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Can AI meds cause depression?
I have also posted over in depression forum. I quit Zoloft after ten years, and suddenly felt fantastic. Within a month or two, I wound up with Adrenal Insufficiency and was given Hydrocortisone. While I am sure I needed it, the amount was too strong, so I cut back on it a little. Then I became VERY depressed, worst in my life! Was the return to depression from the new medicine? Anyone have experience with this problem? PLEASE answer me ASAP, I only have a half-hour. I CAN come back tomorrow, but I was hoping to hear Something. Each day is a nightmare. HELP!
AND to Rumpled.
Sorry, Red Star, Xmas and New Year got in the way. ALSO, I FINALLY had to call those endo docs a few weeks after seeing them. I was feeling just AWFUL again, had not taken any adrenal meds nor Zoloft (antidepressant) since step-down first of Nov, then NO drugs since Thanksgiving. Wellll, about very end of December, I really started to lose it emotionally and physically. I felt very cold, unhappy, legs felt like they weighed 1,000 pounds... just in general a total mess.
Well, when I called them back, I asked for some medicines, but would prefer my old stuff since I was used to it, that I didn't want to go thru switches of meds again. But they would not and insisted I take Dexamethasone (same sort of drug), so I agreed and they called it in. For three days, I've taken just half of their dose of 0.5, adding in a bit of Zoloft. Keeping in mind the ratio of the Hydrocort and Dexameth was about right, 25mg and .5 respectively.
It's been three nights of taking it, along with a bit of Zoloft, and I THINK I am gradually feeling better, a little happier, legs aren't heavy, but am dizzy and teary. I figure the Zoloft has to build back up again. And I figure the dizzy thing is from the new drug, but am hoping I will do better soon.
Any tips, thoughts? So far I don't think I've made a mistake. And while my last thyroid test in fall was normal, it was high in winter. I cannot understand the seemingly oppositeness (feeling dizzy after new meds when I had never felt like that before, and having high/low thyroid, and feeling the worst depression of my life after six months on straight adrenal meds). Well, I'll put another report in a month, other than to reply to you all. THANKS SO MUCH. Gail
Sorry, Red Star, Xmas and New Year got in the way. ALSO, I FINALLY had to call those endo docs a few weeks after seeing them. I was feeling just AWFUL again, had not taken any adrenal meds nor Zoloft (antidepressant) since step-down first of Nov, then NO drugs since Thanksgiving. Wellll, about very end of December, I really started to lose it emotionally and physically. I felt very cold, unhappy, legs felt like they weighed 1,000 pounds... just in general a total mess.
Well, when I called them back, I asked for some medicines, but would prefer my old stuff since I was used to it, that I didn't want to go thru switches of meds again. But they would not and insisted I take Dexamethasone (same sort of drug), so I agreed and they called it in. For three days, I've taken just half of their dose of 0.5, adding in a bit of Zoloft. Keeping in mind the ratio of the Hydrocort and Dexameth was about right, 25mg and .5 respectively.
It's been three nights of taking it, along with a bit of Zoloft, and I THINK I am gradually feeling better, a little happier, legs aren't heavy, but am dizzy and teary. I figure the Zoloft has to build back up again. And I figure the dizzy thing is from the new drug, but am hoping I will do better soon.
Any tips, thoughts? So far I don't think I've made a mistake. And while my last thyroid test in fall was normal, it was high in winter. I cannot understand the seemingly oppositeness (feeling dizzy after new meds when I had never felt like that before, and having high/low thyroid, and feeling the worst depression of my life after six months on straight adrenal meds). Well, I'll put another report in a month, other than to reply to you all. THANKS SO MUCH. Gail
I just found your note. :) Your cortisol looks low although you would have to check the lab ranges to confirm. Mayo clinic reference ranges for cortisol: 5-25 mcg/dL (a.m.). 2-14 mcg/dL (p.m.).
This is the third time I've lost what I've written here. SIGH. One more time and I'll quit until tomorrow. They drew blood out of my arm, cortisol serum pm, and amongst a dozen numbers, my cortisol was >0.5 mcg/dL (I think) and I had read 2 or 3 was the lowest it should go. This was the exact same number as last time, which I now have access to that labwork, too, thru this portal thing. But all the other numbers were different from last time, but normal like last time.
My nurse called, said my adrenals were so low as to be imperceptible, and my thyroid was very high. I told her I had just had my thyroid tested a few months ago and it was fine. I also told her it may be a function of my history of thyroiditis, only this time perhaps a very mild form. She wanted me to take a couple low-dose meds, and I refused, which she knew I would.
She said the PT would want to talk to me about what would happen if this got worse, and I told her I would go into a coma and die, but I COULD arrange to have an invitation sent for my burial service. We both laughed all over the place. You see, I feel fine. But I felt death all around me when I took their medicine before.
Any feedback you can give me would be appreciated, and if you want more numbers, just ask, and I'll pull up the portal and give them to you. I didn't think you'd want them all just now. Until later, Gail
My nurse called, said my adrenals were so low as to be imperceptible, and my thyroid was very high. I told her I had just had my thyroid tested a few months ago and it was fine. I also told her it may be a function of my history of thyroiditis, only this time perhaps a very mild form. She wanted me to take a couple low-dose meds, and I refused, which she knew I would.
