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How to get off Clonopin
I have been on Clonopin for 15 years at 4mg. After 10 years something started to change and I began eating alot at night and put on 40lbs then things got much worse my sleep went right into the ground. 3 sleep studies later I found out that I was not going through all the cycles or REM sleep and stage 3 sleep. So I went to a sleep neurologist. who told me that Benzos are a disaster for REM sleep.Call My Psychatrist and told him I wanted off the clonopin immediately. I have been tapering .5 mg every 4 days which is as fast as he was willing to take me off with out using librium or being admitted. If you have been on this drug as long as I have the first 2 weeks are hell. I was so sick, nasseau headaches horrible sleep I literally got to the point that I was suicidal and when I went to bed I prayed I didnt wake up. This drug was great in the beginning for anxiety but once you build up a tolerance look out. Now that im down to 2 mg I find it hard to go to sleep and will propably need Ambien again. If there is anybody out there that would like might help Please email me. Do Not stop this drug cold turkey There is a really good chance you will have a seizure besides all the withdrawal symptoms that I had or worse
Best Answer
I have finally got myself down to 2mg of klonopin and it has been hell. 15 years on this drug and my body is fighting it all the way. I have layed in bed for 3 days thinking that i was sick with the Flu but went to the hospital and found out nothing is wrong with me.
So at this point since I have almost leveled off I have decided to slow the taper process down to 2 to 4 weeks each time. My body just cant take anymore abuse. I just can t believe how addicting this drug is. Im goin gto kill my doctor for putting on this drug. I had no idea what I was taking. But i do know what Im up against. I hope this advice helps anybody taking this drug in high dosages. The slower the better!
So at this point since I have almost leveled off I have decided to slow the taper process down to 2 to 4 weeks each time. My body just cant take anymore abuse. I just can t believe how addicting this drug is. Im goin gto kill my doctor for putting on this drug. I had no idea what I was taking. But i do know what Im up against. I hope this advice helps anybody taking this drug in high dosages. The slower the better!
Thanks a lot for your reply. I also wonder about my memory. But the new (old) drug I'm on the cyprohexadine (antihistamine) is worse for memory. I dont' know how long I'll stay on it but it helps with sleep, lowering the number of migraines and my allergies. Being tired and forgetful I guess I have to put up with. I have had some anxiety/fear last year or at times due to a bad back problem. I went to biofeedback and have breathing exercises I do twice a day to lower the fight or flight symptoms and fear of hurting myself by moving the wrong way or doing too much. Chronic pain is hard and did cause some depression. I seem to be getting somewhat better but it is hard to from being a clinical and research microbiologist for 20 years with publications and doing very well to not being able to put my pants and sock on and do much house work. I feel frustrated and sorry for my husband who does the extra work. I was also a advance tennis player, jogger, hiker and violin player. So, you can imagine being alone all day until my husband gets home is hard. I had a counselor for a year and feel better now. I'm finally getting to out to lunch and we have stayed at a hotel a couple of times. I still get frustrated that I need to wait for my husband to do things. I want my life back and I'm going to get it!! I do suggest the biofeedback as it did work for me. It takes months of doing the exercises to start to see a difference.
have a good day.
mkh9
have a good day.
mkh9
Hello and welcome! Glad to have you aboard!
Klonopin, along with any med in the benzodiazepine class comes with tolerance and dependency with long term use, similar to an opiate narcotic (Vicodin, Percocet). Klonopin has much less issues with tolerance than the shorter acting benzos (Xanax, Ativan) due to its long half life. This is obvious by your fairly low dose after 20 years (and the OP of this thread). Had either of you been on Xanax for that length of time, you would have had to increase your dose MANY more times due to tolerance issues, ending up on a significantly higher dose. This is why Klonopin is much more optimal for long term use.
IF you would end up with sleep disturbances due to tolerance, it would be fairly easy to fix with a small dose increase from time to time. And with the low dose you are on, you still have a lot of room to go up if it would be indicated in the future.
I think you should reread this thread, as the OP eventually admits that perhaps he was putting a little TOO much emphasis and focus on the sleep issues while looking for an "easy fix" to the anxiety issues. That is so common with us anxious people, we are forever looking for the easy, obvious answer, with hopefully, just as easy a remedy. Unfortunately, for us, that seldom happens. I'm not saying that is the same situation for you, I'm just pointing out that the OP gave it more thought and was willing to consider that he was overthinking the sleep issues.
I wouldn't be overly worried about the Klonopin at this point. Especially with the very long period of time you've been taking it. If you haven't experienced noticeable sleep concerns by now, chances are, you may never.
