Avatar universal

RA? Osteo?

I have been having achesin my joints for the past two years that have gotten worse. I first noticed this when I changed my thyroid medication.   I was feeling tired prior to this and thought maybe changing my thyroid medicine would help. My doctor prescribed tirosint and put me in a state of hyper thyroidism. We switch back to Synthroid. And my TSH was below 1.   My free T3 and free T4 showed more of a normal to hypo range.  II have the aches and my knees hips and one of my ankles in addition sometimes my neck and shoulder hurt. I am a 47-year-old woman and have been on avid weightlifter and runner all my life.  I have extreme stiffness in the morning and I seem to respond to exercise. If I get going I feel better but sometimes pay for it at the end of the day.  I have no pain in my finger joints and blood tests have not shown any elevated blood levels in inflammatory markers. Could this be osteoarthritis? Or Ra?  I have been taking anti-inflammatories and I seem to respond well. In other words it takes away any pain.  I am planning on seeing a rheumatologist soon. Please advise! Thank you!
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1530171 tn?1448129593
Not to be concerned with either one my dear.

Increased magnesium intake does not affect you negatively nor influence calcium status , since the body will eliminate any excess magnesium, unless you have a serious kidney function issue!

Your test result is a very low negative.
IgG antibodies to dsDNA       <30.0 IU/mL (negative)

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Avatar universal
Also got labs back. My DNA ds antibody was 1. What does this mean?
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Avatar universal
If you supplement too much, Can magnesium oil throw off your calcium?  
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Avatar universal
Thanks Niko!
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1530171 tn?1448129593
Don't count on the nutrients from the soil anymore, as it is mostly depleted.

Commerial fertilizers contain very few elements and usually only the cheapest.

Corporate farming has no obligation to supply products with high nutriotional value. Their only goal is profitability, my dear.

You gotta read the book:
"The End of Food" How the Food Industry Is Destroying Our Food Supply-And What You Can Do About It
The author Thomas Pawlick is a very brilliant researcher.

Most of us are deficient and as I said oral magnesium is very poorly
absorbed, so I'm glad you're doing the transdermal treatment.

BTW, I also eat greens like a rabit, mostly organic, but again this does not mean more nutrients necessarliy.

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Avatar universal
  I did get the mg oil.  I like it. I have noticed I am sleeping better.   Wondering how I could be deficient if I eat so many leafy greens!  I mean a lot!
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1530171 tn?1448129593
"Arthritic peptide, glucose-6-phosphate isomerase, is an endogenous molecule associated with joints. This cytoplasmic enzyme catalyzes the second step of glycolysis and is found at low levels in serum. Arthritic peptide can stimulate KRN T cells when processed and presented by antigen presenting cells.
Antibodies Appear in:
Mixed Connective Tissue Disease
Rheumatoid Arthritis"
----Source: Cyrex Labs (for Health Professionals)----

FYI,Cyrex Labs is a high-complexity clinical laboratory offering innovative tests designed to detect and monitor autoimmune reactivities and their possible triggers.

From an older post of mine in regards to bone density, osteoarthritis and osteoporosis:
"BMD ( bone mineral density) may be easy to measure, but it is not particularly predictive of fractures and other problems, which is the outcome most patients care about.
One very overlooked and yet equally important factor
( even perhaps of greater importance ) is bone flexibility.
Collagen levels, B- vitamins, vitamin D, vitamin K2  along with osteocalcin status make up the collagen matrix that supports the mineral composition.

So do not be overly concerned with the BMD level. This is just one out of many parameters regarding bone health."

Magnesium is a very important mineral for the development of bone and is required for the synthesis of DNA, RNA, and the antioxidant glutathione.
Magnesium is a cofactor in more than 300 enzyme systems that regulate diverse biochemical reactions in the body, including protein synthesis, muscle and nerve function, blood glucose control, and blood pressure regulation [1-3]. Magnesium is required for energy production, oxidative phosphorylation, and glycolysis.
Magnesium also plays a role in the active transport of calcium and potassium ions across cell membranes, a process that is important to nerve impulse conduction, muscle contraction, and normal heart rhythm,
according to the fact sheet for professionals, from NIH.

Most people are deficient in tissue magnesium (bones and soft tissue levels), which cannot be assessed correctly by serum testing.

My opinion is to do transdermal "magnesium oil" treatments-I already mentioned this to you Gzismo and you're probably doing it by now-

Hope this helps.

