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Avatar universal

methadone and heroin wd

Hi all. Ok so here is the story as short as possible. Im 26 years old sadly i relapsed 4 months ago on H for the 5th time, after 3 years clean. Sad and pathetic. I used every day for that period. I wanted to quit so i took methadone for the first time in my life. I did 3ml per day but then i combined H at night. Then i descovered that meth. WD are worse and take a looooong time. I freaked and stoped and continued with H. I am off meth almost 3 weeks now. And today is my day 9 of full detox. The very bad WD stoped but i still get the chills, sweats, crazy mood swings and also still very weak. I want to know when will it get better. I take this pills to get low pressure they help. But i have never experienced WD longer than 7 days! I need some info what is happening when will it get better?
28 Responses
4522800 tn?1470325834
It takes Time & Patience. Everyone will bounce back in different time frames. The older and longer one has used the longer it takes because of how much unbalancing on the Brain was done. Many factors play here too, like your Health. Make sure you are eating very healthy and taking some good vit/min. Drink tons of water to flush the toxins out. Antioxidants are great at this time, any and all..Get some kind of Aftercare. It is the Mental that takes time and we have to work on changing those bad behaviors. I like to study this disease in a more Scientific way. It will show you what gets whacked out in the brain from what and also the Mid-brain which is the Pleasure center. This disease is not all about Willpower..It takes Help to stay in Recovery and it take Work to keep on going. I wish you all the best. There is so much more to this detox and and after detox. One Minute, Hour or Day at a time. Takes time to balance out Physically, Mentally and Spiritually.
Bless
Vickie
Avatar universal
I will do my best to eat healthy. I drink water, not tons but i stay dehidrated. I just really hope the physical will be over by the end of this week. I do have to go back to work and im just scared that it wount get better. Im praying that tomorrow will be eazier. Its hard to meet people, those who dont and shouldnt know my situation. Im doing it this time without family, its just not fair to have them suffer again. Im trying to be strong im just wondering more on specific time frame since methadone was new to me and didnt use much nor long. I am happy i got to day 9 i just want the physical symptoms to be over. The mental is next i have a great deal of willpower this time because at this point no one can stop me to relaps but myself. Its not easy i just want to feel normal like i use to before this relaps 4 months ago.
Tnx Vickie for replying.
4522800 tn?1470325834
Hi Again.
The H is more on the natural side..(sort of speaking) so it will detox out quicker. The more synthetic the drug is the more it sticks around in the bones, cells and so forth. You did not take the Dones to long so you should be coming around sooner then later. It sounds more like you are still detoxing the H out. Have Patience..You will be out of the water and walking on the beach soon..
Bless
Avatar universal
Wow thats interesting. I was sure that this WDs that i am having now are from the methadone because everytime i have quit heroin it was 7 days physical. And now i am almost on day 10. Maybe it takes longer since its my 5th time? And i am older i guess. Thank you really for replying to me its great to have some feedback iv been trying to reasurch everyday what the hell is taking so long and why. It was driving me crazy not knowing whats happening. I was doing 1 gram before i guit, i didnt mention that. But before that i did much more i guess i tapered it down somewhat eventhough 1g. is still alot i think.
Also i am not from the states, here methadone is in liquid form i dont know if its the same in the states. I read people they took 80mg or 150mg per day of methadone and it sounds crazy to me because its so much. Could it be the liquid form to be more potent?
By the way im sorry i am bombarding you with questions i was just sord of desperate and very confused...
thanks again
Mey
4522800 tn?1470325834
You keep on asking all you want..
We have a lot of people who went from Heroin to Methadone. Have patience and they will swing bye. I will PM one of my dear friends on here who has so much info herself.

