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I am desperate to stop drinking alcohol.  It seems like I cannot make it a day without. Just some background in '06 I decided to try an IOP program after 3 months, I was recommended to do 30 days in "h**ll" for inpatient therapy.  AA does not do it for me.  Based on that info. does anyone have an idea of what I should do now?  I also suffer from extreme OCD and Bi-polar 1.  I have so many battles going on in my head, I need some serious guidance.  I have a psych. for meds, and see an OCD counselor. She wants me to get off the alcohol so I can just work on the OCD.  Life is looking pretty grim for me.  I feel like I stand alone.  My husband is very supportive.  

I am bouncing around ideas - should I detox - then enroll in an IOP?  Should I try another 21 day program (which makes me sick) I had a horrible experience at my local one. I didn't get my completion coin because I drank on my weekend pass and had a friend sneak out a window to buy alcohol.

My life *****.  Anyone have any suggestions?
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999891 tn?1407276076
HI
I am curious as to  why AA dose not work for you.
For AA to work you need to get involved doing service, get a sponsor and work the program.
Give it an honest try.
rod44

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Avatar universal
Have you tried taking Antabuse?  It is a prescription drug that you take daily.  If you drink while on it, you get violently ill.  I don't want you to get sick, but it could work as a deterrant.
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1033436 tn?1255695537
I personally do not like the idea of Antabus (but then again, it may help you as it helped others) ; it doesn't help with the mind set, the psychological issues. Campral can help you, it'll help with the cravings, but only AFTER you've detoxed. I respect that you have problems with AA, not everybody "likes" it, BUT you have to remember that it is your own choice that you drank while tryi g to work it. Also, one bad experience doesn't mean it can't work out some other timw. However, it's your choice and your feelings, but you MUST detox. I would go to the hospital to do that. They'll help you through that process with tranquilizers, vitamin B, potassium, rest, and food when you are able to eat. After that you need a pragram of sorts if you're not the type of person who can "jusy" tell herself to not drink. There are other alternatives than AA; Google it! Rehab is very expensive, but if you talk to your local social workers they can help you to find something you can get into without a cost. I don't know if you have insurance, medicaid or nothing so it all depends. I have issues with AA, too, but it is good for me all the same. However, I live in New York City and here there is thousands and thousands of different meetings every day/ night all over the year. My groupos are just wonderful and it's the people themselves rather than the philosophy that help me. THE most important thing, though, is that you WANT to stop drinking. Also, not only do you HAVE to to treat your psychological afflictions, just like your doctor said, but your psychological issues can also be a mere RESULT of your drinking! You must detox as soon as you can! Good luck and all the best! Kindly/ Pia
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Avatar universal
Thanks for the info.  I've done the Campral and Naltrexone route.  They only cut my limit of how much I drink.  When I was in rehab I had to go to an AA meeting everyday - no excuses.  I don't like the no choice deal.  I was paying big bucks - they needed to taylor more to my needs.  I have found a (local) 3 1/2 hours away rehab.  My lcsw has heard nothing bad from the clients he has sent there.  However, I have to get approval from my insurance to go.  Then I have this desire not to go, because I have a 9 year old and frankly it's hard to explain all of mom's problems to her.  Today is a really bad for me.  I'll probably end up in bed all day.  Some days it just seems like why try.  I have really put my heart into this all week - I all I seem to get are dead ends. Thanks for listening.
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Avatar universal
AA was my first attempt at getting sober.  It was at my church - I felt very uneasy.  No one seemed to acknowledge me.  One woman said "why are you hear? you can't possibly have a problem.  That was a huge turn off for me. I know, I know, you are going to say look around for other meetings get a sponsor.  When I was in rehab I had to attend every day. All were about chanting and listening to war stories.  This made want to drink even more.  I may try AA again but, it will be a last ditch effort. thanks
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Avatar universal
I have thougt long and hard about Antabuse - it is just not practical for me.  I use alcohol as a decontaminate for my (OCD) and I am not giving up everything toiletry with alcohol in it.  Thanks for the idea.
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999891 tn?1407276076
Hi,
Ok please do not be offended but all I can see from your posts are excuses, it seems you want an easy solution. I was like that,  made excuses, refused to try what was suggested, I tried to stop on my terms but it never worked. When I was in treatment I got a rude awakening, I got lambasted by my peers and councillors until I realised no matter what way I tried to get sober it had to be with the help and guidance of people who had been there. In AA I had to listen and hear everything not just the parts I wanted to hear then I had to filter the stuff (war storeys) and identify with the parts of them that applied to me, listened to how they overcame issues and learned from them.. This was hard because I was judgmental of the people and there against my will or so I felt.  
Detox is about cleaning the body of the toxins we accumulate when we drink.
Rehab is about learning about how to get through the day without a drink.
AA is about cleaning up the mind, it is to remind ourselves of our shortcomings, it reminds us how it was when we were drinking, what it was like getting sober and what it is like now that we are sober. You use AA, take the good and leave the rest behind but you must be prepared to surrender the grip that addiction has on you.
YOU ARE NOT ALONE IN THIS, you can overcome this but stop making excuses and Instead of “I cant” or “why” say “why not”

Have you tried CBT. It is now been used to tread addicts as well as OCD.
Hope this makes sense.
rod.
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Avatar universal
What is CBT?  Tell me more and where i can go.

