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How do you distance yourself from alcoholic actions?
My brothers is an alcoholic. He has been drinking since he was a teenager. In the last 6 months his drinking has increased. The last month has been terrible.
He drinks by himself, during the day, and then goes driving. He has one DUI because he drank and ran into the back of a car that had a mother and two children at 3 pm in the afternoon. The mother and children survived but they did need some medical care. He was court ordered to go to an alcoholic program, attend AA meetings, ect. He seemed like he had been scared straight.
He was fine for about a year. One night when his wife was away, he drank a couple bottles of wine, watched porn on his computer, and then went driving - alone. He ran a red light and drove into a tree, totalling his car. No other cars were involved. He said he was worthless and was going to jump out of my car and kill himself. He went on about what an awful person he is.
He called me and I went and picked him up and kept him hidden from the police. The police never came, they just towed his car away. He was very remorseful and said he would never drink again.
There has been other instances where he gets drunk, and makes fool of himself. Or he talks about suicide and what an awful person he is. He says he is a loser and other stuff. Most of the time he does it when his wife is around and she talks to him and prays with him (they are Born-Again Christians). Lately she has been calling me to help because he is so hard to handle.
A few weeks ago, his wife called me b/c he was drunk and she had taken his car keys away. She had to get their daughter and she wanted me to take him home.
Well, he didn't want to go home, he wanted more booze. He said he already had a fifth of Jack Daniels. (Found out later it was 1 fifth and half of another fifth. His wife threw out the 2nd bottle before he could finish it.) Not knowing the truth, I thought what the heck, get him more booze - I bought 2 little airplane size bottles of Jack Daniels - and he will pass out, have a bad hangover and that would teach him a lesson.
Instead he just talked about what a loser he was and missed opportunities. I got him something to eat to soak up the booze - a cheeseburger, fries & coke which he proceeded to drop all over my car. I took him home and made sure he got to bed but I worried about him drowning in his own puke. I went back to check on him within minutes but his wife was home. We talked for a bit and I knew she would take care of him.
He always says he is sorry after these events.
We had an intervention with a professional intervention guide, had 28 day rehab place all set up, his bills would be paid - he said No. He had heard of a "very special" program at his church that will cure him of alcohol spiritually. That program is 1 day. They will really pray for him and I don't know what else.
I know I need to go to Al-Anon and learn how to distance myself. I just don't want him to die if I can prevent it. If I stop caring about him, and being there for him, I'm afraid he will get into an accident and die.
What should I do if I know he is drinking and is out driving - call the cops? Should I keep helping his wife? What if he drinks and starts talking about how bad of a human being he is?
How much should I distance myself?
I am worried that the only intervention he will get is either die in a car acccident, kill someone else in car accident or end up in jail.
Where do I draw the line?
He drinks by himself, during the day, and then goes driving. He has one DUI because he drank and ran into the back of a car that had a mother and two children at 3 pm in the afternoon. The mother and children survived but they did need some medical care. He was court ordered to go to an alcoholic program, attend AA meetings, ect. He seemed like he had been scared straight.
He was fine for about a year. One night when his wife was away, he drank a couple bottles of wine, watched porn on his computer, and then went driving - alone. He ran a red light and drove into a tree, totalling his car. No other cars were involved. He said he was worthless and was going to jump out of my car and kill himself. He went on about what an awful person he is.
He called me and I went and picked him up and kept him hidden from the police. The police never came, they just towed his car away. He was very remorseful and said he would never drink again.
There has been other instances where he gets drunk, and makes fool of himself. Or he talks about suicide and what an awful person he is. He says he is a loser and other stuff. Most of the time he does it when his wife is around and she talks to him and prays with him (they are Born-Again Christians). Lately she has been calling me to help because he is so hard to handle.
A few weeks ago, his wife called me b/c he was drunk and she had taken his car keys away. She had to get their daughter and she wanted me to take him home.
Well, he didn't want to go home, he wanted more booze. He said he already had a fifth of Jack Daniels. (Found out later it was 1 fifth and half of another fifth. His wife threw out the 2nd bottle before he could finish it.) Not knowing the truth, I thought what the heck, get him more booze - I bought 2 little airplane size bottles of Jack Daniels - and he will pass out, have a bad hangover and that would teach him a lesson.
Instead he just talked about what a loser he was and missed opportunities. I got him something to eat to soak up the booze - a cheeseburger, fries & coke which he proceeded to drop all over my car. I took him home and made sure he got to bed but I worried about him drowning in his own puke. I went back to check on him within minutes but his wife was home. We talked for a bit and I knew she would take care of him.
He always says he is sorry after these events.
We had an intervention with a professional intervention guide, had 28 day rehab place all set up, his bills would be paid - he said No. He had heard of a "very special" program at his church that will cure him of alcohol spiritually. That program is 1 day. They will really pray for him and I don't know what else.
