Aa
Aa
A
A
A
Close
280891 tn?1261013050

Just a few thoughts on autoimmunity

I could have put this topic in about 4 autoimmune categories.  I have 4 AD so far, diagnosed, and that's not counting *what I believe to be MS* and who knows what else.

Just a few thoughts about autoimmune diseases...

It drives me crazy thinking, should I avoid Gluten?  Was it all of the vaccinations I received?  Was it because I never had Chicken Pox (or the anti-body), despite being exposed to it repeatedly as a child, as an adult, and even had the vaccination for it while I was pregnant?  And yet, no anti-body for it is still in me.  Is it because the world is so clean, that our immune systems go into a recluse phase because they don't think they have to work as hard?  Is it molecular mimicry, like in Rheumatic Fever, in ALL cases, but we just don't know that?  Is it because hormonal birth control was invented?  It is something in the plastic, the water, the environment?  Or, is it THAT easy to say, we don't know, it's "probably" a combination of things?  

Your thoughts?  
52 Responses
Sort by: Helpful Oldest Newest
Avatar universal
I was just passing through this forum and read your post with regards to having low white blood cell counts.  Mine has been low for years and I am afflicted with 4 different Auto-immune disorders.  They are all skin disorders.  There definitely is a CORE reason why some people get auto-immune disorders and others are never bothered. I always took better care of myself than either of my two older sisters, yet, I am the one with all the disorders.  Cannot find anyone else in my family with all these issues as well.  I am baffled and have been since being diagnosed with all of these insidious disorders.  I have Macular anyloidosis (I am of Norwegian descent, don't fit the mold on this one) Rosaeca, Lichen Sclerosis and Menieres disease.  I keep wondering what is waiting on me around the corner.  JUST WANTED to let you know your statement about the low WBC being prevalent in people with auto-immune disorders grabbed me....
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Where are the posts for 2012?
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Where are the posts for 2012?
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I was wondering why my questions didn't get answered?  Maybe Dr. Garth isn't here a lot.
Anyone else?
~
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Wouldn't you agree that there is NOT enough support for people to make the changes needed in the United States..to help heal their bodies?  Most of the people that I have come across in the workshops I teach have NO CLUE what or how they are to make any of the changes you stated above ( diet, removal of toxins, taking of supplements).

Wouldn't it benefit the people who come to this forum to have a place to LEARN ALL of the therapies that are available?  A place that lists websites to check out alternative answers, besides the medical ones that are on this site?  Don't people deserve to have SUPPORT and INFORMATION to make the best decisions possible for their own health care?

I'm not talking about changing what's already in place here...but a new forum that is all about alternative therapies?

People need support to try new things.  The medical profession, I'm sure you'll agree, does a nice job of focusing on symptoms and dealing with those symptoms. And many times the drugs they use for symptoms cause MORE HARM than good. But many of us, including myself, want MORE answers.  Maybe the doctors here aren't feeling they are qualified to give advice about alternative therapies?  Can we get some doctors on board that are?  I would think that would benefit the people here greatly, because I know I am not the only one who wants MORE.

Thank you.
Helpful - 0
642304 tn?1242606724
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
After reading the many useful posts that accompanied this comment, I will add to the discussion.  Are food (diet), heavy metal (and chemical) toxins important in these complex diseases?  Of course they are, and they need to be carefully considered in each case.  In general, we have found that most patients have poor quality diets for the condition that they suffer from.  Moreover, correcting diet and adding appropriate supplements can result in significant improvements, but correcting diet alone rarely resulted in complete recovery.

Can diet plus removal of toxins be the solution? In some cases they are and can certainly help, but often patients with complex signs and symptoms have these as well as other problems, especially infections that affect our immune system and cause complex signs/symptoms on their own. Foods and removal of toxins alone can't always solve the problem, but changes in diet, proper supplements and removal of offending toxins have certainly helped patients with complex problems.

Thus for most patients all of the above has to be considered.  For most patients with complex symptoms there is no one factor that can be corrected and allow for complete or even partial recovery.
Helpful - 0
535822 tn?1443976780
Thank you for all the information I have just read from you allI am going to re read it and make notes there is so much would you give me Dr Fuhrman's website link ...My own input and I am not as knowledgeble as you, is that something triggered my syptoms of Autoimmune as I was reasonably okay till a dental trauma ,also I moved to an area of possible pesticides used in growing grapes for Wine ..Thank you all ,this is one great forum
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I have/had Hashimoto's , Pernicious Anemia, and was close to having Diabetes...
am no where near the diabetes diagnoses any longer..the Hashimoto numbers are dropping along with my amount of compounded armour thyroid meds ( usually it's the other way around, the medical doctors like to raise your medication to make your antibody numbers to come down). The pernicious anemia is correcting itself with my diet changes...I've steadly decreased the amount of B-12 I have to take for the Pernicious Anemia as my body is better absorbing the B-12 from my diet ...as I have cut down on the amount of wheat and gluten I am eating which has everything to do with the absorption rate in the intestines.