The Dones do stick around for a long time in the body. I did mine for over 12 yrs and before that was the hydo/oxys. I did not even kick in my detox until the 10th day, and like I said above, it took me many months physically and then yrs mentally. It does get Harder and Harder as we get OLDER!! Hang in and keep checking your post..
Bless
Avatar universal
Great, id love to hear more experiences. I wish i had lots of days and weeks to detox at home with no stress as i am now but unfortunatly Monday, go back to work day so i think maybe i better get to drinking tons of water. I am a graphic designer so i sit all day but while iv been home detoxing this past few days i cant sit still i have to be doing something mostly cleaning or whatever but laying too long makes me crazy i just get too hot in any position and then the temtations come, but iv come this far... i cant wait for this to end, its deffinetly the worst one of all and longest so far.
4810126 tn?1503942735
Hi there & Welcome :)

First, kudos to you on staying off H for 3 yrs! You are not sad or pathetic -- you are an addict -- plain & simple -- & you're fighting it. Great start! You're in the right place. 2nd, Yaaaay you for getting through the first 9 days of M'done detox!! It's certainly a special sort of hell & yeah, I agree, the intensity & length of acute w/d's off H, while awful, don't stack up to the M monster.

I too was on liquid M'done (the last time, for 20 yrs.) I tapered down from 140 to 28 & then jumped (I should have weaned further but I got impatient & just went for it). My friend, Vic, is right: the more habits you've had (doesn't matter which opiate), the older you get, the harder the kicks become! Two things you have on your side? You're young & the brain is 'plastic' (meaning some of the disrupted neural pathways can slowly heal/adjust). If only most of us had the wisdom & understanding to quit when we were younger & could heal more easily. To reiterate, longer you do it, the harder it is to readjust physically & spiritually. So, please, Now is the time!

In terms of your question, (& I do understand what you're going through right now, believe me!), you're almost through the 'acutes'. It's not clear from your post how long you've done H cumulatively but that use is playing into what you're experiencing now in that you would have had an easier M'done kick (since you're new to it) if you hadn't had previous opiate habits. I'd tend to disagree with my (awesome) mate above that you're still getting residual H out of your system. You were, however, on a low dose of M'done. So that's good -- that's on your side because, it does, indeed store in fat & bone tissue over time.

I'm right with VIC, as always, when it comes to healthy eating, hydration, exercise & good supplements. It may not sound that exciting but it really DOES make a difference in healing time & mood. Addicts are suffering from years of malnutrition when they kick.This affects everything, mood, stamina, healing, digestion, cognitive function, etc.

I hear you on your fears about having to return to work before you feel right! (But actually, believe it or not it'll be the best thing for you -- the psychological distraction & physical routine of it will help). You will have lingering symptoms for a while -- mostly fatigue, apathy, tearing, poor sleep & sneezing. If you stay on track, these will begin to resolve. (We didn't get addicted in a day, so it's only reasonable that it takes some time to heal from the violence we've done ourselves). You might also experience gut issues. I doubt you'll experience the thyroid & pancreatic disruptions that can develop after years of hardcore use. (Knock wood!)

The single most important thing in getting better & getting to a place where you won't relapse is self-knowledge, a positive attitude & an open mind! You've mentioned 'willpower' twice. Please, try to understand, it's not about willpower! Willpower alone won't do it. If it were -- if that's what it took, these boards would be empty. Many here have tremendous willpower in other areas of their lives. I'm one of them. If you (like many who repeatedly relapse) magically believe that 'If I just get the stuff out of my system & 'try' really hard this time' with no change in your game plan, you're doomed to failure. Guaranteed. The most important part of this for you (believe us, 'cause we're living it) is going to be about sitting in your own skin without reaching for some form of chemical escape. So, your path will be about learning how to cope 'without', how to protect & understand yourself & how to productively interact with yourself & your environment. (Heady stuff, eh? ;))

It really resonated with me that you mentioned doing this on your own this time because you didn't think it was fair to your family. I felt the same exact way but almost all of us need some kind of support beyond this community through one source or another. We don't do well on our own. It's also a good idea for us to let certain others know so that we're locally 'witnessed' -- 'accountable' in what we're doing. It's a further way of showing yourself that you're really doing it this time. That you're committed.

Again, great job on putting the brakes on! (Love it!) Please keep posting. Let us know how it's going & what you think.

