Aa
Aggression Training
Anxiety has crippled every aspect of my life. I'm pretty tired of it. And while I'm pessimistic about it, I'm still searching for alternatives to medication/alcohol/substances to deal with it. I recently saw the old movie "Stripes" and caught a line in it..
Someone asks John Candy's character why he joined the army and his response is:
"I'm basically a shy person. I'm a shy guy and ah, he suggested takin' one o' these aggression training courses, you know these aggressive training courses, like E.S.T.? Those type o' things. Anways, it cost like 400 bucks! 400 bucks to join this thing.
Well, I ah, I didn't have the money. I thought to myself, join the Army. It's free."
While that was written to be funny, it made me really wonder about true "Aggression Training". It really makes sense. It's that whole "Fight or Flight" thing, but I know when I'm angry with another person.. which is rare, I'm usually the "Flight" guy.. but when I do get angry I don't have an ounce of anxiety.
Has anyone ever heard about or done any kind of aggression training? I'm seriously thinking about trying to become a more pissed off person.
Someone asks John Candy's character why he joined the army and his response is:
"I'm basically a shy person. I'm a shy guy and ah, he suggested takin' one o' these aggression training courses, you know these aggressive training courses, like E.S.T.? Those type o' things. Anways, it cost like 400 bucks! 400 bucks to join this thing.
Well, I ah, I didn't have the money. I thought to myself, join the Army. It's free."
While that was written to be funny, it made me really wonder about true "Aggression Training". It really makes sense. It's that whole "Fight or Flight" thing, but I know when I'm angry with another person.. which is rare, I'm usually the "Flight" guy.. but when I do get angry I don't have an ounce of anxiety.
Has anyone ever heard about or done any kind of aggression training? I'm seriously thinking about trying to become a more pissed off person.
I found that little Easter egg in your journal, and I thank you for that. You've given me a very good picture of your situation; so much so that I kind of imagine myself being in the same room with you. I think it is possible to find a few ways to be more "out there" on a kind of microcosmic scale. For example, make your profile more complete. Where you live, a picture, some of your story (you could copy/paste from your post) and anything to give yourself a little more exposure, definition and dare I say....vulnerability.
Since you seem to appreciate and exhibit humor, and confess to being a musician, that means I can pass along this thought that I would not normally share with anyone, because it is so wacky. I read the musician part, then about the psychiatrist, then about it being a farce, then about you're being jaded. And what did my mind come up with? Something I can add to my list of names of punk rock bands that don't yet exist and should, but in name only: Jaded Farce.
That shows you something about my mind. Sometimes, I think I didn't actually recover from panic; no, I just traded it for flat-out insanity. But, it is better this way. Except for the paranoids who are out to get me.
But, enough about me.
Oh, yes, microcosmic changes that move you from a withdrawal toward advancing. Let's do some ground work here. How did you get to be the way you are? Answer: you don't know exactly. Yet. But the fact that you do not know suggests it was a little thing. Little, that is, the way a stone in your shoe is little. Little, the way a hole in the dike is little. Little, the way a wren sucked into a jet engine is little. The thing is little, the results are huge. If you agree that this is true -or close enough- then you must also agree that it can work the other way toward finding an exit and your freedom. So the little positive thing is little, the way a tender kiss on the lips is little, little, the way ...you get the idea.
Now, of course, Lemons (and I suppose you'll break down and disclose a real name at some point) it is not as simple as that because if it were, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place, unless there were some part of us that actually derived a big psychological benefit from it -and that is another chapter for another time. But for right now, we can safely say, I think, that many little things, taken together, tend to push us pscyhologically one way or another. And each push becomes added momentum to be the way we are until we realize we really would rather be some OTHER way.
Your panic simply tells you something is wrong. I'll leave it to you to plow through my various posts, which will give you my take on how all this works, but the nutshell is this:
The adult panic victim typically has developed and deployed psychological adaptations and defenses in childhood and adolescence which are no longer effective in resolving conflicts and challenges as an adult. Instead, the adult tends to repeat behaviors which produce additional challenges and conflicts, often with the belief that the repetition is having the opposite effect. Panic is one of many possible responses to the tension and stress resulting from unresolved conflicts, others include outbursts of anger and rage, morbid associations, immersion in work or religion or politics, and combinations of all of these. The presence of panic as a principle expression may indicate strong genetic factors favoring a flight response to danger and/or very early childhood learning experiences in which helplessness was deliberately employed to gain attention, affection, or love.