I have struggled with horrible insomnia for YEARS. For years, my issue was more with falling asleep, and now, I fall asleep fairly easily, only to wake up literally every 30-45 minutes, before falling back asleep in another 15-30 minutes. Working shifts as a nurse, I've sort of grown to tolerate it, and while it affects me from time to time, I've adapted. I make time to take naps during the morning, and when I do wake up during the night, I've learned to stop feeling frustrated about it.
After years of complaining and getting upset about it, I learned to actually find positive things about having insomnia, like having the entire quiet house to myself to do whatever strikes my fancy. LOL. Not to say that MY methods would be the answer for other people, but it works for me, and while obviously sufficient quality and quantity of sleep is important, I DO think people put MUCH too much emphasis on the importance of it, when compared to the bigger picture. I've read several researach studies that, as adults, we DON'T really need 8 hours of sleep as originally recommended. Most studies show that the average person functions just fine on 5-6 hours of sleep.
Glad to have you here! I hope you stick around!!
Klonopin, along with any med in the benzodiazepine class comes with tolerance and dependency with long term use, similar to an opiate narcotic (Vicodin, Percocet). Klonopin has much less issues with tolerance than the shorter acting benzos (Xanax, Ativan) due to its long half life. This is obvious by your fairly low dose after 20 years (and the OP of this thread). Had either of you been on Xanax for that length of time, you would have had to increase your dose MANY more times due to tolerance issues, ending up on a significantly higher dose. This is why Klonopin is much more optimal for long term use.
IF you would end up with sleep disturbances due to tolerance, it would be fairly easy to fix with a small dose increase from time to time. And with the low dose you are on, you still have a lot of room to go up if it would be indicated in the future.
I think you should reread this thread, as the OP eventually admits that perhaps he was putting a little TOO much emphasis and focus on the sleep issues while looking for an "easy fix" to the anxiety issues. That is so common with us anxious people, we are forever looking for the easy, obvious answer, with hopefully, just as easy a remedy. Unfortunately, for us, that seldom happens. I'm not saying that is the same situation for you, I'm just pointing out that the OP gave it more thought and was willing to consider that he was overthinking the sleep issues.
I wouldn't be overly worried about the Klonopin at this point. Especially with the very long period of time you've been taking it. If you haven't experienced noticeable sleep concerns by now, chances are, you may never.
I have struggled with horrible insomnia for YEARS. For years, my issue was more with falling asleep, and now, I fall asleep fairly easily, only to wake up literally every 30-45 minutes, before falling back asleep in another 15-30 minutes. Working shifts as a nurse, I've sort of grown to tolerate it, and while it affects me from time to time, I've adapted. I make time to take naps during the morning, and when I do wake up during the night, I've learned to stop feeling frustrated about it.
After years of complaining and getting upset about it, I learned to actually find positive things about having insomnia, like having the entire quiet house to myself to do whatever strikes my fancy. LOL. Not to say that MY methods would be the answer for other people, but it works for me, and while obviously sufficient quality and quantity of sleep is important, I DO think people put MUCH too much emphasis on the importance of it, when compared to the bigger picture. I've read several researach studies that, as adults, we DON'T really need 8 hours of sleep as originally recommended. Most studies show that the average person functions just fine on 5-6 hours of sleep.
Glad to have you here! I hope you stick around!!
Hi nursegirl6572,
I am new to this site. I was just answering a question for someone and saw that you are a nurse. I am a clinical microbiologist so your field intersects with mine. But this topic interested me because I have been on Klonopin for over 20 years (1.5mg) but not for anxiety rather for a migraine variant with positive EEG. I have not had any problems with sleep due to Klonopin yet. Except I am getting menopausal or perimenopause and have trouble sleeping the week before my period. But sometimes I have trouble with waking up a lot but I do go back to sleep. I am a little concerned since I saw that the above post said that he got tolerant to the drug and couldn't sleep. I hope that won't happen to me. I do sleep better now and have more REM sleep (at least I think that is what it is because the dreams are unpleasant but not nightmares or anything) because my neurologist gave me a old drug cyprohexadine. I don't know the trade name but it an antihistamine that works on migraines as well. I don't normally add to a post but since it fits with the above post I wonder if you would let me know if I will eventually have a sleep problem too? My GP says I can stay on it forever. I can't get to talk to the psychiatrist that diagnosed me with migraine as he has retired. I have seen a neurologist and talked to counselors and all don't seem to be bothered by the long term benzo use. I have never gone up on it and don't change anything. If you would like to message me that is ok too. Whichever is suitable.
thank you in advance!