Thanks for the info.

P
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999891 tn?1407276076
Hi,
Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, it  was first used for treating OCD but is now been used in Addiction and other depressive illness. If you Google it to learn more. I have a friend who is very well today after CBT, she also had OCD and addiction issues.
ROD
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999891 tn?1407276076
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy
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Avatar universal
You're quite right: AA isn't for everybody. Estimates of success rates are in the range of 5% - 10%, allowing for the anonymity factor. Some studies show AA is detrimental to many, who find no solace or motivation from "War Stories" or the curious "12-Steps" influenced by Judeo-Christian beliefs.

You've tried it; many swear by it, but you don't sound like a candidate. The seizure window is, at maximum, 36 hours, so, generally, Valium is used for about a week on a tapering schedule.

It is a tenacious addiction -- afraid to go out, lest you pass a bar (hard not to do), and individual counselling doesn't occupy that much time.

One thing about AA, or Rational Recovery meetings, is that you spend an hour getting there, and two hours in the meetings, and another hour getting home ... four hours when you're not drinking. And you might find a compatible group and forge connections.

Hard to tackle this one on your own.

Best of luck.
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999891 tn?1407276076
You are quoting statistics but don’t give a source for these statistics.  
AA works for me, I agree it dose not work for others, I often wonder why…
At the end of the day we here suggest ideas that have helped, I personally do not or would not find fault with an organisation that works for thousands worldwide and has done so since 1935.
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Avatar universal
COMMUNITY LEADER
i've gone to AA NA SOS RR...i took what i could use and left the rest.i wouldn't have 25 years clean/sober minus this plus 25 days of inpatient in 1983.i stopped because i accepted total loss of control over substances having failed many times at so-called controlled use which is a fallacy for me!if u went to any lengths to drink drug and continue ur addiction..then one should take that same energy and apply it toward recovery...it is work well worth it if u want it..with NO excuses!:)
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Avatar universal
I'm not saying AA is a wicked cult, but if you want references, google "AA Success Rates," and prepare for a few weeks tracking down the sources ...

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999891 tn?1407276076
With respect
I accept your apparent resentment of AA  but I would suggest that you let people make there own judgements on AA.
ROD
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Avatar universal
...which is what I've done -- are you suggesting that scientific research is invalid when it comes to addiction?

I provided the research you found lacking in my initial post, and now you presume to advise others to ignore it?

I don't understand your assumption that I'm advising people here to avoid AA -- I'm merely pointing out that for those who find it lacking, alternatives exist. In other words, if AA doesn't work for someone, it's not the ultimate failure or by any means, the end of the road.

I've spent a few days reading the research papers, and I'm quite surprised at the conclusions. If you quash active debate, you isolate yourself from intellectual progress.
i've found
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Avatar universal
This brief sampling of research is hardly an all-condemning attack on AA. Lots of helpful information, if you wish to investigate ...


The following four items describe spontaneous remission in alcoholics (from Bufe):

Recovery Without Treatment, by Thomas Prugh
Alcohol Health and Research World, Fall 1986, pp. 24, 71 and 72.

Alcoholism as a Self-Limiting Disease, by Leslie R. H. Drew
Quarterly Journal of Studies on Alcohol, Vol. 29, 1968, pp. 956-967.

Spontaneous Remission in Alcoholics: Empirical Observations and Theoretical Implications, by Barry S. Tuchfeld
Journal of Studies on Alcohol, Vol. 42, No. 7, 1981, pp. 626-641.

Spontaneous Recovery in Alcoholics: A Review and Analysis of the Available Research, by R. G. Smart
Drug and Alcohol Dependence, Vol. 1, 1975-1976, p. 284.



References cited by Christine Le, Erik P. Ingvarson, and Richard C. Page,
in the excerpt from: Alcoholics Anonymous and the Counseling Profession: Philosophies in Conflict, in Journal of Counseling & Development, 07-01-1995, page 603.

    * Bebbington, P. E. (1976). The efficacy of alcoholics anonymous: The elusiveness of hard data. British Journal of Psychiatry, 128, 572- 580.

