please help with suboxone

[mitch1970]

I am in transition from methadone to suboxone today. I am waiting for the WD's so I can take my first suboxone strip. I want to wait as long as possible and take as little as necessary... Where can I get advice on the internet? chat rooms? I am very eager to stop all opiate related meds. If I wanted to stop very soon and quick what are my options? I have a new doctor for the suboxone but I don't feel like I can burden him with all the questions I have. Thanks all!

[weaver71]

It sounds like your decision is working out for you. I hope you started some aftercare, like you had planned. Thanks for keeping us posted.

[quitinoxys]

To quote a great man Yogi "It ain't over till it's over" so keep your gaurd up!!!!!

[mitch1970]

I am on my second day of accelerated detox.  I have been methadone free for 7.5 days.  I had been on 30 mg for 7 months.

the naltrexone shots have not made me feel anything. the cocktail of drugs is perfect. they really have perfected this procedure!

Its not over but I am technically in the period where I should be feeling WD's and I feel nothing.

taking valium, clonidine, tramadol, naltrexone, vitamins, seroquel...

I am having full days!  thikikng of playing my team sport tomorrow, starting school...   amazing

[mitch1970]

feeling okay. I took 6 mg suboxone yesterday and then another 6mg today. Tomorrow I wont take any and Tuesday i will compete in the 2012 Olympic got-too-high dive.

I am brwosing the web for stories of people who have done the 8 day accelerated detox off methadone.

Know of any?

[atthebeach]

so glad you found your way. how are you feeling?

[mitch1970]

I am starting an 8 day detox this week! yay! It was a winding road but I think I found my way. Goodbye my dear good friend suboxone and methadone... NOT  lol

I will continue to share if anyone would like to hear about this new direction of mine.

So far you all have been an oasis on in this journey of horrors.

Thank you.

[mitch1970]

wow. I read my comments up to now and I can say for sure that I was all over the place. I am sure not taking my meds played a roll. And being insulted by my parents did not help. And not understanding my doctor was a burden. I have decided that the thrill of a higher dose when it is desired is proportional to fear of a higher dose when it is not wanted. I was in fear of too high a dose because of my plan to to taper.

I am at about 5 or 6 mg now. I am now researching tapering methods.

If my doctor resists approving my taper what should I do? Like
weaver71 I was told by my doctor I must be 6 months stable before tapering. I was thinking maybe 6 days.

[mitch1970]

I agree. I am eagerly looking for a plan. Right now i am trying to find a professional who can talk to me about this. Thanks everyone

[weaver71]

Also, I agree with IBKleen, you know approx the dose that makes you feel okay. Use your clear mind to form a plan and stick to it. No more decisions after that, just do what you think is right while your mind feels clear. I wanted to change my plan multiple times, but my wife said, "Just follow through to the end for a change." I did and am happy I did now.

[weaver71]

My doctor wanted me to take 8mg in the morning and 8mg in the evening. He told me I could taper whenever I felt ready. After induction, which I only took the 8mg in the morning, he said I had to stay on it 6 months at his discretion. That was the 2nd, more reliable, doctor I went to. He also forget he gave me a months supply and gave me another months worth a week later, after explaining how he kept strict track of every pill he administered. I don't think he is a bad doctor, I think he has too many patients to keep track. Opiates are an epidemic world wide after all.

I think you are over thinking for sure, but so did I. It's an important transition that effects the rest of your life. "Doing the best you," that's the only thing anyone can expect.

[mitch1970]

the only control I have been applying to my program is to not take any more than I need. Which is exactly what the doctor said. Only I know that answer. He seems to change his story a bit though, or contradict himself, on occasion. So I am just doing the best I can. At our first meeting he was very clear about sticking to 4mg a day if that would hold me but to be prepared to take 8mg/day if necessary.

Its hard not to overthink this. thanks for your input.

[IBKleen]

On vacation huh? LOL No hun, he is not far away.

The reason I said what I said is I don't see you following any plan. Either the doctor is contradicting himself or you didn't hear him right. Not all Suboxone doctors are in it to help people. Some are in it for the quick buck and I really hope your doctor isn't one of them.

Anyway, I still feel that taking it willy-nilly is dangerous. YOU being in control like this is dangerous. Addiction is so much a mental game--far more than physical and that is what people don't get. There is where my concern is. And it has nothing to do with taking a higher dose because it won't make you feel good. That is one good thing about it.

I am sorry hun but I cannot comment on what dose to take or anything of that nature.

