Aa
Problem Drinking and Drugs, Alcohilsm
[Big Q ... sorry :-)]
I am very confused about the distinction between problem drinking, controlled drinking, alcoholism, addiction from what I have read here and elsewhere about such distinction, thought I'll share my situation here.
I have been struggling with drinking and other substance abuse for some time now and I am very confused about where I am, on the one hand I do have some amount (only just) of self control and I will not slide down after a point. I go to meetings and find others who have gone on much much farther than where I have gone. I am even made aware that yes I am an addict but not a hardcore one, maybe on the fringe of being a hardcore addict.
(A doctor dealing with alcohol and drug addicts since about 10 years told me this last week when I meet him at his out reach center)
I have more of a problem with drugs but even that I do not take beyond a particular line. To start off, I have been drinking for about 7-8 years now. (since I was 17 I think) I had 2 bouts with drugs also in all of this, the first time it went for two years and at around 20 , I quit drugs and decided that I will only use alcohol since it is a controllable socially allowed vice. There is no question that drinking caused problems but I did not have the same appetite for alcohol an alcoholic might have; I would often drink alone but I found it boring after a couple of pegs, about a maximum of a pint of whiskey or any other hard drink like rum. When drinking alone, I never drank enough to cause vomiting, total loss of self control, black outs etc. I would only drink to that point when I was drinking with friends (It happened occasionally at first but it did slowly get to the point where each week 1nce or 2wice I would be out drinking all night with friends who were good company to drink with and occasionally get in to fights and other hassles) I didn't enjoy drinking too much when I had boring company though. This is where I was about a year and a half ago, this is how most of my weekends were spent; getting together with my drinking friend and drinking and then doing our kind of mischief, the kind that amused us a bit but not got us in to trouble too often)
and then I hated it the next day because I would have the hangovers, feeling completely lethargic for all of the next day, stomach issues etc. I hated it in the long term as well because I would schedule the weekends to catch up on my reading, catch up with certain other friends or often to simply rest and get things in perspective after a week's work. But the drinking friend of mine was too pestering and would call me and lull me anyway, he liked alcohol much more than me I could tell, it probably had a genetic component to it I guess as well. (his father died of drinking at 31) So whenever I was able to stay away from this one particular friend and another friend I had at work, I could stay away from booze or maybe slip up a little here and there but not too much.
Then after a while, I tried opioid prescription medicines with an office mate and loved it initially. This is what I got hooked on to big time, slowly but surely I was doing different stuff all together, booze, marijuana, meds all of them. I was taking only this on weekends than in the middle of the week, then on some weekdays as well (you know how it works).
After about 3 months of trying opioids, I was doing them everyday, the use of opioids I can not control I admit. I raved like this for some months until the money ran out and then I did only the meds each day.
(but still I only tried the harder stuff like hydrocodones rarely and stayed away from the dirty ones such as doing opium itself or heroin which I had tried as a teenager.)
After using codeine everyday for about a year, I have actually put on weight, I still don't look like a junkie, I can pass of a respectable member of society everywhere I go. [where they don't know I use]
But then the downside is, that much of my time and money is wasted (I'll admit I have done both crazy and low things to get the money to keep me high) with doing codeine, when I could write a blog post or read up about things I am in to now, learn this or that, meditate, find spiritual peace, go to a gym, spend time with my family or do a million other things that I'd like to do, I go out have a couple of bottles of C syrup and then go to some place of solace I like and sit contemplating nothing of importance while chain smoking ciggs or listening to music. (at first it as on an iPOD I had which I sold and then my phone which also I sold later I'll admit I got there)
Recently, many a times, I have alcohol as well.
Coming back to A drinking, I see that I can still control it, I am content with a quarter or somewhat less amounts or maybe I will have 3 beers but I don't do more because then I don't like it, I only like how you feel after 2-3 drinks, when your perception is just changing and then you get a pleasant buzz, I in fact hate it when I drink to much and the buzz is overwhelming.
