I have read this anti-soy stuff for over three decades now, as I was in the health food biz as a store manager for 18 years. I can tell you it was all started by the same people who came out with the "Beef: it's what's for dinner" ads, which are paid for partly by the Dept. of Agriculture, just as the milk ads are. I don't doubt the theoretical questions raised about soy. What you won't find in any of the research is any of those consequences tied to actual human ingestion. There's someone on this board, and who knows, it might be you, who is extremely anti-soy and we have been going back and forth on this for a long time now. All I ask is for a large study of Asians, who eat soy sometimes three times a day, mostly tofu, and don't suffer any of these problems from it as far as we know. The only questions have been raised in the US, where soy is a challenge to meat as a protein source. And again, soy doesn't contain estrogen. It is estrogenic, which is completely different. That generally means that the body might make more estrogen from the food, but only if the body sees a need for it. And again, since flax and soy have been associated, rightly or wrongly, with increased prostate cancer, if they were in fact creating more estrogen, that should reduce prostate cancer. What you also have to consider is that people who replace meat with soy in their diets generally become healthier, cutting down on cancer and heart disease especially, the two greatest killers in western society. We know that overconsumption of meat will increase these diseases, as well as inflammatory diseases such as arthritis. So you're completely ignoring all the positive studies of the benefits of soy and flax and only talking about the negative, which weren't learned through double blind studies or long-term nutrient intake studies but are based on theoretical concerns due to certain ingredients in the foods. Now, I personally don't care what people eat as long as they exercise balance and caution. I do use soy milk and I do eat tofu products, but not every day, and I avoid the soy derivatives because I don't think they're good for you. The same people who tell you not to eat soy generally say it's okay to eat fermented soy, such as tempeh and miso, which leads one to wonder, since they are also estrogenic. So again, there's reality, and there's theory, and the theory of soy being bad for people has not yet moved from the theoretical to the actual, and the balance of scientific opinion is way over on the positive side. As for the huge switch in agriculture to soy, yes, that's true, but it's not for consumption in the US, it's almost all sold to China, Japan, Vietnam, Thailand, etc. where soy is the staple food and people have fewer health problems than Americans of the nature you're describing. Those problems do go up, however, if they move to the US and switch to a more western diet, meaning more meat. Again, I don't recommend anyone go out and go nuts on eating soy, I'm not a vegan or vegetarian, I believe in balance, but I'm also wary of these scare stories that don't match the facts on the ground. I would always eat organic if I could, and I would always try and avoid overly processed food of any type, and I would try not to eat the same food over and over. Soy is a common allergen, so there's that as well. There are also a lot of legumes out there, that, when combined with a whole grain, provide a whole protein, so there's no need for anyone to think soy is necessary for health. It isn't.
Welcome to the forum.
Directly I do not see any interaction that has to do with diabetes.
The long term effects are that the omega 3 to omega 6 ratio will be improved and consequently less inflammation and better health.
We normally consume way too much omega 6 through our diets.
Make sure that the omega 3 is not from flax, as it is inflammatory and dangerous. ( Most Doctors do not know this, yet! ) . Best is from small cold water fish oil-sardines, anchovies.
Have no idea where this idea of flax seed oil comes from -- would like to hear more. Awful lot of people eating flax seeds for the last several thousand years for this to suddenly come up, but I'm open to new info if you have it. What is true is that the Omega 3 in flax seed oil is different from that in fish oil, and flax seed oil contains more than just omega 3 oils, whereas most fish oil is artificially purified to eliminate many other beneficial oils that would also be a fish. Since you can get cold processed organically grown flax, whereas fish are contaminated pretty much everywhere now, and for vegetarians, flax is a good source of oil, but for a diabetic, fish oil probably would be a good choice. Hemp seed oil is another good source of omega 3 fats. Not only should this be safe for diabetics, your doctor would probably recommend it, since it helps the heart and helps with circulation.
Meaning omega 3 oils, not necessarily one particular source of it. But just to add, high lignan flax oil also helps with other aspects of diabetes, including digestion. Which is to say, one should seldom rely on just one source for nutrients.