    * Bufe, C. Q. (1991). Alcoholics Anonymous: Cult or cure? San Francisco, CA: See Sharp.

    * Cross, G. M., Morgan, C. W., Mooney, A. J., Martin, C. A., & Rafter, J. A. (1990). Alcoholism treatment: A ten-year follow-up study. Alcoholism: Clinical and Experimental Research, 14(2), 169-173.

    * Glaser, E B., & Ogborne, A. C. (1982). Does AA really work? British Journal of Addiction, 77, 123-129

    * Hoffman, N. G., Harrison, P. A., & Belille, C. A. (1983). Alcoholics Anonymous after treatment: Attendance and abstinence. International Journal of the Addictions, 18(3), 311-318.

    * McBride, J. L. (1991). Abstinence among members of Alcoholics Anonymous. Alcoholism Treatment Quarterly, 8(1), 113-121.

    * Thurstin, A. H., Alfano, A. M., & Nerviano, V. J. (1987). The efficacy of AA attendance for aftercare of inpatient alcoholics: Some follow-up data. International Journal of the Addictions, 22, 1083-1090.

    * Vaillant, G. (1983). The Natural History of Alcoholism: Causes, Patterns, and Paths to Recovery. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University.



References cited by Prof. George Vaillant
in the quotes from The Natural History of Alcoholism: Causes, Patterns, and Paths to Recovery:

    * Baekeland, F., L. Lundwall, and B. Kissin. 1975. "Methods for the Treatment of Chronic Alcoholism: A Critical Appraisal." In Research Advances in Alcohol and Drug Problems, Vol. 2, ed. R. J. Gibbons, Y. Israel, H. Kalant, R. E. Popham, W. Schmidt, and R. G. Smart. New York: Wiley.

    * Beaubrun, M. H. 1967. "Treatment of Alcoholism in Trinidad and Tobago, 1956-65." British Journal of Psychiatry 113:643-658.

    * Belasco, J. A. 1971. "The Criterion Question Revisited." British Journal of Addiction 66:39-44.

    * Bratfos, O. 1974. The Course of Alcoholism: Drinking, Social Adjustment and Health. Oslo: Universitet Forlaget.

    * Bruun, K. 1963. "Outcome of Different Types of Treatment of Alcoholics." Quarterly Journal of Studies on Alcohol 24:280-288.

    * Cecil, R. 1940. Textbook of Medicine. New York: Saunders

    * Costello, R. M. 1975. "Alcoholism Treatment and Evaluation, II: Collation of Two Year Follow-up Studies." International Journal of Addictions 10:857-867.

    * Emrick, C. D. 1975. "A Review of Psychologically Oriented Treatment of Alcoholism, II: The Relative Effectiveness of Different Treatment Approaches and the Effectiveness of Treatment versus No Treatment." Journal of Studies on Alcohol 36:88-109.

    * Farquhar, J. 1978. "The Community-Based Model of Life Style Intervention Trails." American Journal of Epidemiology 108:103-111.

    * Farquhar, J. W., N. Maccoby, P. D. Wood, J. K. Alexander, H. Breitrose, B. W. Brown, Jr., W. L. Haskell, A. L. McAlister, A. J. Meyer, J. D. Nash, and M. P. Stern. 1977. "Community Education for Cardiovascular Health." Lancet 1:1192-1195.

    * Frank, J. D. 1961. Persuasion and Healing: A Comparative Study of Psychotherapy. Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press.

    * Goodwin, D. W., J. B. Crane, and S. B. Guze. 1971. "Felons Who Drink: An 8-Year Follow-up." Quarterly Journal of Studies on Alcohol 32:136-147.

    * Gordis, E. 1976. "Editorial: What is Alcoholism Research?" Annals of Internal Medicine 85:821-823.

    * Hill, M. J., and H. T. Blane. 1967. "Evaluation of Psychotherapy with Alcoholics: A Critical Review." Quarterly Journal of Studies on Alcohol 28:76-104.

    * Imber, S., E. Schultz, F. Funderburk, R. Allen, and R. Flamer. 1976. "The Fate of the Untreated Alcoholic." Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease 162(4):238-247.

    * Kendell, R. E., and M. C. Staton. 1966. "The Fate of Untreated Alcoholics." Quarterly Journal of Studies on Alcohol 27:30-41.

    * Kissin, B. 1977. "Comments on Alcoholism: A Controlled Trial of 'Treatment' and 'Advice'." Journal of Studies on Alcohol 38:1804-1808.

    * Lundquist, G. A. R. 1973. "Alcohol Dependence." Acta Psychiatrica Scandinavica 49:332-340.

    * Myerson, D. J., and J. Mayer. 1966. "Origins, Treatment and Destiny of Skid Row Alcoholic Men." New England Journal of Medicine 275:419-424.