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Avatar universal
Did your blood work reflect autoimmune disease right away?  My main problem is the muscle and joint pains. Nothing else really. I feel like I dislocated something or strained a different muscle every couple of months.
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Avatar universal
Oh I forgot to ask if osteoperosis presents itself like this? Pain and stiffness?
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Avatar universal
Hi, just wanted to give everyone an update on my situation. My ana was a weak positive. Dr said theANA panel was negative---did not show any patterns worrisome for any particular disease.  Ok, so I have had this random ankle swelling as one of my symptoms. Had xray radioligist said fractured and ortho ankle specialist said perfectly healthy. He suggested seeing a rheumy. No signs of fracture, arthritis, osteoperosis!  So maybe this is a soft tissue problem?  Ready to ask for an mri.  I can't figure this out. I feel ok aside from this pain and stiffness I get in my knees, hips and now one ankle with swelling. I am still active but not to the degree I was before It feels like my body is falling apart. I respond very well to NSAIDs  it's like I feel like I have to take a few through the week and things calm down for a few days. Also, can't get into rheumy until April.  Any ideas are welcome.
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1530171 tn?1448129593
If it's a low grade infection of some sort, it's probably hiding from the immune system somewhere in the tissues after all this time and usually antibiotics won't be able to do much, specially if it is a pathogen without a cell wall,a viral agent or mycoplasma.
The antibiotics have only bactreriostatic (ability to arrest bacteria) action on these types-not bactericidal (ability to destroy bacteria).
Many of these pathogens disguise themselves in cellular membrane they take from the host cells, which makes their eradication even more challenging.
You can get tons of info form Dr. Garth Nicolson on this-he's a real nice and intelligent man , I've learnt a great deal of specifics regarding this field from him- he's part time here at medhelp and also the world's top expert in pathogenic infectious diseases like mycoplasma, babesia, bartonella , ehrichia etc. Just do search here in medhelp under his name.
If you want info on recommended antibiotic treatments, he's the authority.

You don't seem to fit the profile for Lyme's and Lupus usually has a much wider spectrum of symptoms than what you have, but having said this anything is possible, I guess.
Did you consider switching to NDT or looking further into the adrenals?
Cortisol regulates the immune cells in our gut so when cortisol is depleted those cells become dysregulated, making us more susceptible to pathogens like bacteria, yeast, and parasites.
For details  look into the "GI Pathogen Screen", which is a test recommended  if your cortisol levels come back low after you have the Adrenal Stress profile done.

And you're welcome!

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Avatar universal
Thanks Niko!  I am planning on get ting the Boswellia tomorrow. I think I am going to try to find a quality one at the vitamin shoppe. I sometimes think I have some kind of infection. I would think in the 2 years of this nightmare would have had high WBC counts or fevers.  I have been nested for Lyme disease but as I understand this is difficult to diagnose. I have a md that is pretty open to things and I thought about being treated with antibioticsto see if symptoms get better.  I still am concerned about lupus. I got that rash down my leg. It doesn't look like the lupus rash though.  Niko, thanks for your help!  
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1530171 tn?1448129593
Hey Gzsimo.

As I mentioned in a previous reply, AOR has a nano-available Boswellia supplement which I believe is more efficient.
It costs a bit more and you may have to order it online if you can't get it locally.
If cost is a factor, MSM powder is fairly inexpensive and with a broader therapeutic potential.
Botwellia on the other hand has a direct action on inflammatory chemicals like TNFa and Leukotrienes.

And yes, X-rays are able to identify OA, as the space between the bones
is less when cartilage is worn, uneven joints, synovial cysts formation, all typical of OA.

The migrating pain you speak of, often has to do with  the feeling of the worse pain the most, when you have multiple areas of pain. As this pain decreases, the second worse pain becomes the worse, taking over temporarily till it starts decreasing. If somebody would give you a real hard kick in the butt or shin, you'd likely forget about all your other pains lol!
until the new pain subsides, right?
It also may have to do with underlying infections which are not static.