She said the PT would want to talk to me about what would happen if this got worse, and I told her I would go into a coma and die, but I COULD arrange to have an invitation sent for my burial service. We both laughed all over the place. You see, I feel fine. But I felt death all around me when I took their medicine before.
Any feedback you can give me would be appreciated, and if you want more numbers, just ask, and I'll pull up the portal and give them to you. I didn't think you'd want them all just now. Until later, Gail
Hello there Red!
Whenever I get around to going to my portal for my endocrinology doc stuff, I'll let you know what I find out. I cannot recall what time I went in last time, but I think it was late morning or early afternoon. This time I went in at the end of the afternoon. But they'll match up the time to what the results are, I imagine. Until next time...
Gail
Whenever I get around to going to my portal for my endocrinology doc stuff, I'll let you know what I find out. I cannot recall what time I went in last time, but I think it was late morning or early afternoon. This time I went in at the end of the afternoon. But they'll match up the time to what the results are, I imagine. Until next time...
Gail
Weird computer stuff lol. I always know what labs I'm having done as I have to hand in the paperwork to the nurse. :) Sounds like cortisol serum was tested. The time of day will have a different lab reference range since cortisol levels are highest in the morning. Feeling better is a good sign. :P
Hi Red Star!!!
I don't know why the forum says the above post was one minute ago. It's been 24 hours! Anyway, I went to my endocrinologist place yesterday!
I did my very best to be nice to everyone. The nurse who saw me yesterday was diff from the first one, who was not very nice. This nurse was caught up on what meds I was on. For example, I used to be on a thyroid medicine, which I stopped in the spring, and yet my most recent bloodwork from my primarcy doc said I had a normal thyroid. Anyway, I told her about my stepdown for one month from one tablet of hydrocortisone, to zero for the last week, and also slowly adding back in 1/3 of the Zoloft I used to be on last spring. She asked me a series of questions, which were symptoms of adrenal insufficiency, and I answered "no" to each. She said something about a test for my cortisol. Finally, like last time, a nurse took some blood from my arm. That was it!
I was SO glad to get out of there. They told me they would contact me by calling me and by emailing me, when they determined if I was still in need of adrenal medication.
So, Red Star, I want to ask you something about the cortisol bit. What test do you suppose they were taking? Is it fairly accurate? Should it come up as "normal" as compared to the last test, assuming I have no adrenal issues? I did not ask for last time's labwork, I forgot, but I did ask at the desk if I could get a copy of it online, and they said yes (they had given me a paper to fill out so they could send me an email that will connect me up to my own online portal to my info, where I can ask for it).
Any tips you can give me will be helpful. You have no idea how relieved I am that the visit to that doc is over with, altho I was ready for it, telling myself to make it a point to be kind to everyone, because the Lord God Almighty sent me two different discussions about how to handle a problem, and also because I knew I wasn't going to take any of their meds no matter what, I felt pretty good when I went in.
Thank you, Red Star, for helping me out with all this!!! Gail
I don't know why the forum says the above post was one minute ago. It's been 24 hours! Anyway, I went to my endocrinologist place yesterday!
I did my very best to be nice to everyone. The nurse who saw me yesterday was diff from the first one, who was not very nice. This nurse was caught up on what meds I was on. For example, I used to be on a thyroid medicine, which I stopped in the spring, and yet my most recent bloodwork from my primarcy doc said I had a normal thyroid. Anyway, I told her about my stepdown for one month from one tablet of hydrocortisone, to zero for the last week, and also slowly adding back in 1/3 of the Zoloft I used to be on last spring. She asked me a series of questions, which were symptoms of adrenal insufficiency, and I answered "no" to each. She said something about a test for my cortisol. Finally, like last time, a nurse took some blood from my arm. That was it!
I was SO glad to get out of there. They told me they would contact me by calling me and by emailing me, when they determined if I was still in need of adrenal medication.
So, Red Star, I want to ask you something about the cortisol bit. What test do you suppose they were taking? Is it fairly accurate? Should it come up as "normal" as compared to the last test, assuming I have no adrenal issues? I did not ask for last time's labwork, I forgot, but I did ask at the desk if I could get a copy of it online, and they said yes (they had given me a paper to fill out so they could send me an email that will connect me up to my own online portal to my info, where I can ask for it).
Any tips you can give me will be helpful. You have no idea how relieved I am that the visit to that doc is over with, altho I was ready for it, telling myself to make it a point to be kind to everyone, because the Lord God Almighty sent me two different discussions about how to handle a problem, and also because I knew I wasn't going to take any of their meds no matter what, I felt pretty good when I went in.
Thank you, Red Star, for helping me out with all this!!! Gail
Hello Red Star!
Well, it's the day before my visit to the endocrinologists who diagnosed adrenal insufficiency and gave me the hydrocortisone and fludrocortisone. On Thanksgiving Day, the Thursday before the Thursday appointment tomorrow, I stopped the last step-down of hydrocortisone (quit fludro back in October), and I FEEL FINE. This proves that medicine was bothering me, putting me into a severe depression. I still take 100mg split in half, so 2x daily, of my antidepressant Zoloft. I do not think that low a dose is how come I feel better, but I am going to keep taking that, just in case.