Now, ever since I found about the 12 step programs, I have wanted to live the life all of those NA & AA members live; absolutely clean of everything and serene but I have not been able to do that, Often I have the urge to get back to drinking socially once again, stay of drugs, just have alcohol in moderation but the trouble is I haven't been able to get clean of C. Finally, I'll arrive the question (which you might find stupid and excruciatingly redundant) but I'll ask it anyway:
Is it ok if I can get back to drinking in a controlled manner even if I tend towards problem drinking at times. (If I can manage it which it seems to me I can)
Drugs I can not have and don't want to have, but I still feel like being able to enjoy a booze buzz every once in a while. My mind rebels when I tell it that I'll be sober of all things till I die ...
I am very confused about the distinction between problem drinking, controlled drinking, alcoholism, addiction from what I have read here and elsewhere about such distinction, thought I'll share my situation here.
I have been struggling with drinking and other substance abuse for some time now and I am very confused about where I am, on the one hand I do have some amount (only just) of self control and I will not slide down after a point. I go to meetings and find others who have gone on much much farther than where I have gone. I am even made aware that yes I am an addict but not a hardcore one, maybe on the fringe of being a hardcore addict.
(A doctor dealing with alcohol and drug addicts since about 10 years told me this last week when I meet him at his out reach center)
I have more of a problem with drugs but even that I do not take beyond a particular line. To start off, I have been drinking for about 7-8 years now. (since I was 17 I think) I had 2 bouts with drugs also in all of this, the first time it went for two years and at around 20 , I quit drugs and decided that I will only use alcohol since it is a controllable socially allowed vice. There is no question that drinking caused problems but I did not have the same appetite for alcohol an alcoholic might have; I would often drink alone but I found it boring after a couple of pegs, about a maximum of a pint of whiskey or any other hard drink like rum. When drinking alone, I never drank enough to cause vomiting, total loss of self control, black outs etc. I would only drink to that point when I was drinking with friends (It happened occasionally at first but it did slowly get to the point where each week 1nce or 2wice I would be out drinking all night with friends who were good company to drink with and occasionally get in to fights and other hassles) I didn't enjoy drinking too much when I had boring company though. This is where I was about a year and a half ago, this is how most of my weekends were spent; getting together with my drinking friend and drinking and then doing our kind of mischief, the kind that amused us a bit but not got us in to trouble too often)
and then I hated it the next day because I would have the hangovers, feeling completely lethargic for all of the next day, stomach issues etc. I hated it in the long term as well because I would schedule the weekends to catch up on my reading, catch up with certain other friends or often to simply rest and get things in perspective after a week's work. But the drinking friend of mine was too pestering and would call me and lull me anyway, he liked alcohol much more than me I could tell, it probably had a genetic component to it I guess as well. (his father died of drinking at 31) So whenever I was able to stay away from this one particular friend and another friend I had at work, I could stay away from booze or maybe slip up a little here and there but not too much.
Then after a while, I tried opioid prescription medicines with an office mate and loved it initially. This is what I got hooked on to big time, slowly but surely I was doing different stuff all together, booze, marijuana, meds all of them. I was taking only this on weekends than in the middle of the week, then on some weekdays as well (you know how it works).
After about 3 months of trying opioids, I was doing them everyday, the use of opioids I can not control I admit. I raved like this for some months until the money ran out and then I did only the meds each day.
(but still I only tried the harder stuff like hydrocodones rarely and stayed away from the dirty ones such as doing opium itself or heroin which I had tried as a teenager.)
After using codeine everyday for about a year, I have actually put on weight, I still don't look like a junkie, I can pass of a respectable member of society everywhere I go. [where they don't know I use]
But then the downside is, that much of my time and money is wasted (I'll admit I have done both crazy and low things to get the money to keep me high) with doing codeine, when I could write a blog post or read up about things I am in to now, learn this or that, meditate, find spiritual peace, go to a gym, spend time with my family or do a million other things that I'd like to do, I go out have a couple of bottles of C syrup and then go to some place of solace I like and sit contemplating nothing of importance while chain smoking ciggs or listening to music. (at first it as on an iPOD I had which I sold and then my phone which also I sold later I'll admit I got there)
Recently, many a times, I have alcohol as well.