~Amy~
Helpful - 0
280891 tn?1261013050
If you don't have an autoimmune disease, you shouldn't be posting on this portion of the site, in my own humble opinion.  I started this discussion to hear from people with *diagnosed* cases of one or more autoimmune diseases, and I seriously don't need to know how some doctor, somewhere, took a boy's tooth and inserted it into a hundred rabbits (seriously?!?!  Is that even possible?)  It only makes sense because plaque in the teeth is the same/leads to plaque in the heart, and I'm not shocked why the rabbits  all had heart attacks.  

This isn't a cancer, anti-meat, pro-raw food section of the website.  All I'm saying is that there's gotta be a common link, and if you cannot add anything to it (and you can't because you don't have an autoimmune disease nor did you scientifically study any) go somewhere else.  No offense, but cancer and raw food and toxin poisons are studied enough.  AI diseases are not.    

I'm glad that you are capable of looking up autoimmune diseases in books and thinking that foods are gonna cure it.  They aren't.  If they DID work, doctors would recommend them.  Again, I'm all for having a balanced diet, it's the starting point to being healthy.  

And just so you know, the liver and kidney process out mercury and other toxins.  Toxins have VERY LITTLE to do with the immune system.  They can't go into the extracellular materials and hide out as Borrelia burgdorferi, the culprit of Lyme Disease, does.  They get eliminated by the liver and kidneys and DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING to do with autoimmune diseases.  The worst things toxins can do is to immune systems is make them weak while our bodies process them out.  But that's ok, because when you have an autoimmune disease, your body's immune system is in hyperactive mode anyways.  So, IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.  

Another thing... I hope you aren't spending too much money on quack doctors, their books and websites.  If it works for you, great.  I'm glad for you.  But guess what?  I need my thyroid medicine, I need my beta blocker, or else I WILL have a heart attack.  Meds are NOT always a necessary evil.  And I need MRIs and not food, because even though I eat healthy and take vitamins, something is neurologically not correct with me and raw food isn't gonna do a damn thing about that.

If you're so raw food and yadda yadda yadda, go to THAT portion of the website.

I want answers from people who have autoimmune diseases, to see if we can find a common thread that doctors and researchers are just missing.  What I don't need is  "common sense meets quackery" that the two of you keep posting.  
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
con't

Doctors not supportive
Most of the patients with lupus or
rheumatoid arthritis who follow
my advice tell a similar story. Sadly,
their other doctors often bristle at
even the suggestion that a natural
approach might be a solution to the
problem. Debra Black’s story is typical.
(See box at right.)
Having been diagnosed with
lupus and told that she would have
to take drugs for the rest of her life,
Debra sought an alternative. After
adopting my program of nutritional
excellence, she rapidly recovered
her health. Her only disappointment
came when she returned to
the doctor who gave her the initial
diagnosis. Thinking he would be
pleased to see the remarkable progress
she had made, she was shocked
both by his clear lack of interest
in a possible nutritional solution to
lupus and his rude response.
How my program works
Dietary intervention is my chief
component of care.Achieving superior
health via nutritional excellence
gives a person with an autoimmune
disorder the only opportunity
for a complete drug-free remission.
In many cases, a vegetarian
diet alone helps substantially. It is
important to keep in mind that
food is our major contact with the
external environment, and food
choices can negatively or positively
modulate the immune system. In
addition to inherently toxic substances
that may be ingested, intact
peptides and proteins (partially
digested animal proteins) can bridge
the walls of the digestive tract and
can be absorbed into the circulation,
playing a significant role in
promoting an excessive antibody response,
contributing to autoimmune
diseases.
However, in most cases,more specific
dietary modifications, along
with nutritional supplements, are required
to maximize the therapeutic
response.Over the past fifteen years,
having treated and helped hundreds
of patients with autoimmune disease,
I have found that the greatest
percentage of patients achieve excellent
results if they utilize a high-nutrient
dietary program rich in greens
and especially the cruciferous vegetables
such as cabbage,broccoli,and
kale in conjunction with some helpful
nutritional supplements.
The protocol has nine important
features:
1. High-nutrient, vegan diet,
rich in green vegetables
2. Blended salads and blended
soups (utilizing leafy greens)
to increase absorption of
favorable phytochemical
compounds
3. Fresh vegetable juice
DR. FUHRMAN’S HEALTHY TIMES • NOVEMBER 2004 3
(See Autoimmune Disease on p.4.)