[mitch1970]

I am sorry IBKleen I did not understand your comment. Or maybe I am misunderstood. I took the meds today exactly as the doctor said, as best as I could. It didnt go smoothly by accident.  Needless to say I am on a dose that's low. I have been told be everyone you dont want to take a dose higher than needed, incl the doctor.  

Today the doctor seemed to rush me off the phone. He congratulated my low dose then said go higher...  I think...  I honestly do not really understand what he saying sometimes. But doesn't common sense still apply?

I am not sure what behavior of mine is "addict" right now.

I am seeking help from everyone. I am trying to follow directions. I am trying to get off suboxone, not today but...  I am trying to start my does as low as possible to be in a good place to taper or whatever.

lowest dose necessary / bearable...  that is the general rule of thumb right?

My drug seeking side of me would think highest dose allowed, feel good! But he's not around. I sent him on a long vacation.

[IBKleen]

There is no way to tell how much you took. It got stuck on your finger, you spit it out, etc. Heck, if you don't know then I surely don't know either.

I just need to comment about something. It is not the drugs that define us as addicts. It is our behavior. What you are still doing is self-medicating. You need to get a schedule or a plan with the Suboxone. If you are trying to avoid the withdrawal with it then you are on dangerous ground.

I know I keep repeating myself but I still think you need to talk with your doctor and get honest.

[mitch1970]

I called my doctor and tried to explain my unkown dosage and he still says  that I need to take 4mg later and then twice daily (8mg/day)

I took around 2mg or less this morning and feel okay. Why is he so anxious to put me at a higher dose? I worked so hard to get this far. He had at one point said not to take more than my body needed. ie: the lowest dose necessary...

I can't talk to my doctor. I cant talk to my parents (see post above) My best friend who I often confide in has been to busy to talk, only a few minutes this morning...

guys, gals,

This is my only place!!!   Please help!

[mitch1970]

Just to remind everyone I am new to suboxone and now have a private doctor so I have some control over what I take.

That is where I need advice. A lot has been left up to me because it's about how I feel.

thanks!

[mitch1970]

Thank you everyone.

update:

Earlier while in bed I got leg cramps at 5am and at 530am opened the suboxone. I was tired and didn't do a good job at my first dosing. The strip was smaller and harder to control then I hoped. I tore off what may have been about 3mg then when I tried to put it under my tongue it didn't want to leave the finger. I even missed the target a few times by rubbing it on gums. I ended leaving my finger under my tongue or somewhere pressed against the underpart of my mouth and kept my mouth closed for a while. I spit out the sailva that accumulated into a bottle, not sure why, maybe fearing that the meds were still in my spit.

It worked. I feel okay. bit tired but I have lost sleep. I may be a very low dose so I hope it is mission accomplished. I will call my doctor now.

I need to figure out what dose I am on and if I am stable on it.  

Any suggestions? My doctor is triiger happy with dosing so I need some advice. I do not want to over medicate since I may be tapering very soon. Kinda excited about that.

How can I figure out what I am on 1 2 or 3 mg? Just wait and take a measured 1 mg and see how I feel? and then go up if needed?

Thanks!!!!

[clean_in_ks]

I didn't go from methadone to suboxone but from 20-25 lortabls/10 somas a day to cutting back on my own, but increasing my anti-depressant and med for nerve damage called gabapentin.  I was taking those about every hr whenever I wanted opiates and was a mess by the time I was introduced to suboxone.  

I was torn about taking the sub, too.  But, I decided to try it and if I didn't like the way I felt quit taking it so I wouldn't have to w/d from that next.

I am 56 days clean and 28 days off suboxone.  I knew absolutely nothing about suboxone when I was introduced to it and was worried that I was still considered "using".  The film I saw at aftercare said sub has a controlled ceiling on it so I didn't have to worry about taking too much.  The Drs on the film said it was designed and mfrd that way since most addicts take more and more and more.  I'm not giving advise, here.  Just passing on what I learned.  Maybe you can gain access to a video on suboxone and the pharmaceutical co. that is getting rich helping us addicts! ha!

I truly thought I needed the help of suboxone and took it after I had been weaning off the opiates.  Just didn't like how I felt so decided at that point to quit taking it.  Guess you could just take life one day or a half a day at a time and decide when the time comes.

I truly wish you the best.