Coming back to A drinking, I see that I can still control it, I am content with a quarter or somewhat less amounts or maybe I will have 3 beers but I don't do more because then I don't like it, I only like how you feel after 2-3 drinks, when your perception is just changing and then you get a pleasant buzz, I in fact hate it when I drink to much and the buzz is overwhelming.
Now, ever since I found about the 12 step programs, I have wanted to live the life all of those NA & AA members live; absolutely clean of everything and serene but I have not been able to do that, Often I have the urge to get back to drinking socially once again, stay of drugs, just have alcohol in moderation but the trouble is I haven't been able to get clean of C. Finally, I'll arrive the question (which you might find stupid and excruciatingly redundant) but I'll ask it anyway:
Is it ok if I can get back to drinking in a controlled manner even if I tend towards problem drinking at times. (If I can manage it which it seems to me I can)
Drugs I can not have and don't want to have, but I still feel like being able to enjoy a booze buzz every once in a while. My mind rebels when I tell it that I'll be sober of all things till I die ...
I'm not sure if you're a troll or not. I put that out there because there sometimes are people who aren't serious that come on this forum and others and rather than post genuinely what they are feeling, deliberatly chose fighting words to rile up an arguement. If this is what you are genuinely feeling, by all means post your feelings. One thing about my autism, I'm realizing I have little control over my emotions when they get extreme (or at least have less control than the so called "average" person). I'm learning that whatever I feel at the time is okay... Too often I try to rationalize myself out of the feeling and tell myself that the trigger is small and that my feeling is not logical... Only thing that does is make me feel worse. Feelings aren't logical.
But one thing I can do is control what I do when I feel the way I do. I may get caught up in an anxiety attack/meltdown. I may not be able to stop feeling the panic, but I can control what I do, even if there's only a small window of time. If I must hit something, I can choose not to hit myself. I can hit something soft like a pillow.
I'm not sure how this plays here on this forum. I guess I'm saying it's okay for you to feel angry and upset. You can feel like we are out to attack you. Those feelings are okay, but you can cloose whether or not on a cognative level if you want to continue believeing what your feelings are saying. Somewhere I heard that I should not follow my feelings to judge what is right and wrong. (I think it's one of those Christian concepts about not trusting my own judgement over God's or something.) Feelings are unstable. They come and go. Sometimes in a bad crying bout all I can do is weather the storm and realize I'm crying just becuase I am crying. There doesn't need to be any other reason. Eventually that passes. Sometimes I have to sleep on it, but by the next day I feel better.
If I can't sleep I find it helps to write out those feelings, no matter how irrational they may seem and how silly and embarrassing... If I have to post it publicly sometimes I do, but then later may delete or hide such journal entries in my profile when I feel and can think better. That's one of the reasons we have journals on our profiles. You can set the privacy to just yourself, your friends, or for the public.
So try that out. If you feel we are against you, go ahead and write that you feel that way on your profile, though I do suggest that if you have it set to "public" please be mindful of the members on the forum, that we are in fact real people sitting at our computers and we do have feelings just like you. We don't like to come across and read something that may hurt our feelings, especially if we may be feeling down. By all means please be respectful when sharing your feelings.
I will be honest, yes I was trying to get under your skin a little with the troll comment and make you think.
But one thing I can do is control what I do when I feel the way I do. I may get caught up in an anxiety attack/meltdown. I may not be able to stop feeling the panic, but I can control what I do, even if there's only a small window of time. If I must hit something, I can choose not to hit myself. I can hit something soft like a pillow.
I'm not sure how this plays here on this forum. I guess I'm saying it's okay for you to feel angry and upset. You can feel like we are out to attack you. Those feelings are okay, but you can cloose whether or not on a cognative level if you want to continue believeing what your feelings are saying. Somewhere I heard that I should not follow my feelings to judge what is right and wrong. (I think it's one of those Christian concepts about not trusting my own judgement over God's or something.) Feelings are unstable. They come and go. Sometimes in a bad crying bout all I can do is weather the storm and realize I'm crying just becuase I am crying. There doesn't need to be any other reason. Eventually that passes. Sometimes I have to sleep on it, but by the next day I feel better.
