or 2 weeks at a time to get below 10 mg. Without a Dr. I can't get smaller pills and its getting stupid trying to go smaller than a "small" quarter pill. I do not feel very good anyway, but I have not felt good in years and am ill enough that I don't know if I will ever feel good again under any cercomstanses. Any point in draging this out or should I just wash the dog, feed the birds, throw the horse out in the field, take the phone off the hook, and do it?

[lmccoy]

Hi
Appreciate the post, I was uncertain if addicted pain patients should post here and recieved a reasuring post back from some of the people who help run the site. For the time being I'm going to assume that if a post is here it's because there are both pain/addiction issues. I know for me that is the case. Also for some of us we may not have the option of going off all med.s but are aware the at some point they will bite us in the _ss, so having support in place is valuble.

[lmccoy]

Your post was very interesting to me. It's amazing to me that methadone in such small amounts is so potent. I have a history of serious depression and am on permenent treatment for it. My drop to 0 mg only lasted 3 days and I realized it was not the best way for me. I went from 7.5 to 0, lasted 3 days and went back on at only 2.5 mg a day. That was enough, but dosing is difficult enough that I'm at 5 mg now. I plan to stay here utill it starts to becomes a problem in some way. It helps to hear from other people that have simalar experiences. Thanks

[worried878]

Seems like u have a tendency for addiction from ur past
being a chronic painer myself..plus an addict (arent I lucky to be gifted with both afflictions ) I chose to manage my pain without narcotics...if u choose to manage ur pain with narcotics..then the pain forum is the place to be..if not..then this is the place to be..I think u r saying u do not want to stay on narcs for life???
Tapering down would make it easier if u r a good taperer..if not biting the bullet can be less painful than arguing with urself all the time...if i could taper then i would off of methadone..but that is me and we r all different
There is a great article in the health pages on methadone tapering....lots of good info there...methaodne is a narctoic like most here have had addictions to...feel at home and post with us..lots of support here

[lmccoy]

Thanks for the positive feedback. So far so good. All is about the same. My old pain problems are resurfacing in a dissapointing way. It's clear now that the pain med.s were actually doing more than I thought. I would write it off to withdrawl, except I'm haveing a reacuring pain that is the same as when I went on the meds. to start.It really makes no differance anyway because I can live with almost any amount of pain for a month or two, it's just year after year of it as a constant companion that makes life undoable. I hate the tolerating it all day, having it be an issue untill the moment you finally fall asleep and it being the very first thing you are consiouse of when you start to wake up. It seems like a good idea to get a clear look at where I am clean and I needed to do it just so I would know I could. Hopefully I can find some less extreme way to deal with it than taking something so addictive. This is two days in, starting day three, and I would say it's extremly unpleasant, but I'm not violently ill. Have gone cold turkey off 240mg of oxycontin a day and that was scary sick. Never did actually make it to fuctional sobriety without starting up again on that program but this is definitly do able.For me the methadone is a much easyer taper.

[mr.lucky66]

I think you probably did the right thing. I think fooling around with low doses of methadone draws the suffering out, some detox docs also believe this. You sound like you did a good job and now just have to keep the faith and trust in God. It sounds likes you can handle it and maybe use some meds like imodium , clonidine or bentyl. Let's see how you do. I've done it many times and some times weren't bad. all the best

[lmccoy]

Thanks for the input, but it's alittle late, took my last dose yesterday at 7AM and am now alittle over 24 hrs into this. Last dose was about 2,5mg. (1/4 of a 10mg.). I sure do feel crummy, but I'm not puking and I'm on my feet and off for a bath. Hope that helps. I still have enough of my prescription to go back on and do a slower taper if it gets to rugged, but I'm sick of fooling around with this.

[gnarly_1]

HI tapering off methadone can be a ruff ride especially in the lower doses...10 is low and your probably going to feel each drop for here on in but I know a lot of people that tryed to jump at 10ml and it was to difficult and they wound up going back....I did a 8 1/2 mo taper off 150ml went 10% every 72hr till I hit 10ml then 1ml a week till I hit 1ml....
I dont recamend taking it to 1ml tapering below 5ml is miserable and my final withdrawal was no worst then tapering below 5ml so just take it 1ml a week till you hit 5ml stay there a week then jump off....methadone withdrawals last around 7days for the physical part but the mental part can hang with you a wile but it is doable you just need to take your time in the end to get it right....after doing it I feel 5ml would be a good jumping off point...low enough to keep you from sever withdrawals but high enough to avoid prolonging a miserable taper...good luck to you and God bless....Gnarly      

[Prospero73]

By the way, congratulations on the 23 years of sobriety!  I've been a friend of Bill's since Jan. 24, 1986.  You can do it, whatever you decide to do.

[lmccoy]

Good question and not one I can answer without alot of thought. It would depend on whether I was likely to become as addicted to the methadone as I was the oxy. For now my primary question is do I just quit the meth at this point (under 10 mg) or keep fooling around with reductions. I am pretty sure I'm just quiting today. I'm assuming that if I do and am OK in 4 days I will probably make it.

[mr.lucky66]

I feel for your situation.I have a lot of experience w methadone and a little with pain.It sounds like you need something for pain right? and the methadone is working. I understand about the addiction and oxys and it seemes like you are one of the poeple that methadone worked well for. The question is, how hard is it for you to be narcotic free, after all detox issues? There is no right or wrong answer only your answer. all the best

[lmccoy]

Thanks for the answer, I don't know where this stuff is supposed to be because I have never posted or responded to anything on the internet. There are definitly two issues here. Addiction/abuse and pain managment. I live in an extremely rural area and the closest pain Drs are at least 60 miles away. The local Drs have been harassed so bad that the local GP will not even chart my taper and follow me medically. The methadone worked well and I felt completly sober even at 80 mgs., but my obsession with the oxy that I developed and the tolerance I built to it have me just sick of the whole thing. I was suicidal from the pain and in the hospital at least every other month at the time I opted to start long acting pain meds, but I saw an exellent ostiopath for the last 6 years and if I am carefull with myself I'm hoping to stay off the drugs. I am also hoping that if my pain gets to the point I'm in and out of the hospital again that the fact I took myself off my meds and did it with out a fuss will increase the chances of getting a prescribing Dr. to help me. I would probably have more trouble, except I have been straight for so many years now I wouldn't even know how to find street drugs or be able to live with my self if I resorted to looking for them.

[Prospero73]

I'll just play devil's advocate here and ask: if a low dose of methadone is doing a decent job with the pain, as you say, why not stay on it, supposing that you can find another doctor to prescribe it.  That is one of the legitimate uses of methadone, and it's probably not as bad for your body as an equivalent dose of NSAIDs.  This being a substance abuse forum, I wouldn't expect much support for this point of view, but perhaps it would be more appropriate on the Pain Management Forum.