when is his liver going to give up?

[nanabandm]

Hello all. My husband - the 44 year old alcoholic who won't acknowledge it - with acloholic liver disease, cirrosis, swelling, jaundice and a weird smell on him even though he showers because he itches like crazy. Looks awful, very pasty coloured, papery skin on legs, bruising, freezing cold all the time. It's a beautiful day here in south Wales (UK) and there he is in several layers, a great big fleecy jacket and wooly GLOVES!!! I'm in a sun-dress.
He has hepatic encepholepathy (I always spell it wrong, sorry), and won't take his medication properly. He is also back drinking Guinness. He was out of hospital for a day and he's back on it. He is staying with his mother tonight and I've just spoken to him on the phone and he is very negative, was rambling has obviously drank today and was slurring terribly. I was told another drink could kill him. That was 2 weeks ago. He's been drinking up to 5 pints of Guinness a day for over a week. I'm at the end of my rope and don't know what to do. Any advice and although I know it's hard to give a time scale but does anyone have similar stories of relatives/friends and how long did they last? Love nana xxx

[boogieman]

hi. sorry to hear things are still rough out there. i did the same thing for a while (drinking or drugging and going to meetings) but i guess it helped me get to the bottom with all the other bad things i put myself through. one thing about it, as another person in recovery that i greatly respect says, "a head full of aa and a belly full of liquor will make you sick as hell" and it can take a while. the scariest part is that we never know who will live long enough to reach the point of wanting it badly enough to recover. i was (and could be again if i so choose) one of those that went to rehabs, meetings, psych wards, emergency rooms, etc. for years and kept returning to the very thing that was killing me. and as those who saw how bad i got would predict, i was sealing my own fate to an alcoholic death. but i kept coming back to the people who told me there was a solution. i would fall further each time but i always got back up eventually, even when i had lost hope and wanted to die. so today when those same people see me sober they tell me i am a miracle. they tell me how they believed i would end up dead, locked up or permanently insane. but they also tell me they never stopped praying for me, as that is often all that can be done for those who can't or won't try to help themselves. and god willing, i won't need those prayers again as long as i don't pour that **** down my throat. i too worry about folks who are struggling now as i did especially when i haven't heard anything lately. but please remember there is always hope, help, and for what they may be worth to you, the prayers and support of myself and those like me who have been to hell and don't want to go back. best wishes---gm

[jjaz]

I'm still around reading posts. I was pretty upset and discouraged for awhile after reading ironpetal09's post. They obviously had not read all of my or the people's posts.

Yes alcoholism is a very cunning disease and it hurts everyone that it touches. I attend Al anon and Celebrate Recovery, and will continue to do so. Although my husband is still denying that he is drinking, that does not mean that I cannot get help for myself. I will always hope that he will get the help that he needs, but I won't be so stupid to think that I can do it for him. He will need to own his sobriety, not me.

I don't know where ironpetal09 read about secret plans to make my husband stop drinking. I have met with my accountant and others to discuss how to protect myself financially. Once again,  I am trying to take care of myself, not use secret plans, hints or tricks to make him stop.

Don't think that I am not grateful for ironpetal09's words of advice, but they really did not read the whole story. I'm sure that AA and other groups work for 99% of those that attend their meetings. However, it does not work for everyone....my husband being a perfect example.He just makes it part of his drinking ritual. He gets up, goes to his 6:45am meeting and then hits the ATM machine for $20 and goes to Walgreens to buy several airplane size bottles of JD. Speaking of little bottles, my neighbors are getting upset because they keep finding empty little JD bottles in their bushes. Apparently, he is getting up in the middle of the night and drinking and tossing the bottles all over the neighborhood. I found out from my daughters Girl Scout leader....that was a pleasant conversation.

Right now, my plan is to get through the holidays as best as I can. After the first of the year, hopefully I will have some plans in place for myself and my daughters. I have to take it one day at time and take care of myself and our children, since he is unable to do so anymore.


