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SSRI's and tryptophan
My doctor recently prescribed me Effexor XR 75 mg a day. I've been reading up on interactions and I noticed that tryptophan can have a negative reaction to it.
I bodybuild. I workout 5 days a week and on those days I drink two protein shakes (one before and one after my workout), I noticed that one serving of it has 405 mg of tryptophan in it? Is it ok to keep using this with the EXR?
I bodybuild. I workout 5 days a week and on those days I drink two protein shakes (one before and one after my workout), I noticed that one serving of it has 405 mg of tryptophan in it? Is it ok to keep using this with the EXR?
Hey Paxiled,
I've currently reduced to 10mg of escitalopram and plan to reduce further. I combined this with St. John's Wort and 5 htp and felt worse. My doctor recommended I quit the escitalopram altogether before taking 5 htp and St. John's Wort. How long after I've quit do you think I should start taking the supplements?
Thanks,
Baret
I've currently reduced to 10mg of escitalopram and plan to reduce further. I combined this with St. John's Wort and 5 htp and felt worse. My doctor recommended I quit the escitalopram altogether before taking 5 htp and St. John's Wort. How long after I've quit do you think I should start taking the supplements?
Thanks,
Baret
Ok guys, I know this is an old post but I have to comment. First of all I really highly doubt that tryptophan is the problem. Even the fact that some exists in whey protein will not actually cause your tryptophan levels to rise in your body, because there are other amino acids in that protein that compete for the same transporter as tryptophan. It's more likely the whey protein itself as I've had the exact same problem but did not have this problem while taking pure tryptophan [with or without SSRI]. There are other psychoactive amino acids within that protein and they are more likely the problem. Good luck on everything. I recommend cutting out the whey protein if it's that big of a problem. It is for me and I've tried it more than once.
disclaimer: I don't necessarily recommend taking pure tryptophan with SSRI's though even though I've done it.
disclaimer: I don't necessarily recommend taking pure tryptophan with SSRI's though even though I've done it.
I am currently taking Cymbalta which is an SNRI. I have struggled with depression for years and have found that this particular medication is the only one that works for me. I tried effexor which is also an SNRI and it made my problems worse. I would really like to switch to a natural form of treatment for my depression and anxiety. Do you have any suggestions?
No, you don't have to keep taking anything that doesn't make you feel good. That's the first thing. The second thing is, if you read my previous post, there's probably no added tryptophan in the powder, they're just listing the tryptophan that is found naturally in protein. The more protein, the more tryptophan, which is an amino acid and protein is just a collection of amino acids. The reason they wouldn't add tryptophan to protein powder is that it makes you tired, your workout would go worse, and so you wouldn't buy it anymore. However, I wouldn't personally buy bulk powder from a bin just because the light oxidizes it, so it'll work better if it's protected by a container.
There is another possible problem with whey protein -- it's a dairy product, and most people can't either digest dairy, tolerate it, or are allergic to it. So you've got three likely outcomes from eating any dairy product. Now, usually whey protein is less problematic than, say, drinking milk, because the protein has been isolated, but it still has these possible problems all of which could cause you to get the symptoms you've described. Also, keep in mind that eating too much protein potentially causes kidney problems.
Look, I can't deny that protein powders are great for building muscle. They are. You can try soy protein or rice protein, which are also available. You can try a different whey protein. I personally like the Nature's Life brand of protein powders, especially the one with spriulina, which gives a bit of extra energy, but personally I don't use them. I'm more concerned with health than muscle definition, so when I go to the gym it's to work out, not to look like Arnold. And remember, Arnold has had his health problems, and he's the reason steroids got so popular -- the magazines he owned even told you how to get them and how to inject them. Steroids were probably worth it to him, as was all that extra protein, it made him rich and governor, but it probably won't do that for you, so take care. Also, keep in mind that if you shop at a place like GNC, all sorts of weird things have been found in their protein powders, including steroids and speed. Probably isn't in yours, since you're buying it in bulk -- it's probably made by NOW Foods, which is a discounter but won't add weird things to protein powder. But you never know.
Bottom line? If it doesn't improve your life, don't take it.