Okay, I googled flax oil myself. Apparently, one book by one person claims that the ALA in flax oil isn't converted efficiently in some people, and that it may be connected to other illnesses. This isn't proven info, but it is out there, and so should be considered seriously. Personally, I take a small amount of flax oil every day and a lot of fish oil, so I'm not personally concerned. I guess we all have some research to do. But again, the oils in flax have always been different than the oil in fish. Just for everyone's info, there's a relatively new fish oil in town, by New Chapter, that doesn't purify the oil. It claims to be more like a cold processed oil. Therefore, it contains many omega oils other than just the two found in other purified fish oil products, because fish naturally, like flax and hemp, contains lots of different fats. Food certainly is complicated, particularly when you consider all fish is contaminated with heavy metals thanks to coal burning. What a world.
Thank you for the information. you mention that the omega from flax is dangerous. I take flaxseed everyday with my yogurt. Why is it bad?
Yes, I´ve read about omega fish being contaminated with heavy metals
Hi to eevryone!
Your cardiologist may not know it, but flax oil hardly converts to omega-3's; only 2% at best of the omega-3 linolenic acid component is converted to the useful omega-3 fats DHA and EPA, and that is IF there are no omega-6 fats competing for uptake.
Other than that, the linolenic acid in flax oil has no known use in the body, and flax oil obviously has shortcomings by containing a relatively high amount of inflammatory omega-6 linoleic acid.
Flax seed oil along with soy and any other high estrogen foods should be avoided at all cost and that goes for women as well as men.
The last thing you need to do is take them regularly every day.
It's one of the worst things you can do for your health.
Lots has been written about phytoestrogens ,
but for now look up "Dr William Wong" on this topic.
Consumption of flax seeds should be limited due to cyanogenic glycosides (chemicals that release cyanide when digested). High heat would neutralize this, however the heat would render the flax seed oil harmful ( not stable at higher heats and becomes inflammatory in the body).
As far as omega-3 from fish, only cold water small fish - anchovies and sardines- from high quality nutraceutical companies would be acceptable.
There are safe vegan omega 3 supplements made from some type of algae, that those fish feed from.
They are rather expensive. I cannot remember the brand as this was a few years ago.
Hemp oil contains as much as 70 percent Polyunsaturated Fatty Acids ( PUFAs)
This, could negatively affect your health, as already the North American Diet is loaded with
PUFAs (Immunosuppressive and potentially increase risk in breast cancer and heart disease).
Please do your own research before making any decisions about your health.
Blessings to all
Actually, you've got problems with the DHA made from the algae, too. It's not generally absorbed by humans. Fish eat red marine algae naturally, which is how they get the DHA that is one of the two omega 3 oils people take fish oil for, but people don't. People do eat a lot of different algaes, but not red algae. That's why farm raised fish don't have omega 3 fats in them -- they don't eat the algae. There are some newer algae based supplements claiming to be digestible by humans, but like the flax info above, this is based on only one researcher. That makes it problematic. A lot of research to be done here, but one has to consider the historic use of flax and soy. By the way, soy isn't estrogenic, it's balancing, meaning in will only produce estrogen in bodies that signal a need for it. That's why the Chinese and Japanese have had no problems, obviously, producing children, which they would if consuming soy and flax limited the male production of testosterone. People consuming soy also wouldn't have prostate cancer, since they'd have low testosterone. So the fact these substances do certain things in people who need it doesn't mean it will do that in people who don't. Same with hormone balancing herbs such as cohosh -- techinically estrogenic, but if the body doesn't need more estrogen, it won't produce much of it. Same with red clover, the highest estrogenic food we know of, to my knowledge. Now, do some people suffer from consuming these foods? I don't know -- the research is all theoretical, not based on actual humans consuming actual food. I look forward to those who finally do these actual studies instead of just using theoretical info as if these were drugs and not synergistic foods. But anyone who wants to be cautious can avoid all sorts of things, but the things they replace them with won't be any safer. Less soy usually means more animal food, and we know that's not safe, so what's a person to do? Balance. Good discussion, but let's not take any of this as gospel, particularly since much of the research is very biased both pro and con, given the controversial nature of flax and hemp (they're really cheap and easy to grow organically, and you can make clothing and paper and virtually anything from them) and soy (competes with animal protein, since soy is a rare complete protein in the vegetable world). Keep us the good conversation.