Pickles4Me, thank you so much for asking how I, Nana and izzyxx were doing. I too would like to know how the other 2 are doing.

Thanks for your prayers and concern.

I'll keep you all posted.

jjaz

[Pickles4Me]

Does anyone know how nanabandm is doing? (the original poster)  It's been a very long time since we've heard from her.  And how is jjaz and izzyxx?

[ironpetal09]

When are you going to stop trying to stop this man alone?? When are you going to stop pussyfooting around his drinking?? Get some help from the experts.  Let him go.

Nobody could smash down the wall of denial I had around myself only I could do that.  Alcoholism is a family illness it tries to isolate everyone - stop the isolation get the AA team around to speak to your husband and share their stories.  What are you afraid of ?because FEAR permeates the home of the alcoholic.  Your husband is relying on you to ENABLE his drinking......to pick up the pieces..........and run around protecting him here and there and arranging secret plans to get him to stop...............stop this now.  You cant make him stop.  NOBODY  could make us stop.  

Im sure your husband is not totally in oblivion Im sure he is a very very unhappy man inside and deep down knows something is not quite right and although this sounds contradictory we alkies are very intelligent people and we KNOW something is not right especially when its being pointed out to us and of course how ill we are physically.  

Go to al anon and get some numbers - surround yourself with the winners and sober people.  To hell with what he thinks...............Thats what happened to Bill W and thats how he got sober.  Hand him over or be destroyed because Alcohol will take you down too.

Some of us have to lose everything before we get it..............just make sure your protected for the fall out.  

Sorry for my harsh words but you know what you have to do.  First get help yourself because you are also in denial - you hope you think he will mend his ways - sorry nope he aint gonna mend them ways - get contacts and links to AA.  

We had to admit we where powerless over alcohol and our lives had become unmanageable - this is the first step not just for the Alcoholic but also for the family.

This is tough love..........behind that pisshead is an amazing man in recovery - do you want to meet him? Go looking for him then hes there in that mess somewhere but first you have to unlock the door on your fear you so you need the key of AA to do that.

Im sorry there is no other way so forget secret plans and hints and tricks they wont work.

[boogieman]

hi. my heart goes out to you -- i know this is still a difficult time. one option is to stage an intervention of sorts in which yourself and other relevant persons confront him in a compassionate but serious manner, and set some boundaries. explain what is not acceptable and why, while stressing the real concern you have for his well being as well as your own. the greatest obstacle to this is usually denial of a problem, or minimizing it in an effort to accuse everyone of overreacting. as far as the risk of dui or worse, if he tries to blame his condition on something other than alcohol, you could start by asking him to submit to an alcohol test (chem strips or breath analysis) prior to and after driving. if he is evasive, it might be worth involving law enforcement (drastic, yes. but not as drastic as negligent homicide or manslaughter). as far as your business, incorporation may be advisable to protect assets. of course the best case scenario would be for him to agree to treatment, as that's likely going to be the most effective way to dry him out and begin to recover, but the best rehab money can buy can't produce sobriety in someone who doesn't want it. if you haven't already, it would be a good idea to check out al-anon also, for your support. i hope some of this helps. take care,  gm

[jjaz]

Well he went to the Dr. but I don't know much more than I knew before the appointment. They want him to come back for more testing....we'll see if he makes the appointment.

On a more worrysome note, he just moved into a new office and the people are asking questions about him. They asked his secretary if he has a drinking problem, because he smells of alcohol all the time. His clients are also asking questions and starting to making complaints. I own the business, but he is the one that actually works the clientele. Because of his drinking and his health deteriorating, I don't know how long I can keep the business running. I am meeting with our accountant next week to see what options I have for the business. His secretary and the people at the office are also afraid to see him drive. He says that he has vertigo from allergies, but everyone know better. I'm afraid that he will hurt himself or worse yet kill someone while driving. Does anyone know what precautions I can take to protect myself? I don't want to be sued because of his stupid actions. I have thought about leaving him, but he can't take care of himself anymore. We have been married for over 20 years and I take my wedding vows very seriously (for better or worse). This stupid disease has paralyzed me....I just don't know what to do anymore.

jjaz

[Pickles4Me]

Even if your husband doesn't listen to his doctor, he will have the seed planted.  Sometimes it's easy to ignore a spouse but not so easy to ignore a doctor.  

