oxycodone/hydro codone

[skipper]

since 1997 i have been in intractable pain.  i have had 2 surgerys done on my cervical spine. i'm still in terrific pain. i also am a recovering drug addict  (yep,
you guessed it Opiates.)   i currently am taking 40mg. of oxy-contin three times a
day. before i was put on oxy-contin i was taking 20 mg of hydro-codone 5 times
a day. Is there another opiate that would not have the same problem of sedation
oxy and hydro have? My pharmasist   told me of a narcotic that he hasn't seen
used in 15 years that was what  i was after. It was called levro-dromorian i be-
lieve. is a drug like this on the market? does it really offer sedation free pain re-
lief?
thankyou and keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[enivid]

I've taken one or two vicodin a day for over a year, will I experience withdrawal syptoms?

[Wizard]

You are on the right path now my friend.......keep busy, keep focused and thank you...read my post above.
Sleep well my friend.
luv wiz

[Telby]

Nice to meet you Ginger Lee.  Actually it was the Wizard who shared with us the Catholic connection butI wish I had thought of it.  I have noticed that it seems there are a number of us who seem to work in jobs that are either human services or something closley connected to helping people.  In the past few years I have seen so called helping professionals who are wonderful with the client walking in the door for help but turn nasty and negative when a co worker or a peer has the nerve to develope a problem such as drug addiction, physical disability, or mental illness.  The extra preasure of worring that you can loose a job or the respect of co workers is really a burden and I don't believe it's just me being paranoid.  I've had two close friends who worked with me commit suicide and it was all the more disturbing because they were both surrounded by professionals in the mental health and addictions field yet they called no one, told no one, asked no one to help them in their darkest hour.  Nor did the people around them see the despair they were in.  I had tried very hard to help one of these people but I admit that I was stunned by the second death, I sure didn't see any indication of a problem.  I have also moved through the halls where master level and above clinicians worked with me while I was strung out on oxicotins and no one ever noticed or if they did they did not come to me - I often felt invisable and alone in a place where I should of felt safe and understood.  More then that I felt fear, I was terrified of these people finding out how sick I was, afraid they would put my job in jeopardy and I was too ill to fight for myself.  I am not blaming anyone, I am a good little actress and went out of my way to keep my secrets a secret.  I just find it interesting how often in these postings people who are suffering make reference to working as, or with, or around therepists.  And as the Wizard pointed out there are quite a few catholics in the group, all the guilt maybe.         I did my Thanksgiving shopping today, spent a fortune on every fruit, vegtable, and you name it that I could find.  I really want to be able to celebrate the holidays this year, I was a wreck last year and it has bothered me all year.  My daughter is 13 now and growing up so fast I want her to have memories to take with her that are warm and sweet.  So I will cook and fuss and thank God for the multitude of blessings in my life.  I did not have a great day but it was fun to tool around Big Bear and fill my cart with so much.  I also splurged and bought a wonderful warm jacket with horses on it that I found on sale, just like a real person.  I also bought the ingrediants for Thomas's Detox Receipe however I could not find deprinyl.  The gal at the health food store never heard of it and I couldn't give her any information because I had never heard of it either.  Maybe someone can point me in the right direction as Thomas thinks it's great and will help with withdrawl.  It was a blast spending my money on legal drugs for a change - I will begin tonight.  My brain definatly needs some assistance as I have screwed up all my poor nero transmittors ( please forgive my spelling through out)  I am for sure not in full operating order in the mental capacity department, hopefully vitamins, minerals, amino acids will give me a jump start.  Another day under my belt-I hope I can sleep tonight as I had a very difficult night last night.  I love you all, Telby

[GingerLee]

I know this is unrelated, but since you are polling... I am Catholic.

[Witchywoman]

JB, as far as I can tell, yes, the relationship between hydro abuse and hearing loss is indeed confirmed.  There are small opiate receptors in the inner ear, that when damaged, somehow also create damage to the very fine hairs inside the ear, and once those are damaged they can not be repaired.  

Do a search on hydrocodone and hearing loss, or vicodin and hearing loss to see the articles I pulled up. Doctors haven't made the connection until recently because people hide their hydro abuse.  I saw my Doc yesterday and he has referred me to a specialist who knows more about how to asses it than he does.

Small amounts of hydro over time don't seem to do the damage. Large amounts over time do.  Some people are more susceptible than others, but it the damage can manifest months or even years after the long term abuse has occured. Sometimes, if you stop the meds right away, it is reversible. Sometimes it progresses no matter what you do.
If you take an appropriately presribed ammount for pain, it does not seem to cause the damage.  It seems to be more the hydro than the tylenol that does it.