Because so much of the developmental material is not within the panic victim's immediate memory, the associations which produce a panic state are difficult to trace and correct.
...Sounds like it came out of some book, right? Nope, it floated to the top of the fetid swamp which is my mind. But, pathological origins aside, I have never known it to be any other way and my own recovery came about when I learned to detach the old ways of dealing with conflict and use more effective ways. This sort of sounds like a multi-purpose tool with interchangeable tips, but that was not my experience. Merely getting rid of the "old ways" allowed me to respond better to current situations, and at the same time, the number of challenges decreased because I simply was not a magnet for them.
And so, it comes as no surprise to me that you would consider the military as an exit from your panic. In fact, I think, it would merely become a venue for focusing the unresolved conflict, in which case, I damned glad you're on OUR side.
I've sort of done a grand tour of panic here, so let me return to the here and now. You do say you can get out if you have a drink or two, so I wonder, why not have a drink or two and go to that grocery store? But I digress.
For right now, find as many little things to change as you can, to change direction, change the momentum, break some circuits. Can't go the grocery? Fine, stand on your front stoop and LOOK at the grocery, say "Hi" to a pretty girl who passes by, take your trumpet or violin or whatever it is you play, set up on the side walk and blow a few notes, strum a few cords or establish cadence. Change things, get busy, get active, get moving -in other words, take charge -of ANYthing.
AND, you might as well set up a desk here on the forum, because there's gonna be a line of people who want to hear what YOU have to say, doctor. Everyone here is pretty bright, because you have to be smart to even have panic, but some people here are beyond Mensa, and you're one of 'em. So, I'm beggin' you, be available to people here and jump right in where you've got something to offer from your head or your heart. This will help us, add to the collective wisdom and it will add to your momentum of recovery.
Please -update the profile for us. Enough for now, I await your next pregnant prose.
Since you seem to appreciate and exhibit humor, and confess to being a musician, that means I can pass along this thought that I would not normally share with anyone, because it is so wacky. I read the musician part, then about the psychiatrist, then about it being a farce, then about you're being jaded. And what did my mind come up with? Something I can add to my list of names of punk rock bands that don't yet exist and should, but in name only: Jaded Farce.
That shows you something about my mind. Sometimes, I think I didn't actually recover from panic; no, I just traded it for flat-out insanity. But, it is better this way. Except for the paranoids who are out to get me.
But, enough about me.
Oh, yes, microcosmic changes that move you from a withdrawal toward advancing. Let's do some ground work here. How did you get to be the way you are? Answer: you don't know exactly. Yet. But the fact that you do not know suggests it was a little thing. Little, that is, the way a stone in your shoe is little. Little, the way a hole in the dike is little. Little, the way a wren sucked into a jet engine is little. The thing is little, the results are huge. If you agree that this is true -or close enough- then you must also agree that it can work the other way toward finding an exit and your freedom. So the little positive thing is little, the way a tender kiss on the lips is little, little, the way ...you get the idea.
Now, of course, Lemons (and I suppose you'll break down and disclose a real name at some point) it is not as simple as that because if it were, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place, unless there were some part of us that actually derived a big psychological benefit from it -and that is another chapter for another time. But for right now, we can safely say, I think, that many little things, taken together, tend to push us pscyhologically one way or another. And each push becomes added momentum to be the way we are until we realize we really would rather be some OTHER way.
Your panic simply tells you something is wrong. I'll leave it to you to plow through my various posts, which will give you my take on how all this works, but the nutshell is this:
The adult panic victim typically has developed and deployed psychological adaptations and defenses in childhood and adolescence which are no longer effective in resolving conflicts and challenges as an adult. Instead, the adult tends to repeat behaviors which produce additional challenges and conflicts, often with the belief that the repetition is having the opposite effect. Panic is one of many possible responses to the tension and stress resulting from unresolved conflicts, others include outbursts of anger and rage, morbid associations, immersion in work or religion or politics, and combinations of all of these. The presence of panic as a principle expression may indicate strong genetic factors favoring a flight response to danger and/or very early childhood learning experiences in which helplessness was deliberately employed to gain attention, affection, or love.
Because so much of the developmental material is not within the panic victim's immediate memory, the associations which produce a panic state are difficult to trace and correct.