Do you feel your husband will be up front about all his symptoms?  If not, you can call and leave a message for the doctor.  He won't be able to tell you anything unless your husband has signed a consent form, but he CAN LISTEN to the symptoms you've  notice.

I wish you all the best.  Please keep us updated.  We care deeply.

--Pickles

[jjaz]

Thank you for your prayers!

jjaz

[jjaz]

izzy -

I am so sorry to hear of your loss. I can only imagine the grief that you must be going through. Alcoholism is such a horrible disease for everyone in involved. I too have struggled, thinking that maybe there was something more that I could have done. I now realize that the lies and covering things up with stories are all part of the disease. They will hear what they want, and do what they want no matter what the cost (even if it takes their life). All I can do is take it one day at a time, and put it in God's hands.

My husband has his Dr.'s appointment in 2 days. I hope that I am not putting too much stock into the appointment, but I am hoping that the Dr. will give him the "come to meetin Jesus talk". I know that it probably won't change anything, but he needs to hear about his distructive behavior from someone other than me. I will keep everyone posted - hopefully he will tell me what the Dr. tells him.

Thanks for the love and support,

jjaz

[ironpetal09]

Hello to all

Just wanted to let you know I read this thread and I raged and raged at this illness.

You are all in my thoughts and prayers.  

[izzyxx]

dear jill -

i couldn't help wondering if you would lose your husband before i got to the end of the comments. honestly, i don't know what i was hoping for, for you. my heart's just breaking for you, knowing what you must be going through even though my boyfriend went quickly. i don't know if i'd have been as strong as you're being had he lingered and been very ill and in pain. as i read here, i'm happy that you've found people to talk to. when your husband does go, i think you'll find that sometimes people don't stick as close to us as we may have hoped. people will say they don't know what to say, etc. i know that it didn't matter to me if they knew what to say .. it was OK with me if they didn't say anything. being there is enough and sometimes it's more than enough or all that you want.

i don't know you, you're on a different continent and here i am tearing up as i read you go through probably the toughest thing you'll ever have to face. and you're doing it so gracefully. people told me i too should go to al-anon, but i never did. i guess because he went so quickly. i think it's bound to help you though and i hope that it does. please, if you ever need someone to talk to, i want you to know that i'm here. at any time. any day. if you ever wanted to take it to email, just let me know or we can continue chatting here.

when i read your words, i'm filled with the realisation of what this disease can really entail. you're going through so much and i feel like there was so much i wasn't told until he was gone. i remember one time he was in the hospital with an internal hemorrhoid and he'd lost a dangerous amount of blood by the time he got to the hospital, and i can't help knowing that he must've known, even then. i don't know if i could've had your strength. and as strong as you are, there will be times when you don't want to be strong and you want to lean on someone. just let yourself do that, as often as you need to. know there are people who really care, even if they've never met you. i'll keep healing thoughts close. and remember .. i'm a click away.

fondly,
izzy

[izzyxx]