Happy Thanksgiving!
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Avatar universal
With osteoarthritis does the pain move around. For example, one week it's my neck and the next week it's my hips!  Can osteoarthritis be identified on X-ray? Thanks
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Avatar universal
Thanks Niko!  I will stay in touch. I will do my research. Any particular brand  of Boswellia you recommend that I can pick up at my local vitamin store?
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1530171 tn?1448129593
OK, as promised, organic MSM (methylsulfonylmethane)-it's a mouthful  lol!-
Some of its possible benefits:

--Blocks inflammations and inflammatory processes thru “Methylation.”
--Speeds up all healing processes both thru methylation and sulfur contribution
--Muscle relaxant... Chronic pain is aggravated by muscle tension.
-- Dilates blood vessels, enhancing the blood circulation & lower blood pressure.
--Enhances the activity of cortisol, a natural anti-inflammatory hormone
--Helps eliminate waste products and excess cellular fluids through “Sulfation.”
--Improves the uptake of nutrients, vitamins, and minerals in general.
--Improves all natural defense mechanisms in the body.
--Improves liver function.
--Analgesic: it blocks the transfer of pain impulses through nerve fibers (C-fibers).

There are many more things it can do for you, too many to list.

You don't need to buy the most expensive.

I buy the 5lbs horse MSM in powder form-It's fine for human consumption as it is organic and and is 99.7% pure-
I take 2 x 1 heaping teaspoon daily. I let it stay in my mouth for 5 minutes (it's bitter at first) and then wash it down with a glass of spring water. Taking it about 1h before meals is better. You should start with 1/4 teaspoon daily and increase gradually till you reach 2 x 1 teaspoons daily (heaping over 150 lbs).
Note: Some people may require even higher doses, depending the severity of the conditions, age etc., so in the event your improvement is only
minimal, I suggest you increase your intake gradually, until you experience notable results.
In the US it costs from  $35.00 up + shipping and it will go a long way.

Some people who experience rapid improvement with their issues may experience a phenomenon called the Apex Effect, where they cannot remember the details of their former problem!!!

Please again, do your own research on this.
FYI I have never come across anyone who had any issues with MSM.

The only complaint was the bitter taste, but I found that within a few weeks
the taste was not  offensive anymore. What would you choose if you had a choice --> 5 minutes of bitterness twice a day, or ongoing joint pain?

If you have any questions, I'm just a click away.


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1530171 tn?1448129593
Virgin organic coconut oil has anti-microbial, anti-viral, anti-parasitic, anti-fungal and anti-inflammatory properties. My top recommendation.

Boswellia is a herb that is a great anti-inflammatory and immmunomodulator.
It inhibits lipoxigenase enzymes, thus impairing the synthesis of Leukotrienes (inflammatory molecules).
The full effect may take a few weeks of supplementation.
Ensure highest quality of standardised Boswellia serrata extract, containing about 40% of Boswellia acids.
There seem to be no established guidelines for dosage, but about 500mg x2 daily with food, is consistent with most practitioners' recommendations.

Please look into this as I feel, is worthwhile and with no known side effects-this has been used in Ayurvedic Medicine for 1000s of years, with no issues, as an anti-inflammatory.

AOR has a nanoAVAILABLE Boswellia supplement, if you wish to check it out.
I think it has greater bio-avalibility.
Taking it with meals that contain fats (best is coconut oil-heated OK-, or olive oil but not heated!)
The effectiveness gets boosted up to 700% (not a typo) when taken with fats!

gtg now, but next post I'll give you some information on MSM.

Meanwhile you can do your research on the above.

For details on coconut oil you can check the coconut research website.
BTW, next week I'm delivering two speeches on the benefits of coconut oil
in my town.

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Avatar universal
Thanks.  I did some research and agree. Any supplements you recommend?
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1530171 tn?1448129593
Because Deer Velvet  contains estrogens and testosterone, hormone-sensitive conditions, like breast cancer, endometriosis, estrogen dominance,etc.would get exasperated, I think long term use should be considered very carefully.
Most Doctors on the other hand , do not have the knowledge nor the time to advise you on such matters, outside the scope of their conventional treatments.

I'm familiar with Deer Velvet Antler as I knew the owner of a large deer farm
in my area , who supplied a few nutraceutical manufacturers with antlers.

We boiled fragments of the deer antlers and made tea, however, since I found out about  it containing steroid hormones, I never tried it again, as I was avoiding anything that would contribute to benign prostate hyperplasia
or other related  issues, caused by dihydrotestosterone in men.

There are many other safe herbal, natural anti-inflammatories for joint pain,
to my opinion, so for this reason alone, I'd say no to Deer Velvet.

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1530171 tn?1448129593
Hey Gzsimo, just sent you the questionnaire.