If I can't sleep I find it helps to write out those feelings, no matter how irrational they may seem and how silly and embarrassing... If I have to post it publicly sometimes I do, but then later may delete or hide such journal entries in my profile when I feel and can think better. That's one of the reasons we have journals on our profiles. You can set the privacy to just yourself, your friends, or for the public.
So try that out. If you feel we are against you, go ahead and write that you feel that way on your profile, though I do suggest that if you have it set to "public" please be mindful of the members on the forum, that we are in fact real people sitting at our computers and we do have feelings just like you. We don't like to come across and read something that may hurt our feelings, especially if we may be feeling down. By all means please be respectful when sharing your feelings.
I will be honest, yes I was trying to get under your skin a little with the troll comment and make you think.
sometimes the written word sounds all different than what the writer intended for it to be and that is what has probably happened here. Please don't leave mama, this forum needs people like you who know so much from their own experience and are willing to share it ... what you said about multiple substance abuse is also so true; alcoholics don't want to talk about the abuse of other substances at all (which many of us do along with abusing alcohol) and drug addicts who like only drugs don't think of drinking as a problem at all. However there are some of us who do have a preference for some substances but we will do anything that gets us high often mixing n matching different things ... what you said about the core issue which is the addictive nature of the person instead of the type of substance was so true ... hope we can have many more informative discussions on this and other topics here ... :)
COMMUNITY LEADER
stick with the winners in NA....there r plenty who go who are not yet committed to staying clean.....know they have a problem but very weak minded and cave in to the desire......it is a simple thing....u cannot cave to the urge....refuse to cave in2 that Beast in ur head......it can b done..i have done it.....simple addictions in the long run will work themselves out but now this big one is the one needing priority attention!
COMMUNITY LEADER
MJwriter did not call u a troll......she did say that some ppl have come in2 the forum posting inaccurate info and some trolls have gotten zapped here.She gave u some good links and is a very helpful contributor here.....u seem to just want to argue with ppl.....ur more than welcome to go look for help elsewhere!This forum was not designed to go in depth about examining underlying psychological issues involving alcoholism u need to go to counseling if u want that!...it is for ppl who want help staying sober.good luck 2 u!
It is interesting that you want to separate all the various addictive substances when somebody asks real questions concerning their connection (which is real), and then top it off by calling me a troll. I realize this is an alcoholism forum, but there are plenty of problem drinkers out there who have multiple substance problems and could use some discussion that addresses the underlying addictive issues instead of filtering out everything but alcohol.
I came here seeking info, got a little irritated by the "company line" and now I'm a troll. I'm going to go look for help elsewhere. I do appreciate the info about alternative to AA. Thank you and goodbye.
I came here seeking info, got a little irritated by the "company line" and now I'm a troll. I'm going to go look for help elsewhere. I do appreciate the info about alternative to AA. Thank you and goodbye.
well, I am not committed to quit smoking now, so it stays for me but I am committed to NOT using booze n ny kind of drugs for sure ... my recovery so far has never lasted long, the last time I slipped was with an NA member itself, he had a lot of money to burn that day and we burnt it the only way we knew, drinking till we are talking complete nonsense then after a while we 'relaxed' with drugs, the cycle then continued 4 days. So it turns out the money it burnt us. Now, I am clean again, hope that this time my recovery lasts long enuf for me to be able to give up the smaller vices I have as well ...
COMMUNITY LEADER
"I have a stomach of a pregnant lady cuz of all the drinking and codeine...."Most of them have gone to xtremes that i haven't...yet..."is not ur distended stomach an xtreme?maybe u go to NA and compare urself out of room....well i haven't done THIS yet...i'm not as bad as them....YET...yet awaits for u!don't wait for the yet to come.....also like what the Buddhist guy said about smaller addictions....alcoholics/addicts have much to give up at first.....if the smoking is to go the person has 2 WANT to give that up...and in time that will come is the person is committed to stopping....note the word committed!
and mama I can relate to that, the members I find in NA are coming from the streets lost everything, been to jail, some have been to jails more than once and I am there because I about think codeine and alcohol might be doing to my liver. They don't have codeine pills here, so the only source is Codeine Cough syrups in which they put a lot-n-lot of sugar to mask the bitter taste of codeine, now I have a stomach like that of a pregnant lady because of all the drinking and codeine which I have been doing everyday since about a year now, I sweat a lot whenever I am out and I feel so lethargic.