my heart goes out to you. my boyfriend died at 44 so i don't think my words will be very encouraging. his death seemed so sudden to me. he wasn't nearly as ill as your husband seems to be. he wasn't really ill at all. about a year before he died his liver enyzmes tested high .. that was when he first found out about cirrhosis. he kept a lot of what the doctor said away from me and since he seemed to feel so fine, i was able to put it in my denial spot or something. when he went back to the doctor, he told me that since he had quit drinking, (he hadn't) that the enzymes tested more positively, better for him, i mean. he then told me the doctor told him he could drink wine occasionally. the fear that i was going to lose him must've shoved me into a place where i could hear a lie, but accept it. you'd have to know my boyfriend. very stubborn and the only one who could make up his mind for him, about anything. his father had been ill, totally bedridden. after his father passed, it seemed like he just gave up. started drinking the way he always had and two months later he too died. i only found out after his death about the stern talking to he got from his doctor. basically, "quit drinking now or you're GOING to die, and it's going to come fast." that was the understatement of a lifetime. he fell one night when he was drunk, ended up in the hospital, and a week later he was gone. that's what i mean about there being no real time when he'd be so seriously ill .. the way you're writing about and just from what i'd read. i had no idea he could even BE that close to death. however, when i saw him at the hospital the first time, i knew he'd be gone in a matter of days .. and he was. i'm still feeling so destroyed, fighting the barrage of grief that grabs you like nothing else you've ever experienced. in a way i'm glad he didn't suffer much, but i miss him terribly. it's only been 18 months. i wish i could go back, maybe there was something to be done differently, altho everyone tells me there was not. i lost my best friend of over 20 years. i hope you have better luck. i know a person cannot even get on a waiting list for a liver transplant unless they've ceased alcohol consumption for at least six months. it doesn't sound good. i'm sorry.
regards,
izzy

[boogieman]

hi there. so sorry to hear things aren't doing too good. only the mds can say what prognosis is. there is always hope and strength available to all of us no matter what happens. been a trying week for myself but i'm trying to stay positive. i always feel better after visiting this site. stay in touch and i'll be keeping you guys in my prayers. take care, gm

[jjaz]

I just thought I would check in and up date everyone. Nana I hope all is well with you and your husband.  I think of you often.

I am getting very worried for my husbands health. He has lost a lot of weight. Since he had the fluid drained from his abdomen, he has gone from 215 lbs. down to 181 lbs. His legs look very atrophied and are getting very weak. He is also complaining of constipation and pain in his liver. He has had pain in his feet for several years, but he has said that over the course of the last week or so the pain has gotten a lot worse. He has an appointment with his liver doctor in about a week and a half, but I'm scared of what he might tell us.

Does anyone have any thoughts? I'm afraid that his liver has developed cancer. Any help or advise is appreciated.

jjaz

[boogieman]

it's probably little consolation right now, but something good can come from your present situations. i watched my father drink himself to death and i almost succeeded in doing the same thing. although i can only speak for myself, i'm sure there are others here who feel the same way----i can't forget where i came from and i must remember that "there but for the grace of god, go i." you are both in my prayers. gm

[walternowotny]

He should go to hospital.His coagulation is not working(as a result of liver failure).He needs FFP(fresh frozen plasma) and other things.It can go fast from here....
Walter

[nanabandm]

Ain't it the truth!

My man has bleeding gums and nose now too and is in terrible pain in his spine. Slowing down a bit every day and I wake up wondering what the day will bring. I'm in work most of the day so on pins thinking I'll have a phone call. I can't understand and never will. xxxxx

[nanabandm]

Ain't it the truth!

My man has bleeding gums and nose now too and is in terrible pain in his spine. Slowing down a bit every day and I wake up wondering what the day will bring. I'm in work most of the day so on pins thinking I'll have a phone call. I can't understand and never will. xxxxx

[jjaz]

I have been tested for Hep C, and fortunately I tested negative.

The Dr.'s think that he picked up the Hep C from a surgery that he had in the early 80's. Since they didn't start testing the blood supply for Hep C until the early 1990's he probably got the disease from the blood transfusion that he had during his surgery. He was not a needle user, but he did use cocaine for a period of time. So who knows......

As far as his pain killers, he has been using them for about 3 years. His feet started swelling back in 2001 and at first the Dr.'s thought it was Gout. Unfortunately, the medication that is given for Gout is not very liver friendly and he started to feel worse. That is when they did extensive blood testing and found the Hep C. His foot pain got progressively worse, and some stupid Neurologist started him on the Oxycontin. Of course, my husband never admitted that he had a drinking problem otherwise rhe Dr. probably would not have started him on it.

