follow up question RE: the dog with the murmur (right below)

[curlydog415]

thank you for your response!  i have a couple of more questions:  1.  is it possible or likely that he could have had this murmur for many years?  i don't recall the vet checking his heart when he went in for shots, etc...  the last time he had an illness he had a sprained back at 5 yrs old and i think that was the last time his heart was listened to.  2.  if he ever did start to become symptomatic, does medication generally help dogs like him to live an average or even long life span?  3.  like i said earlier he is extremely active, should we limit his activity or just let him be himself?  4.  do you think supplements like fish oil or coenzyme q-10 could help him to continue to be asymptomatic?  could these supplements even be given with medication in the future if need be?  thank you so much as are very worried about our dog.

[Jim Humphries, B.S., D.V.M.]

I can't believe it, I had just about finished a lengthy answer for you and something happened here and lost it.  Ugh.  I'll try to do this again.  

First of all – good call by your new veterinarian!  I hope you will stay with her and let her follow his progress.  It is good to get second opinions and reassuring to have another professional’s confirmation.  

I agree with what Dr. V, your vet and your second opinion vet have said about this.  It is a low grade murmur and he will probably do fine with no immediate diagnostics or treatment.  However, as Dr. V says, to know for sure or to have some baseline data, some imaging studies and basic work up will tell you good info for future reference should this become more of a progressing problem.  

1) Yes he may have had this for some time.  Many dogs do and never show symptoms.  It’s possible he’s had this since birth, but usually these murmurs are pretty obvious as puppies and often get worse fast.  It is more likely that this has developed slowly over the past few years.  It is just a guess.  

2) Yes, should he begin to show symptoms we have medication that will help him live with this very well, even a normal life span.  Watching progress (listening and even workups) will help you determine when to start meds.  Something else to consider and as your veterinarian about is a low sodium diet.  While Canidae is a good food, it is not sodium restricted and just as with people low sodium diets help control blood pressure.  Please ask about this.  

3) No, I see no reason to restrict his activity.  It is most likely keeping his heart healthy.  Just watch for symptoms of reduced ability to exercise, cough – those are the main two.  The veterinarian can watch for the intensity of the murmur and follow with imaging.  

4) Yes, just as with people Omega 3 fish oils are an outstanding supplement.  I have taken them for the past 7 years for my heart.  A member of our group did extensive studying on the many brands available and she has chosen Nordic Naturals.  The one I recommend is called Pet Cod Liver Oil.  You can find it on their site.  I give this to my two Great Danes for skin allergies.  As for Co Q 10 I do not know.  One of our other DVM’s will have an opinion on this.  I’ve never heard it used in veterinary medicine.  

Many dogs with valvular insufficiency, live full active and normal lives.  If they begin to “decompensate” then medications are ready to help.  It is your call as to do the baseline tests now – it is certainly a good idea.  

Also, heart disease in dogs is a bit different from the major cause of heart disease in people.  We are concerned primarily about coronary disease.  This can lead to sudden death due to coronary obstruction.  However, dogs major cause of heart disease (besides congenital) is valve insufficiency leading to chronic congestive heart failure. (CHF)  It sounds bad but remember it can be mild or severe.  Your dog only has a murmur and probably cannot even be categorized as a CHF case at this point in time.  So the mild or even functional murmur is present and we watch it closely for progression.  

You are fortunate your new veterinarian picked up on this as this has simply alerted you to watch for it and be ahead of the treatment and prevention process.  

Good luck and keep us posted.  

[curlydog415]

we just took the dog in for a second opinion and the vet confirmed the heart murmur.  she said it was a 2-3 and small.  she said just to keep an eye on him and bring him back if he ever becomes symptomatic.  she said he could possibly never develop symptoms.  she said we could give him fish oil and vitamin e but said she had no info on coenzyme q-10 for dogs...  i felt better when she asked how old he was and i said he was 11 and she could not believe it and asked what we were feeding him.  she said he appeared much younger then his 11 years :-).  we feed him canidae senior dog food...