Members come from all backgrounds, rich, middle class and poor but almost all of them have gone to extremes I can't think of going to (at least as yet). This is one reason I can't fit in completely in NA. I am also looking for a place where I belong but so far haven't been able to find one ...
Members come from all backgrounds, rich, middle class and poor but almost all of them have gone to extremes I can't think of going to (at least as yet). This is one reason I can't fit in completely in NA. I am also looking for a place where I belong but so far haven't been able to find one ...
If I look back at own experience and think about whether I can control the use of any substance be it alcohol or drugs of any kind, I know immediately that I can not. It's only in your weaker moments in which you are very very tempted to use do you buy your own addicted mind's arguments such as
'this is not as bad as injecting heroin or smoking cocaine' or 'a couple of drinks won't be that bad for me, no matter what I won't have any more than that and it's just today I am drinking, no more drinking till at least a week after this'
this goes on till the day you really know, know it in your heart that it's a lie, you use once and you are gone. Once you really know that you are a slave to using can you hope to stop.
and about cigarettes and coffee I am strongly for the approach that junkies and alcoholics shouldn't be bothered with trying to quit nicotine and caffeine while trying to give up their bigger addictions.
You see a hardcore junkie never cares enuf anyway, he/she won't brush his teeth, take showers, make sure he/she is wearing good clothes, how can they care about cancers or tumors which will come 25-30 years later (If the alcoholic/addict lives that long in the first place).
Junkies have never cared enough about their bodies anyway when they use so very dangerous drugs even injecting them
I have a Buddhist friend and once when I was taking about all of my bad habits even cigarettes and not just booze and drugs, he told me that ciggs n caffeine are ok really for me, according to him Buddha had once said that you should in fact not care about the small vices you may have because these small vices can save you from bigger ones.
'this is not as bad as injecting heroin or smoking cocaine' or 'a couple of drinks won't be that bad for me, no matter what I won't have any more than that and it's just today I am drinking, no more drinking till at least a week after this'
this goes on till the day you really know, know it in your heart that it's a lie, you use once and you are gone. Once you really know that you are a slave to using can you hope to stop.
and about cigarettes and coffee I am strongly for the approach that junkies and alcoholics shouldn't be bothered with trying to quit nicotine and caffeine while trying to give up their bigger addictions.
You see a hardcore junkie never cares enuf anyway, he/she won't brush his teeth, take showers, make sure he/she is wearing good clothes, how can they care about cancers or tumors which will come 25-30 years later (If the alcoholic/addict lives that long in the first place).
Junkies have never cared enough about their bodies anyway when they use so very dangerous drugs even injecting them
I have a Buddhist friend and once when I was taking about all of my bad habits even cigarettes and not just booze and drugs, he told me that ciggs n caffeine are ok really for me, according to him Buddha had once said that you should in fact not care about the small vices you may have because these small vices can save you from bigger ones.
There is a forum for discussing smoking addiction and a forum for discussing other substance abuse. I doubt you're interesting in checking either out, but I'm putting them up anyway. :P Maybe for the more interested people who are really curious to help themselves than the trolls who like to get reaction.
Smoking:
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/show/159
Substances (I assume Mary Jane can be discussed there too):
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/show/77
My addiction is computer games (not substances)... I have to apply the one day at a time at times I feel like it would be okay just to log on and play a little... I'm sure for most playing an online game is not harmful and in fact a good way to spend time. It isn't for me... I could try to control my amount of time spent, but soon find I'd be up all night and for the better part of the day...