    * Orford, J. and G. Edwards. 1977. Alcoholism. New York: Oxford University Press.

    * Robson, R. A., I. Paulus, and G. G. Clarke. 1965. "An Evaluation of the Effect of a Clinic Treatment Program on the Rehabilitation of Alcoholic Patients." Quarterly Journal of Studies on Alcohol 26:264-278.

    * Shadel, C. A. 1944. "Aversion Treatment of Alcohol Addiction." Quarterly Journal of Studies on Alcohol 5:216-228.

    * Sobell, M. B., and L. C. Sobell. 1973. "Alcoholics Treated by Individualized Behavior Therapy: One Year Treatment Outcome." Behavior Research and Therapy 11:599-618.

    * van Dijk, W. K., and A. van Dijk-Koffeman. 1973. "A Follow-up Study of 211 Treated Male Alcoholic Addicts." British Journal of Psychiatry 111:348-356.

    * Voegtlin, W. L., and W. R. Broz. 1949. "The Conditioned Reflex Treatment of Chronic Alcoholism, X: An Analysis of 3125 Admissions over a Period of Ten and a Half Years." Annals of Internal Medicine 30:580-597.

    * Wallerstein, R. S. 1956. "Comparative Study of Treatment Methods for Chronic Alcoholism: The Alcoholism Research Project at Winter V.A. Hospital." American Journal of Psychiatry 113:228-233.
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Avatar universal
COMMUNITY LEADER
AA inpatient and oupatient all have poor success rates statistically......one out of 10 ppl stay sober the first year all three are attempted.I'm well versed with the studies....dayjob is substance abuse counselor for 24 years....these studies show statistics but do not gauge the persons readiness or committment towards abstinence.I CHOSE....I DECIDED...to NOT be one of the numbers that relapsed.All of this is up 2 the individual..plain and simple!Ever hear the saying there r those to smart to get sober?Alocholics/addicts rationalize/intellectualize in heaps why they cannot quit.....i listen to it on a daily basis and have watched those recover who defied the odds....it is in my observation and personal experience a personal choice!
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495284 tn?1333894042
I dont follow statistics much cuz the bottom line here is how bad do you want to stay sober? Once i finally realized i was powerless over drugs and alcohol i decided i would move heaven and earth to get myself clean and i am a firm believer in aftercare whether it be AA,NA, therapist, counselor or a minister.  Getting clean is the easy part, staying clean is the hard part.  Facing my demons is a must for me.  I no longer want to numb myself.  I face my hardships head on. I abused my body and mind for 30 plus years and today i am sober and clean.  Doesnt get any better than that.        sara
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999891 tn?1407276076
Ditto my friend, that is what it is all about, happiness and peace of mind in sorority.

Ok take all your research , all your scientific stuff and what do we learn….nothing. Yes there is failure. Failure to get sober is down to individual and how badly they want it,You don’t need to be an intellect to know this do you?

What solutions has scientific research and the medical comunity come up with when it comes to drunks getting sober?
Ray
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Avatar universal
COMMUNITY LEADER
I'm with u 2 all the way in your comments!Research has not seemed to track the ppl who get sober via family support,church or alternative methods.We have many ppl who come thru our clinic who find traditional 12 step unpalatable which is ok....they are voluntary programs....and these folks manage to stay sober/clean!a good friend of mine now deceased once said there are many roads to recovery!
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Avatar universal
COMMUNITY LEADER
this is not a forum for debates on the validity and efficacy of research articles on the treatment of alcoholism.Med help moderators will occasionally go thru these posts and delete book references.I recall something to the effect of it being against their policy on non-endorsement of one form of treatment over another and not wanting it to appear that they were endorsing all the article references u posted.
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999891 tn?1407276076
Hi Helpless,
I am sober to day because of the help and good advice I got from people that i met in AA who like ibizan, tjack and the other good people here just want to get and stay sober, I am sober today because of the continued support of these friends, I respect the views and wishes of others and that is why when the doctors and councillors in the mental health unit I was a patent of suggested I go to an open AA meeting I did. The doctors said they could treat the associated depression with medication and counselling but that I needed to look to within myself, see the destructive path I was on, identify and take responsibility for my drinking and decide if I wanted to get sober. This is the dilemma that each one faces when getting sober, recognising there problem and then accepting it, when you do this you can move on to recovering.
Ray
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495284 tn?1333894042
I also get together a couple times a week at the local coffee shop with about 6 other people who are recovering but didnt feel comfortable at AA.  We talk about everything under the sun, our struggles and our triumphs.  I am the one with the least amount of clean time there.  Most have 15-20 yrs clean.  We have all admitted we are powerless over alcohol and drugs and are committed to our recovery.  As ibizan said there are many roads to recovery......sara
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