(carrots, beets, parsley, kale,
and other greens)
4. High-dose fish oils or plantderived
EPA and DHA
5. Beneficial bowel flora
6. Natural anti-inflammatory
herbs such as turmeric,
quercetin, ginger, and
bioflavonoids.
7. Multivitamin/mineral,
plus additional vitamin D
supplementation
8.Water-only fasting, used
periodically, if necessary
9. Dietary avoidance of salt,
wheat, and oil
Fueling your immune
system with greens
I recommend the daily consumption
of a thick vegetable soup, which can
be made in advance in large amounts
so it is readily available to use for
lunch the entire week. Zucchini,
leeks, and leafy greens such as chard,
cabbage, kale, bok choy, or broccoli
are added to a liquid base made from
freshly-squeezed vegetable juice and
water. Vegetables such as parsnips,
carrots, mushrooms, lentils, split
peas, and spices can be added, too.
What makes this soup unique is that
the leeks, zucchini, and other greens
are blended until smooth into the
soup liquid (veggie juice), increasing
the absorption of the beneficial compounds.
Softening vegetables via
soup cooking has been shown to
increase the bioavailability of beneficial
phytochemical compounds. I
also encourage the use of freshlysqueezed
vegetable juice using carrots,
parsley, beets, cabbage, and kale
before dinner as well. Pomegranate
juice is also a favorable addition.
Last, but not least, I teach patients
how to make a raw spinach and lettuce
blended salad, with fruits and
nuts or avocado added to make a
great tasting, high-nutrient treat.
Blending the salad to a creamy consistency
has the dramatic effect of
increasing absorption of beneficial
phytochemicals over 500 percent
compared with eating salad.
High dose fish oils
High doses of EPA (eisosapentaenoic
acid) and DHA (docosahexaenoic
acid) have been shown to lower
immune reactivity and to inhibit inflammatory
response.These supplements
make important contributions
in the recovery of many patients.
Dosages in the range of 1.2 to
4 grams of the active components
(EPA + DHA) typically are needed.
Not all patients with autoimmune
disorders are fish oil responsive,and
the anti-inflammatory effect should
not be expected to lead to striking
improvements without implementing
all of the other components of
the dietary and nutritional program.
These EPA and DHA (long-chain
omega-3) fatty acids are used in
conjunction with a dietary program
that is low in omega-6 fats and saturated
fat. This fatty acid environment
suppresses the production of
pro-inflammatory substances that
normally are produced from increased
amounts of arachidonic
acid, derived from omega-6 fats.
Omega-3 long-chain fatty acids
also have been found to suppress
production of inflammatory cytokines
and cartilage degradation enzymes.
Their beneficial anti-inflammatory
effects have been demonstrated
in hundreds of randomized,
double-blinded, placebo-controlled
trials.It is difficult to understand why
well-studied, effective, natural substances
are generally ignored by the
medical community.Perhaps it is that
these substances do not provide the
industry with the opportunity for
substantial profit compared to what
is possible with patented prescription
items.
Taking high doses of fish oil is not
without any risk, but compared to
drugs, the potential drawbacks are
slight. Fish oils are also susceptible
to contamination with lipophilic
organic chemicals that are now
ubiquitous contaminants of marine
ecosystems. Some fish-derived products
cannot be recommended for
this reason.
Recently, I have addressed this
concern by developing an all-plantderived
EPA and DHA supplement.
As far I can tell, it is the only allvegan
EPA and DHA available anywhere
in the world. It enables people
to get the same beneficial fats in
fish (including the EPA) without
the possibility of pollutants and
mercury. It is also freeze-dried to
extend shelf life and prevent rancidity.
Look for DHA-EPA Purity,
available at DrFuhrman.com in
December 2004.
Supplemental bowel flora
The hundreds of billions of bacteria
cells that inhabit our bowels play a
critical role in the health of our
immune system. Seventy percent of
the immune system is located in the
gastrointestinal (GI) tract.The microflora
of the GI tract constitute a complex
ecosystem that can be viewed
as an organ of the body, as these
microbes profoundly influence physiologic
processes of the host.Certain
normal metabolic functions and
enzyme activities can be attributed
to the microflora, and these play a
role in metabolizing nutrients, vitamins,
drugs, endogenous hormones,
and carcinogens; synthesizing shortchain
fatty acids; preventing colonization
of pathogens; and modulating
the normal immune response.
The bowel offers some degree of
protection from harmful materials
which are ingested. The process of
absorption takes place via the
microvilli of the intestinal walls.
Normal bowel permeability permits
assimilation of nutrients while providing
protection against pathogens
Autoimmune Disease
Continued from page 3
(See Autoimmune Disease on p.6.)
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
A newsletter entry from Nov. 2004 of Dr. Fuhrman's