...Sounds like it came out of some book, right? Nope, it floated to the top of the fetid swamp which is my mind. But, pathological origins aside, I have never known it to be any other way and my own recovery came about when I learned to detach the old ways of dealing with conflict and use more effective ways. This sort of sounds like a multi-purpose tool with interchangeable tips, but that was not my experience. Merely getting rid of the "old ways" allowed me to respond better to current situations, and at the same time, the number of challenges decreased because I simply was not a magnet for them.
And so, it comes as no surprise to me that you would consider the military as an exit from your panic. In fact, I think, it would merely become a venue for focusing the unresolved conflict, in which case, I damned glad you're on OUR side.
I've sort of done a grand tour of panic here, so let me return to the here and now. You do say you can get out if you have a drink or two, so I wonder, why not have a drink or two and go to that grocery store? But I digress.
For right now, find as many little things to change as you can, to change direction, change the momentum, break some circuits. Can't go the grocery? Fine, stand on your front stoop and LOOK at the grocery, say "Hi" to a pretty girl who passes by, take your trumpet or violin or whatever it is you play, set up on the side walk and blow a few notes, strum a few cords or establish cadence. Change things, get busy, get active, get moving -in other words, take charge -of ANYthing.
AND, you might as well set up a desk here on the forum, because there's gonna be a line of people who want to hear what YOU have to say, doctor. Everyone here is pretty bright, because you have to be smart to even have panic, but some people here are beyond Mensa, and you're one of 'em. So, I'm beggin' you, be available to people here and jump right in where you've got something to offer from your head or your heart. This will help us, add to the collective wisdom and it will add to your momentum of recovery.
Please -update the profile for us. Enough for now, I await your next pregnant prose.
i want to wish you luck and tell you we are here for you ,plus i have found that when am in my anxiety mode i dont eat good , thats the wrong thing to do. you need to eat it seems to help your body to fight the anxiety, your losing the vit's you need when you dont eat. i depleted my vit B-12 while not eating and it just made matters worse . you need food and you need water . so try and eat balance meals it will help your body fight. God Bless you .Barbara
I believe some of us with anxiety problems have a low self-esteem and become somewhat of an avoidant personality. Instead of aggression, practice assertiveness. There seems to be about 3 different personality phases. passive, assertive and aggressive. I was very passive and backwards until I read books, saw a physcologist a few times. I quit qorrying about what everyone thought of me and started speaking up for myself, I made a game of it, although it is very serious, just minor things, made sure I started having an opinion at least once a day in conversation. It started feeling good. You do matter and you are important. Have a good one
not much to add, just a warm welcome to the forum, and I understand where you are coming from, though I wouldn't rely on alcohol as a confidence builder, but I do understand what you mean
looking forward to talking with you :-)
looking forward to talking with you :-)
Wow. Thanks for taking the time to write that impressive response. Very welcoming and helpful. Not to sound sappy, but I just got a sense of relief after reading that.. I just realized I've never talked to anyone else whom I thought could truly relate to my anxiety. It's always just been counselors or people who only read about it from books or prescription medication pamphlets.
I'd say you're spot on with my extreme emotional states blocking out others. It's nice to hear that summed up, because that is very accurate. I think the only times I go out by myself are when I'm very emotional, or drunk.
I've tried the bully theory and I think it really does help. I always seem to forget about that and just go back to my old reclusive ways, but with that fresh on my mind I might have a few successful days ahead of me.
If you relate my humor to intellect you should hear some of my "Mom" jokes! You'll think I'm a genious! Hehe, just kidding. I was a smart guy at one point in my life but honestly anxiety prevented me from taking advantage of my potential. In grade school I was told I could skip a grade but was afraid of being in a class with new people. After transferring to a new school in 9th grade I dropped out shortly after because I just couldn't handle the sweating and worrying and fears. (Hence my run on sentences). I had a 4.0 and was in all honors classes when I left. I was also one of the most sought after musicians in my class. Oh well. "Glory Days. In the wink of a young girls eye." -The Boss
Around that time I went to a psychiatrist to get some help. I told him that I tried self medicating with recreational drugs. He tried to convince me the drugs were causing my anxiety. I tried to explain to him that I had crippling anxiety years before I ever used anything, but he wasn't having it. Because I was underage and he deemed me a harm to myself through drug use he called my parents and told them everything I shared with him. They cried and it shattered my view of psychiatry as a whole. I now see it as a farce really. Although I will admit I am jaded.