Just to add one more thing, my own theory is the reason people are starting to think there may be a problem with foods that can be estrogenic that have been consumed for centuries with no observed ill effects may owe to the modern prevalence of petrochemicals in virtually everything, from plastics to pesticides to fertilizer to, well, everything. Petrochemicals are definitely estrogenic, and aren't balancing, and cause a vast amount of disease. Add to this omnipresence the foods that have some estrogenic effects, and naturally, the foods are going to be blamed, because nobody wants to do without petrochemicals. But this is just my theory, and again, the way to prove it would be to study Asians who consume the most foods we consider estrogenic and see if men are suddenly having the problems associated with this, since we know from common sense observation they haven't in the past or they wouldn't have been able to reproduce so prolifically.
Hey paxiled - is there any way i can contact you via email? You've commented on a couple of my posts, and I would like to ask you a few questions about Paxil withdrawal. Let me know if this is something you would be ok with. Thanks! AC.
Here is just a sampling of the health effects that have been linked to soy consumption:
From:"The truth about Soy foods", articlesmercola.com
Immune system impairment
Severe, potentially fatal food allergies
Danger during pregnancy and nursing
Also check: "The newest Research on why you should avoid Soy"
There are tons of credible, NON-industry funded studies on this.
For some of you that like to do research , I suggest you check
Summary of The "CARS" Checklist for Research Source Evaluation
trustworthy source, author’s credentials, evidence of quality control, known or respected authority, organizational support. Goal: an authoritative source, a source that supplies some good evidence that allows you to trust it.
up to date, factual, detailed, exact, comprehensive, audience and purpose reflect intentions of completeness and accuracy. Goal: a source that is correct today (not yesterday), a source that gives the whole truth.
fair, balanced, objective, reasoned, no conflict of interest, absence of fallacies or slanted tone. Goal: a source that engages the subject thoughtfully and reasonably, concerned with the truth.
listed sources, contact information, available corroboration, claims supported, documentation supplied. Goal: a source that provides convincing evidence for the claims made, a source you can triangulate (find at least two other sources that support it).
Be very careful when making decisions about your health!
Follow the money trails. Those trails usually lead you to the actual truth behind all the
propaganda and pseudoscience. The soy industry Is HUGE! Multi billion dollar sales annually.
And if you think the Government is there to protect you, think again!
From Orange Agent, to Genetically Engineered seeds and foods, to Chemotherapy drugs
and thousands of other controversial substances, the government has given its approval
and its blessing.
After the Food and Drug Administration gave the poultry industry permission to use fluoroquinolones to treat chickens in 1995, contrary to advice from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the increase in bacteria resistance among humans rose from almost nothing to about 18 percent.
Our society is already facing a health crisis. (Can't you tell from being on this forum?)
We all need to be vigilant and proactive, seek the truth, convince our representatives in government to do the right thing- regarding our health and well-being. And if we don't do this for us, we MUST do it for our children! It is imperative and urgent.
I guess I'm venting a bit tonight. It actually feels better now...
Thank you for reading this post. And your comments are always welcome!
Blessings to all,
Thank you for the information. I didn´t know all this about flaxseed oil. I do not take the oild but eat flaxseed with my cereal. Does everything that you mention apply for flaxseed too?.
You mentioned that soy has estrogens? how does that affect women???
Food decisions, are so difficult to me. I read so many bad things about regular milk (lactase, caseine), that I started taking soy milk. But now I am not sure if it is a good decision.
It seems that the best thing one can do is to switch/change foods everyday. Not eat the same thing everyday.