In any case, I do not think the Zoloft is what stopped the depression because while that reduced dose has been the same, it was when I gradually reduced the hydrocortisone that I kept feeling better and better. And even tho I am not taking that hydro, just yesterday I did a lot of things around the house in preparation of a plumber coming, going outside to open some gates to the basement from the house (we have dogs), cleaning around the faucets being changed out, and in general staying up and about all day, and I did not feel overly tired or any adrenal insufficiency-type symptoms.
So, as I've said, I'll post in the next few days about how my visit to the endocrinology people, and no matter what they say, I will not take their medicines. This reassures me about going to the doctor... usually I get rather nervous, but not this time.
Until next time, Gail
Well, it's the day before my visit to the endocrinologists who diagnosed adrenal insufficiency and gave me the hydrocortisone and fludrocortisone. On Thanksgiving Day, the Thursday before the Thursday appointment tomorrow, I stopped the last step-down of hydrocortisone (quit fludro back in October), and I FEEL FINE. This proves that medicine was bothering me, putting me into a severe depression. I still take 100mg split in half, so 2x daily, of my antidepressant Zoloft. I do not think that low a dose is how come I feel better, but I am going to keep taking that, just in case.
In any case, I do not think the Zoloft is what stopped the depression because while that reduced dose has been the same, it was when I gradually reduced the hydrocortisone that I kept feeling better and better. And even tho I am not taking that hydro, just yesterday I did a lot of things around the house in preparation of a plumber coming, going outside to open some gates to the basement from the house (we have dogs), cleaning around the faucets being changed out, and in general staying up and about all day, and I did not feel overly tired or any adrenal insufficiency-type symptoms.
So, as I've said, I'll post in the next few days about how my visit to the endocrinology people, and no matter what they say, I will not take their medicines. This reassures me about going to the doctor... usually I get rather nervous, but not this time.
Until next time, Gail
Hi again Red Star!
Thank you so much for clarifying that for me. I believe mine is primary adrenal insufficiency (if I have it). When I go see those same endo people again first week of December, I will ask them for my labs from last time, and again for this time, assuming they will test me again. SIGH. Seems like I wasn't there very long last time, so hopefully it will go quickly this time and they won't do some of the longer tests. They may reschedule me for those, however. I don't want to go to them, as they did not help me when I asked, when I realized something was wrong with the drug. I can't help but think they either mixed up my test with someone else's or they did a quickie type test that is not as for-sure as other more involved tests. Well, thank you again, Red Star. You have been a very big help to me. I'll come back after my doc visit in December and let you and others know what the results were. Here's hoping they realize they made a mistake or let me stay on the 5mg or SOMEthing besides what they originally prescribed. GG
Thank you so much for clarifying that for me. I believe mine is primary adrenal insufficiency (if I have it). When I go see those same endo people again first week of December, I will ask them for my labs from last time, and again for this time, assuming they will test me again. SIGH. Seems like I wasn't there very long last time, so hopefully it will go quickly this time and they won't do some of the longer tests. They may reschedule me for those, however. I don't want to go to them, as they did not help me when I asked, when I realized something was wrong with the drug. I can't help but think they either mixed up my test with someone else's or they did a quickie type test that is not as for-sure as other more involved tests. Well, thank you again, Red Star. You have been a very big help to me. I'll come back after my doc visit in December and let you and others know what the results were. Here's hoping they realize they made a mistake or let me stay on the 5mg or SOMEthing besides what they originally prescribed. GG
No problem. :)
Primary adrenal insufficiency is to do with impaired adrenal glands. Secondary adrenal insufficiency is an impaired pituitary gland or hypothalamus.
You had no symptoms? O_o Request a copy of your lab work so you can see what is going on and what tests have been done. The pathology notes are helpful as well.
Primary adrenal insufficiency is to do with impaired adrenal glands. Secondary adrenal insufficiency is an impaired pituitary gland or hypothalamus.
You had no symptoms? O_o Request a copy of your lab work so you can see what is going on and what tests have been done. The pathology notes are helpful as well.
Hi Red Star! I am going to copy your info above and keep it in my pocketbook when I go see those endo people, in case they do a test. May I ask you a question? What is the difference between primary adrenal insuff and secondary? I probably read it somewhere and have forgotten, so sorry to bother you. By the by, I am still doing VERY well with 5mg hydrocortisone and 100mg Zoloft (divided in half, 2x daily). I hope those endo docs agree, and I would TRY going to 10mg for a short while to see what happens, and if it bothers me, then I'd add in yet another 1/2 pill of Zoloft (I normally was taking 2 to 3 pills per day), just to see if that matters. Could be with enough Zoloft, I could take even more hydro meds, if they really insist I need more. But obviously if extra Zoloft doesn't help, I'll HAVE to go back down to 5mg hydro drug. I'll also ask them about taking licorice instead, if they don't have a non-hydrocortisone drug, which I mention licorice again in a diff post in this community.
The thing of all this is, I had NO symptoms of any adrenal problem before I went to the endo people, and I simply cannot remember how come I wound up there, but something must have shown up on some bloodwork my primary doc did. I have a big list of stuff they tested... do you know how I might find the cortisol and/or the ACTH on my list, if it's even there? I mean, do they go by some other sort of abbreviation or name? I know what the ACTH stands for, and that wasn't in the list.