mkh9
I am new to this site. I was just answering a question for someone and saw that you are a nurse. I am a clinical microbiologist so your field intersects with mine. But this topic interested me because I have been on Klonopin for over 20 years (1.5mg) but not for anxiety rather for a migraine variant with positive EEG. I have not had any problems with sleep due to Klonopin yet. Except I am getting menopausal or perimenopause and have trouble sleeping the week before my period. But sometimes I have trouble with waking up a lot but I do go back to sleep. I am a little concerned since I saw that the above post said that he got tolerant to the drug and couldn't sleep. I hope that won't happen to me. I do sleep better now and have more REM sleep (at least I think that is what it is because the dreams are unpleasant but not nightmares or anything) because my neurologist gave me a old drug cyprohexadine. I don't know the trade name but it an antihistamine that works on migraines as well. I don't normally add to a post but since it fits with the above post I wonder if you would let me know if I will eventually have a sleep problem too? My GP says I can stay on it forever. I can't get to talk to the psychiatrist that diagnosed me with migraine as he has retired. I have seen a neurologist and talked to counselors and all don't seem to be bothered by the long term benzo use. I have never gone up on it and don't change anything. If you would like to message me that is ok too. Whichever is suitable.
thank you in advance!
mkh9
Don't get too disgusted, it's normal for there to be differing opinions among caregivers, personally, I would go with what the doctor says. Did your doc recommend this therapist? I would tell the doctor what the therapist is saying. No offense to her, but the med decision really isn't up to her. She can certainly make suggestions, but the doctor is the one with the final call, especially if you aren't sure what to do. Maybe down the line, coming off the Klonopin would be okay, but right now, I wouldn't mess with it, that's just my opinion.
Yes, you are right about the Celexa. it will take several weeks (usually about 4-6) before you really start noticing changes, and even after that, dosage increases might be needed. Your therapist is sort of right about the benzos. She's right about needing to learn how to cope, but plenty of people handle their anxiety with meds AND therapy, and that's okay. It just always puts a bad taste in my mouth when I hear a therapist strongly discouraging meds. That's not up to them at all.
I'm glad you have a plan until you see your doctor, so you can remain stable with the proper dose. When you see your doc, tell her/him about what the therapist is telling you and that it is confusing you. Tell your doc that your goal is to manage your anxiety, regardless of how you have to do that. And, yes, sometimes, people have to take a medication for life. You wouldn't think twice if you had to take a pill every day for high blood pressure, or diabetes, same thing here. It's okay to need more than therapy. I just really think NOW is not the time for you to be making these decisions, especially after your recent experience with the awful taper, and your realization that maybe your focus was a bit off.
I know, it's ironic that we are only minutes away, isn't it? In the many years I've been posting here, I've come accross a few people from our local area here. No pressure on the coffee date, I completely understand. Just know that if you ever DO want to meet up to have a local friend who gets it, your "secret" is safe with me. I get the desire for privacy. Not everyone in MY life knows my history either, and I like it that way. Maybe, with us both having anxiety disorders, DECAF coffee would be the best thing, lol.
I'm anxious to hear what your doctor has to say, especially about the supposed "pressure" your therapist is putting on you about the Klonopin. If she's a good enough therapist, it may just be about being stern with her about how you feel, and that you will follow the DOCTOR'S recommendations based on what YOU want.
A lot of times doctors have therapists they work directly with, kind of like one stop shopping. You see both professionals, and they work together to help you reach your goals. I really like that set up. I felt like everyone was on the same page. That might be something your doc will suggest.
One step at a time. I'm glad you didn't try to stick out the taper, you would have been absolutely miserable by now. Try not to overthink everyone right now, give yourself a little break until you see the doc.
Hang in there, neighbor!!
Yes, you are right about the Celexa. it will take several weeks (usually about 4-6) before you really start noticing changes, and even after that, dosage increases might be needed. Your therapist is sort of right about the benzos. She's right about needing to learn how to cope, but plenty of people handle their anxiety with meds AND therapy, and that's okay. It just always puts a bad taste in my mouth when I hear a therapist strongly discouraging meds. That's not up to them at all.
I'm glad you have a plan until you see your doctor, so you can remain stable with the proper dose. When you see your doc, tell her/him about what the therapist is telling you and that it is confusing you. Tell your doc that your goal is to manage your anxiety, regardless of how you have to do that. And, yes, sometimes, people have to take a medication for life. You wouldn't think twice if you had to take a pill every day for high blood pressure, or diabetes, same thing here. It's okay to need more than therapy. I just really think NOW is not the time for you to be making these decisions, especially after your recent experience with the awful taper, and your realization that maybe your focus was a bit off.
I know, it's ironic that we are only minutes away, isn't it? In the many years I've been posting here, I've come accross a few people from our local area here. No pressure on the coffee date, I completely understand. Just know that if you ever DO want to meet up to have a local friend who gets it, your "secret" is safe with me. I get the desire for privacy. Not everyone in MY life knows my history either, and I like it that way. Maybe, with us both having anxiety disorders, DECAF coffee would be the best thing, lol.
