Seeking White Witches and Herbalists for Cirhhosis

[mac790]

Hey All, I hope everyone is keeping their SVR status, or in the process of getting it. Harvoni is due to bring in over 7 billion dollars to Gilead in 2015. I can't even imagine that amount of $$, it is akin to contemplating the size of our home galaxy. It is simply beyond comprehension...   Anyway, I felt I owed it to my liver, after so many years of beating it with a virtual hammer, to assist in tissue regeneration any way possible. I have read a lot online, there is almost total agreement on what to avoid: Foods to avoid, watch your protein intake, no ETOH or illicit drugs (N.S.), but there are so many claims/counter claims as to what you SHOULD be doing. Milk thistle, reishi mushrooms, zinc, licorice ( do they mean Twizzlers? If so, count me in...), and on it goes ad infinitum. There are no more traveling vendors selling "Dr. Jergov's Miracle Liver and Lumbago Cure" ( which was usually a toxic brew of laudanum, ETOH, saparilla and maybe a few other goodies such as belladonna, cocaine, etc...) Ah, the good old days. What do you folks who incorproate herbs and special foods into your daily regimen for cirhhosis recommend? I have friended a few naturalists in my time here, so please feel free to enlighten me. I am wary as a former fitness enthusiast that many of the supplement claims are pure BS, such as selling products with plant sterols in them and claiming they have similar effects to truly bioactive steroids, "fat burners" that are nothing but a big dose of caffeine related compounds, etc... I seek your guidance, oh practicioners of the white healing arts.   Take Care All,  mac

[Paxiled]

Actually, Linus Pauling was wrong about Vitamin C.  As it's very acidic, it's also not risk free.  Reading about the supplement industry is hard to do, because it's hard to distinguish between allopathic industry funded attacks and just bad natural products.  Centrum Silver is a bad supplement, as are all drugstore vitamins -- they don't use the best absorbed versions of minerals, for one thing, they tend not to have enough of anything to be of help because they're usually one daily, which isn't large enough to contain forms of minerals that can be absorbed well, and they have additives we don't need to consume.  You are right -- there's an awful lot of flimflammery in the "natural" medicine field, and much of what you see advertised and on the internet isn't good stuff, isn't marketed by anyone who knows what they're doing, and buys their ingredients on the spot market, which means a lot of tainted stuff in them potentially.  And you're right, there are no miracle weight loss products and copper wrist bands don't work, but not because there's no science behind copper -- it can be useful in the right forms.  That's why, particularly since you have a serious disease, I don't think we can be very helpful to you -- you have very special needs and also very special precautions.  I managed health food stores for many years, and come companies have very good reputations and are run by very qualified people, but most at places such as GNC and on the net aren't.  It takes years to learn this stuff.  Which is why I still recommend, if you're serious about this addition to your regime, that you see an expert who has studied it -- and even then, they'll try to sell you "professional" supplements that are often worse than the best ones on the shelf of a good health food store.  It just takes a lot of time to learn if you want to do it yourself.  The essential problem is, you're not going to find conclusive research on any natural product because of the lack of money to do that research on a large enough sample of people -- the only reason pharmaceutical products can do it is the promise of a patent at the end of the road that will create a monopoly and the bonanza of a monopoly and the automatic market created by detail sales people working doctors, who know almost nothing about the meds they prescribe.  It's sad, but greed destroys a lot of good that could be done.  But there's a long history in some natural medicine and some good research on vitamins and amino acids because they were initially pharmaceutical products.  I think it's worth pursuing for you, but you are better able than I to know if you have the time and inclination and money (no insurance for natural medicine) to do it.  Whatever you choose to do, I hope it all works out for the best.  

[mac790]

Hey, I'm not sure where I was unclear, but anyway, I am no longer a host for the GT1a strain of the HCV. I had viral titer results of "totally not detectable" since week 4 in a 12 week tx clinical trial sponsored by Merck, # 5172-068. It is 100 mg. of Grazoprevir, and 50 mg. of Elbasvir, combined in one tablet. I have been off the meds since 11-06-14. I have done reading about the supplement industry, and their track record is nothing to be proud of. Natural ED/PE pills for men, miracle weight loss tablets/shakes, copper wrist bands to cure all sorts of pain syndromes, the list goes on...  Even taking a Centrum Silver for Men contains a lot of ingredients that will simply be excreted in the urine, with no beneficial effects. I'll take Linus Pauling's word for it, that Vitamin C is the best thing for you, and what C you can't use, you do eliminate. I am staring at a precarious future with a Stage 5 cirhhotic liver, and was looking for some soundly researched natural supplements that have been shown to help persons with chronic liver disease, not get involved in studying the field of naturopathic/herbal medicine, for which I have neither the time nor the inclination. I have already learned more about pan genotypic protease inhibitors and NS5A replication complex inhibitors, the progression of HCV and cirhhosis, than I ever wanted to know, thank you.         mac
  i