Very scary.  I hope I'm ok.  I'm so upset about it, I have to just try to put it in a corner of my mind to get through the work day, and pray that I am one of the lucky ones in whom it reverses, or at least does not progress...or that it is unrelated the hydro...but, I did start to have hearing problems while on the hydro, so I'm guessing that is the culprit.

The articles didn't say anything about oxy, so I don't know if that is associated with hearing loss as well.

love,
WW

[Telby]

No kidding some of the very best people i have ever known were and are drug addicts, maybe that's why we hurt so bad.  I think to the outside world we look self serving but really our hearts are sooooo big we can feel love even when we're on enough dope to put down an elephant.  I have been reading in other posts about this hearing problem, that is very scary.  I am beginning another clean day, keep expecting to wake up feeling great but so far that hasn't happened.  I'm going to stay on track and maybe get out of the darkness for good this time.  Me and those pills are just a deadly combination and that is not about to change.  I hope I never suffer the kind of pain many of you have to endure on a daily basis, I would be in big trouble if there was really a reason for me to get these drugs.  I will be on and off line through out the day so stay tuned.  love, Telby

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

WW, I was intrigued by your mention of deafness caused by hydrocodone usage. Is it confirmed? I've had tinnitis for maybe two years that comes and goes and my doctor tells me that it's probably caused by high blood sugar. Another doctor told me that hypertension may be to blame. Today the ringing is not there and my blood sugar is 128 and my BP is 137/87. But I've had no hydrocodone for almost two weeks, just the MS Contin(morphine). My ears did ring a lot when I was taking high doses of hydrocodone though, especially when I was in withdrawals. With the controlled release of the med I'm taking now, things seem to be on an even keel compared to the abrupt ups and downs of the shorter acting narcotics like hydrocodone and oxycodone. As I've said time and again, all I want is a state of equilibrium in my life where everything seems to be safe and secure....and pain free! I suppose that's a lot to ask for as a human being? Somebody said above that they went fifteen years in hell before discovering a med that offered some relief. Now that's a hero in my book!

My hat is off to WW, Wizard and all who have been able to stay clean for any length of time through a great deal of effort. I was clean for many years and I know that it takes guts and an almost insane desire to stay clean. As long as you share with us here, you will be rewarded tenfold in life! As for me, life has changed me into what I am today....somewhere out there looking for help and too proud to admit it.  When all is said and done, I'm still an addict. But this is not as depressing as it sounds as there is always hope and life can be rewarding even in it's darkest moments. Despite all of my faults and shortcomings, I'm still lovable and worthwhile...I keep telling myself that as I pray for us all. Have a wonderful Thanksgiving!

J.B.

[Witchywoman]

Hi Butterbean,
Yes I'm still here. I just am hardly ever online over the weekend, (I give my weekend time to my husband) and while today is my day off, I spent it going to a Doc apt, running errands, and generally taking care of myself and life.  Thanks for thinking of me though, that makes me feel good.  At times I feel that I spend so much of my energy focusing on trying to help others (that is my fulltime job at work as well) that I forget to let folks know that I am still a vulnerable person, with problems and needs.

I'm very worried about myself, and spent a large portion of the day either crying or fighting back tears.  Though I've been clean 3 months, I started to have hearing problems toward the end of my using, and for the past 2 weeks I've had bad ringing in my ears. I saw my Doc today to discuss it. He is sending me to a specialist, but I am scared that I've cause irreprable, progressive damage to my hearing due to years of hydro abuse.

So, for the moment, I didn't have a lot to give to others today. I'm scared. Angry. Ashamed.
I'm hoping the ringing in my ears is due to something else, or if not..that it doesn't progress to extensive hearing loss.

For anyone out there who wants to get clean and is having a hard time doing it, let this be a motivator for you. We've had one poster (Zazzy) tell us that she did indeed go deaf from hydro abuse.  If you can, use this as a motivator to stop.  Had I known about this a year ago....
Well, if wishes were horses I"d be riding on a sandy Hawaiin beach right about now.

sorry for my down mood...
thanks everyone. I need you all.
love,
WW

[Telby]