I guess when it boils down to addiction, I rather spend my time doing something that can potentially help others and make me feel productive (such as writing and posting on forums) than play a game, get all competitive and grouchy, as well as watch my self esteem and self worth drop if I can't make a high score chart... You're right the addiction doesn't always have to come from the supposed "worse" things... It can come from things considered minor or petty by society.
BTW my mom is a recovered (tobacco) smoker. I don't remember how many years exactly (it is well over 10 years I'm sure). I am very proud of her for quitting. She quit CT with lots of prayer and faith after developing a case of bronchial asthma.
Smoking:
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/show/159
Substances (I assume Mary Jane can be discussed there too):
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/show/77
My addiction is computer games (not substances)... I have to apply the one day at a time at times I feel like it would be okay just to log on and play a little... I'm sure for most playing an online game is not harmful and in fact a good way to spend time. It isn't for me... I could try to control my amount of time spent, but soon find I'd be up all night and for the better part of the day...
I guess when it boils down to addiction, I rather spend my time doing something that can potentially help others and make me feel productive (such as writing and posting on forums) than play a game, get all competitive and grouchy, as well as watch my self esteem and self worth drop if I can't make a high score chart... You're right the addiction doesn't always have to come from the supposed "worse" things... It can come from things considered minor or petty by society.
BTW my mom is a recovered (tobacco) smoker. I don't remember how many years exactly (it is well over 10 years I'm sure). I am very proud of her for quitting. She quit CT with lots of prayer and faith after developing a case of bronchial asthma.
there is no doubt that things like tobacco use and overeating are harmful and costly, but for this alcoholic, the distinction between harmful and lethal had become clear. if things haven't gotten bad enough yet, the suggestion i always hear is to go do some more drinking and/or using until i've had enough. i have told others the same thing and it's hard to do because some people don't make it back to try sobriety again. one does not have to be a stereotypical end stage drunk to die out there. this may sound cruel, but i know today that it's an expression of "tough love." for there to be a reasonable expectation of success, most alcoholics/addicts have to be willing to go to any length to achieve and maintain sobriety. and this involves doing things that we are afraid of. to anyone who is questioning their situation and what their alternatives may be, do yourself a favor and read the first 164 pages of the book "Alcoholics Anonymous" with an open mind.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance---that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ----Herbert Spencer
best wishes, gm
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance---that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ----Herbert Spencer
best wishes, gm
I just have to say again, cigarettes are a death sentence, and the surgeon general has said that NO amount of smoke, first or second hand, is safe. Every cigarette poses an immediate threat to the person smoking it and anybody else around. Just because they die more slowly than a car crash does not make the person any less dead. And the longer they are tied to that particular rope, the less hope they have to escape. To say, "if I smoke this cigarette I won't crash into anybody and kill them, therefore this is the lesser addiction" does not make sense to me. I'm a HUGE supporter of getting drinkers off the roads, but that does not detract from this other big addiction problem. Yes, this is an alcoholism forum, but again, another addiction was pointed out immediately, and it wasn't cigarettes. As for cigarettes not being a threat in vehicles, you might want to do a little research on that.
the bottom line here is that there is a way out for anyone who wants it. it isn't necessary to visit the depths of hell that many find themselves in before recovery can begin. recovery is not for those that need it, it's for the ones that want it. the principles are not usually easy pills to swallow, however the alternative of continuing to slowly destroy myself and the relationships with those i care about made the decision easier. and i used my college educated mind to fight this thing tooth and nail until i finally conceded that my ways and methods did not work. the cemeteries, mental institutions, and prisons are full of people who would not or could not surrender their will in order to achieve a way of life that doesn't require intoxication. the substitution or combination of multiple substances was explained to me as follows:
if i'm tied to a tree (representative of negative effects) with several ropes (representative of intoxicating substances--say alcohol, pot, cocaine and pain pills), and all the ropes are removed except one, i'm still tied to the tree. it's not until i'm free of them all, that i can put distance between myself and the harmful repercussions. tobacco, caffeine, and even things like gambling and overeating-- while potentially harmful --do not impair judgement and result in things like dui or actions that pose immediate threats to myself and others. by trying to identify rather than compare , i can honestly confront my demons, and take action to rid them from my life.