By Joel Fuhrman, M.D.
This issue of the newsletter is
about rheumatologic disease:
diseases such as psoriasis, lupus,
rheumatoid arthritis, and connective
tissue disease, but there are
about a hundred clinical syndromes
considered autoimmune disease.
The term rheumatoid arthritis was
coined in 1858 to differentiate this
type of joint pain and bodily symptoms
from gouty arthritis, which
was more common in those days
among wealthier Europeans eating
rich foods.
Rheumatologic diseases refer to a
group of systemic illnesses characterized
by the immune system’s attacks
on joints and other parts of
the body. Today, the words autoimmune
and rheumatologic are interchangeable;
they are marked by
inflammatory markers in the blood.
Inflammatory bowel diseases, such
as Crohn’s and ulcerative colitis, also
are autoimmune diseases, but they
are not classified as rheumatologic
because they typically are cared for
by gastroenterologists, not rheumatologists.
Nevertheless, they are diseases
where inflammatory markers
are visible in the blood and are of
the same class as systemic autoimmune
disorders.
Autoimmune diseases are caused
by an inflammatory process regulated
by our immune system. Inflammation
normally protects the host
from foreign invaders by isolating
and destroying bacteria, viruses, and
other toxic or foreign agents. It is a
highly complex process involving
many types of cells, a number of
enzymes, and many physiologically
active materials that alter local blood
flow and cell behavior.
In Pathological Basis of Disease,
the leading pathology text used by
most medical students, inflammation
is explained poetically:
“The inflammatory response is
closely intertwined with the
process of repair. Inflammation
serves to destroy, dilute, or
wall off the injurious agent,
but in turn sets into motion a
complex series of events that,
as far as possible, heal and
reconstitute the damaged tissue.
Repair begins during the
early phase of inflammation
but reaches completion usually
after the injurious influence
has been neutralized....Humans
owe to inflammation their
ability to contain injuries and
heal defects.Without inflammation,
infections would go
unchecked, wounds would
never heal, and injured organs
would remain permanent festering
sores.”