[Paxiled]

Again, as it appears you are on medication, you must be very careful with the liver -- milk thistle is out.  You don't want to wash the medication out of your system before it has a chance to work.  As for your claim on the "active ingredient" in milk thistle, silymarin, standardizing an herb is basically making a pharmaceutical product out of it.  So if you're willing to take drugs that have pretty slim studies and often pretty slim success, why question how much milk thistle it takes to produce silymarin?  But of course, there are probably synergistic elements in milk thistle that also help -- you don't have to buy standardized herbs, but for the liver, I would.  That is, if I were going to use milk thistle.  Look, Hippocrates was an herbalist by and large, the "father" of modern medicine.  Most drugs were isolated and the synthesized from plants, the reason being the plants worked or they wouldn't have bothered.  They just don't work as fast or as profitably as medication (you can't patent a plant).  Most of what I mentioned work because of the improvement of liver function and the presence of antioxidants which are specific to the liver.  If you really want to pursue this seriously, you need to start reading and you need to see a practitioner who knows what they're doing.  As is said, there are practitioners of integrated medicine, who are physicians who combine allopathic with natural medicine.  Your skepticism is justified to an extent, but it should extend equally to allopathic medicine -- the problem isn't the medicine, it's the greed.  Nobody can eliminate that factor for you, so you study and do the best you can.  Good luck.

[mac790]

Hey, I'm the lucky owner of a Stage 5/6 cirhhotic liver. The HCV had almost 30 years of a nice, warm and cozy squatters flat to hang out in and feast on my healthy liver tissue. I was cured with a clinical trial of a Merck drug soon to be on the market, a real great combo of 2 meds in one pill, for most GTs, and stages of cirhhosis. In fact, the cirhhotic group had an ever higher SVR rate, but not clinically significant in reality: 94% on non-responders to INF based txs w/o cirhhosis achieved SVR, whereas 97% of cirhhotics did. I'm wary of the claims supplement makers are allowed to trumpet, I not only don't wish to waste money, but would also like to avoid making matters worse. I know there have been actual clinical trials on the active ingredient in milk thistle, but who knows how many pounds of the herb had to be processed to make the dosage strength they were using? I was just looking for some simple, safe and not too costly ways of improving my slim chances of not progressing to ESLD. My trial contacts were bluntly honest-- any improvement, if it did happen, would be along time in coming. That is why I am looking to improve my chances...   Thanks,     mac

[Paxiled]

You didn't say clearly whether or not you have cirrhosis, or whether you're trying to prevent it.  You also don't say if you're on medication.  Your basic premise is the foundation:  put good stuff in, don't put bad stuff in.  That's still the mainstay of all natural healing.  There are herbs and supplements that are very good for the liver, but some are protective while others are cleansing.  If you're on medication you don't want to cleanse, which means herbs such as  milk thistle, because it will potentially wash out medication.  There are ways of finessing this, but it's hard to do if you're not an expert in it.  For example, glutathione is the strongest antioxidant specific to the liver, but you can't take it directly as a supplement as it doesn't get absorbed, so the best source for it is wheat grass.  Reishi mushrooms are actually quite good for you -- did you know that statins were isolated from traditionally used Chinese mushrooms? -- but it won't help your liver much.  Licorice isn't specific to the liver, and can raise blood pressure in some people.  Dandelion is a wonderful food for the liver, and it's also a great medicinal herb.  So are the docks, especially burdock.  Alpha lipoic acid is a great antioxidant for the liver, as well as for other parts of the body.  Artichoke is great for liver function, as it helps the liver and gall bladder connect to do their thing.  So yeah, there's a lot out there you can try, but it's unlikely you're going to figure this out on this website or on your own if you have no background in plant medicine.  There are a lot of books to read out there, and practitioners of integrated medicine, who combine natural medicine with allopathic medicine, and herbalists and naturopaths to consult.  Also remember, different cultures have different herbal traditions and use different things.  But again, it's good you've started with the primary thing, which is, good stuff in, bad stuff out.

[hepcandme]

I think that Gilead has another bazillion dollars to make by finding a way for a diseased liver to regenerate

When I had breast cancer, there were so many people who offered outlandish "natural" suggestions including - "Drink baking soda in water 6 times a day. It's guaranteed to cure your cancer"

In fact, my son and I still joke that my epitaph should read:

"She Should Have Done More Yoga"

I am still up for ideas but ya gotta weigh the western with the eastern.

Cancer, Cirrhosis, I'm goin with what works. Not to see that they can't work together