Thanks so much for your information. You help a lot of people on this board, and I certainly thank you SO much for responding to me! GG
The thing of all this is, I had NO symptoms of any adrenal problem before I went to the endo people, and I simply cannot remember how come I wound up there, but something must have shown up on some bloodwork my primary doc did. I have a big list of stuff they tested... do you know how I might find the cortisol and/or the ACTH on my list, if it's even there? I mean, do they go by some other sort of abbreviation or name? I know what the ACTH stands for, and that wasn't in the list.
Thanks so much for your information. You help a lot of people on this board, and I certainly thank you SO much for responding to me! GG
Hi Red Star and other Readers,
Well, I saw my doc, and he asked me to get an appointment with the doc again who gave me the adrenal medicines. This is despite them not wanting to work with me on what was obviously too big a dose of hydrocortisone last spring. So, I made an appointment for the first part of December. My plan with the endo people is to be as polite as possible and ask for a new test for adrenal insuff and also to give me a milder medicine with less side effects, as the drug has made me so very depressed that I can barely function. We shall see what happens.
By the way, I am now down to 1/4 a tablet per day of my hydrocortisone and upped my antidepressant to 1/2 pill in the morning and another 1/2 in the evening. As a result, I have felt almost normal for a couple days now. This PROVES medication is what is wrong with me, and this reassures me quite a bit. I mean, could be just getting back on the antidepressant is what fixed me, but I really think it's the hydrocortisone for my adrenals that drove me nuts. In any case, by getting that dose WAY down and staying there, unless I begin to feel strange by not having enough adrenal replacement in my system, the re-test they do will be real close to accurate. I'd go all the way off, but if I really do have an adrenal problem, I could actually pass out, go into a coma, and die. Ye gads. Nobody in our family ever had this problem, and I live a normal life, so I just cannot understand how this could happen.
Another thing that I think is true about medicines is, last winter I was hospitalized twice, and for about four months before that, they had put me on an anti-psychotic drug (which I did NOT need), and gradually I felt worse and worse. So, in that case, I think that medicine was to blame for my hospital times. I really think docs need to be VERY sure a person needs a particular medicine before they go and hand it out to people. And on top of that, I think we, as patients, need to monitor how we feel with drugs we are given, and if it doesn't feel right, INSIST on a new appointment to change a drug, or ask to stop it, or to re-test for the need of it.
Thanks all for listening, and I'll try to check in about once a week to respond to anyone who wants to talk about all this, and of course I'll definitely come back after I see the endocrinology people first week of December, I think it's on a Thursday, so will probably visit here over that weekend.
GG
Well, I saw my doc, and he asked me to get an appointment with the doc again who gave me the adrenal medicines. This is despite them not wanting to work with me on what was obviously too big a dose of hydrocortisone last spring. So, I made an appointment for the first part of December. My plan with the endo people is to be as polite as possible and ask for a new test for adrenal insuff and also to give me a milder medicine with less side effects, as the drug has made me so very depressed that I can barely function. We shall see what happens.
By the way, I am now down to 1/4 a tablet per day of my hydrocortisone and upped my antidepressant to 1/2 pill in the morning and another 1/2 in the evening. As a result, I have felt almost normal for a couple days now. This PROVES medication is what is wrong with me, and this reassures me quite a bit. I mean, could be just getting back on the antidepressant is what fixed me, but I really think it's the hydrocortisone for my adrenals that drove me nuts. In any case, by getting that dose WAY down and staying there, unless I begin to feel strange by not having enough adrenal replacement in my system, the re-test they do will be real close to accurate. I'd go all the way off, but if I really do have an adrenal problem, I could actually pass out, go into a coma, and die. Ye gads. Nobody in our family ever had this problem, and I live a normal life, so I just cannot understand how this could happen.
Another thing that I think is true about medicines is, last winter I was hospitalized twice, and for about four months before that, they had put me on an anti-psychotic drug (which I did NOT need), and gradually I felt worse and worse. So, in that case, I think that medicine was to blame for my hospital times. I really think docs need to be VERY sure a person needs a particular medicine before they go and hand it out to people. And on top of that, I think we, as patients, need to monitor how we feel with drugs we are given, and if it doesn't feel right, INSIST on a new appointment to change a drug, or ask to stop it, or to re-test for the need of it.
Thanks all for listening, and I'll try to check in about once a week to respond to anyone who wants to talk about all this, and of course I'll definitely come back after I see the endocrinology people first week of December, I think it's on a Thursday, so will probably visit here over that weekend.
GG
Hi Red Star! I live in the U.S. I gather you used to live elsewhere, but I think Australia is an interesting place, especially all the coastal areas, the Great Barrier Reef, and the delightful accents!
I've now been on half of my hydrocortisone for my adrenal insufficiency and a small amount of antidepressant Zoloft for one week, approximately. I have not gotten any better, but I'm not worse, either. But I STILL have terrible depression, altho I'm not crying as much, but I still feel very sad, hopeless, like I'm in a living nightmare, confusion, loss of focus, trouble sleeping through the night, and being quite frightened by this whole episode.