Once he was diagnosed, I went to work full-time so that we would have health insurance to take care of him. At one point we had him on the list for a liver transplant, but they did random drug and alcohol testing and caught him drinking. Needless to say, he was promptly removed from the list. That was last March. He went to Rehab in April, but came back and started drinking again. Sometimes it is difficult for me to tell if he has been drinking or if he is just confused. I have to go with my gut instinct which says that he has been drinking. As I posted earlier, I have found where he stashes his bottles and I know when he is replenishing them.

My apologies, I did not mean to ramble on but I thought a little history was in order. My husband, like Nana's husband, is very head strong and does what he wants no matter what the consequences. All we can do is keep the rest of the family in order and try to take care ourselves. I'm finding out every day that you cannot help someone who won't help themselves. It still doesn't make it any easier. In the end, people like Nana and myself will pick up the pieces and move on.

jjaz

[walternowotny]

You also need to get tested for Hep C.Does your husband have a hx of  drug abuse?
Walter

[jjaz]

As strange as this may sound, It's nice to know that I'm not alone. Of course, I would rather not be going through this - I'm sure that you wish the same.
My husband has very swollen feet, and 2 weeks ago he had to have fluid drained from his belly. They extracted almost 4 liters! He constantly complains about his feet hurting (he has a neuropathy of his feet) and, of his back hurting. Not only does he drink, but he takes pain medicine (oxycontin) for his feet. I'm sure that the oxycontin is probably not the best thing for him to be taking. He also has Hep C. The bad thing about his drinking is that he says that he has stopped drinking, but I keep finding little bottles of whiskey hidden. I know where he stashes them and I can tell when he has been replacing the bottles with new ones. I had hoped that after his last hospital stay, it would have been enough to scare him straight. Unfortunately, it did not. Right before he went into the hospital he was sleeping alot - 14 to 18 hours a day. He was okay for a day or two after he was released from the hospital, but now he sleeping alot again.

I'm sure that we can help each other get through this and stay sane in the process.

Stay sane and stay strong!

jjaz

[nanabandm]

Hi - I've been off this for a while because I was exhausted at trying to make sense of it all. Yes, Jaz, our situations have spooky things in common.
My husband doesn't acknowledge he has a problem but I KNOW he knows that he does. He's told me not to cremate him and often talks about dying but in a comical way. He has drunk about 50 pints of Guinness this weekend. Unbelievable that someone has the capacity to drink that much and not get or seem drunk. He doesn't pass that much water though and it's a funny colour. Like algae. When he poos it's like a series of small explosions and it's all black and stinks. He isn't taking his meds at all any more so is swelling up daily and starting to shake more and more. His gums are now bleeding again. The pain he is in every evening is terrible. His back. I don't think it's muscular as his legs won't work. It might be his nervous system - I don't know. I'm just going on what the doctors told me the last time he was in.
I'm watching him go downhill every day and I'm sure that soon his body will have to shut down because of what he's putting it through. ~The little bit of liver he has left must be screaming. I'm carrying on as normal but it was his birthday on the 2nd and I can't see him lasting til Christmas let alone until his next birthday. He's 45. It's obscene.
I'll be back online later. Thanks for your message. Sorry you are going through it too. God what a mess! xxxxxx

[jjaz]

You are in my thoughts and prayers. I too, have been struggling with my husbands "death wish". He is a little different in the fact that he pretends to be doing all the right things: goes to AA meetings in the morning and Celebrate Recovery meetings on Friday evenings. Its all show and I know it.
It is so difficult seeing someone you love throw everything away. He has also been in and out of the hospital - 2 visits in the last month. Has your husband talked about his pain, or about the fact that he does not want to go on? The other night my husband told me that he thought that he was dying and told me that he wanted to be cremated when he dies. It just crushed me to hear him speak like that. I'm sorry, I don't mean to go on about me, but I think that we have a lot in common. I KNOW what your going through! Maybe we can console each other, and remind each other of the other things in life that are important - ourselves and the other members of our family.

Lots of Love!

jjaz

[boogieman]

just wanted to say hello and let you know you folks have been in my thoughts and prayers.