I know I need to go to Al-Anon and learn how to distance myself. I just don't want him to die if I can prevent it. If I stop caring about him, and being there for him, I'm afraid he will get into an accident and die.
What should I do if I know he is drinking and is out driving - call the cops? Should I keep helping his wife? What if he drinks and starts talking about how bad of a human being he is?
How much should I distance myself?
I am worried that the only intervention he will get is either die in a car acccident, kill someone else in car accident or end up in jail.
Where do I draw the line?
I believe in miracles from prayer, but they do not cost money and the person involved has to be willing to fully accept it. If he's looking for a quick "no pain band-aid" then he's out of luck.
I would stop shielding him from his actions. If he's going to drive in that state of drunkenness, call the police and let him face the consequences. At the rate he's drinking, he's going to do major damage to his body, and Jail would be preferable to dying of liver disease. Sorry to be so "forward" but I think you've seen what this can do to a person.
I'm sorry that you have to go through this, but each of us has to find his/her own bottom of the pit before we decide that we're ready to stop. His self-pity is preventing him from taking action to stop the roller coaster ride. Many alcoholics (me too) have been guilty of that kind of self pity in the depths of our drinking. Alcohol has a way of doing this.
Post back and let us know how he's doing.
I would stop shielding him from his actions. If he's going to drive in that state of drunkenness, call the police and let him face the consequences. At the rate he's drinking, he's going to do major damage to his body, and Jail would be preferable to dying of liver disease. Sorry to be so "forward" but I think you've seen what this can do to a person.
I'm sorry that you have to go through this, but each of us has to find his/her own bottom of the pit before we decide that we're ready to stop. His self-pity is preventing him from taking action to stop the roller coaster ride. Many alcoholics (me too) have been guilty of that kind of self pity in the depths of our drinking. Alcohol has a way of doing this.
Post back and let us know how he's doing.
I'm going to try to walk the fine line here and please understand I'm not trying to badmouth religion or (as I said before) the role religion can play in recovery and in life in general...
however...
If all it took was $600 and one day of heavy prayer to cure alcoholism... or anything for that matter... wouldn't everyone do it? Wouldn't we all know about it? Wouldn't it be all over the news and in the papers and everything?
I also have to seriously question a church that is charging that kind of money to offer one day of help and prayer to its parishoners. My church has support groups that cost you nothing. There's also a psychologist in our parish who offers free sessions to parishoners who need someone to talk to.
If you're trying to view his disease as a cancer (which is a good way to look at it) then you should know he's not going to get better by simply "exorcising the drinking demon" out of him. Sure the power of suggestion may help him for a few days, weeks, even months. But it won't solve the problem in the long run.
Yes, Al-Anon is important for you and for everyone who cares about him, his wife included.
Don't look at it as turning your back on him because that is not what you're doing. You've done what you can to help him and he's refused every time. Only he can be responsible for himself and his actions and his life. You can only be responsible for YOU.
He has to know on some level that things aren't right, that he's (at the very least) abusing alcohol too much and at the most he has a problem. We rationalize our behavior and our addiction to others and to ourselves but we do have moments of clarity where we know deep in our heart of hearts that we're just BSing ourselves.
In an extreme case you can have him committed for being a danger to himself and others. Different states have different laws on this but I believe two (2) doctors can have a person committed as a precaution for up to a 72 hour period but that may just be in New York.
You could try calling the police or your local hospital (ask for the chemical dependency or substance abuse unit. Different hospitals call their addiction treatment centers different things. Try a largish hospital as smaller ones might not have a unit devoted to addiction and/or rehab). They should be able to advise you on how to get him emergency help if you believe he presents an immediate danger to himself or others. Taking that kind of action may help him come to terms with his problem.
But beyond doing that or staging another intervention you can't force him into realizing what he is doing if he doesn't see it or admit it himself. You've done about as much as you can do to try to help him. Now, you're right, you can only confront what he does when he does it and if that means calling the police when he drinks and drives then so be it.
Again, in an intervention you need to be prepared to write him out of your life and that should have been explained to you. It needs to be: "Look, these are your family and friends, this is how your drinking is hurting them. We have a bed and a room in rehab ready for you right now. It's time to go or all of these people are done with you." And everyone needs to be prepared to really stick to that. If there's no consequence for him saying no, if nothing changes then there's no reason for him to say yes. I say this again as much for you as for others who might read this thread and not fully understand what an intervention is really all about.
Again, Al-Anon Al-Anon Al-Anon. Good luck!
however...
If all it took was $600 and one day of heavy prayer to cure alcoholism... or anything for that matter... wouldn't everyone do it? Wouldn't we all know about it? Wouldn't it be all over the news and in the papers and everything?