Understanding biology and pathology
helps us to understand how
immune system disorders can be
treated and how nutritional therapy
works. Poisoning the immune attack
into submission with toxic drugs is
one avenue of attack.This leads to a
continual and increased buildup of
toxic and irritating immune system
stimulating substances, which could
increase the requirement for more
drugs down the road and make for a
more severe response if the medications
are discontinued.The road less
traveled is to attempt to remove the
noxious and injurious influences
promoting the excessive immune
attack and to normalize the excessive
immune system response by
adopting a program of nutritional
excellence.
In most of the rheumatologic diseases,
the inciting agent stimulating
an excessive immune attack is
unknown, and the inflammatory
reaction becomes detrimental to the
host. Unfortunately, in untreated
autoimmune illnesses, the immune
attack against unknown stimuli does
not stop and leads to destructive,
harmful sequelae (aftereffects).
Our complicated immune response
is controlled with a system
of checks and balances, just like our
democratic government. Many
components are involved in this
immune-mediated attack. First, our
antibodies label areas worthy of
attack, then other cells work to call
out the alarm—secreting substances
that attract and promote
proliferation of other attacking
cells. Finally, there are cells that
control the attack, modify it, and
turn it off at the precise moment to
prevent an excessive response. In
autoimmune disorders such as lupus,
we have an immune response that
reacts in an uncontrollable fashion,a
response that is not properly immuno-
regulated.
Increased understanding
As our understanding of the mechanism
and causes of inflammation
increases, so does our ability to
understand the factors that create a
favorable environment for improvement
and healing of autoimmune
disease. The scientific basis for the
nutritional treatment of autoimmune
disease hinges on the removal
of cellular toxins, bacterialelaborated
toxins from our digestive
tract, food excesses, and food
toxins, while at the same time supplying
a high level of nutritional
factors that help normalize a malfunctioning
(excessive) immune
response that overreacts to stimuli
and does not shut off.
In spite of excellent clinical
results and the publication of case
studies and medical journal articles
documenting favorable outcomes,
medical authorities and major research
centers are not interested in
studying nutritional excellence as a
therapy for rheumatologic diseases.
It is difficult to move against an
entrenched status quo that wrongly
assumes that medications are the
only option. If my approach to autoimmune
illnesses was taught in medical
schools and residency programs,
primary care physicians could begin
this nutritional approach at the earliest
signs of autoimmune illness with
their patients, instead of prescribing
a lifetime of medications that have
dangerous side effects.
Dramatic recovery
Patients can achieve incredible success.
Here is how Cheryl Platt describes
her experience with my
approach:
I had lupus for 20 years. I took
Plaquenil, methotrexate, prednisone
and other toxic drugs in
high dosages, but still lived my
life imprisoned in isolation and
pain with many lost years. I
searched on the web for years
looking for something else.
During this time, I tried acupuncture,
chiropractic, massage,
exercise, stress management,
vitamins, herbs, various
oils (including fish oils), antibiotics,
and other treatments. I
am so grateful to have found
Dr. Fuhrman. Thanks to him,
today I have a normal life, full
of energy.The joint pain is gone,
and I am on no medication.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Correction..it's not oxalic acid it's ALKALOIDS...and it is RAW Family dot commmm.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Something I came across on Dr. Fuhrman's site...a direct answer to a woman's question about autoimmune disease...read what he wrote in response...

QUESTION:
Can you tell me what is the relationship between wheat or dairy (animal product) and auto-immune disease such as Lupus?, why is it that these should not be consummed at all? Since starting Eat To Live last April I have had a great reduction of symptoms triggered by sun exposure. Even when using a high SPF sunblock, I still get skin blisters but they are rare, small, and heal faster, and not accompanied by arthritic pain, anemia, or extreme fatigue and forgetfulness. It seems that when I have even small amounts of wheat (like a small round of pita bread or 1/2 a glass of skim milk) I am more prone to react to sun exposure. Am I correct? What is the underlying mechanism?

When the auto-immune disease is completely revesed, when all test results are normal and when there is no flare-up following sun exposure, can small, occasional amounts or wheator dairy be re-introduced in the diet whithout negative side effects?

Thank you very much for your book and for this forum, it is much much appreciated.

ANSWER:
This is an incredibly complicated and not understood subject and there are multiple (poorly understood) reasons, plus I could write an entire book on this subject and do not want to do that here. But, if anyone thinks they have all the answers to this one, don't believe it.
Besides the immunogenic stimulation from partially digested animal proteins (peptides) Mycobacterium avium paratuberculosis bacteria survives pasteurization and is found in most milk. This bacteria can promote an immune response and eventually trigger and autoimmune cascade. Dairy also can promote an unfavorable balance of bacterial species that may elaborate toxic compounds. Dairy fat is also our richest source of dioxin and other petrochemicals whose consumption is linked to thyroid disease, endometriosis and other medical conditions. Certain fish may have more pollution in it, but since dairy is consumed so much more than fatty fish and shellfish, dairy is the largest contributor to our body's toxic load. In addition, many studies illustrate IGF-1 is a potent stimulus for breast cancer cell proliferation, and that it exerts local growth promoting effects. The higher levels of IGF may also promote the imbalanced immune system response seen in autoimmune diseases. However IGF-1 alone, does not adequately explain the risk; rather it is synergy between more IGF-1, toxic chemicals, estrogen, dairy protein, saturated fat and the industry-related milk additives. Dairy and wheat peptides are simply the most common food allergens and so many people improve their health when reducing or eliminating these foods. Unless you grind your own wheat berries, flour also contains rodent droppings and other sensitizing elements.

You were astute to realize that feeling better does not really mean you are totally well yet, that takes years. After a few years of nutritional excellence, you will be able to tolerate a small degree of toxic exposure without the same (severe) reaction. At that point it can take a few months of dietary abuse rather than a few hours to get yourself ill again. JF
Helpful - 0
745975 tn?1258960922
heh yeah it is all very complex to say the least.

I saw the stuff from Janet Lang that you posted months ago..... VERY interesting. I liked her.