Is it almost over?  Is this hard old day just about done with me?  Well I made it another 24 hours drug free and I managed to show my face to the world and pulled that off.  I did allow myself to fall asleep in the late afternoon which was a mistake ( I should of kept moving Wiz) seems my sickness catches me when I sleep in the day.  I felt real real sorry for myself most of tonight and pouted because I wanted drugs but thankfully that drama has also passed for now.  I can actually believe I am going to do it this time, just gotta keep myself safe a while longer until I get stronger.  I stand at the window looking for the dope man saying "don't come over, don't call" but I'm looking - but not very hard.  I still want this really bad and I think way off in the distance I see a light.  Hey - butterbean you have helped me so much, what ever you do it will be the right thing.  You are a very strong person and I know you'll get the answeres you need.  This morning my teeth were killing me, really hurting. I thought, wow Dentist!!!  Pain meds!!! But then I remebered about myself and had to admit that I knew my teeth  would feel better as I got better so I didn't play that hand today.  Now at 10:35pm, my teeth don't hurt and I got through. Thank you all so much for being on the other end of this nightmare with me, I have felt your support and love every step of the way.  I still got miles to go but I feel much better then I have in a long time.  Wizard you are my King and I love you to pieces, thank you for being there.   I will check in tomorrow and if I have trouble sleeping I'll be back tonight. God Bless you - love, Telby

[Wizard]

***@****

[Wizard]

J.B., first off I respectfully agree it's safer down here :-)
I also believe in miracles my friend. But I also believe they only happen when you do not give up Hope, keep your Faith and do not despair. That's a tall order, but I believe we are a tall bunch! I'll look forward to that e-mail, whenever you feel a "hankerin". :-)
Butterbean, whatever you decide is right for you, know you'll get support for it as long as it comes from your heart. You see we reap what we sow, I have sensed nothing but love and compassion from you from the very first post that I read. You've got a big heart my friend. I know you will do what it tells you to. Listen to the Truth and follow the path to the Light. One more day, one more hour, one more minute closer to Freedom. By the way, it would be interesting if we got a grant to study us addicts LOL. A while back I found that a large majority of us here on the forum had Catholic roots. I mean it was amazing how many of us were or are Catholic. No disrespect is intended, as I'm still a practicing Catholic....maybe it had to do with all the knuckle cracking I got with the rulers in parochial school?????
Telby, you hanging in there? Keep the the focus my friend. Your posts are filled with the right advice and it looks like you putting up a fight like a Warrior! Stay strong and know we are with you like your wingmen! Leave your computer on line if it stops your connection from calling.....anything that works is positive to me! You're in my thoughts and prayers along with with all the "Angels" here. The day is almost over so another one bites the dust!
Power & Magic 2 U,
Wiz

[butterbean]

Ginger, just keep posting, if only one word, one sentence.  I am here for you.  Sometimes I just read too, and feel so drained that I can't post.  Then I do a few things and come back and post, because while I am thinking of you, you are thinking of helping me!  That's what good, kind hearted people are all about.  I know many people in the small agency I work for that are taking the same meds I am and they don't seem to think or act like they are addicted.  Of course, i can tell which ones are.  So see, WE, on this forum are the strong ones, the ones who are admitting we are hurting from this and want help.  We get this help from each other, because we care deeply.  Otherwise we would always read and not post!  Thank you Ginger for coming back to us.  Have a good night. Let me know you are OK.
Love Butterbean

[GingerLee]

I am here butterbean, I am listening for now, but I am here. Thank you for asking.

[butterbean]

J.B and Wiz, thanks for the advice.  I am hoping this pain will go away, but, if not I may try taking a med now and then.  I have told myself if I abuse them, they are in the trash and I will try to get doc to find me something that will help with some of the pain.  WW haven't heard from you in while, are you OK?  Ginger where are you?  are you OK?  Everyone just keep knowing you are great people.  It seems some of the warmest, kindest and emotional people are the ones who get addicted to drugs.  Maybe we should do a study on that!  Think we could get a grant???  I want to say that in my job I work with a lot of therapists, counselors, etc, but, the most empathatic people I know right now are the people I have met on this forum.  I feel like I have many friends helping me and surrounding me with love.  Thank all of you so, so , much!
Love Butterbean

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

It seems like a safe place to be way down here on this board with all the bickering going on up above about Dr. Steve. I offered my opinion about these matters long ago and left it at that.

Wizard, you are a marvelous person and don't be surprised to get my e-mail soon.  I agree with what you say about the pain issue. I've been experiencing this first hand for over a year.  With some reservation, I'll say that right now I'm better off with the pain meds than without them. I'd also like to think that my condition will improve somehow. I'm praying for that miracle to happen! Hang on, Telby and Butterbean, you are in my prayers too!

J.B.