With that in my back pocket I continued to seek other psychiatrists soley for the medication. After years of being on all those crazy capsule anti-depressants and trying a handful of benzos I concluded that drugs were not the answer for me. I did not like who I was on them and could not tolerate the severe memory fog. I would rather be a recluse and feel like myself than be a lethargic zombie bumping around in society. And so I am extremely good at video games. :p
Social drinking is the only successful approach I've had so far. In moderation of course. I'm not trying to promote alcoholism here, it is an awful thing. But responsibly it gives me the courage to meet people. And I enjoy meeting people.
The rest of my socially active and sober time is a result of dependency on and support from friends and family. And who can forget the internet! Google is my best friend.
I've thought about volunteering and I think I might actually like it. But again my anxiety literally prevents me from seeking out such things. You have to understand.. for instance.. I live next to a grocery store. For the past week I've eaten only slices of plain bread and drank slightly colored tap water. I'd like to get some food. And fresh water. I'd really enjoy a glass of orange juice as well. But for me it's easier just to eat bread and drink possibly contaminated water until I run out and physically have to get some kind of nutrients. The beauty of this method is when I finally do get the things, I appreciate them so much. Do you know how delicious a turkey sandwich tastes after thinking about it for 2 weeks? It's really good. :p
Well, I've written a novel. I thank you for reading if you've made it this far and for those who just scanned over it because it's so damn long don't worry about it. I probably would have done the same.
Thanks for your time and support. I predict there are some amazing people around these parts. Take care.
I'd say you're spot on with my extreme emotional states blocking out others. It's nice to hear that summed up, because that is very accurate. I think the only times I go out by myself are when I'm very emotional, or drunk.
I've tried the bully theory and I think it really does help. I always seem to forget about that and just go back to my old reclusive ways, but with that fresh on my mind I might have a few successful days ahead of me.
If you relate my humor to intellect you should hear some of my "Mom" jokes! You'll think I'm a genious! Hehe, just kidding. I was a smart guy at one point in my life but honestly anxiety prevented me from taking advantage of my potential. In grade school I was told I could skip a grade but was afraid of being in a class with new people. After transferring to a new school in 9th grade I dropped out shortly after because I just couldn't handle the sweating and worrying and fears. (Hence my run on sentences). I had a 4.0 and was in all honors classes when I left. I was also one of the most sought after musicians in my class. Oh well. "Glory Days. In the wink of a young girls eye." -The Boss
Around that time I went to a psychiatrist to get some help. I told him that I tried self medicating with recreational drugs. He tried to convince me the drugs were causing my anxiety. I tried to explain to him that I had crippling anxiety years before I ever used anything, but he wasn't having it. Because I was underage and he deemed me a harm to myself through drug use he called my parents and told them everything I shared with him. They cried and it shattered my view of psychiatry as a whole. I now see it as a farce really. Although I will admit I am jaded.
With that in my back pocket I continued to seek other psychiatrists soley for the medication. After years of being on all those crazy capsule anti-depressants and trying a handful of benzos I concluded that drugs were not the answer for me. I did not like who I was on them and could not tolerate the severe memory fog. I would rather be a recluse and feel like myself than be a lethargic zombie bumping around in society. And so I am extremely good at video games. :p
Social drinking is the only successful approach I've had so far. In moderation of course. I'm not trying to promote alcoholism here, it is an awful thing. But responsibly it gives me the courage to meet people. And I enjoy meeting people.
The rest of my socially active and sober time is a result of dependency on and support from friends and family. And who can forget the internet! Google is my best friend.
I've thought about volunteering and I think I might actually like it. But again my anxiety literally prevents me from seeking out such things. You have to understand.. for instance.. I live next to a grocery store. For the past week I've eaten only slices of plain bread and drank slightly colored tap water. I'd like to get some food. And fresh water. I'd really enjoy a glass of orange juice as well. But for me it's easier just to eat bread and drink possibly contaminated water until I run out and physically have to get some kind of nutrients. The beauty of this method is when I finally do get the things, I appreciate them so much. Do you know how delicious a turkey sandwich tastes after thinking about it for 2 weeks? It's really good. :p
Well, I've written a novel. I thank you for reading if you've made it this far and for those who just scanned over it because it's so damn long don't worry about it. I probably would have done the same.
Thanks for your time and support. I predict there are some amazing people around these parts. Take care.
Well, we have a lemon here, so let's make lemonade!