best wishes, gm
if i'm tied to a tree (representative of negative effects) with several ropes (representative of intoxicating substances--say alcohol, pot, cocaine and pain pills), and all the ropes are removed except one, i'm still tied to the tree. it's not until i'm free of them all, that i can put distance between myself and the harmful repercussions. tobacco, caffeine, and even things like gambling and overeating-- while potentially harmful --do not impair judgement and result in things like dui or actions that pose immediate threats to myself and others. by trying to identify rather than compare , i can honestly confront my demons, and take action to rid them from my life.
best wishes, gm
sooo...if you have two alcoholics, one who drinks alcohol and smokes pot and drinks coffee, and one who drinks alcohol, smokes cigarettes, and drinks coffee, is the one who smokes pot supposed to quit that too, but nobody cares about the cigarettes (hugely addictive and a death sentence) or the coffee (yes, that is an addiction too)? Just wondering. You picked right up on my pot smoking, yet I don't see anything on this forum about quitting other big addictions like cigarettes and coffee.
Cigarettes are killing my mother, yet alcohol just made her act like a mean jerk a few times in her life.
If you go to an AA meeting that isn't nonsmoking, you find a bunch of "recovering" addicts chain smoking and chugging coffee.
And what about religious addiction? I've seen alcoholics turn into braindead converts because they needed another addiction to make up for the one they lost.
And don't give me bull about this being my way to avoid stuff. Long before I began questioning my growing alcohol dependence this question has bugged me. It's a big logical gap in the whole "addictive personality" gotta quit everything mentality.
And don't tell me that people don't use cigarettes and coffee to alter their mental/emotional state/numb themselves or whatever, because that is just not true. They are mind/body altering substances with very high addictive potential.
And if I sound annoyed, I am, because I've run into this blind spot over and over.
Maybe some of this other addiction gets worked on in the background, but you jumped right on my pot smoking, even though I am one of the least medicated people I know. I don't see a single thread about cigarette addiction, which, by the way, often has a very tight connection with drinking (trigger), aside from its own deadly addiction potential.
Cigarettes are killing my mother, yet alcohol just made her act like a mean jerk a few times in her life.
If you go to an AA meeting that isn't nonsmoking, you find a bunch of "recovering" addicts chain smoking and chugging coffee.
And what about religious addiction? I've seen alcoholics turn into braindead converts because they needed another addiction to make up for the one they lost.
And don't give me bull about this being my way to avoid stuff. Long before I began questioning my growing alcohol dependence this question has bugged me. It's a big logical gap in the whole "addictive personality" gotta quit everything mentality.
And don't tell me that people don't use cigarettes and coffee to alter their mental/emotional state/numb themselves or whatever, because that is just not true. They are mind/body altering substances with very high addictive potential.
And if I sound annoyed, I am, because I've run into this blind spot over and over.
Maybe some of this other addiction gets worked on in the background, but you jumped right on my pot smoking, even though I am one of the least medicated people I know. I don't see a single thread about cigarette addiction, which, by the way, often has a very tight connection with drinking (trigger), aside from its own deadly addiction potential.
Hears a question for you when you ingest alchol or drugs can you stop at one? or does the obsession kick in and then the choas etc follows?If so their might be an answer to you question
And one of the interesting facts I gleaned from the WFS site was that they started the organization because the numbers showed that women were less likely to become successful recovering alcoholics/addicts using traditional programs like AA. They came to the conclusion that many women need a different approach if they are to be successful. So...they fully support my contention that one size does NOT fit all in the realm of recovery programs and that people should seek what works.
I'm kind of in the same place, where I seem to be the only one who thinks I have a problem. I'm not a closet drinker. I drink my beer in plain sight for everybody to see, and the most I've gotten is my sweet husband (who also drinks a bit too much beer) telling me that the beer is contributing to my belly fat, which is bad for my health.