We're here & we're pulling for you :)
4522800 tn?1470325834
Annie
She relapsed 4 weeks ago and was doing the Methadone and the Heroin at night. She claims she has 9 days in and I would assume she means off the H??? This is why I think she is detoxing the H out and not so much the Methadone. That was short lived at 3mls...
4810126 tn?1503942735
Yup,

Right you are VIC! ~ detoxing from dope..It's the H for sure. Doubt it's the M'done -- not @ that dose for that duration. Sorry 'bout dat, got your message & posted this on my phone -- I'm out & about. (I'm as blind as a bat & not very good when it comes to using the ole LG for this so forgive me, Goddess :))

@Meygirl, it still applies: your kick is worse because each time you go back, it gets worse. Also, you introduced (albeit briefly) a stronger opiate into the mix. These things count & they add up. Stay with us!
Avatar universal
Hi ladies first of all thanks for replying and with so much info. I actually relapsed 4 months ago not weeks Vic. I wish it was weeks. And i was using H for that amound of time. I did methadone for 2 or 3 weeks i am not sure really, but i stoped the methadone 3 weeks ago and more on 3ml per day BUT also with doing H at night. Then just continued with heroin since i descovered what happens with methadone WD thinking ill detox the meth by now so it will just be H detox.
i just woke up before the birds its 5am so 4 hours sleep :) i do have gut issues and i think its because the first 4 or 5 days i hardly drank or ate anything of the detox. i did loose weight in this 9 day detox period today day 10. My stomach is cramping right now i feel like i have to eat i dont know. I did start eating well and more and drinking lots of fluid but not from day one of the detox, actually just 4 to 5 days ago.
Would you say after this info,( i hope its more clear) something different of the detox in particular.
Tnx for everything else you wrote. I can feel it will be a long time to get to where you say and alooot of soul searching.
Im not totally alone i do live with my fiance. He took care of me the first days so i dont choke or something, i was highly sedated with pills perscribed by a doc to keep me as calm as possible. Now he has work and obligations so most day im alone. My fiance also has a history but i will tell you about that another time. Now i just really feal i have to eat right away im starting to get worse cramps
4810126 tn?1503942735
Hi again & it's good to see you! :)

I'm glad to hear that there's someone there for you! (Hopefully, he's in 'recovery'/clean). Doing this on our own can be rough! In order to make it work, I had to cut ties with many of my friends who were still involved in 'the life'. So, initially, for almost a year, I only had some of the amazing folks on this site to pull me through as the man I was with was with @ the time was still using. As a result, I clung to this place like a Titanic victim to a life-vest until I was able to start touching sand with my toes from time to time. It was a gradual struggle to shore from there but then I was almost 48 when I embarked on my new existence & there was extensive damage to be undone. (Enough 'bout me, what's important is you right now :)

I had a feeling that you might have gut issues. Both heroin & M'done will do that to you. So, Meygirl (forgive me but not sure of your name :), a few questions if that's ok..:

How long did you do dope or other opiates before the 3 yrs. clean? How's your sleep, right now? Can you describe your other symptoms -- like the gut thing? Your emotional state? Let's get you through this & make it stick!

We're here :)

Annie

Avatar universal
Also i forgot to mention i am a smoker. I dont know how i couldnt be one while doing Heroin one doesnt go without the other. :) But sadly i am a smoker from a very young age maybe 14 or 15. And first time i tried heroin was at 18. I tried pretty much any drung before heroin, lsd was amazing for me in the forest in nature and so revealing i still remember the experience :) but then in college i tried Heroin and that was that. I knew there wasnt something better than that, the fealing was...perfect i guess. I think i have relapsed so much is because i really fell in love with this drug like pure love. Made me feal exactly what i wanted and how i wanted. I wasnt a very outgoing person i was more on the shy side younger...Etherway, it came with a cost i didnt even know what WD were i just knew heroin was bad like all drugs.
I was 3 years clean but its not enough, i just found a stupid excuse to use once but here is the funny sad part. When you relaps for the 5th time even after 3 years if u can believe the next day i actually had wd mild but had them...
Avatar universal
My name is Mey :) i still have the chills, some restless symtoms in the legs, hard to sleep and emotionally...i am all over. I feel like a psyho at times these past 3 days. I will start yelling ill get sad and then ill be ok and again...
Still the sweats i can feal they will be here and hotflashes, runny nose. Gut- diareah which started not so long ago. It seamd everything i ate was just making me hurt after 5 minutes. Its a little better now my stomach geting more used to food.
Thats about it for now.
4810126 tn?1503942735
Man!..
I just got the s
hivers reading your post. Our stories sound quite similar: I started smoking @ 14 or 15, tried just about every drug out there & then fell in love (exactly how I used to describe it, myself) w/ H late in my 17th year.

