Protein Supplements

[jbourne99]

I have a question whether I should or not supplement my diet with protein shake.  I have read good and bad things about whey protein.  Some studies indicate it is good and some say its unhealthy.  Unhealthy protein supplements especially whey is from cow's given growth hormones, steroids, antibiotics and etc.  The healthy one is organic and cold processed and that is promoted as best. Some studies say whey protein contains blood antigens and can induce some reactions in individuals that consume it.  I don't know how true is this.

I would like to supplement but which one should I take.  I am tired next day after exercise and sports and it takes long time to be okay.  Plus I am out of shape and that is also the reason.  How is vegan protein supplements.

I have also lost weight mostly muscle and bone, and that is most likely because of inactivity.  So any advice on what protein supplements are safe and easy digested and assimilated by our body.

This is article-For problems with non-organic whey protein see "Say No Way! To Whey!"
http://www.enerex.ca/articles/say_no_way_to_whey.htm

[gymdandee]

http://rawsangha.com/2011/04/13/raw-sangha-154-meat-glue-a-k-a-transglutaminase/


The saddest part of this entire story is that there is no regulation for using these products in the United States. So if you’re a meat eater chances are you’ve already ingested meat glue and didn’t have any opportunity to decline. In the European Union this product has been banned from use along with genetically modified foods in most places, I wonder why it’s taking the United States so long to catch up. I have a guess and it rhymes with money!

[jbourne99]

Yes, I do have many heath food stores around me.  They carry both isolate and concentrate and say both are good.  I don't think they know which one is better than other and don't know much about bodybuilding.  As for manufacturers, everyone ends up saying why their product is better than others. When I went to sports nutrition depot last time, the guys over there seem fit and know their fitness stuff and he recommended whey protein concentrate.  There is not such a big difference isolate has no lactose and other little differences.

Thanks for answering so many of my questions.

[Paxiled]

Isolate is considered better than concentrate.  It's what athletes and bodybuilders use.  But it doesn't stop there.  It also needs to have other factors that determine what's best.  But you should get some benefit from even an inferior product, and if it's the healthiest product you want, you'll have to go by something other than the manufacturer's website -- not the most objective source.  Do you have a good small health food store around you where someone knows the bodybuilding stuff?  I managed health food stores for 18 years, but only had one supplement guy in all that time who really knew the bodybuilding stuff.  We didn't consider it healthy, so we didn't learn much about it.  Good luck.

[M4Y0U]

As far as I know isolate is better which doesn't mean better quality. I am too thinking that the concentrate would be a wiser choice especially regarding your goals.

[jbourne99]

It is a good website.

From what I have read so far, they suggest whey protein isolate over whey protein concentrate.  They say isolate has more protein but from natural factors website, it's suggested that isolate are treated with heat and are somewhat denatured. NaturalFactros also say this is why isolate is poor quality than whey protein concentrate.  Now both contradict one another.  But I believe concentrate is better since it is treated with less heat and other chemical process etc.

What do you think?

[jbourne99]

It is a good website. From what I have read so far, they suggest whey protein isolate over whey protein concentrate.  They say isolate has more protein but from natural factors website, it's suggested that isolate are treated with heat and are somewhat denatured. NaturalFactros also say this is why isolate is poor quality than whey protein concentrate.  Now both contradict one another.  But I believe concentrate is better since it is treated with less heat and other chemical process etc.

What do you think?

[jbourne99]

okay

[M4Y0U]

No but I was very active and I was underweight. I guess i gained a bit of fat since i needed some but the I was more noticing the muscular mass without getting fat.

Here's a good website with good information on whey proteins.

http://www.wheyoflife.org/faq.cfm

[jbourne99]

Okay,

Just curious did you gain any fat since you were taking in a lot of calories?

[M4Y0U]

Yeah well to be honest I did use Quick Mass and I saw results but I only used it for 3 months.

One serving for the mass gaining was 1011 calories I think and I was taking eat between meals. That's a lot of fuel that you need to burn and it results in a mass gain. Then you can still use the product to maintain weight which is half-doses I think. Add creatine to the mix that is Quick Mass and you get water retention in your muscles=bigger muscles.

I gained roughly 10Ibs in 3-4 weeks training 3-4 times using endurance weight lift and cardiovascular a lot. So is it evident that I was not using all the calories but yes I gained muscular mass pretty quickly.

Look, high calories is not related to health and low calories is related to health. For optimal health I would avoid creatine and go the natural way with a healthy and well balanced diet. I would eat something like Vector cereals for breakfast with some fruits. Alternate sardines and tuna right after a workout. Stuff like that... If you feel like adding whey it is up to you.