Check  the Institute for Functional Medicine website and click on Patients for details.
There's a list of questions to ask Functional Medicine Practitioners,
including one about insurance and payment.
Many would work on skype, if distance is an issue.

Hope this helps.
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Avatar universal
Yes, send me some info.  Do you by chance know of a decent functional medicine doctor that insurance will cover?
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1530171 tn?1448129593
Well the best test I know of is the Adrenal Stress Profile from biohealth labs.
Don't attempt to treat adrenals on your own.
I have studied adrenals and I found that complex fields like epigenetics and neurology are easier to understand than adrenals (at least in the beginning)
Best doctors to treat adrenals are Functional Medicine doctors ,who have
training in Holistic Endocrinology. No insurance coverage though.
Whatever you end up doing, make sure you take only bio-identical hormones and not synthetic ones.
Huge difference!

I can send you a self-assessment questionnaire if you're interested, in a pm. I just need to dig it out. I have a gazillion articles , reports etc. archived.

Whatever you have sounds like it's in the initial stages, since your energy levels are still OK, which means that it would not take too long to recover.

Optimizing your energy levels is key to recovery and healing.

Take care.
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Avatar universal
Thanks!  You are very helpful. Yes, adrenal issues make since and I have thought of this before. The problem is I don't know of any doctor that will treat this or is knowledgeable to treat this in my area! Believe me I have a kind of researched a bit of this!  The ones that do acknowledge it simply recommend a over-the-counter supplement. I have gone down that went out with little relief.  I am afraid to try the natural T4. And my Endo does not believe in the consistency of it. I was okay on Synthroid before! I don't know why I'm not okay on it now.  If of course that is what is wrong with me.  I still think I am a bit on the hyper side. My energy through all of this has been okay, except when I am experiencing pain!  Do you recommend any tests or supplements for the adrenals?   Any test that insurance may cover?  You know there are so many rheumatic conditions too that this may be. I considered a possible infection but my white blood cell count has been okay. No fevers that I am aware of. Premenopausal? Don't know. All I know is this started when I was burning the candle on both ends!  Fibromyalgia?  Thanks, Niko, for letting me bounce ideas of of you!
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1530171 tn?1448129593
Come to think about it, I know at least 3 more people personally, with serious health issues because of overtraining and inadequate recovery.
The biological stress on the body in addition to the physical stress
eventually lead to adrenal* issues( which is the biggest concern) among other ones.  

No, don't think Lupus because of the ANA which is far too low for it to be indicative at this point. Lupus is a very complex diagnosis.

I think you missed the point I tried to make earlier.

Your TSH won't matter much when you have thyroid resistance.
Thyroid resistance comes from T4 when T4 it gets converted to rT3 .
Levothyroxine (Tirosint) and Synthroid  are both synthetic forms of thyroxine (T4), so should you have thyroid resistance (over and above normal levels), your thyroid meds would be the direct source!
T4  meds have a history of problems.

Most hypothyroid patients do better on natural desiccated thyroid but in lower doses when rT3 is elevated, which by the way will never be available in a generic formulation!
RT3 is a normal part of thyroid function as it converts excess T4, but when inflammation (swelling-stiffness-joint pain), low iron (often because of T4 meds causing low gastric acid and possibly also linked to your nausea),
low adrenal function* (stress), low selenium ( b'cause of low absorption) are present, then rT3 gets elevated, affecting thyroid function negatively
Despite what your labs indicate!

Do you see yourself there in what I just explained? No mystery.. and NSAIDS don't help the situation much in the long-term.

If the underlying causes remain unaddressed, rT3 remains elevated.
If the causes are removed and rT3 levels are still high, adding T3 (cytomel)
to your NDT usually helps but it takes a few weeks to figure it out and regulate it properly. Not an exact science, by any means,lol!

You're concerned about Lupus so please read the following:

When I was studying Dr.Barnes work (one of the top experts in thyroid research-diagnosis and treatment), one particular finding stayed with me.
From ALL the thousands of patients he treated for hypothyroid
(using natural desiccated thyroid ) NONE of these patients developed Lupus!!!
The ones who had been already diagnosed with Lupus,  NONE developed any new signs of organ involvement, while being treated by Dr. Barnes for hypothyroid.

I understand that these concepts are often confusing and that's why I took the time to present it to you in a way that you can understand it.

Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions at all.

Take care.

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