Years ago, during one of my several quitting pot phases, I decided to attend a NA meeting to see if I could get some help. I felt that becoming a lifetime smoker wasn't necessarily in my best interest, so maybe I should try to dump it before it became a problem. Well, that was certainly a mistake. I felt like a complete fool in that meeting, and NO I did not speak up. Virtually every person in that meeting had had their life destroyed by drugs. The usual. Ruined marraiges, lost jobs, estranged families, police records, you name it. And there I was, thinking maybe smoking was kinda bad for my lungs.
THAT is one of the reasons I started my other thread about alternatives to AA, because it IS important to find a good fit if you are going to stick with it. Not everybody is so far down the road, so desperate, that they will try anything, even if it doesn't really work for them. I'm not desperate. I'm concerned. One of the main reasons I drink too much is because I can't find a place in this world where I feel like I belong. Why would I seek help someplace where i don't feel even a faint sense that I could eventually belong? I need to find a group, like WFS, that focuses on the kinds of things that got me here in the first place, so that I can work on those, and that provides the kind of supportive environment that makes me want to come back.
Years ago, during one of my several quitting pot phases, I decided to attend a NA meeting to see if I could get some help. I felt that becoming a lifetime smoker wasn't necessarily in my best interest, so maybe I should try to dump it before it became a problem. Well, that was certainly a mistake. I felt like a complete fool in that meeting, and NO I did not speak up. Virtually every person in that meeting had had their life destroyed by drugs. The usual. Ruined marraiges, lost jobs, estranged families, police records, you name it. And there I was, thinking maybe smoking was kinda bad for my lungs.
THAT is one of the reasons I started my other thread about alternatives to AA, because it IS important to find a good fit if you are going to stick with it. Not everybody is so far down the road, so desperate, that they will try anything, even if it doesn't really work for them. I'm not desperate. I'm concerned. One of the main reasons I drink too much is because I can't find a place in this world where I feel like I belong. Why would I seek help someplace where i don't feel even a faint sense that I could eventually belong? I need to find a group, like WFS, that focuses on the kinds of things that got me here in the first place, so that I can work on those, and that provides the kind of supportive environment that makes me want to come back.
a counselor *** doctor working with druggists and alcoholics for 10+ years just like you told me that I am not a hardcore addict at all, that I haven't done enough, I needn't worry that much and that everything will work out on its own ... how do I think and act now I don't know ...
COMMUNITY LEADER
Bear with me.....dayjob substance abuse counselor...sober and clean going on 25 years.I watch ppl ruin their lives on a daily basis with alcohol and drugs..it is very sad.I have a wit and sense of humor to make a point also helps me keep my sanity in dayjob.......i 2 thought like u years ago..it was not meant to scold....and i won't apologize for pointing out the truth!i 2 have been where ur at.....and i never 4 get that.Best of luck 2 u thruout ur journey!
COMMUNITY LEADER
i wasn't scolding u dear.....just a factual statement that u'll find out in ur journey!and it was I who suggested the WFS!
yeah, probably so, but it is my journey to do my way. I once had a therapist say he wouldn't treat me until I read "I'm okay, you're okay" and gave up pot. I said it was ironic that I was seeking therapy for issues about conditional love.
"You'll find out" scolding doesn't work with me. I'm aware of all the rationalizations and ins and outs. I come from a family of alcoholics. What worked was somebody's suggestion to check out Women for Sobriety. They seem like the type of support network I'm looking for.
"You'll find out" scolding doesn't work with me. I'm aware of all the rationalizations and ins and outs. I come from a family of alcoholics. What worked was somebody's suggestion to check out Women for Sobriety. They seem like the type of support network I'm looking for.
COMMUNITY LEADER
oh mama..oh don't take that pot away from me..i once thought like u...never give up that pot...but got cotton mouth and alcoholic brain thougth oh i can handle one.......and u know the rest of the story!Alcoholism/addiction like Judy Garland at the end of Wizard of Oz when she says to Glenda the good witch angrily...u knew i knew how to get back to Kansas the whole time...why didn't u tell me?Glenda giggles waves her wand and replies Cuz u never woulda b-lieved me..u had 2 find our for urself.......and my dear u will!doing another drug that is not ur drug of choice will lead u back 2 ur drug of choice...and u will find that out!
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