M4

[jbourne99]

I belief same quick fix weight loss and artificial supplements are being used in T.V industry Hollywood for sure and somewhat in Bollywood besides good diet and exercise routines.

Yes, frame size does make some difference. I have seen students at school that are so thinner than me and they have gained lean physique.  I just checked my frame size and unfortunately is small frame size.  Darn it, but its not like scrawny.

M4 whether or not one uses Quick Mass or not, don`t you need hypercaloric intakes just not tooo much (that will add fat)  to build muscle anyway.

I will keep this information in my mind whenever I need reassurance.

[Paxiled]

First of all, to get to be a professional athlete you have to work very hard from a very young age, and so they build the body's potential when they're young.  Second, they're freaks of nature; that's what makes them so special.  Third, they have the ability to focus and block out distractions.  Fourth, by the time they're recognized, at a young age, as special, they get the best coaches, nutritional advice, massage therapists, etc.  If you notice, they get injured a lot, but as professionals they're expected to play hurt and they do.  They usually pay for it later.  They also probably use medical techniques that are actually harmful and wouldn't be recommended by a doctor who cared about health rather than getting someone ready for competitions that will determine a person's livelihood in what will be a very short career relative to other professions.  These people only have a few years to make their fortunes.  If you go back in time and look at athletes from before the huge compensation came in, you won't find the fitness level.  Look at Babe Ruth -- fat and slow.  Look at the old basketball players -- fleshy compared to the cut athletes of today.  It all about greed today, not the fun of the game.  When the money is that substantial, anyone of us would do things we wouldn't do otherwise.  For the average person, your career is not in your physique.  My guess is, if you're working out as often as you say you probably look better and are in better shape than 90% of the people alive.  If you keep working at it, you'll stay fit, and if you get a personal trainer or just learn from people who know what they're doing, you can learn to work on those areas you most want to improve.  

[jbourne99]

Both of you have reminded me some very good advice that I know already know.

I am not into get huge like Arnold or will ever take steroids, I am into getting more lean and building strength, stamina, agility and some muscle if possible, be more healthy and have more energy to do things.  I know my genetic potential limits me a lot.  The thing is I see people in university gym that are thinner with less muscle and not lean and after some time they are more lean with more strength and stamina and I am still the same from what I started with and still working hard and smart with no results.   I guess I have poor genes with regards to fitness.

It`s difficult to lose weight in my family even though we are not obese just overweight.  I also injure myself easily, and they don`t heal even with physiotherapy.  Genes......

Are there any good athletes that don`t use artificial means and unhealthy supplements to get and stay fit and are lean and have good amount of strength? I know genes play great role here.  What about athletes like Zidane, Christiano Ronaldo and Roger Fedrer? What do you think do they or not they do take some supplements that are maybe healthy or maybe not, to recover quicker to meet their busy schedule?

[gymdandee]

Listen to pax! I have a lot of information to add to this but it's to large to post just one more thing just remember anabolic steroids will cause testicular and penile atrophy. This means your vital organ and your balls will shrink, and the longer you take anabolic steroids, the smaller both will get.

[Paxiled]

The reason, by the way, for everyone, I said you'll probably get injured anyway is that, unfortunately, we all do age.  There is no cure for that, and the body does get older with us.  All the best athletes fight injuries.  Just the way it is for us weak humans.  So anyone who exercises hard for a long time will eventually get some nicks, but they'll still be healthier in all other ways.

[Paxiled]

My suspicion is growing that what you want is based more on appearance than health.  If you're not genetically suited to large muscle mass you won't be able to attain it except through artificial means.  If that's really what you want, it's not healthy, but go read one of The Arnold's old magazines.  They'll teach you how to buy and use illegal steroids, how to use creatine and eat masses of protein six times a day and what other supplements are hot today.  They'll tell you how to use uppers to allow you to work out longer and harder.  But have you ever looked at hunter gatherers?  They are trained to run all day, and do most everything through physical strength, yet they don't have huge muscle mass.  They are in fact usually quite lean.  Same with most martial artists -- they attain strength through speed, agility, mental focus, and skill.  Muscles that are too large will interfere with dexterity and limit movement.  But if that's what you're going for, you can learn how to do it.  I knew a guy who did it -- he was very thin, but through all of the techniques I described that made The Arnold so huge made him much larger.  They do work.  They aren't healthy, you pay for them down the road.  If what you want is to be fit and healthy, then you will attain a size that your genetic heritage has determined suits you, but you won't necessarily get big muscles and won't lose every bit of fat.  When you see the people of TV who look like that, they did it with surgery and artificial substances.  That's just the way it is.  Just relax, exercise for fitness and health and fun, you'll probably get injured anyway as we all do, but your heart will be strong and your circulation will be good and you'll sleep better, etc.  Isn't that good enough?  