There is another possible problem with whey protein -- it's a dairy product, and most people can't either digest dairy, tolerate it, or are allergic to it. So you've got three likely outcomes from eating any dairy product. Now, usually whey protein is less problematic than, say, drinking milk, because the protein has been isolated, but it still has these possible problems all of which could cause you to get the symptoms you've described. Also, keep in mind that eating too much protein potentially causes kidney problems.
Look, I can't deny that protein powders are great for building muscle. They are. You can try soy protein or rice protein, which are also available. You can try a different whey protein. I personally like the Nature's Life brand of protein powders, especially the one with spriulina, which gives a bit of extra energy, but personally I don't use them. I'm more concerned with health than muscle definition, so when I go to the gym it's to work out, not to look like Arnold. And remember, Arnold has had his health problems, and he's the reason steroids got so popular -- the magazines he owned even told you how to get them and how to inject them. Steroids were probably worth it to him, as was all that extra protein, it made him rich and governor, but it probably won't do that for you, so take care. Also, keep in mind that if you shop at a place like GNC, all sorts of weird things have been found in their protein powders, including steroids and speed. Probably isn't in yours, since you're buying it in bulk -- it's probably made by NOW Foods, which is a discounter but won't add weird things to protein powder. But you never know.
Bottom line? If it doesn't improve your life, don't take it.
I am taking an snri and combing it with whey protein isolate powder. Since I began taking the powder I have had bouts of mood swings and headaches which last for about 4 to 5 hours following that I start to calm down. Its obviously the powder because without it I feel great. However, I enjoy training and feel I need a good protein powder. The powder I buy does not come from a specific company. Its one of those powders where you get it yourself. My question is are there any whey protein powders out there with no added trytophan? I need to keep taking it. It also has a good effect on the weight gain side effect snris contribute too.
I am taking an snri and combing it with whey protein isolate powder. Since I began taking the powder I have had bouts of mood swings and headaches which last for about 4 to 5 hours following that I start to calm down. Its obviously the powder because without it I feel great. However, I enjoy training and feel I need a good protein powder. The powder I buy does not come from a specific company. Its one of those powders where you get it yourself. My question is are there any whey protein powders out there with no added trytophan? I need to keep taking it. It also has a good effect on the weight gain side effect snris contribute too.
I forgot to mention in my posts regarding mental healing and such. My two naturopaths both use homeopathy. I am sure running a health food store you are aware of what that is. Anyway, they really go deep into your past, they will ask certain questions and then, they will not only write down your answer, they will also note your reactions during the answer, such as body movements, tone of voice, etc. It is quite complex, and takes awhile, each visit is usually a couple of hours. After they get all the info they need, they will then study your answers and reactions and then match that to the specific homeopathic remedy, it is sort of like fighting like with like. They have done it a few times with me, and I feel it has worked, the only problem is, I usually react fast, then the remedy no longer works and we need to go the second or third step. The one doctor that is the best for this does not live in my town, so, I have to go to here, she is in Seattle, my tiny town has none of these doctors, so, no matter who I see, I have to go out of town.
You are right about herbs, they are the next step to drugs, and should be respected. again, I am lucky, both my doctors know how to use them and what they will react with and where to obtain good, safe, pure ones.
Have you tried acupuncture, I get treatments almost weekly, and I can sure feel a difference after one, they DO calm you down, plus, give you a steadier heart rate, it is awesome.
You are right about herbs, they are the next step to drugs, and should be respected. again, I am lucky, both my doctors know how to use them and what they will react with and where to obtain good, safe, pure ones.
Have you tried acupuncture, I get treatments almost weekly, and I can sure feel a difference after one, they DO calm you down, plus, give you a steadier heart rate, it is awesome.