I'm anxious to hear what your doctor has to say, especially about the supposed "pressure" your therapist is putting on you about the Klonopin. If she's a good enough therapist, it may just be about being stern with her about how you feel, and that you will follow the DOCTOR'S recommendations based on what YOU want.
A lot of times doctors have therapists they work directly with, kind of like one stop shopping. You see both professionals, and they work together to help you reach your goals. I really like that set up. I felt like everyone was on the same page. That might be something your doc will suggest.
One step at a time. I'm glad you didn't try to stick out the taper, you would have been absolutely miserable by now. Try not to overthink everyone right now, give yourself a little break until you see the doc.
Hang in there, neighbor!!
I would love to meet you, but to be honest Im a really embarrassed. Nobody know my situation except my immediate family and they barely understand what I'm going through. Im not sure if I want to "out" myself.
You have been so understanding and compassionate. I feel like you really do care and you understand what Im going through because you too have Anxiety and you have this wealth of knowledge. Its not sympathy it empathy, BIG difference. Your advice is worth more than gold to me.
I saw my therapist yesterday and he was adament about me getting off the clonopin and Dealing with my anxiety from a cognitive appproach. He said I should be practicing relaxation exercises and deep breathing a 1000 times a day. THis is why I am so CONFUSED. Dr says meds and therapist says no meds
I see my Doctor in 4 weeks so until then I started back on 3mg of clonopin and will taper down .5 mg every 7 days maybe slower depending on how my body adjusts. Since i was on 2mg the withdrawal was horrible and the taper was too fast at every 4 days. I thought I could do it but I was wrong. I feel like a goddamn Heroin addict.
Im told the Celexa should help after 4 weeks with Anxiety.
Ironically My therapist said that Benzos are the best drug for anxiety and the worst drug because they only mask the problem but no matter what eventually you have to face your demons.
I find it amusing that I posted an article to get feedback on clonopin on this website expecting to get advice from all over the world and the best and only advise has come from you and your 15 minutes away from me. I find it Fortuitous. By the way what is your name?
You have been so understanding and compassionate. I feel like you really do care and you understand what Im going through because you too have Anxiety and you have this wealth of knowledge. Its not sympathy it empathy, BIG difference. Your advice is worth more than gold to me.
I saw my therapist yesterday and he was adament about me getting off the clonopin and Dealing with my anxiety from a cognitive appproach. He said I should be practicing relaxation exercises and deep breathing a 1000 times a day. THis is why I am so CONFUSED. Dr says meds and therapist says no meds
I see my Doctor in 4 weeks so until then I started back on 3mg of clonopin and will taper down .5 mg every 7 days maybe slower depending on how my body adjusts. Since i was on 2mg the withdrawal was horrible and the taper was too fast at every 4 days. I thought I could do it but I was wrong. I feel like a goddamn Heroin addict.
Im told the Celexa should help after 4 weeks with Anxiety.
Ironically My therapist said that Benzos are the best drug for anxiety and the worst drug because they only mask the problem but no matter what eventually you have to face your demons.
I find it amusing that I posted an article to get feedback on clonopin on this website expecting to get advice from all over the world and the best and only advise has come from you and your 15 minutes away from me. I find it Fortuitous. By the way what is your name?
Im trying to hang in there but its tough. I had a set back last night and had to call AGH. My anxiety was just ripping me apart. They told me to go back on a higher dosage of Clonopin that im comfortable with to stabilize. I took 3 mg and it worked. I was at 2 mg but it looks like I am going to have to slow the taper schedule.
I have tried therapy with 2 different specialist for the past 3 months. I know it is helpful, but for me, I have never used a therapist berfore so I have a little trouble buying into CBT. The drugs always seemed to work and whats worse is Im caught between 2 schools of thought. The therapist gave me all this literature on reasons why Medications are not the answer. So I hope you understand that I didnt make this decision on my own.
Yes I am taking the other medication as perscribed though I do have a question. I researched online last night the best drug for anxiety and they listed Tofranil. I know its not a benzo so I was hoping it might be a possible alternative, but whats your opinion. I also wonder what you would consider the best GAD medication.
I think Dr. N. was right, it is going be a combination of medication and therapy to get this under control. But I am wondering do you also have Anxiety problems??
Im also curious how close you are to me. I live in the city of Washington Do you? We may really actually be neighbors lol. Thanks for all your advice too. I really do appreciate it.
I have tried therapy with 2 different specialist for the past 3 months. I know it is helpful, but for me, I have never used a therapist berfore so I have a little trouble buying into CBT. The drugs always seemed to work and whats worse is Im caught between 2 schools of thought. The therapist gave me all this literature on reasons why Medications are not the answer. So I hope you understand that I didnt make this decision on my own.