[jbourne99]

I might start working out again and hopefully I will get better results.

[jbourne99]

I might start working out again and hopefully something better will happen

[jbourne99]

I have tried more cardio and more reps with light to moderate weights with no success.  I used to workout 3-4 times a week during year of 2007-2008 and was watching my diet, avoiding junk most of the time. I was also changing exercises to avoid plateau.  After all this time I gained some muscle and lost little fat, but I did not get little ripped if not completely ripped physique.  I still had same fat in my problem areas.  Nothing seems to work and that`s why I quit working out and now I just play sports recreationally  or just walk.

I sent an email question to natural factor regarding if it is organic and cold processed.  I read some customer reviews and documentation and they say it is healthy for consumption.

Jason

[enzymelover]

   What you say about soy is true. Soy isoflavones are damaging to your endocrine system and intestinal villi. Especially if you're a guy, you don't want to mess with soy. I've read a lot of research, because of it messing up my son.
My son actually had an organic acids test which showed, among other things, that he would particularly benefit from L-Carnitine. He had an elevated level of suberate, indicating a blocked, metabolic pathway in digestion of fats. Carnitine is the recommended amino acid because, as you said, it moves fat molecules into the mitochondria.
Carnitine is found in meat and dairy products. We were vegetarians until my son was 10, so that would explain a Carnitine deficiency, I guess.

Although he eats meat now, my son won't take the Carnitine, so I don't know if it would be enough to correct his deficiency. He has gained a lot of weight (fat)  since his surgery, so I'm going to keep trying to get him to take it.

[M4Y0U]

Ok,

I dunno if you need L-Carnitine supplementation, check with your diet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnitine#Food

Don't worry too much about the phytoestrogens if you are not allergic to soy. I do think soybean is very healthy food. Avoid soy supplements.

More cardiovascular and maybe reducing weight and do more repetitions for the weight loss like 3X12 or start with 2X12 before moving on to 3X12.

I own Natural Factors products and I do think it's a trusted company but they have a wide variety of products and some are better than other. Try to find reviews and documentation about the whey.

M4

[jbourne99]

Thanks to all of you for input in this matter.

I have tried whey factors by Natural Factors.  Have you heard of this M4Y0U?  

The only thing is that in the info pamphlet they don't say whether it is organic or not.  It does say 100% European 100% undenatured whey protein, low temperature, chemical free processing, low lactose and low carbs, added enzymes, cross flow microfiltered, increases glutathione and stimulates immunity.  The only thing missing is organic or not and whether it is cold processed.  I have tried this before without any issues, but didn't see any benefits either for 3 months.

As for my BMI, it is in 21, normal range. It was 26 before which is over-weight, but this was not right since I did have heavier bones and more muscle than now.

I am looking for long-term healthy fashion to increase muscle, bone mass and getting and staying in shape.  I do have burn fat especially from my hips, legs and abdominal areas.  How do I know how many calories do I require for building muscle and losing fat.  I read that you need more calories to build muscle and less calories or net deficit calories to burn fat.  But if you decrease calories don't you comprise muscle mass.  Should I do fat loss and muscle gain separately like cycles.  Or when I increase muscle I will decrease fat because fat feeds the muscle but don't over do calories from diet and supplements, is this right?

I am far away from soy stuff, except soy lecithin which is good for liver. Soy mimics like estrogen and has been linked with certain cancers.

Lastly, anyone has tried L-Carnitine, it is basically fat burn burner, it shovels fat molecules into mitochondria.

[M4Y0U]

You have received good advice from Paxiled. I would only had that in the options you have you must also consider your goals. If you want to achieve quick mass gain it's better to go with high fructose whey with all the amino acids and high in calories. This is kinda unhealthy when abused but it can work great when demanding your body extra energy like when you exercise. High fructose/high calories is very likely to make you gain weight. This process should be gradually reduced when your ideal BMI is reached, you want to get back to a more normal intake while you want to keep your BMI ideally go with a regular whey low in fructose but note that once you reached your ideal BMI you can slowly quit the supplementation and go with the healthy diet high in proteins which is way more healthy. Personally I would avoid creatine supplements even tho they are very likely to increase your body mass due to more water retention in your muscles. If you do take creatine supplements or whey with creatine I suggest you drink a lot of water.

Remember that quick performance enhancing products are not very healthy and this is even worse when not meeting the requirements for the energy produced by the extra intake.

Know your stuff, know your body and your goals and you should be able to choice wisely.

M4