I have pretty much decided that it is the medication causing this problem, and I think it COULD be my adrenal numbers were off, not because of adrenal insufficiency, but rather because of an increase in my back pain from my car wreck that perhaps created a lot of stress, which I assume would have drained my adrenal levels. I imagine my doctor will refer me to another endocrinologist, or could be he can do the bloodwork. He has tested my thyroid, and it is fine (he did the involved test). I took a letter to him end of last week, explaining all the details of my situation, so he'll be ready to help me when I visit Tuesday.
He has done bloodwork before, but I don't know if adrenal hormones were part of it. I'll find out when I see him this week. I have the papers, but I can't tell what some of the letters and such mean. But as I said, could be since my back was bothering me a lot this past fall, and also my winter hospital visits were filled with too little of my regular meds and too much of other drugs that I didn't need, that I was stressed to the max, thus the perhaps incorrect AI diagnosis.
I really appreciate it, Red Star, that you said I may not have to be on the AI meds for life, and I'll let you know what I find out when I do. Could be I may have to wait awhile to see another endo before I'll know the whole story, if I even have to take the corrective medicine to begin with.
And of course I have since done some reading on this subject, and turns out, a few years ago, another MedHelp member posted about having depression associated with her adrenal insufficiency meds. I also read in one or two drug-type explanations that depression can develop or worsen from hydrocortisone (or steroid meds, same thing, I think).
Thank you so much for "holding my hand" while I've been struggling with all this. It has been a living nightmare. I will MOST DEFINITELY come back here as I find out new things from anything my doc comes up with, and then any new things another endo doc may decide, that I may be referred to down the road, which may take as much as a month. Gosh, HOW will I manage that long? I did read in that MedHelp member's post that a medicine called Soma helped her. I'll be looking it up and asking my doc about it. Apparently it also helps depression.
GG
I've now been on half of my hydrocortisone for my adrenal insufficiency and a small amount of antidepressant Zoloft for one week, approximately. I have not gotten any better, but I'm not worse, either. But I STILL have terrible depression, altho I'm not crying as much, but I still feel very sad, hopeless, like I'm in a living nightmare, confusion, loss of focus, trouble sleeping through the night, and being quite frightened by this whole episode.
I have pretty much decided that it is the medication causing this problem, and I think it COULD be my adrenal numbers were off, not because of adrenal insufficiency, but rather because of an increase in my back pain from my car wreck that perhaps created a lot of stress, which I assume would have drained my adrenal levels. I imagine my doctor will refer me to another endocrinologist, or could be he can do the bloodwork. He has tested my thyroid, and it is fine (he did the involved test). I took a letter to him end of last week, explaining all the details of my situation, so he'll be ready to help me when I visit Tuesday.
He has done bloodwork before, but I don't know if adrenal hormones were part of it. I'll find out when I see him this week. I have the papers, but I can't tell what some of the letters and such mean. But as I said, could be since my back was bothering me a lot this past fall, and also my winter hospital visits were filled with too little of my regular meds and too much of other drugs that I didn't need, that I was stressed to the max, thus the perhaps incorrect AI diagnosis.
I really appreciate it, Red Star, that you said I may not have to be on the AI meds for life, and I'll let you know what I find out when I do. Could be I may have to wait awhile to see another endo before I'll know the whole story, if I even have to take the corrective medicine to begin with.
And of course I have since done some reading on this subject, and turns out, a few years ago, another MedHelp member posted about having depression associated with her adrenal insufficiency meds. I also read in one or two drug-type explanations that depression can develop or worsen from hydrocortisone (or steroid meds, same thing, I think).
Thank you so much for "holding my hand" while I've been struggling with all this. It has been a living nightmare. I will MOST DEFINITELY come back here as I find out new things from anything my doc comes up with, and then any new things another endo doc may decide, that I may be referred to down the road, which may take as much as a month. Gosh, HOW will I manage that long? I did read in that MedHelp member's post that a medicine called Soma helped her. I'll be looking it up and asking my doc about it. Apparently it also helps depression.
GG
I've had a long list of medical conditions (many on that list above) but in particular my severe depression was due to vitamin B12 malabsorption due to autoimmune pernicious anaemia in my case. Once you have suicidal thoughts your serotonin is seriously low! My mother's cause of severe depression was due to insufficient stomach acid causing malabsorption and was made even worse taking nexium (acid blocker).
There is a symptom that is unique to hypothyroidism called myxedema. There is a demo on youtube you might be interested in: Hypothyroidism Type 2: Myxedema Symptoms.
Unless you have Addison's disease, I would think you shouldn't need to be on adrenal medications all your life. I taxed my adrenals due to chronic undiagnosed hypothyroidism but I had serious adrenal insufficiency with severe vitamin B12 deficiency, two month severe hyperthyroidism, 6 months severe mental and physically stressful job.
My pupils would fluctuate in the light so fast it was less than a second! And when I dragged the top of a pen lightly across my belly the skin turned bright white then spread over 2 inches. I was in a bad way~! It took 18 months to get over naturally after my worst bout.
I live in Australia btw. :)
There is a symptom that is unique to hypothyroidism called myxedema. There is a demo on youtube you might be interested in: Hypothyroidism Type 2: Myxedema Symptoms.