Yes I am taking the other medication as perscribed though I do have a question. I researched online last night the best drug for anxiety and they listed Tofranil. I know its not a benzo so I was hoping it might be a possible alternative, but whats your opinion. I also wonder what you would consider the best GAD medication.
I think Dr. N. was right, it is going be a combination of medication and therapy to get this under control. But I am wondering do you also have Anxiety problems??
Im also curious how close you are to me. I live in the city of Washington Do you? We may really actually be neighbors lol. Thanks for all your advice too. I really do appreciate it.
Hey! We've all been there, and you're right, anxiety STINKS!!! I'm just so glad you were willing to consider that perhaps you were putting all your focus on just one thing. That's all too common amongst us anxious folks...we're always looking for the obvious reason and a fairly easy fix, where, a lot of times, it is not that easy!!
Besides the medications you've listed, have you tried any other forms of anxiety treatment? You mentioned you are going through CBT, that's great. How long have you been in therapy? Has it helped?
I don't know whether going off the Klonopin was the best thing for you, based on the fact that you were basing a lot of your decision on the sleep concerns. But, that's okay. You still have plenty of options. Are you still taking the rest of your meds as Rx'd? If you are, don't make any more changes right now. And, personally, until you see your doc, I would advise you to hold steady at whatever dose of Klonopin you got down to (2mg?).
My suggestion would be to have a heart to heart with your doctor, that you need to better manage your anxiety, either with or without the Klonopin, and also ask for more resources, perhaps more therapy, books to reads, etc. Be honest and explain that you had really convinced yourself that the Stage 2 sleep due to Klonopin was the source of all your anxiety issues. He/she will understand. They hear this kind of thing every day.
Don't be too discouraged. It's a long and frustrating process, but so many of us have managed to get back pretty normal lives, with perserverence.
Hang in there, neighbor!
Besides the medications you've listed, have you tried any other forms of anxiety treatment? You mentioned you are going through CBT, that's great. How long have you been in therapy? Has it helped?
I don't know whether going off the Klonopin was the best thing for you, based on the fact that you were basing a lot of your decision on the sleep concerns. But, that's okay. You still have plenty of options. Are you still taking the rest of your meds as Rx'd? If you are, don't make any more changes right now. And, personally, until you see your doc, I would advise you to hold steady at whatever dose of Klonopin you got down to (2mg?).
My suggestion would be to have a heart to heart with your doctor, that you need to better manage your anxiety, either with or without the Klonopin, and also ask for more resources, perhaps more therapy, books to reads, etc. Be honest and explain that you had really convinced yourself that the Stage 2 sleep due to Klonopin was the source of all your anxiety issues. He/she will understand. They hear this kind of thing every day.
Don't be too discouraged. It's a long and frustrating process, but so many of us have managed to get back pretty normal lives, with perserverence.
Hang in there, neighbor!
Your right, I know your right. I just hate this. I have fought this battle for too long and I cant win. I cant even remember what its like to fall asleep without taking something. I use to be stable enough to enjoy my life by right now I cant even go back to work yet because i wake up with such migraines and anxiety problems.
I was really really hoping that clonopin was the source of the problem which the neurologist suggested, but soon I will be off the drug and I will still have a Horrible Anxiety problem to deal with. It has devastated my whole life. I am so tired of dealing with this ****. I just want to be normal
It really is a small world. Do you have any suggestions because I am totally lost. Is there a better drug or is medicine not the answer.
Please help!
I was really really hoping that clonopin was the source of the problem which the neurologist suggested, but soon I will be off the drug and I will still have a Horrible Anxiety problem to deal with. It has devastated my whole life. I am so tired of dealing with this ****. I just want to be normal
It really is a small world. Do you have any suggestions because I am totally lost. Is there a better drug or is medicine not the answer.
Please help!
I do understand what you're saying and of course no one knows you better than you know yourself. I just have seen people become so fixated on one aspect of things, that they end up with tunnel vision. I would hate to see you throw the towel in...in regards to all of these years of approaching tretament based on your diagnoses, because you have maybe put your eggs in one basket? I'm sure you have sleep issues that may be affecting you, but when you actually describe your sleep patterns, it doesn't seem as severe as you have indicated. You are attributing all of your sleep disturbances to Klonopin, when there is a possibility that your disorders themselves could be the culprits. Just something I think you may want to give some throught too, After all, you were diagnosed before Klonopin (and probably a lot of your other meds) were even in the picture.
With the exception of the tolerance issue (which of course would have to be addressed with long term benzo therapy), it seems like the regimen you were on was helpful to you for a good while. I guess that's what would make me worry that you might be a little too worried about the sleep issues, especially if you are willing to question your original diagnoses as well. IMO, that's pretty extreme. I'm not trying to be pessimistic, but it personally seems like a long shot to me to think that if you could just change your sleep issues, that everything else would be perfectly fine, and that the diagnoses you were given would end up being wrong.