Please let me know as things go along with your friend with Cancer, and how her journey goes sans meat. I hope she does very well! :)


Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Check out the video on the *************website with their son...you shouldn't be putting the carrot in your drink in the morning. ;-)  carrots are starch...not good with fruits and greens :-)

~Amy~
I'm so outta here now lol
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Ok had to respond...geez I'm so behind today! lol


I won't argue...just want to see you be as healthy as you can be...the molecular mimicry with animal protein is explained by two doctors in Fasting and Eating for Health and The China Study.


Most vegetarians don't feel well because they don't mix up and constantly change the greens they are eating.  Victoria covers this in her DVD's..but something happens in the body with oxcylic acid( spelling?)..when you eat the same grees over and over again you get "poisoned" by these acids. You must always be mixing up the greens. She explains it better than i can here...and most vegetarians are not eating a balance of foods. they don't have enough hydrochloric acid in their digestive systems and they are TOO acidic.  Not sure what you were eating at the time, but there is a lot of evidence in what she has to say.  They were raw for about 7 years and then they all ( all 4 of them, her and her husband and two kids) became sick and she couldn't figure out why...did her reasearch on the green leafy vegetables ( and she classifies the vegetables seperate from the GREENS, she said the greens are not vegetables they are greens...she's a Russian woman and extremly funny) and found out about the oxcylic acid. They changed up the greens every week and now they are back to being healthy again. She covers their story in the DVD's..also you can find them at *********com

It's just an option to try...

I won't bring it up again.

It isn't as simple as balancing out the hormones with food..but when we give our bodies what they need ( and figuring out this is the "fun" for each individual, because we are all different) they heal.  This I know to be true.

Check out ************** Dr. Janet Lang has done tons of research and work in the area of balancing out the hormones.  I see one of her co-doctors Dr. Doris Compton in New Haven, Missouri.

A point about Cancer..
In the DVD ( just got this one two weeks ago) Healing Cancer from Inside Out...the doctors on this DVD talk about an enzyme that is produced by the Pancreas.  This enzymes main purpose is to break down the sheath that "hides" the cancer cell from the bodies immune system.  This was to be it's only job.  However...doctors have found that in populations where there is a HIGH intake of animal protein..this enzyme has adapted to breaking down animal protein..and furthermore, what they found was that when the presence of animal protein is in the body it's sole purpose then is to deal with the animal protein and NOT the sheath around the cancer cells.  ALSO with further research they noticed when people stopped eating animal protein...the enzyme MORPHED back to an enzyme that broke down the sheath around the cancer cell so the bodies immune system could once again recognize it.  

This was NEW information for me.  And one I am researching.  I have a friend right now that has a rare pancreatic cancer...and she is going to stop eating animal protein for 6 weeks. We'll see what happens.

Life is a wonderful journey!
~Amy~
Helpful - 0
745975 tn?1258960922
Thanks for the suggestion, but no thanks on eliminating meats. :)  I was vegetarian for a year and a half and I really did not like the way I felt. I enjoy meat too much. As it stands now I don't eat significant amounts of meat. Broccoli does not have "complete proteins" meaning the 8 different amino acids that meats have. I don't want to start an argument about which is better being an omnivore vs not eating meats, because I think there is value in both. But it's not likely that I'm going to go vegetarian again.

I do have green shakes 2 x a day once in the morning for breakfast and once at night. My smoothies have kale, spinach, carrot, banana, water, (mixed fruits depending on the day), papaya, juice and romaine lettuce. (I don't put spirulina algae in there yet like my husband, I have yet to develop a taste for that haha.)

As for what causes hormonal imbalances... I'm sure many many things. As for food? yes i think it can cause hormonal imbalances. Like fats can increase estrogen as one example. I do know that estrogen is also stored in body fats as well.

I was not really referring so much to hormonal imbalances, as much as I believe that hormones are the part of the cause. Hormones are the chemicals/ proteins that tell organs what to do and what to make, so it makes sense that any number of things can go wrong with the message that the hormone sends. It's too complex for me to really understand all of it or to explain it here. There are SO many different hormones that do so many different things in each part of the body and are critical for our proper functioning... it's amazing really.

Also even if Hormones are in balance sometimes diseases grow in response to them. For examples, some cancers are estrogen reactive.

I believe that it is not as simple as balancing out hormones with food. There are too many things that can disrupt hormone production. Hashimotos being a prime example. Or something like Cushings disease where a lesion on the pituitary causes the extra hormones to be sent to the adrenals which increases cortisol production. In addition, there are many things that can go wrong with any hormone producing gland or organ that can cause a hormonal imbalance that diet cannot help.