Unless you have Addison's disease, I would think you shouldn't need to be on adrenal medications all your life. I taxed my adrenals due to chronic undiagnosed hypothyroidism but I had serious adrenal insufficiency with severe vitamin B12 deficiency, two month severe hyperthyroidism, 6 months severe mental and physically stressful job.
My pupils would fluctuate in the light so fast it was less than a second! And when I dragged the top of a pen lightly across my belly the skin turned bright white then spread over 2 inches. I was in a bad way~! It took 18 months to get over naturally after my worst bout.
I live in Australia btw. :)
By the way, Red Star, I didn't mean to ignore your very good list of possible causes of low serotonin (causing depression). I think they are very helpful to me, in trying to discover why I have been depressed IN GENERAL for about 15 years.
Medications was listed, and the first time I took Zoloft was when I was on Klonopin (a tranquilizer for Panic Disorder), it made me feel sad, so they put me on that Zoloft, to not only fight that, but also to help with the Panic. Well, I DO think I'm one of those people who wind up even sicker than before, that is more depressed, by taking an antidepressant, the very thing that is supposed to help with that.
Another few things you listed DO apply to me, as I went through the "change" about the time I was put on Zoloft, which would be: Hormone imbalance, and since my estrogen, etc., was off more than ten years ago, NOW I'm also dealing with a possible adrenal/thyroid problem. But as for the latter, I once had "thyroiditis," which "itis" does indeed suggest what it means, that my thyroid began to overproduce from irritability (probably to make up for estrogen, etc., levels dropping?).
Sure enough, I had a really great doc at the time, and he put me on some sort of mild but very pleasant drug (I'd have to look it up, but it was a beta blocker). And for about four months, once I hit a certain number, he stopped those, which I really hated to let that drug go, but of course I did. All my numbers for thyroid returned to normal.
A couple other things that may figure into my serotonin being too low, and which have happened within the last year, are lack of exercise, lack of sunlight, stress... and I'm wondering about "high cortisol levels." I'll ask my doc to look into that. He has done a couple really complete blood level checks, which I think cortisol is on there, but he'll have to look at my record and see... or he may just ask my new endocrinologists to have a look at it.
And of course, the opposite end of the spectrum that you gave me, low serotonin COULD be causing a bunch of the listed things you gave, in particular: anxiety, depression, panic attacks, chronic pain (I was in a bad car wreck and fractured spine and twisted/pulled muscles into forever spasms, off and on, which worsened as I aged... wonder if it was change in endocrine system that contributed?). I also had IBS for a little while, and up until recently, I had perfect colonoscopies, but a recent CT scan showed I had bunches of pockets in my bowel, where just five years before my bowel was fine!
Oh, what a tangled web women face, in particular, when their endocrine levels blast out all over the place during the "change." I hope I find a good endocrine bunch, ones that THIS time will work with me, unless my own doc feels like he can handle all this (I don't think so).
I'll at least keep you all posted if anything new comes up regarding all this, and again, anything else anyone wants to contribute is welcome.
BY THE WAY, GO OUT AND VOTE! (I voted early, last Tuesday!)
Medications was listed, and the first time I took Zoloft was when I was on Klonopin (a tranquilizer for Panic Disorder), it made me feel sad, so they put me on that Zoloft, to not only fight that, but also to help with the Panic. Well, I DO think I'm one of those people who wind up even sicker than before, that is more depressed, by taking an antidepressant, the very thing that is supposed to help with that.
Another few things you listed DO apply to me, as I went through the "change" about the time I was put on Zoloft, which would be: Hormone imbalance, and since my estrogen, etc., was off more than ten years ago, NOW I'm also dealing with a possible adrenal/thyroid problem. But as for the latter, I once had "thyroiditis," which "itis" does indeed suggest what it means, that my thyroid began to overproduce from irritability (probably to make up for estrogen, etc., levels dropping?).
Sure enough, I had a really great doc at the time, and he put me on some sort of mild but very pleasant drug (I'd have to look it up, but it was a beta blocker). And for about four months, once I hit a certain number, he stopped those, which I really hated to let that drug go, but of course I did. All my numbers for thyroid returned to normal.
A couple other things that may figure into my serotonin being too low, and which have happened within the last year, are lack of exercise, lack of sunlight, stress... and I'm wondering about "high cortisol levels." I'll ask my doc to look into that. He has done a couple really complete blood level checks, which I think cortisol is on there, but he'll have to look at my record and see... or he may just ask my new endocrinologists to have a look at it.
And of course, the opposite end of the spectrum that you gave me, low serotonin COULD be causing a bunch of the listed things you gave, in particular: anxiety, depression, panic attacks, chronic pain (I was in a bad car wreck and fractured spine and twisted/pulled muscles into forever spasms, off and on, which worsened as I aged... wonder if it was change in endocrine system that contributed?). I also had IBS for a little while, and up until recently, I had perfect colonoscopies, but a recent CT scan showed I had bunches of pockets in my bowel, where just five years before my bowel was fine!
Oh, what a tangled web women face, in particular, when their endocrine levels blast out all over the place during the "change." I hope I find a good endocrine bunch, ones that THIS time will work with me, unless my own doc feels like he can handle all this (I don't think so).