It's really hard to say where you'll end up, like you said, just try to take your time making these significant decisions, there is never a rush, even though you seem to think it is a better approach (similar to ripping a bandaid off, lol).
BTW, we're neighbors, I live in Washington County! Small world!
I wish you the best of luck, keep us updated when you can, I'll be very anxious to see how you're doing and what answers you come up with.
Everything I've said is with all due respect, I'm not trying to make you feel badly about how you feel, I just want you to consider the possibilities.
With the exception of the tolerance issue (which of course would have to be addressed with long term benzo therapy), it seems like the regimen you were on was helpful to you for a good while. I guess that's what would make me worry that you might be a little too worried about the sleep issues, especially if you are willing to question your original diagnoses as well. IMO, that's pretty extreme. I'm not trying to be pessimistic, but it personally seems like a long shot to me to think that if you could just change your sleep issues, that everything else would be perfectly fine, and that the diagnoses you were given would end up being wrong.
It's really hard to say where you'll end up, like you said, just try to take your time making these significant decisions, there is never a rush, even though you seem to think it is a better approach (similar to ripping a bandaid off, lol).
BTW, we're neighbors, I live in Washington County! Small world!
I wish you the best of luck, keep us updated when you can, I'll be very anxious to see how you're doing and what answers you come up with.
Everything I've said is with all due respect, I'm not trying to make you feel badly about how you feel, I just want you to consider the possibilities.
Dear Nurse,
I know that Im only achieving Stage 2 by how I feel everyday. Stage 3 and 4 are recuperative and since I feel Like crap i know Im not going through all the cycles of sleep at night.
I have a severe problem with falling asleep but once Im asleep I seem to stay asleep only once in a while do I wake up and if I do wake up I cant go back to sleep at all.
I Dont believe Im obsessed with my situation. I guess a little history is necessary. 15 years ago I basically stopped being able to fall asleep at night and then all the problems started. I went to 4 Psych Doc in Washington county before I was referred to AGH and was evaluated and Diagnosed w Bipolar and anxiety and given the medicine that Im on now. I reallly had no reason to question the Doctor because the meds seemed to work. But 5 years ago I knew something had changed because the medicine wasnt working at night like it use to and i started using food to medicate myself or at least thats what I had convinced myself but I wasnt able to properly convey to my doctor what was wrong. But after reseaching and researching i realized about a year ago that I had built up a tolerance to clonopin (which I did not know was possible) and maybe to the other drugs as well
Now I feel like I have educated myself on Sleep architecture and Medication and their side effects, so that when I talk to the doctors I am more informed and in control of my Health and treament. At This point I am throughly convinced If I am able to get rid of all the medication and focus on getting good quality sleep for 3-6 months I have a sneaky suspicion that I may not have an anxiety disorder or may not be bipolar because on those rare days that I do sleep I dont have any problems. But if still have a mood disorder Im OK with that Just as long as Im sleeping better
For all that I have learned Maybe Medication isnt the answer no matter what the problem. Maybe i hav eto learn to manage the problem through CBT. I still have alot of questions because I dont know where I am going to end up at But i feel confident this is the right approach. Robert Frost once said Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference
PS The sleep specialist is a Neurologist sorry for the confusion
I know that Im only achieving Stage 2 by how I feel everyday. Stage 3 and 4 are recuperative and since I feel Like crap i know Im not going through all the cycles of sleep at night.
I have a severe problem with falling asleep but once Im asleep I seem to stay asleep only once in a while do I wake up and if I do wake up I cant go back to sleep at all.
I Dont believe Im obsessed with my situation. I guess a little history is necessary. 15 years ago I basically stopped being able to fall asleep at night and then all the problems started. I went to 4 Psych Doc in Washington county before I was referred to AGH and was evaluated and Diagnosed w Bipolar and anxiety and given the medicine that Im on now. I reallly had no reason to question the Doctor because the meds seemed to work. But 5 years ago I knew something had changed because the medicine wasnt working at night like it use to and i started using food to medicate myself or at least thats what I had convinced myself but I wasnt able to properly convey to my doctor what was wrong. But after reseaching and researching i realized about a year ago that I had built up a tolerance to clonopin (which I did not know was possible) and maybe to the other drugs as well
Now I feel like I have educated myself on Sleep architecture and Medication and their side effects, so that when I talk to the doctors I am more informed and in control of my Health and treament. At This point I am throughly convinced If I am able to get rid of all the medication and focus on getting good quality sleep for 3-6 months I have a sneaky suspicion that I may not have an anxiety disorder or may not be bipolar because on those rare days that I do sleep I dont have any problems. But if still have a mood disorder Im OK with that Just as long as Im sleeping better
For all that I have learned Maybe Medication isnt the answer no matter what the problem. Maybe i hav eto learn to manage the problem through CBT. I still have alot of questions because I dont know where I am going to end up at But i feel confident this is the right approach. Robert Frost once said Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference
PS The sleep specialist is a Neurologist sorry for the confusion
I understand, and I'm sure it's frustrating.