As per my earlier post:
"Consumption of flax seeds should be limited due to cyanogenic glycosides (chemicals that release cyanide when digested). High heat would neutralize this, however the heat would render the flax seed oil harmful ( not stable at higher heats and becomes inflammatory in the body)". That applies to both genders.
There are gender specific issues and concerns. Please send me directly a message for more info (as this can become an extremely long off topic thread) if you want.
I would suggest only small amounts of organic origin.
Should your immune system be functioning well, there's no reason for your body,
not to be able to handle it. Just follow the fundamental health rules and it will be fine.
Thank you for the information
Thank you for the information. It is very useful
Asians eat a lot of soy in their diet. Soy formula is a good choice for infants,
Soy-containing foods help prevent osteoporosis, Soy is a healthy food for adults,
Soy helps improve libido in men.
The answer to all of the above statements is false.
Those who eat large amounts of soy, especially non-fermented soy, have severe hormonal imbalances that are very difficult or impossible to correct without eliminating or
drastically reducing soy in the diet.
Soy is contained in almost 60 percent of grocerystore food. It is in vegetable burgers and hot dogs and is a hidden ingredient in many other foods. And don’t forget soy milk.
The soy nut was first used by the Chinese in the ancient Chou Dynasty.
The Chinese also were the first to use the fermentation process to make soybean paste. Fermentation refers to the growth of microorganisms in food. Common
Western foods and beverages are fermented, such as The soy used in our country, however, is primarily non-fermented soy in the form of soy-protein isolate and soy milk. It is the non-fermented form of soy that is causing so many of the problems with soy foods.
The soy industry would have you believe that Asians eat lots of soy. Since Asians suffer less chronic illness than most Western people, then soy must be a healthy food. How much soy do Asians actually eat? One study found that Chinese ate approximately 2
teaspoons to 2 tablespoons of soy a day.1 Soy is not eaten in large amounts in Asian countries; rather, it is used as a condiment.
What type of soy do we eat in the United States? Infants are exposed to soy formula, and adults ingest soy milk. Beyond those, other soy items also abound: soy milk, soy hot dogs, soy meats, soy energy bars, as well as many other food sources.
Most of these “Western” food sources contain soyprotein isolate, which is a highly processed, devitalized, and toxic food source that needs to be avoided.
In 1997, researchers reported that infants fed a soy formula ingested a whopping 28 to 47 milligrams (mg) of isoflavones — estrogen-like compounds found in soy. The author of this study concluded, “The daily exposure of infants to isoflavones in soy infantformulas
is six- to elevenfold higher on a body-weight basis than the dose that has hormonal effects in adults consuming soy foods. Circulating concentrations of isoflavones in the seven infants fed soy-based formula were 13,000 times to 22,000 times higher than plasma estradiol concentrations in early life, and may be sufficient to exert biological effects, whereas the contribution of isoflavones from breast milk and cow
milk is negligible.” Researchers have estimated that an infant exclusively fed soy formula received the estrogen equivalent of five birth-control pills per day.
the early development of puberty in young girls. Girls are developing secondary sexual characteristics at an earlier and earlier age. There is no question that the age
of puberty when a young girl begins to menstruate has declined during the past 20 years.
One percent of girls show signs of breast development before age three. A study in 1997
determined that, by eight years of age, 8 percent of Caucasian girls and nearly 25 percent of African-American girls show signs of early pubertal
development.This early pubertal development in girls is the direct result of the estrogens so ubiquitous in the environment. These “xeno-estrogens” are found in plastics, pesticides, animal foods, and soy. Why would African-American children be exhibiting early pubertal signs at a higher rate than Caucasian children? Because soy formula use is higher among
African-American children. As Kaayla Daniels, author of a wonderful book, The Whole Soy Story, states, “Because of perceived or real lactose intolerance, African-American babies are much more likely to receive soy formula” compared with Caucasian babies.5 In Puerto Rico, researchers found soy infant feeding was associated with early puberty signs in girls.