I understand that feeling of 'disconnect' when you're kind of ambivalent/torn when you still have some 'feelings' for the drug & as a result believe that  you can't possibly 'get here from there' -- that it's hard to commit entirely to kicking because the drug still has such a pull on your affections...

I don't think I've ever expressed the following on forum in the almost 3 yrs. I've been here but here goes but here goes..:

I gradually began to see (probably @ the same age you did) that this was an all-consuming, selfish, vampiric 'lover' (that ended up making me a shadow of what I should have been @ the time). Bit by bit, over many years I found that the price of the relationship was an ever-dwindling quality of existence & a narrowing of possibilities for me in every arena: physical, mental, emotional & spiritual -- a terrible winnowing of in every respect. The most shameful of which, I think, was how I thought of myself & therefore thought of others & the world. There was a time when I didn't understand why anyone would want to live life without opiates, when I couldn't imagine myself clean & had absolutely no desire to be -- when I used to pity people who didn't know 'the joy' of it. This was the protracted hypnotic, honeymoon. I still marvel @ the insidious romance & power of Heroin -- even when things were starting to go very wrong. I look back on it in astonishment (& terror for others in the same boat) because I still recall my nonsensical submission to it despite an intellectual understanding of what it was doing to me so vividly. I often think of all the beloved & cool friends I lost to this insatiable void. I know that I've expressed this here in a way that's not typical for forum but reading your post tonight just brought it all back & I felt like writing it out -- perhaps in too 'fanciful' a way. All that counts, though, is that you know that someone was feeling the way you might feel & was somehow able to get through it to a better place. So, what I'm hoping, is that with you, it's not going to take as long as it did me, right? ;)

An exercise: (You mentioned soul-searching & I wanted to applaud you for that! It's where the straight path always begins..): So, in that vein, can you share some of the reasons (despite your lingering love/obsession with the drug) why you want to kick? For instance, beyond the financial cost, the shameful stigma/secrecy & the need to constantly score, what's moving you to do this? In other words, what does your 'better' or 'higher' self say about all this?
Avatar universal
My fiance was clean for 6 years and sadly i pulled him back in :( Now he is doing 1ml of methadone for 1 week and he is planning to lower to 0.5 this days and from friday to stop. I will help him then if he needs me. I dont have any other user friends.
We know what we have to do and what to do and how to do it. Iv had 3 years i got addicted to excercise i was actually doing crossfit and i was very fit. He had 8 years and more i think. He is 32. We are together 6 years i relapsed once before 3 years ago and i didnt tell him. When he found out he wanted to break up he was so angry for the lieing of most. But then he didnt he knew im a hard case and he actually got me to stick this 3 years.
He is very strong to make us both get back as we were for the sake of us. It doesnt bother nor make me anxious that he does Methd. If i relaps ill do H, methadone is just not an option and i absolutely hate it for stiking for so long and yet using for such a small period. I can see it in front of me and it makes me sick.
If i see heroin on the other hand, that would be a hell of a temptation but i know i wount unless its only brought by me, and for now i just want to get to feel better its just driving me crazy to feel sick for 10 days and i am preparing now for more days to come of fealing like this.
And another symptom, shaky hands :(
4810126 tn?1503942735
Mey :)

How's your sleep been? Do you drink coffee, alcohol or energy drinks. You talked about being heavily sedated & I understand..I did that initially, too. Was it benzos?

4810126 tn?1503942735
Sorry!

Your second post wasn't showing when I posted the above. The RLS will abate soon. (Promise! a powdered cal/mag/zinc formula will help with this & it's also slightly sedative). How's the energy?
Avatar universal
I love your post!!! You just said everything i still feal but now im in the middle. For the first time in my life the temtation is not taking over me, for now, im going to take some opiate block pills after this for some time, mentally they really help knowing that you just cant use, i feel they keep me safe from myself.
I dont want it to take that long its sound like a lifetime:( i want to live free and back on my crossfit and insanity excercises, you actually get a natural high from that, thats what i want at the moment and LOVE. Me and my fiance lost eachother a bit in LOVE. After 7 years a relationship needs work on passion the most.
Well see where this story goes...
Avatar universal
It was benzos, hypnotics, and pills for low pressure which i must be careful but im cuting them down slowly they help me sleep too. I dont drink cofee and nothing for energy just because i dont want to get too up, or should i.
I will reasurch more on the diet and what to eat that will be the best for me.
4810126 tn?1503942735
Oh Mey :)

I'm glad that my post made sense to you. That's all that counts. I don't get the chance to post that much anymore, but run on intuition when I do.