Actually, hundreds of thousands die every year from pharmaceutical use. Used to be tens of thousands died every year from aspirin, though that's gone down because it's so well known now that aspirin causes rupture of the stomach lining. I wish I had gone the natural route when I started this anxiety attack thing, but I didn't know about them then. I managed health food stores for 18 years, though not for the last seven, Whole Foods has destroyed the industry and made it very difficult in urban areas for the good health food stores that used to share so much information survive. After Paxil withdrawal, natural stuff doesn't work for me; I went off Paxil to try it and now I'm pretty much a goner. Drugs are dangerous, but they also can be the only thing that helps, that was true for me until an incompetent psychiatrist messed me up when I went off Paxil. On the other hand, herbs can be dangerous, too, especially from China, because of contaminants and because so many unknowledgeable people have jumped into the industry to make money. It's good to know someone who's been around for awhile who knows which companies sell reliable products and who might be more suspicious. And the info on drug deaths isn't hidden at all, it comes from CDC statistics. What they don't tell you is how many people had their lives ruined by drugs, only the ones who died. But we also don't know that information for herbs. We're in the dark ages when it comes to medicine, it just doesn't work with the profit motive. Too much of an impulse to hide the truth, which will usually harm sales. Good for you with your naturopath. I tried that once, but he wasn't very good with the mental stuff.
Outstanding post, Paxiled. You are very knowledgeable, you posted stuff I had known but forgotten. :)
I do NOT like GNC, there stuff is not that great. I have excellent sources via the net that my doctor, who is a Naturopath has given me. You know, I wish that more MD's and Naturopaths worked together, it would be wonderful. I hate drugs, I know there are times when they are absolutely necessary, but, for the most part they scare me, and I have read in journals that thousands have been killed by them in hospitals, the AMA just does not want that to be known, but, as I said, I know they are needed at times.
My Naturopath, knows how to deal with both drugs, supplements and herbs, I am very blessed to have her.
Again, thumbs up for your great post, I enjoyed reading it.
Hugs
Susie
I do NOT like GNC, there stuff is not that great. I have excellent sources via the net that my doctor, who is a Naturopath has given me. You know, I wish that more MD's and Naturopaths worked together, it would be wonderful. I hate drugs, I know there are times when they are absolutely necessary, but, for the most part they scare me, and I have read in journals that thousands have been killed by them in hospitals, the AMA just does not want that to be known, but, as I said, I know they are needed at times.
My Naturopath, knows how to deal with both drugs, supplements and herbs, I am very blessed to have her.
Again, thumbs up for your great post, I enjoyed reading it.
Hugs
Susie
Oh, one other comment. Tryptophan isn't illegal anymore. It's again available over the counter, but still not to be taken if you're on an ssri or snri.
There is a difference between supplementing with tryptophan and the natural tryptophan that occurs in food. If the protein supplement you're taking is just whey and nothing else, then you have no problem. If it's added tryptophan, then it's not okay. Tryptophan is the amino acid that builds serotonin in the body, although it's not easy getting it to the brain. Most of the serotonin in the body is actually in the digestive system and blood vessels, and for depression or anxiety you want it in the brain. If you're taking an ssri, then you can suffer from an excess of usable serotonin, since ssris make used serotonin usable longer than it would be ordinarily, preventing it from the natural process of being flushed from the body. So when you're on an ssri, you just can't take tryptophan or the more useful metabolite 5htp. But again, all complete proteins contain tryptophan, and without it in your diet you would die -- it's an essential nutrient. Every protein shake will contain high levels of naturally occurring tryptophan, so what you need to do is check the label and see if it's adding tryptophan or if it's just part of protein. Remember, protein is a collection of amino acids, it isn't something in and of itself. So every protein product will list how much of those amino acids you're getting because that's what protein is, not necessarily because it's an added ingredient. Whey contains a lot of tryptophan, along with a slew of amino acids; that's why it's such an effective protein supplement, though because it's a dairy product you might have digestive problems with it.
Sassy is absolutely correct -- the banning of tryptophan was bogus, it was one tainted batch from one Japanese lab many years ago and was an excuse to take it off drugstore shelves because it's such an effective and cheap sleep aid. But it was never really banned, because you could always get it by prescription, and you could always get 5htp. It was pharmaceutical company lobbying, not fact, that caused it to be banned.
The person who had the problem with natural remedies -- if you read this website you will see that far more people have problems with medication. Clinical trials are meaningless because they're never long lasting enough, and so safety problems usually only come out after the drug has been on the market for awhile. Most herbs, on the other hand, have thousands of years of historical use. It's when people use newer products that really aren't natural at all that problems occur. The father of modern medicine, Hypocrates, was an herbalist. The problem with herbs and natural remedies is that they aren't very strong, and so have to be used in combination, and like medication, some work for some people and not for others, and some cause bad effects in some people and not in others.