[Wizard]

Goodmorning people! Congrats on not chewing J.B. I know how hard it is when your pain is chronic and the desire is strong. I'm going to speak only for myself on this subject of chronic pain. It is not a crime or something to be ashamed of if one needs meds for a serious chronic condition. But speaking only for myself, I had reached a point after my last back surgery, where I had to determine where my pain threshold really was.You see I hated being a slave to the opiates and yet if I didn't take them in excess I was in constant pain that SEEMED unbearable to me. I had to make a choice and stick with it to be completely off them to re-evaluate my pain or percieved pain. I found that after a few weeks of being clean that I still had back pain and sciatic pain. But the beauty of it FOR ME was that it wasn't nearly as high a level as it was when I was in a constant state of iterim withdrawel. The choice for me was that my qualitiy of life was much better in a lessor state of chronic pain treated with Viox and/or high dosage of ibupropen than it was when I was chasing the "Dragon". I believe for ME the pain was multiplied ten-fold when I was abusing my meds. Only you yourselves can determine what is tolerable and what is the better choice for quality of daily existance. Pain is Pain! Pain is real. Each of us has our own threshold that we can or cannot live with. We each must do what is right for us. For me what is right is to be Opiate free at this stage in my life. I am a much happier man now then I was when my only thoughts and desires were to chase the "Dragon". I just couldn't know that for sure until I had become completely free of it's claws. Nobody knows what it's like unless they have walked in our shoes down the path of opiate bondage. Telby, you have made a big leap forward just getting up and moving today. Try to keep that goal and focus. It WILL get better as you progress. Butterbean, only you know in your heart of hearts what is the right answer for you. Taking meds as prescribed for the pain is something I have never been able to do. It has always been a mindset with me that if one is good then six is better. I know my limits of restraint. That comes with being totally HONEST with yourself.
J.B. my brother, I told you before and I'll tell you again now, if there was a way for me to take at least some of your pain and carry it for you I would, as I'm in a much better place now then I was not too long ago. I cannot take your physical pain from you, but know in your heart that I willingly would and if I can have at least some of your mental pain then please give it to me and know I am here for you. I offered you my e-mail address if you need it. That still stands....May all of you find Peace today as we get closer to Thanksgiving and our goals of Freedom.
Power & Magick 2 U all,
With much heart felt love,
WIZ

[Telby]

I am starting to regress I'm afraid, feeling very shakey and focusing my thoughts more on drugs.  I keep pulling myself out of that mind set but I am getting really anxous.  Some cabin fever for sure, I will be getting out of her in about an hour and I think that is going to help me.  I did manage to wash my hair and will take some time to make myself look presentable but I am coming apart.  I keep trying to remind myself tomorrow will be better if I don't fold up today and use somehow, I have no meds in my house of course but that does not mean I can't hook up.  I like to stay on line because no one can call me and if I can get myself together and get out of here I think the coast will be clearer.  A pill would take this feeling away but I would be right back at the beginning again and I want to see this through so bad.  IT's like a big part of me says that but there is this grinding somewhere else inside of me looking for dope.  I really believe I am hafe way home free I just have to hang tough and stay focused on getting all of the drugs and sickness behind me.  This should not be so hard, but I guess if it wasn't hard there would be no problem.  Whatever that means. Well I have to change my clothes and get ready so I will check in upon my return.  Yeah fun, love, Telby

[Telby]

You people with chronic pain are really hero's, It must be very difficult to stay drug free or healthy with drugs when you have something really wrong.  I give you tremendous credit, I walk around crying and all that is wrong with me is that I'm a drug addict who hasn't had any drugs in a couple days.  Living with pain everyday must be so hard and you must have a special reserve of strength.  Yes Thanksgiving is a good reason to keep going in the right direction.  The other night my mother asked me what I planned for Thanksgiving dinner and I looked at her like she was out of her mind, I couldn't imagine even thinking about that let alone doing it.  Now I must be somewhat better because I know I will do the holiday thing and it will be done with out being loaded this year or worse, being so sick I wear my bathrobe all day.  I let Christmas go so badly last year I think that was what got my attention that something was really wrong with me.  I had always been able to pull it together before but not in the past year, this stuff beat me down and I could not function at work or at home.  I will never be Donna Reed but I can do better then I've been doing and if I don't stay away from pills I will do worse.  Today I have to sit in a room with grown ups and do some buisiness, I was so worried about it yesterday because I felt so rough but I think I can pull this off today.  I have a few hours to get myself together which is time I need but I think I can make it today.  It is really important to remind myself about what I am doing and why I am doing it, I have to keep going forward away from the fog and the fear.  I don't want to loose my family, my job, myself and if I don't go all the way I will, I'm too old to bounce back so there is no choice.       Later, love - Telby

[butterbean]

Telby and J.B. sounds like you are determined like I am.  However, I have tremendous pain right now with my back and legs, and it makes me remember when 6 years ago I started taking pain meds and the relief it brought after almost 15 years in pain before that.  I wish I could take without abusing, but, I don't know if I can.  I am miserable with this pain, but, when I abuse vicodin, I am more miserable with myself.  Should I try to take the meds only when I have this pain, or should I stay clean of all narcotics???  That is a question I really need help with.  I just want some pain relief.  Take care and keep up the good work.  Telby you sound much better, I am proud of you and J.B.  We will see this through.
Love Butterbean

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Yes, keep moving ahead! Being inactive not only bores me but makes me do awful things as well. Inactivity is depressing.