I smell what you're stepping in, LL, I really do. I've got a question or 2 for you, but first, do me a favor, please. Scan the other posts to get the feel for what's going on around here, and maybe do a search on "aggression" and see what comes back. You'll probably find a few folks who seem like they might be good to talk with, so make a note of who they are and maybe search on their names to see what they've had to say. In other words, get comfortable. You've come to the right place. It is almost impossible to say the wrong thing. Everyone here is ON YOUR SIDE.
I see you are not a member, and invite you to actually join the Anxiety forum and contribute your questions, answers, and experiences. Our strength and effectiveness is based totally on participation. Its easy to do; just click, enter your information -maybe a picture (Rambo, perhaps?)- and that’s it! Please know that your experience, thoughts and ideas will be valuable to others, so forum membership is a way to form an identity with us -and us with you.
If someone seems especially connected to your experience, send a private message. If you have family or friends who might benefit from joining, please encourage them to do so; talk to them, send them a link -whatever!
And if there is something you don’t understand about the site, or you’re having a problem, please let me know about it. I’m glad you’re here.
OK, back to you. My guess is that any extreme emotional state tends to block out others, and therefore, if you are very angry, the anxiety stuff will sit at the side -for awhile, anyway. But, I'll go further and toss something out for your consideration:
Suppose we consider anxiety and panic as a form of aggression AGAINST YOURSELF? I'm not kidding. If you haven't done so yourself, you will read here about folks who manage the panic as one might handle a bully. Eventually, you get tired of being pushed around by the panic and you DARE it to try and put you down. You interact with it as though it were another person. Sound familiar? If not, maybe it sounds like a useful way to look at it.
You've used humor as a way to prjcet what you are thinking about -a sure sign of an intellect at work and porbably daming evidence that you're a smart guy. So it is with most of us. I actually believe that if we were all stupid, we wouldn't be having as much panic.
OK, after you've done the joining thing, answer me (and answer everyone) this question: what medications, therapies and other approaches have you attemted thus far -and what were the results? Then, why aggression? Why not, say, join Habitat for Humanity and build houses, or volunteering at a shelter or hospice?
LL -we are all behind you, every last one of us and trust me, what you bring to us is valuable.
Thanks for the post!
I smell what you're stepping in, LL, I really do. I've got a question or 2 for you, but first, do me a favor, please. Scan the other posts to get the feel for what's going on around here, and maybe do a search on "aggression" and see what comes back. You'll probably find a few folks who seem like they might be good to talk with, so make a note of who they are and maybe search on their names to see what they've had to say. In other words, get comfortable. You've come to the right place. It is almost impossible to say the wrong thing. Everyone here is ON YOUR SIDE.
I see you are not a member, and invite you to actually join the Anxiety forum and contribute your questions, answers, and experiences. Our strength and effectiveness is based totally on participation. Its easy to do; just click, enter your information -maybe a picture (Rambo, perhaps?)- and that’s it! Please know that your experience, thoughts and ideas will be valuable to others, so forum membership is a way to form an identity with us -and us with you.
If someone seems especially connected to your experience, send a private message. If you have family or friends who might benefit from joining, please encourage them to do so; talk to them, send them a link -whatever!
And if there is something you don’t understand about the site, or you’re having a problem, please let me know about it. I’m glad you’re here.
OK, back to you. My guess is that any extreme emotional state tends to block out others, and therefore, if you are very angry, the anxiety stuff will sit at the side -for awhile, anyway. But, I'll go further and toss something out for your consideration:
Suppose we consider anxiety and panic as a form of aggression AGAINST YOURSELF? I'm not kidding. If you haven't done so yourself, you will read here about folks who manage the panic as one might handle a bully. Eventually, you get tired of being pushed around by the panic and you DARE it to try and put you down. You interact with it as though it were another person. Sound familiar? If not, maybe it sounds like a useful way to look at it.
You've used humor as a way to prjcet what you are thinking about -a sure sign of an intellect at work and porbably daming evidence that you're a smart guy. So it is with most of us. I actually believe that if we were all stupid, we wouldn't be having as much panic.
OK, after you've done the joining thing, answer me (and answer everyone) this question: what medications, therapies and other approaches have you attemted thus far -and what were the results? Then, why aggression? Why not, say, join Habitat for Humanity and build houses, or volunteering at a shelter or hospice?
LL -we are all behind you, every last one of us and trust me, what you bring to us is valuable.
Thanks for the post!
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