Let me ask you something, you say that you're only getting "Stage 2" sleep. While admittedly, I'm not familiar with that, how exactly do you know (besides the sleep study?). I guess another question I would have is...how would you describe the actual quality of your sleep? Meaning, do you have trouble falling asleep? Staying asleep? Both? Do you wake up frequently through the night?
I guess my concern would be, that with your history of anxiety and other conditions, that perhaps you are overanalyzing your sleep a bit too much and putting too much weight on the "sleep neurologist" (I've never heard of that, btw)? Us anxious people love to ovethink everything. I would worry that you are getting stuck more on the technical aspect of "stages" of sleep rather than actually assessing your sleep patterns, and other aspects of your life.
Also, are the decisions to come off all but one med based solely on the sleep issues? Have you had success with the meds otherwise? Deciding to start or stop meds is a tough decision, and in no way am I saying you shouldn't make any decision, I just encourage you to consider all aspects before making that decision.
The same with the quick taper. What you say about your decision makes sense, but also, there is a lot to be said for taking your time and minimizing withdrawal symptoms as far as how it relates to your entire mental health issues.
Just be honest with yourself and make sure you aren't overthinking these sleep issues, and as a result, making decisions that could really negatively affect you in so many other ways. No doubt is quality and quantity of sleep ultra important, but so are the other factors to consider.
Let me ask you something, you say that you're only getting "Stage 2" sleep. While admittedly, I'm not familiar with that, how exactly do you know (besides the sleep study?). I guess another question I would have is...how would you describe the actual quality of your sleep? Meaning, do you have trouble falling asleep? Staying asleep? Both? Do you wake up frequently through the night?
I guess my concern would be, that with your history of anxiety and other conditions, that perhaps you are overanalyzing your sleep a bit too much and putting too much weight on the "sleep neurologist" (I've never heard of that, btw)? Us anxious people love to ovethink everything. I would worry that you are getting stuck more on the technical aspect of "stages" of sleep rather than actually assessing your sleep patterns, and other aspects of your life.
Also, are the decisions to come off all but one med based solely on the sleep issues? Have you had success with the meds otherwise? Deciding to start or stop meds is a tough decision, and in no way am I saying you shouldn't make any decision, I just encourage you to consider all aspects before making that decision.
The same with the quick taper. What you say about your decision makes sense, but also, there is a lot to be said for taking your time and minimizing withdrawal symptoms as far as how it relates to your entire mental health issues.
Just be honest with yourself and make sure you aren't overthinking these sleep issues, and as a result, making decisions that could really negatively affect you in so many other ways. No doubt is quality and quantity of sleep ultra important, but so are the other factors to consider.
When your only achieving Stage 2 sleep at night for months and you wake up every day feeling like crap making the decision to get off clonopin as fast as possible is easy. I would rather go through 2 weeks of hell than 3 months of suffering. Some decision in life are much more difficult than others and since I did not realize what type of drug my doctor put me on until I researched it I was tired of waking up with headaches everyday and feeling exhausted. I absolutely agree that Ambien is no t a long term solution But being Bipolar and GAD Im going to need to stay on at least some medication. I take Lithium Seroquel and Celexa and I want off all the drugs except Lithium. Because of its a chemical compound It doesnt interfere with sleep. I only hope that my body learns to sleep on its own again But I think taking something for insomnia to help right now is exceptable. I try my best to practice good Sleep Hygiene which I got from a Therapist. But until the Quality of Sleep improves dramatically Im Still going to have good days and bad days no matter what I do Hygiene-wise. But thanks for the advice
I'm glad you did this the safe way, which is to be tapered off the Klonopin under the guidance of your doctor. In hindsight, you should have let your doctor go as slow as he/she wanted to. With taper plans, especially with someone who has been on a benzo as long as you have, the slower the better, it will minimize withdrawal symptoms. There is never a hurry with these kinds of things. Even if it takes a year or more, it's much easier tolerated.
You will definitely have some rebound insomina, which you will need to speak with your doctor about. I would be very careful using a med like Ambien to combat that, that is just going to prolong the inevitable, which is a period of time with lousy sleep.
Eventually, your sleep patterns and quality will improve, and there are a lot of different approaches you can take to help that doesn't involve medication. Just a few examples, exercise is found to be very helpful, being strict on bedtime rituals, finding activites that help you wind down (TV, reading), etc. Again, your doc can help with those decisions. Just make sure if you and your doc discuss using Ambien or other strong sleep medication, that you plan on a very low dose for the shortest time period possible. And just be prepared to accept that you probably will have to go through some sleepless nights, or in the least, nights with lousy sleep.