I'll at least keep you all posted if anything new comes up regarding all this, and again, anything else anyone wants to contribute is welcome.
BY THE WAY, GO OUT AND VOTE! (I voted early, last Tuesday!)
Dear Red Star,
Thank you so much for all the good information you provided me! Now, I am wondering something else, perhaps you know. I AM aware of the interaction between thyroid and adrenals. But another thing I'm interested in knowing is, does a person have to stay on adrenal insufficiency medicines always... or is it merely to boost it up enough to where a natural (if less powerful) endocrine correction takes place?
I will be seeing my Primary Doc in about a week, I will be asking him if I've been miserable because the particular AI meds have actually created more of a problem than before... the side effects I've read about are like my condition, which began to ruin my health and upset my well-being so much, that after much mulling over, I am beginning to think the drugs for AI they gave me were simply too much, and I wonder, as I said in the first part of this post, if I should even be on the drug long-term at all.
Now, I DID call these endos to talk all this over, and I was so shocked that they wouldn't discuss it, rather they felt they were correct. After that disappointment, I knew I couldn't live my life as a 25-yr-old on a motorcycle (I'm 63 yrs old), and so I cut my drugs in half. This helped a lot.
Even so, gradually the strange side effects took over, worse and worse, particularly with the severe depression. So, for the last three days, I decided to cut my AI meds by 1/2, and then added back in 1/2 of my antidepressant, which my psych doc has been urging me to do, even before all this mental health stuff began (and physical problems too). I HAVE to say, whether it was the reduction of Hydrocort or adding in Zoloft, I have slowly improved. Of course, it's too early to tell, but it suggests medication may be the problem here.
I, too, have read about letting adrenal meds build up before fooling with thyroid meds (sort of the opposite of you, but I DID read this), but I never would take the thyroid stuff they first gave me because it felt like I was having a killer heart attack, that's for sure!
In the end, I just can't help but think that, you see, I was hospitalized for two months last winter, and when I came out of there, I was a wreck. They had begun me on maybe a dozen meds, when all I ever took was three. And it was at this time that I went off my antidepressant and felt better (BUT I also went off all the stuff they wanted me to take, and simply returned to my old meds).
But the biggest changes I've noticed, keeping in mind my lowering AI and increasing (adding back in) my antidepressant, the main things that are better are these: I'm nowhere near as depressed, I am not as nervous and upset (crying), and I am not itching and as irritable. I am still not well, but by the time I see my doc in a week, could be the change will be more dramatic, and then he can refer me to some new endocrinologists, to perhaps get something I read about: An Endocrine Scorecard.
This is a holistic point of view, where ALL endocrine systems are measured as best as possible, and the big picture becomes more apparent. Could be, for example, that I may indeed need my AI Hydrocortisone-type drugs, but perhaps a different kind that has less side effects, and also a much lower dose, which I've lowered the dose myself (altho this worries me, to do this). Could also be if they measure all my numbers monthly, for example, until I manage to hit the right grouping of numerical measurements of my endocrine system, WHO KNOWS, maybe I'll wind up not needing anything; rather just a six-month check of the "big picture," to make sure I'm not putting myself into danger by not taking any endo drugs, or to make sure whatever I am taking is correct.
If you have any further thoughts, or if someone else does, now that I've really put the whole story out there, I hope you all will share anything you know. Every little bit helps, and not only will more information help me, but it will of course help readers. Thanks so much again, Red Star, and thanks ahead of time to any others.
GG
Thank you so much for all the good information you provided me! Now, I am wondering something else, perhaps you know. I AM aware of the interaction between thyroid and adrenals. But another thing I'm interested in knowing is, does a person have to stay on adrenal insufficiency medicines always... or is it merely to boost it up enough to where a natural (if less powerful) endocrine correction takes place?
I will be seeing my Primary Doc in about a week, I will be asking him if I've been miserable because the particular AI meds have actually created more of a problem than before... the side effects I've read about are like my condition, which began to ruin my health and upset my well-being so much, that after much mulling over, I am beginning to think the drugs for AI they gave me were simply too much, and I wonder, as I said in the first part of this post, if I should even be on the drug long-term at all.
Now, I DID call these endos to talk all this over, and I was so shocked that they wouldn't discuss it, rather they felt they were correct. After that disappointment, I knew I couldn't live my life as a 25-yr-old on a motorcycle (I'm 63 yrs old), and so I cut my drugs in half. This helped a lot.
Even so, gradually the strange side effects took over, worse and worse, particularly with the severe depression. So, for the last three days, I decided to cut my AI meds by 1/2, and then added back in 1/2 of my antidepressant, which my psych doc has been urging me to do, even before all this mental health stuff began (and physical problems too). I HAVE to say, whether it was the reduction of Hydrocort or adding in Zoloft, I have slowly improved. Of course, it's too early to tell, but it suggests medication may be the problem here.
I, too, have read about letting adrenal meds build up before fooling with thyroid meds (sort of the opposite of you, but I DID read this), but I never would take the thyroid stuff they first gave me because it felt like I was having a killer heart attack, that's for sure!