I've got degenerative joint disease and peripheral neuropathy and some nerve damage in my spine. I dread nighttime because it seems to get worse(pain)the longer I remain in bed. If I keep moving and doing things, it's almost bearable. Maybe it's a mind over matter thing with me/us?

I haven't chewed any pills for two days and just went on about things as normal and everything seems to be fine. With Thanksgiving coming up in three days there's plenty to do and I don't want to be a Zombie when our guests arrive. I hope all of you are doing okay even though it's a Monday!

Take care,

J.B.

[Telby]

Well the new day has begun and although I am moving slow I seem to detect an ease in the sickness.  This guy who was my major source of oxi's went into detox last week and called me this morning.  He also feels like **** but we are determined to see it through.  I am going to go all the way this time, I know I won't feel worse then I do right now and I don't want to start over again.  I got my daughter up for school which is not easy nor pleasant and now as Wiz suggested I am going to try and stay up and at it all day.  Sleeping kills time but I always wake up feeling just awful, so I am going to keep moving.  If I can get through my responsibilities today it will be a victory so keep good thoughts for me and keep those prayers floating above. love Telby

[butterbean]

Just wanted to say hi before leaving for work.  I hurt in my legs so bad the last couple of nights.  I kept thinking is there anyway I can take my meds as perscribed.  I really wish I could because dealing with this pain is horrific.  I finally got to sleep about 1am after taking more iburophen.  Anyway, I am trying to hang in there.  Have a good day to all of you.
Butterbean

[Wizard]

Hey Kip, the days about over, you feeling better or did "on the verge" turn into full blown? Hope not for your sake...I hate being sick man.........I went and got my flu shot to ward off any bugs...stood in line for 2 lousy hours to get it too. Better work....I'll send the Wiz Dust your way with some good vibes my friend. I DID have a great weekend too!  Hey every one, if you like Wizards and magickal stories...GO SEE HARRY POTTER! It was way cool! especially if you read the book. For once they really followed it. You have a  good evening Bro!

Telby & Butterbean, the day is over and you get to look forward to taken another step down the path tomorrow. Remember one step at a time. Telby if your sneezing is settling down then I take that as a win! Try not to worry about stuff to far in advance. Just break it down to hours or even minutes if you have to. I remember even when I was "jonesing" if I showered and moved around even though I didn't want to, it DID help me feel a little better once I started. Not only that but it made the time go by quicker. Before you know it, another day is down and gone.
Keep up the hope and the praying. I know that got me through the hardest of times. I'll be keeping all of you in my thoughts and prayers as usual. Have a magickal evening tonight and think good thoughts.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wiz

[Telby]

With goo in my eyes and snot in my nose I did want to send my love and to tell you my thinking about your leg pain.  I think for awhile (like about 6 months) you and I (God willing) will have numerous pains - our pain and pleasure system is out of order because of the narcotics so when the drugs are gone and our brains figure it out for real, there is pain.  The challange of which I believe you are up to and the jury is still out on me is to tolerate the discomfort and not run back to the medication until you give your body time to get back to working order.  I am not a Doctor but I am a junkie and I know this stuff.  You remember cunning, baffling, and powerful, well add patient and multiply by 100 and you have this special class of the dragon. It will creep into our dreams and into our joints during the day but not forever (right Wiz?) and you will not have such a difficult transition because you are still more healthy then sick with this stuff.  I will be moaning and groaning for some time to come but if I can get that far I will be at peace which will be wonderful..  I just want you to keep doing what your doing and stay strong.  I learned a long time ago after heroin, methadone, percocet, percodone, dilaudid, and now oxicotin - the best pain medication is Advil for me.  The others go to the pain in the soul, Advil and Nuprin actually take my pain away.  This babbling is not to dismiss people with real pain issues - I just know it takes awhile to sort it all out.  For example as I sit here tonight I look and feel crippled and broken but no xrays would find what is wrong with me.  Only you wise souls know what ails me tonight.   Sleep well butterbean, this will be a great week for you.  I think I'll just mosey down to the bathroom on these inspirational notes, yuk but love to ya all - Telby