[weaver71]

Sorry to hear you lost some support, but you still have the forum. I'm glad you said it's all about you. The truth is you have to do it for you. Good relationships are a gift of taking care of you and your addiction. I know it must be hard, but I think you have this thing. You can't afford the anxiety right now, so I think you're right to give yourself some space. NA/AA has the people who have been there and will support you, as you know. Good luck, and keep us posted.

[mitch1970]

Hey, checking in. Thanks for the good words. I will probably take my sub around 5 or 6 in the morning after doing my COWS check. Never thought I would hope for WD's!!!  I hope that first does will help me sleep in! I am needing some sleep! and I am getting skinny fast!  i need 3000+ calories a day and all I have had is some yogurt and oatmeal.

COWS are still lingering near 10 or 12, maybe 13. I feel like crap though. I am exhausted. Thats not on COWS though. In 4.5 hours it will be 530am which is the 72 hour mark, yay!  I never thought i would do this but i am going to bed, with the sub strips nearby.

I have taken vitamins, protein, metamucil, b12, ibuprofen, 1 mg clonazepam (prescribed) and my only fear is that I may get hungry after I lie down since I have not been eating enough. I have a HUGE metabolism with a resting heart rate of 43. Does that mean 80 bpm is 63 bpm for me?

I had an awful long day talking to my parents. They originally were okay with things and offered to help me in many ways but then things got weird. They began bashing maintenance medication and telling me I was using and very much an addict in denial. it was very bad. I did my best to explain that it was not a good time to talk about my life that way. ( 50 hours without methadone!)  anyway I play soccer 2 hours every day, I am a deans list student making all A's. Life could not be better. i do wonder if i could have found a better way to solve a pill problem 7 months ago but I panicked back in January, I was scared, the percs, pills, snorting heroin got out of control in a few weeks and I needed to get my life on track or cause problems in school. Maintenance medication was amazing! Very curative, no more anxiety, sleeping like a rock, waking up early, athletic and studious like and olympian/scholar. I told them all of this and yet they are changing there view of me.  i think they think i am lying. They keep looking surprised when i say I have the prescribed meds and i am waiting to take them!  i feel I need to back away from my 2 best supporters. They dont understand anything. So I have a little phase to get through when I taper to zero. Not a big deal.  argghhh.  I got so stressed and pissed that they would not pull their punches when i was going through induction. It was a precipitated parent withdraw. I got so stressed it turned to acute panic anxiety and then hot heavy feeling.

note to self:  BE IN GOOD PLACE WHEN NOT IN GOOD WAY, and stay away from people who arent 100% supportive and positive.

I will call some friend borrow the money they promised to help with and simply let them learn about this on their own and when they decide to handle this better i will listen to what they have to say, assuming I am ready to listen.yep. Its all about me right now

thanks weaver,
pitbullmom, and
IBKleen

[weaver71]

I agree with pitbullmom, sleep and enjoy it, eat and enjoy it, go for a walk and enjoy it. If you can keep your possitive attitude, you will make it. You may have something ahead, about day 5, but don't think about that, just enjoy what you have today and see what happens. You have done your research, just relax into the plan and stick to it.

[pitbullmom]

hey mitch. u seem to b doing ok with out the sub however i think there may b something  ahead do to meth half life  dont take the sub unless you need it then take the least amount to help your symptoms. you r over thinking this trust me when u need the sub u will kno. if i were u i would enjoy feeling good and stop worrying if it gets bad  u kno what to do

[IBKleen]

Now you want us to complete an algebraic equation? LOL Again, very individual.

Sorry this community couldn't help you more with these questions but the guidelines are in place for your protection.

Hang in there Mitch. I am sure you will get to the other side no matter what you choose.

[mitch1970]

Thank you. My call, my individuality, that is the bottom line, you are absolutely correct.

I have formulated my question to seek an answer based on a model:

If now or soon I will need x amount of suboxone to feel okay AND if, as everyone agrees, I wait long enough I will need zero suboxone to feel well then what does the graph look like in between?

ie: If I plot an X Y graph, time being X and Y being "needed amount of suboxone"

How does the curve of the graph look?  Is it a steady decrease or a quick drop at the end? Seems it would be a steady decrease and, therefore, I should be able to take a lower dose if I wait longer. I can understand why a doctor would not get into this with me. And I can see how it may be out of bounds for this forum (if not over heads, sorry) but if anyone out there agrees with me then a simple thumbs up will do!

I will stay in touch.  Oh yeah!  I took a shower this morning and looked in the mirror and liked who I saw!  That didn't happen ever on methadone!