In the end, I just can't help but think that, you see, I was hospitalized for two months last winter, and when I came out of there, I was a wreck. They had begun me on maybe a dozen meds, when all I ever took was three. And it was at this time that I went off my antidepressant and felt better (BUT I also went off all the stuff they wanted me to take, and simply returned to my old meds).
But the biggest changes I've noticed, keeping in mind my lowering AI and increasing (adding back in) my antidepressant, the main things that are better are these: I'm nowhere near as depressed, I am not as nervous and upset (crying), and I am not itching and as irritable. I am still not well, but by the time I see my doc in a week, could be the change will be more dramatic, and then he can refer me to some new endocrinologists, to perhaps get something I read about: An Endocrine Scorecard.
This is a holistic point of view, where ALL endocrine systems are measured as best as possible, and the big picture becomes more apparent. Could be, for example, that I may indeed need my AI Hydrocortisone-type drugs, but perhaps a different kind that has less side effects, and also a much lower dose, which I've lowered the dose myself (altho this worries me, to do this). Could also be if they measure all my numbers monthly, for example, until I manage to hit the right grouping of numerical measurements of my endocrine system, WHO KNOWS, maybe I'll wind up not needing anything; rather just a six-month check of the "big picture," to make sure I'm not putting myself into danger by not taking any endo drugs, or to make sure whatever I am taking is correct.
If you have any further thoughts, or if someone else does, now that I've really put the whole story out there, I hope you all will share anything you know. Every little bit helps, and not only will more information help me, but it will of course help readers. Thanks so much again, Red Star, and thanks ahead of time to any others.
GG
I should of said as I had to wait for thyroid medication build up in the blood and do a better job than my thyroid gland was doing. :)
It's best to start off low dosage because high doses can really see too quick a drop in natural hormone production. I found that out with hyperthyroid symptoms for a week then worsening hypothyroid symptoms for another month as thyroid medication build up in the blood.
I also had to deal with worsening adrenal fatigue due to thyroxine such as severe coma like fatigue 15 + hours a day where I barely move or speak, dizziness, numbness. A good reason to correct adrenals before taking thyroxine!
Excerpt from Integrative Psychiatry - Serotonin...
"The following factors can cause low serotonin levels:
Alcohol
Artificial sweeteners (aspartame)
Caffeine
Cigarette Smoking
Diabetes
Dietary deficiencies of nutrient co-factors
Ecstasy, Diet Pills, and certain medications
Genetic Predisposition
Hormone Imbalances (thyroid, adrenal, estrogen)
Hypoglycemia
Insulin Resistance
Inflammation
Infections
Poor Diet
Lack of exercise
Lack of sunlight
Problems converting tryptophan to Serotonin
Problems with Digestion
Stress and Anger
High Cortisol Levels
Low Serotonin Symptoms
Low serotonin levels are often attributed to anxiety, depression, panic attacks, insomnia, obesity, fibromyalgia, eating disorders, chronic pain, migraines, and alcohol abuse.
Negative thoughts, low self-esteem, obsessive thoughts and behaviors, PMS, and Irritable Bowel Syndrome are also symptoms of low serotonin."
I also had to deal with worsening adrenal fatigue due to thyroxine such as severe coma like fatigue 15 + hours a day where I barely move or speak, dizziness, numbness. A good reason to correct adrenals before taking thyroxine!
Excerpt from Integrative Psychiatry - Serotonin...
"The following factors can cause low serotonin levels:
Alcohol
Artificial sweeteners (aspartame)
Caffeine
Cigarette Smoking
Diabetes
Dietary deficiencies of nutrient co-factors
Ecstasy, Diet Pills, and certain medications
Genetic Predisposition
Hormone Imbalances (thyroid, adrenal, estrogen)
Hypoglycemia
Insulin Resistance
Inflammation
Infections
Poor Diet
Lack of exercise
Lack of sunlight
Problems converting tryptophan to Serotonin
Problems with Digestion
Stress and Anger
High Cortisol Levels
Low Serotonin Symptoms
Low serotonin levels are often attributed to anxiety, depression, panic attacks, insomnia, obesity, fibromyalgia, eating disorders, chronic pain, migraines, and alcohol abuse.
Negative thoughts, low self-esteem, obsessive thoughts and behaviors, PMS, and Irritable Bowel Syndrome are also symptoms of low serotonin."
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This is my guide on how to interpret ACTH stimulation results that I have put together from reading various websites.
*Healthy adrenal function:
Cortisol levels should double from a normal base cortisol range within 60 minutes.
*Primary adrenal insufficiency:
Cortisol does not double from the low base cortisol range within 60 minutes. ACTH will be at the top of the range or above range.
*Secondary adrenal insufficiency:
Low base cortisol range can double, triple, quadruple within 60 minutes. ACTH will usually be in the bottom half of the range to the very bottom, but not usually below the range.
*Mild primary adrenal insufficiency (low adrenal reserve):
A normal baseline cortisol range with a subnormal response to ACTH stimulation.
*Mild secondary adrenal insufficiency:
A low or low normal baseline cortisol range with a normal response to ACTH stimulation.
NOTE: If a person is unwell, the diagnosis of adrenal insufficiency cannot be excluded by a serum cortisol level.