I also have to seriously question a church that is charging that kind of money to offer one day of help and prayer to its parishoners. My church has support groups that cost you nothing. There's also a psychologist in our parish who offers free sessions to parishoners who need someone to talk to.
If you're trying to view his disease as a cancer (which is a good way to look at it) then you should know he's not going to get better by simply "exorcising the drinking demon" out of him. Sure the power of suggestion may help him for a few days, weeks, even months. But it won't solve the problem in the long run.
Yes, Al-Anon is important for you and for everyone who cares about him, his wife included.
Don't look at it as turning your back on him because that is not what you're doing. You've done what you can to help him and he's refused every time. Only he can be responsible for himself and his actions and his life. You can only be responsible for YOU.
He has to know on some level that things aren't right, that he's (at the very least) abusing alcohol too much and at the most he has a problem. We rationalize our behavior and our addiction to others and to ourselves but we do have moments of clarity where we know deep in our heart of hearts that we're just BSing ourselves.
In an extreme case you can have him committed for being a danger to himself and others. Different states have different laws on this but I believe two (2) doctors can have a person committed as a precaution for up to a 72 hour period but that may just be in New York.
You could try calling the police or your local hospital (ask for the chemical dependency or substance abuse unit. Different hospitals call their addiction treatment centers different things. Try a largish hospital as smaller ones might not have a unit devoted to addiction and/or rehab). They should be able to advise you on how to get him emergency help if you believe he presents an immediate danger to himself or others. Taking that kind of action may help him come to terms with his problem.
But beyond doing that or staging another intervention you can't force him into realizing what he is doing if he doesn't see it or admit it himself. You've done about as much as you can do to try to help him. Now, you're right, you can only confront what he does when he does it and if that means calling the police when he drinks and drives then so be it.
Again, in an intervention you need to be prepared to write him out of your life and that should have been explained to you. It needs to be: "Look, these are your family and friends, this is how your drinking is hurting them. We have a bed and a room in rehab ready for you right now. It's time to go or all of these people are done with you." And everyone needs to be prepared to really stick to that. If there's no consequence for him saying no, if nothing changes then there's no reason for him to say yes. I say this again as much for you as for others who might read this thread and not fully understand what an intervention is really all about.
Again, Al-Anon Al-Anon Al-Anon. Good luck!
COMMUNITY LEADER
a church exorcism that costs $600?sounds like charlatans masquerading as the Lord!such BS!i hope his wife doesn't waste $$$ on this..he just plain isn't sick n'tired of being sick'n tired yet!Please get urself to Al-Anon and listen to wise ppl who have struggled with this and know how to practice detachment!
Thank you both very much for your advice. This is a nightmare of a situation. I love my brother and don't want him to lose everything yet I can't take the chance of him killing himself or anyone else if I know he has been drinking and is out driving. I will have to call the police.
Westguy - we did have a professional do the intervention. It was someone from FL who travels all around the US and leads these groups.
I know I need to distance myself from my brother. If he calls me and needs help, I can't help anymore. I won't be there for him.
I wonder if he even wants help. Maybe he likes being a victim and likes the attention. Maybe he doesn't feel good enough for his wife and daughter and this is his way of pushing them away.
I think this church thing is some sort of exorcism. They are going to exorcise the drinking demon out of him. It will cost him $600. Guess that's cheaper then going to rehab.
I'm am trying hard to remember this is a disease like cancer. I can hate the disease but not the person.
It's scary to think that he may die before me b/c of his drinking. With his reckless behavior, it may be a car accident or suicide. Either way, I don't know how to stop it. How can you stop someone when they are the path of destruction and won't let anyone help them?
Westguy - we did have a professional do the intervention. It was someone from FL who travels all around the US and leads these groups.
I know I need to distance myself from my brother. If he calls me and needs help, I can't help anymore. I won't be there for him.
I wonder if he even wants help. Maybe he likes being a victim and likes the attention. Maybe he doesn't feel good enough for his wife and daughter and this is his way of pushing them away.
I think this church thing is some sort of exorcism. They are going to exorcise the drinking demon out of him. It will cost him $600. Guess that's cheaper then going to rehab.
I'm am trying hard to remember this is a disease like cancer. I can hate the disease but not the person.
It's scary to think that he may die before me b/c of his drinking. With his reckless behavior, it may be a car accident or suicide. Either way, I don't know how to stop it. How can you stop someone when they are the path of destruction and won't let anyone help them?
It'd probably be a good idea to get everyone who was involved in the intervention over to Al-Anon.
COMMUNITY LEADER
westguy has given u some great advice!if a 28 day rehab was set up and his bills would be paid and he rejected that once in a lifetime offer.....then he is not ready!i know several ppl who would die for that opportunity!u need Al-Anon...so does his wife!