What are the problems with precocious puberty? We have an epidemic of breast cancer in the United States, for one. Presently, women in the United States have almost a one in seven chance of getting breast cancer. Furthermore, there are rapidly increasing rates of hormone-sensitive cancers, such as uterine and ovarian cancer.
Animal studies have shown that the estrogen-like isoflavone genistein (found in soy) given to pregnant rats could increase changes leading to breast cancer
(and possibly other hormone-sensitive cancers) in the offspring.
Newborn boys also should not be given soy formula. The excess amount of phytoestrogen found in soy is bound to cause problems for the newborn males. There has been a near epidemic of male-birth genital problems during the past 20 years.
Hypospadias, a condition that is a birth defect of the urethra in males, has increased 200 percent over the last two decades. Researchers have reported that boys born to mothers who maintained a vegetarian diet had a greater exposure to estrogen-like chemicals.
The Israeli Health Ministry recently issued a warning on ingesting soy. It recommended that the consumption of soy foods be limited for young children and adults, and that soy formula should be avoided altogether by infants. It’s too bad our own
FDA does not follow this sage advice.
SORRY!! The above article was from a report by DR. Brownstein
Once again, totally incorrect info posted above. The reason African Americans suffer more disease is because they suffer more disease of every type. There is no evidence whatsoever described above that African Americans eat more soy formula -- the person just guessed based on perceived lactose intolerance, which is actually true. People who feed their infants soy formula are a tiny amount of people, because nobody believes soy formula is good for you. Maybe some vegans use it for ideological purposes, but soy doesn't contain anything that's in breast milk except protein. But people who use dairy formula also suffer from greater amounts of developmental disease. As for Asians eating little soy every day, says who? Ever hang around Orientals? Apparently not, because they eat tofu every day. They do, however, eat smaller meals than Americans, but as they're getting wealthier, they're turning more to meat. As for the myth that Orientals eat mostly fermented soy, that's also untrue. Only the Japanese, perhaps, and the Indonesians eat fermented soy as staple foods, but the Japanese eat very small amounts of it, whereas they eat a lot of tofu and edamame, or basically whole soy beans. It is true they use soy as a condiment, and that is mostly fermented, but they also use soy oil as their primary cooking oil. And they invented soy milk, not us -- it didn't get into the US until a few decades ago, whereas Asians have been drinking it for centuries, as it's a byproduct of making tofu. Once again, you're ignoring the biggest difference, which is becoming less and less of a difference, which is the prevalence in the US of meat eating and the hormones that are in it, and the hormonal properties of petrochemicals, which we're practically made of now. These are all estrogenic, and until you control for that, you have nothing. African Americans live predominantly in the most polluted areas, which are also the areas most affected by petrochemicals, and they also live where getting fresh fruits and vegetables is virtually impossible and processed food is plentiful. Also, not all soy hot dogs and burgers and such use isolated vegetable protein -- only the crap does. The good stuff sold in good health food stores is mostly made of good ol' tofu. I know because, unlike the other posters her, I actually managed health food stores and sold the stuff, and knew the ingredients. The main problem with these foods is the same problem with any ready to eat food, which is high sodium content and often too many ingredients, but if you know which brands to buy, you can avoid that, too. Now, in the supermarkets, yes, the soy products will be the wrong kind of soy, and the Seventh Day Adventist products that many people eat have nothing that's actually food in them. These are the old soy products you used to see before health food became more popular. If you're a bad shopper and don't check ingredients, well, it doesn't matter if you're eating soy or Campbell's chunky soup, you're going to be ingesting a lot of crap. But they don't eat this kind of stuff in the Far East, or at least they didn't until recently. Tell me, do you think the Chinese are better off now that they're eating tons of Kentucky Fried Chicken instead of the small portions of tofu in soup or with mixed veggies they used to eat? Of course not. Again, I'm not telling anyone to go eat soy every day, or to eat highly processed soy derivatives. But you don't have to. If you do, you probably also eat all the other crap sold in supermarkets and Whole Foods and fast food restaurants, and then you better hope you have a strong constitution.
Thank you for the information