My point in adding that I thought that hormones had something to do with causing autoimmune disease was that it would certainly explain why women of child bearing age are so much more likely to get certain autoimmune conditions vs. men. The difference between the sexes is the hormones that we produce. Just a thought. It's clearly not the answer to it all, after all my brother and i both have autoimmune diseases and we're different sexes.

Bottom line, I agree with you that hormonal balance is critical and that for most people, good diet is important. One needs to look no further then to insulin and glucagon to see how critical diet is to insuring that everything functions properly. My only point to mentioning hormones in the first place is that hormonal differences and genetics must be at least part of the explanation as to why certain demographics are more likely to have an autoimmune condition.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Hi,
Needed to clarify the statement about people wanting to be sick.

What I meant by that was, in my practice, I have found people, mostly women who have grown up in a "victim" mentality.  Therefore they think "all things are done TO them" ( including illness, mostly as a punishment for something they did wrong) that they have no control over.  They don't know how to NOT be sick..and being sick is easier than getting well, because one has to be empowered to a certain extent to take their health matters into their own hands and become responsible for their lifestyle choices. You see this in the "battered woman syndrome" as well.  It's easier to stay with the batterer than it is to try and take care of herself and children in some instances. CHANGE is NOT EASY for most people.  In fact most people would rather take a pill than change their lifestyle even if it means that they would be well and full of energy and happy.  This is a very SAD fact.  But it is one I find over and over and over again in the classes and workshops I teach. I have found if I can help shift the paradigm that people live with about disease and health I can help them to make lasting changes in thier lives that benefit not only themselves but those around them as well.

I once met a gal in one of my workshops who said it was easier for her to have asthma than it was NOT to have it because someone else was "footing the bill"..and if she "cured" herself of the disease she would no longer have someone else paying for everything, she would have to go to work and be responsible for the bills once again.
In her case it was determined that the kind of work she was doing CAUSED the asthma..so therefore she was able to have someone else ( i guess the company) pay for her living expenses etc. the rest of her life.  She didn't want to get well.  She said "are you crazy? why would I want to be well?"  Absolultley blew me away!! lol

So just wanted to clarify that point.

~Amy~
Now I'm outta here and into town...lol
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
a side note..in the DVD i just finished watching for the 10th time on the Greens from Victoria...her research showed we need to blend the greens to get the most benefit due to the cellulose in the green plants..that cellulose is one of the strongest materials on the planet..so in order to release the nutrients in the GRRENS ( as in your salad) you either need to chew them until they are juice in your mouth..or you can use a Vita Mix blender or something as good to blend the greens to release the nutrients.  her DVD's are packed full of information I wish we could get on the evening news each night...

~Amy~
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Gotta make this point even though I'm short on time this morning.

The whole HORMONAL issue can be corrected by correct diet.

When i say correct diet I mean NO animal protein, organic or not.
I suggest you ( JenB12) try 6 weeks of no animal protein.  Did you know there is more protein in 100 calories of broccoli than there is in 100 calories of steak ( check Dr. Fuhrman's research on this.)  The molecular mimicry that we have been talking about is exactly what happens with a body that is heavy in ANIMAL PROTEIN.  Just get off of it for 6 weeks, you'll see a difference in your health for the better.

ALSO get Victoria Boutenkos movie "Greens Can Heal You"...she covers SO MUCH DOCUMENTED information in her research about green foods..and how they correct SO MANY AILMENTS in the body...it's 2 CD's..and if you dont have the money I'll buy them and send them to you.  That's how convinced I am that the information she has will help your overall health picture.

Let's go back to WHY we have a hormonal imbalance in the first place?
We can assume that "healthy people" have NO hormonal issues.
WHY is that?  because their body is getting what it needs ( through food choices) to do what it needs to do to keep the body balanced.  That's what health means..homeostasis..balance.
How do we become out of balance?
MANY reasons here...and they have to do with BODY..MIND..and SPIRIT...these three areas in our lives need attention to keep the physical body in balance.
So let's, for the sake of time and argument, focus on the physical aspects alone.

How do we become imbalanced hormonally?
Food we eat contains hormones ( maybe not you because of your choices)..
The air we breath
The soil in which the food is grown in
The dairy supply has hormones
The plastic in the water bottles we drink out of
the hair spray we use causes endocrine disruptors
make up can have endocrine distruptors
and the famous GENETIC PREDISPOSITION ( but there thousand of studies that prove that if your diet is health this geneic predisposition need never be expressed..it's not a "death sentence")

So what do we have control over?  we do have control over our food, maybe not so much the air, we have control over where we get our water etc.