First off let me extend my sympathies to you and your situation. This sounds like an impossible situation and certainly a very serious and upsetting one. Many of us on here have been there though. In your shoes, his shoes, or even both! You are not alone.
You are absolutely correct when you say you should be going to Al Anon. That is a very VERY good idea. http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/english.html will help you find a meeting near you. You should check it out as soon as possible and follow the program once you do. They can advise you and help / support you better than I can. This is what they do.
As long as he has people around him that are enabling him and keep bailing him out of trouble its not helping anybody. If he hasn't "learned a lesson" by now after the accidents and all the rest then a particular bad night of drinking isn't likely to make much difference. Bottom line: Al-Anon Al-Anon Al-Anon
If you had a professional run intervention then the first thing the guide should have told you is that if he doesn't agree to go into rehab then everyone needs to be willing to walk away from him. He needs to realize the consequences of not getting help are dire. They need to seem worse to him than the prospect of never drinking again. It really needs to be an ultimatum. If he thinks nothing will happen to him then he'll never agree to it. A one day detox is not going to cut it. I'm not downplaying the role religion can play in recovery, it can be tremendous. But if he's as far along in his (addiction) disease as it sounds... if he's as depressed and lost as it sounds then trust me he needs a lot more than a group of people spending a day praying really hard for him. He may be at risk for several health problems not the least of which can be dangerous withdrawl symptoms. I am not a doctor but I would suggest he certainly needs some 24 hour care at an inpatient facility so that he can detox safely. It certainly does seem like he needs help and needs it quickly though. Another intervention might be in order.
I can't tell you whether you should call the police on him or not. That's an impossibly difficult call to make and I've never been in that situation so I can't speak from experience on it. I will say this though: The endgame here has to be getting him the help that he needs.He is obviously depressed and may pose a danger to himself and certainly others if he knowingly drinks and drives. in the long run the goal is for him to get better. At the moment he's obviously not clear-headed. When all is said and done and I hope he's rehabbed and gotten better I would think (hope) he would thank you for stopping him before he makes a mistake that he and others can't walk away from.
Again, Al-Anon is the perfect place for you to start sorting these feeling out. They can also refer you to other services that they have used (counseling, therapy, intervention, etc) and just generally give you the support and guidance that you need.
Please keep us informed and let us know if there's anything we can do to help. Remember you're not alone! Use the resources of Al-Anon and this forum to your advantage. We're here for you.
Good luck!
You are absolutely correct when you say you should be going to Al Anon. That is a very VERY good idea. http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/english.html will help you find a meeting near you. You should check it out as soon as possible and follow the program once you do. They can advise you and help / support you better than I can. This is what they do.
As long as he has people around him that are enabling him and keep bailing him out of trouble its not helping anybody. If he hasn't "learned a lesson" by now after the accidents and all the rest then a particular bad night of drinking isn't likely to make much difference. Bottom line: Al-Anon Al-Anon Al-Anon
If you had a professional run intervention then the first thing the guide should have told you is that if he doesn't agree to go into rehab then everyone needs to be willing to walk away from him. He needs to realize the consequences of not getting help are dire. They need to seem worse to him than the prospect of never drinking again. It really needs to be an ultimatum. If he thinks nothing will happen to him then he'll never agree to it. A one day detox is not going to cut it. I'm not downplaying the role religion can play in recovery, it can be tremendous. But if he's as far along in his (addiction) disease as it sounds... if he's as depressed and lost as it sounds then trust me he needs a lot more than a group of people spending a day praying really hard for him. He may be at risk for several health problems not the least of which can be dangerous withdrawl symptoms. I am not a doctor but I would suggest he certainly needs some 24 hour care at an inpatient facility so that he can detox safely. It certainly does seem like he needs help and needs it quickly though. Another intervention might be in order.
I can't tell you whether you should call the police on him or not. That's an impossibly difficult call to make and I've never been in that situation so I can't speak from experience on it. I will say this though: The endgame here has to be getting him the help that he needs.He is obviously depressed and may pose a danger to himself and certainly others if he knowingly drinks and drives. in the long run the goal is for him to get better. At the moment he's obviously not clear-headed. When all is said and done and I hope he's rehabbed and gotten better I would think (hope) he would thank you for stopping him before he makes a mistake that he and others can't walk away from.
Again, Al-Anon is the perfect place for you to start sorting these feeling out. They can also refer you to other services that they have used (counseling, therapy, intervention, etc) and just generally give you the support and guidance that you need.
Please keep us informed and let us know if there's anything we can do to help. Remember you're not alone! Use the resources of Al-Anon and this forum to your advantage. We're here for you.
Good luck!
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