Best of luck, let us know how you are making out!
You will definitely have some rebound insomina, which you will need to speak with your doctor about. I would be very careful using a med like Ambien to combat that, that is just going to prolong the inevitable, which is a period of time with lousy sleep.
Eventually, your sleep patterns and quality will improve, and there are a lot of different approaches you can take to help that doesn't involve medication. Just a few examples, exercise is found to be very helpful, being strict on bedtime rituals, finding activites that help you wind down (TV, reading), etc. Again, your doc can help with those decisions. Just make sure if you and your doc discuss using Ambien or other strong sleep medication, that you plan on a very low dose for the shortest time period possible. And just be prepared to accept that you probably will have to go through some sleepless nights, or in the least, nights with lousy sleep.
Best of luck, let us know how you are making out!
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I certainly understand that the medication decision is not an easy one, a LOT of people are against the idea of using medications to treat anxiety. In my own personal experience (I was Dx'd with panic disorder at age 18), it was the combination of both meds and therapy that gave me the best outcome, gave me my life back.
There is no answer to the question "What is the best med for anxiety?". Everyone responds differently, and what may work miracles for me, may not work for you. Tofranil is an older antidepressant from a class of meds known as "tricyclic ADs". They have helped a lot of people, however, the SSRI/SNRI meds have pretty much replaced them due to less side effects and less long term effects. Some people that don't respond well to the SSRI meds may be Rx'ed a Tricyclic, and people have had good results with them. It's an option, but not typically a very common approach.
Typically, another SSRI medication would be tried first before changing class of meds. The doc may want to bump up your Celexa, or try a totally different SSRI (ie Zoloft, Lexapro, Paxil, etc). There are quite a few meds out there and while they are in the same class, their mechanism of action differs slightly from med to med, which is the reason one may be more effective than another.
My personal opinion for YOU would be to remain on the Klonopin. I feel this way for a few reasons. For one, it DID give you many years of relief (or help) with the anxiety. Klonopin of course comes with tolerance and dependence, but sometimes the trade off is worth it. After 8 years, your dose is not that high, so your tolerance issues are not that significant. You really have some wiggle room as far as going up with the dose.
Klonopin is appropriate for long term use (unlike the shorter acting benzos like Ativan, Xanax, which are indicated more for short term courses of treatment). Also, the fact that you have done this taper may actually benefit you. You kind of gave yourself a medication vacation, which will help decrease your tolerance, meaning you may have better results with the same dose, or even slightly lower dose.
This is all stuff you are going to have to discuss with your psychiatrist. It may be as simple as tweaking your med regimen. It's a little trickier, because you have more than one disorder to consider, which is why you have to have a heart to heart with your p-doc about all of this.
I think you will be amazed at how much therapy will help you, especially CBT. CBT works a bit differently than traditional "talk" therapy in that it combines real life exposure to anxiety producing situations, and the therapists are more "hands on". They also do a good bit of psychotherapy (talk therapy), so you can explore your feelings and how this is affecting you. The very best thing you could do for yourself is to go into therapy with an open mind, be willing to really TRY. Don't go in with a negative attitude, a lot of people do that, and struggle to find help from therapy at first, until they become more receptive to what it has to offer.
There are SO many different approaches to treating anxiety. Always ask yor doc/therapist for resources, things you can do at home yourself, outside of therapy. Have them recommend books, exercises. MedHelp has a journal feature, where you can share your feelings and thoughts, and people can then comment and offer suggestions, and you can also set your journal to private, for your eyes only. We also have anxiety and stress trackers, sleep trackers. There are a lot of features that are GREAT tools to use. Our members have found them very helpful. Check them out! There is a lot you can do from home, you'd be amazed. It takes some hard work and patience, as you know...relief doesn't come overnight (much to our dismay).
I don't live in the CITY of Washington, but on the outskirts, closer to Taylorstown. I have a Washington zip code. Hey, maybe we could meet up for coffee some time!?
Hang in there buddy, you are on the right track. It takes a he** of a lot of guts to admit that you were focusing on the wrong thing...putting all your hope on ONE possibility. Truly, I sincerely mean that, that is NOT an easy thing to do, we're a stubborn bunch. You should be proud of that! You are willing to have an open mind and TRY. That's half the battle for some people!
When do you see the doctor again? If not within the next few days, I would call and ask for an urgent appointment, so at least you can formulate a plan to handle the Klonopin for right now. Your doc may want you to resume your prior dose to stabilize you in that respect, before deciding to make any other med changes. You definitely need to be seen soon! Be sure to update us!