St Johns wort n depression getting worse...need advice

[Sad_Sam]

I started St.Johns Wort 3 days ago now because i have been suffering really badly with both anxiety and depression.  I have tried the standard anti-depressants but side effects are too great for me to cope with so after trying to cope without any drugs for several months now i've had enough and resorted to SJW.  Im taking 450mg a day, recommended dose to build up to 900mg.

My question is can SJW make you feel worse in the beginning of taking it?  The last two days my mood has taken a turn for the worse, i sat this morning crying into my cereal and talking to myself in the mirror telling myself what a loser i am. I just feel so emotional and keep crying for no reason.  I am told time and time again that with standard anti-d's you feel worse before getting better but is this the same with SJW????

My CPN n shrink knw im starting SJW but they are not experts on it so there is no point asking them for advice.  So please can anyone give me some anwers.   Thank you.

[Paxiled]

I don't want to tell you not to take something that works for you, but those professional supplements are just ways to get you to have to buy it from your practitioner.  They aren't necessarily the best supplements.  For example, SJW and B vitamins should generally be taken with meals, while the tyrosine and 5-HTP should be taken apart from meals.  Including them in one supplement isn't wise, and doesn't allow you to play around with dosages.  And GABA supplements don't pass the blood/brain barrier, so they seldom work and often cause more anxiety.  The better way is to take taurine, which is a quasi-amino acid that makes GABA, and again is best taken apart from meals.  But you shouldn't work with GABA if you're taking klonopin, since it works on GABA.

[Northcoast]

Hope you are feeling better.  My Naturopath just put me on a supplement that has SJW, 5-HTP, L-Tyrosine and some B vitamins.  I believe only professionals can get this particular brand.  She told me I could double the dose after one week.  But I'm actually feeling kind of good even before starting on the supplement, so I'll stay at the initial dose for a while.  She also wanted to put me on GABA but since I'm on Klonopin for anxiety she advised against it.  Good luck to you!

[muffy65]

I didn't do well on St. John's Wort...... later I read that people who are Bi-Polar should not take SJW.  Could you be Bi-Polar?

[Paxiled]

Usually I prefer tinctures, but in the case of SJW, I think the capsules standardized for hyperforins have the best research behind them.  SJW is a complicated herb that also acts as an anti-viral and an aid to nerve problems -- for that, I'd take the tincture.  But for depression, I think the standardized capsules are probably better.  As for brand, I completely agree -- gotta be careful here.  That's why it's good to have a quality health food store to shop at.  While I hate Whole Foods for driving the good health foods stores out of business, other than their store brand, they won't carry any crap.  Just won't do it.  Their selection is poor, but what they do carry will be pretty good quality.

[pattifan]

Hi Sad Sam,

No, your current dose isn't too high, but if you're at all worried just talk to your CPN. St John's Wort can have side effects but they are usually very mild and people get used to them very quickly. Whilst St John's Wort's beneficial effects can be felt after three days, most people find it takes two weeks to really feel the benefit.

I'm not surprised that you nearly threw your guts up after drinking it as tea! It's pretty disgusting! Most people take it as pills, capsules or tincture. Tincture is the most effective form, but you still have to drink it in water, so I think the pills or capsules would be better for you.

Remember that there is little control over herbal medicines. There are some cowboy companies producing it from poor quality herbs or with poor quality control. Some of these may contain very little of the active ingredient hypericin. Stick to a really good brand name (Neals Yard, Napiers, Bioforce etc) or have it made up by a qualified medical herbalist.

You got some very good advice about 5HTP (but again quality is everything). 5HPT is natural and non-habit forming and should be taken as well as, not instead of, the St John's Wort. It isn't better than St John's Wort, but the two work very well together. Dosage and frequency can be varied to suit yourself, up to 100mg 3 times a day, although you may find that 50mg 3 times a day may be enough. People who have trouble sleeping often take their whole dose at night.

Good luck and hope this helps.

[Sad_Sam]

Hi and thank-you for your response, so you think i should consider 5-HTP, is this better than SJW for more severe depression and anxiety? What is the recommended dose of 5-HTP to take?  Do you take it once a day or spread out?  Should i stop taking the SJW then and switch to 5-htp?  Im desprate for good advice hense all the questions.

Thank-you again..... ohh this morning after drinking half a cup of SJW as tea i nearly threw my guts up, feel so sick! Plus is the dose im currently taking too much?

[Paxiled]

Truth is, anything can cause anything in a particular individual.  Usually natural medicine does take time to work, and one remedy may not do the trick alone.  Anything that you feel gives you unpleasant side effects, then it's not for you.  However, given you already said you're suffering bad anxiety and depression, anything you try will be a major decision that can initially trigger a worsening of symptoms until it has a chance to work because new things can be stressors for us anxiety sufferers.  St. John's wort is generally used for mild depression, but not so much for anxiety.  Something you can add that covers both is 5-HTP, a metabolite of tryptophan that converts to serotonin in the body along with co-factors such as B6.  I suggest a book by Hyla Cass, a psychiatrist at UCLA, called Natural Highs -- it will give you a somewhat dated but still very valuable overview of what's available to try.  A naturopath or herbalist or some other professional in natural medicine can help you come up with a formula for this, which would include something that targets GABA and the adrenals as well.  Good luck to you.