For the person taking the protein supplement, be careful where you buy products, and the manufacturer. Many of these body building supplements have ingredients in them that aren't listed on the label. Stay away from GNC, because they'll sell anything, for example. And while protein will help add muscle, one always has to decide how important looks are compared to health.
Sassy is absolutely correct -- the banning of tryptophan was bogus, it was one tainted batch from one Japanese lab many years ago and was an excuse to take it off drugstore shelves because it's such an effective and cheap sleep aid. But it was never really banned, because you could always get it by prescription, and you could always get 5htp. It was pharmaceutical company lobbying, not fact, that caused it to be banned.
The person who had the problem with natural remedies -- if you read this website you will see that far more people have problems with medication. Clinical trials are meaningless because they're never long lasting enough, and so safety problems usually only come out after the drug has been on the market for awhile. Most herbs, on the other hand, have thousands of years of historical use. It's when people use newer products that really aren't natural at all that problems occur. The father of modern medicine, Hypocrates, was an herbalist. The problem with herbs and natural remedies is that they aren't very strong, and so have to be used in combination, and like medication, some work for some people and not for others, and some cause bad effects in some people and not in others.
For the person taking the protein supplement, be careful where you buy products, and the manufacturer. Many of these body building supplements have ingredients in them that aren't listed on the label. Stay away from GNC, because they'll sell anything, for example. And while protein will help add muscle, one always has to decide how important looks are compared to health.
Actually Tryptophane is very safe. The recall that was done many years back was on a tainted batch that came from out of the United States. It is actually a food, and you can get it from Turkey and other meats. I love it, and wish I could still get it. The reason the FDA wanted it off is because when prescribed correctly, it worked better than any SSRI drug. It is actually a natural SSRI in itself. Now, I can NOT take any drugs, they all react the opposite on me, but, L-Trytophan works wonders.
True, some stuff from health food stores you have to be careful, but anymore, they are getting better and better with their products, and I, with all my sensitivities have never had any problem with any of them.
Bottom line, do lots of research on whatever you take, and try to find a doc that is open-minded enough to know about both, drugs and and supplements.
True, some stuff from health food stores you have to be careful, but anymore, they are getting better and better with their products, and I, with all my sensitivities have never had any problem with any of them.
Bottom line, do lots of research on whatever you take, and try to find a doc that is open-minded enough to know about both, drugs and and supplements.
I know that a Triptan should not be used in conjuction with an SSRI or SNRI. I did not find anything on "Trytophan" and it's potential side effect with an SSRI. Not sure if they are the same of different.
Here's the link for Triptans...
http://www.fda.gov/Cder/Drug/advisory/SSRI_SS200607.htm
Here's the link for Triptans...
http://www.fda.gov/Cder/Drug/advisory/SSRI_SS200607.htm
Well I was more concerned about the Tryptophan. I know that there were some fatalies from L-Tryptophan and they pulled it from the shelves but that might be something different. I believe this link is clinically accurate as per what medications interact with it.
http://mental-health.emedtv.com/l-tryptophan/l-tryptophan-drug-interactions.html
http://mental-health.emedtv.com/l-tryptophan/l-tryptophan-drug-interactions.html
Actually the protein powder I take is the top whey in the bodybuilding community, it's well known and used my a ton of people.
From what I know tryptophan is not so safe in general. Why not have a protein shake with known ingredients that are just standard nutrients? A lot of what comes from the health food stores is underegulated. It might very well interact with the SSRI but it wouldn't say that on the label because its not FDA approved. Better to stick with a known quantity. Many of these products are not of much use overall anyway. I would think working out on its own is the best idea. I only say this out of concern because I tried some natural remedies in the past (for mood stabilization purposes but they had some similar ingredients) and they had harmful effects on me. Unfortunately as these products are unregulated you are getting an unknown quantity. Everything that I take now that I describe in my posts is authorized under a clinical study which is another issue but the same stores sell things that can have unpleasent effects. Even Red Bull Energy drink which is sold everywhere has caused some fatalities.
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