I was in several long-term 'opiate' relationships. To this day, I still love them but they were 'undoable' b/c I discovered that I needed to go my own way first. Unfortunately, the stats -- the success rate for H couples trying to kick & staying clean is minute. The data tanks when it comes to two. It's hard enough doing it on your own. The key, I believe is that you neither of you can do it for the other. You both must get clean for Yourselves, first & foremost for yourselves (& secondarily for each other & then family & friends).

You're doing right by staying away from caffeine, alcohol & energy drinks!! Research is a great idea. Commit to your kick & learn, learn, learn as much as you can. Also, the sooner you get off the benzos, the better. They can be as hard a kick as anything & totally mess with your sleep, stress levels & gut!

Believe it or not you're doing wonderfully (I know it might not seem like it! ;) The emotional roller-coaster you're on right now is completely 'normal' & will gradually ease. Stick with it, warrior! Start telling yourself that nothing can tear you down or turn you back. Let's just make sure that your game plan is different this time.

We're here :)

Annie
Avatar universal
Tnx for stiking with me who knows how late it is now where you are :)
I know the chances of H coupels, they are very minimal wev been to a shrink for that and probably go again see what went wrong this time. I am getting clean for me and he for him for now! I am scared but i see a clean future with this person and i want to make it real and him even more.
I am feeling too many emotions now and i dont want to bring them in my mind i just want to focus on me now and then will see what happens.
I think some greater power will gide me somehow.
Everything thats happened in my life has had some kind of reason, and iv been given many chances to life from other friends who didnt and not to go to dark paths just to score.
I feal what needs to happen will happen time will tell.
I dont know what the future holds i just know i want break this H love now!
4810126 tn?1503942735
Mey, :)

Yup..

'Tis late, for sure, on this side of the pond (where are you anyways? The pond might be much larger than I'm imagining!:)) Forgive me for the sloppy posts but I'm not on my laptop & have been attempting to write on my phone (something I'm not so good @. Don't want to scare you but my vision hasn't been so hot after detox [just another reason to stop now! :)]). I've gotta' go down soon but I wanted to tell you that I'll be thinking about you & checking in on you (hope you don't mind! :)

I too, believe that everything happens for a reason. (I've made a careful study of it in my life for the past 15 yrs. or so). The thing I also discovered though, is that intentions translated into actions are also a powerful spiritual force & affect the 'everything happens for a reason'. What I'm saying is that if we take no decisive action, things will happen for a reason -- but usually not for the good. I've found that the 'creative force' (or whatever your preferred term is) responds to what we put out there in terms of thought, word & deed..
So, if the past hasn't worked for us, it's time to try a different tack.

I'm glad to hear that you guys have gotten as far as couples' counseling! ;) Good sign.

You sound tired..

What time is it there?
Avatar universal
Hang in there, not to quote my grandma lol, but remember- this too shall pass... I am also myself at the end of methadone withdrawal- I was on 95mg of liquid (not too bad) per day for 2 years after a nasty bit with heroin (and coke,meth,really anything I could get my hands on...). Now I'm still no angel but I'll tell you what got me through, cuz I quit cold turkey- just stopped going one day and some people may not like my advice. LOTS of immodium, or if you can get your hands on some welchol (for IBS- that's the stuff there!) Benzos- preferably klonopin (I was lucky enough to have a script), and lots of benadryl and unisom- alternate between the 2 because they have different active ingredients that make you really tired so you sleep through the worst. Oh- and don't forget the ibuprofen! And don't take your eyes off the prize- remember nothing ***** worse than waking up dope sick as he'll and having to search your house for anything remaining that may be pawnable just so you can go and just barely get right for a few hours.... stay strong ;)
Avatar universal
Does ibuprofen help with the restless leg cuz thats making me crazy now, ill try tonight if it does help. I have clonidine, i have to say it helps alot but im lowering the dose on that. No other pills i dont think i need anything else, but i didnt think of ibuprofen and iv had it all along. At least to take at night if it does hel
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