So my point is here..IF your health is not where it needs to be and you are doing a lot of the "right" things..you need some fine tuning somewhere.  I suggest you start with no animal protein of any kind of 6 weeks...it won't hurt your health and I believe you'll find HUGE benefits from this 6 weeks of no animal protein.

Back on track..the hormonal thing..is controled by diet...get the diet in order first...clean it up to where you're eating 85% green leafy veg. and you'll see such a change.  The hormones will begin to balance on their own given the right "nutrients"..it's what the bodies does...it's always striving for that homeostasis.  It WANTS to be in balance, but if you're not in balance yet with doing MOST of the right things ( and from reading your posts on this site for the last 6 months, you're doing most of it right in my humble opinion) you just need some fine tuning.

I have seen too many studies from Dr. Fuhrman, Dr. Cousins, Victoria Boutenko and David Wolfe that I don't believe YOU can't still improve your health picture.

The hormonal imbalance is in our control to re-balance.

~Amy~

Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Thought I made it clear they could not determine what I had.  They just gave me asprin and blood pressure medicine and told me it was old age.  Maybe it was some disease they haven't got a name for yet.  Since I had the sympthoms attribute to autoimmune disease I researched the subject and found that the problem which give us these sympthoms is toxins in the body.  Most of this is attributed to mercury.  Boyd Haley has done excellent research showing this.  Why don't you google his name and see what he has to say.  He is not making any money on his research.  In fact, he has a hard time getting money for his research.  Seems the government and drug industry are not interested in his findings.  They have to do much of this research outside the country.  There is no money in making people well.    
Helpful - 0
745975 tn?1258960922
But do you, or did you, ever have a *confirmed* autoimmune disorder?
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Sorry you could not open the video.  Boyd Haley is a professor with the University of Kentucky who has done much research into the fact that mercury is responsible for many of these autoimmune diseases.  The video I listed is a 1 hour lecture he gave concerning his finding which support my position that mercury is the primary cause of these diseases.  You can google his name "Boyd Haley" and find information on his position on this issue if you really are interested.  

We all must look at our own situation and decide for ourselves which drugs if any we are confortable taking.  I am not confortable taking any of them anymore and fortunately my health has recovered to the point I do not need them in my opinion and my opinion is the only one that counts.  My last trip to the emergency room 1 1/2 years ago the doctors couldn't find out what was wrong with me.  I had dizziness and double vision, nausea and high blood pressure.  One of the doctors told me I showed signs of MS in my upper body due to some reflex test he did.  The did MRI's, CAT scans and a variety of test but could not find anythings.  Doctors are not confortable when they can't find out what is wrong with you.  Think they figured it must be a ministroke.  Sent me home and told me to take an aspirin and put me on blood pressure medicine.  I ask my doctor how long I would be on blood pressure medicine and he told me the rest of my life.  Since I have taken care of my amalgam problem and been on a healthy diet I have lost 40 pounds and no longer considered obese using the BMI.  I check my blood pressure everyday and it is around 120/80.  I will be seeing my doctor for a physical next Tuesday.  I no longer take the aspirin or the blood pressure medicine and if he doesen't agree with me that is tough.  He will check the different things in my blood and if he finds a problem I will decide how I want to treat it.  My days of trusting the doctors, dentist and professials that know everything are over.  These professionals are directly responsible for the condition I have experienced and I no longer have any trust in them.  

As with the pharmeceutical company it is all about the money.  They are a business just like any business and if they do not make money you go out of business.  They get their bonuses and salary according to how much money they make and the profit motive is what drives these companies.  The profits are higher in this industry than any other industry.  I could give you links explaining this but you probably would not be able to access them.  The evidence about mercury has been out there for many years but these professionals (doctors and dentist) choose to ignore it.  There is alot of money generated in putting this posion in your mouth and then treating the sympthoms you get.  Boyd Haley refers to these people as criminals.  Think it is a  crime against humanity.  

I know about being sick.  Laying in bed too tired to get up and wishing you could just die.  Dizziness, double vision, bronchitus, nausea, pain in elbows and stomack, dead feeling in fingers and toes, muscle spasms in the back.  Not wanting to do anything but lay around and try to sleep.  Problem is you can't sleep.  Then having your doctor tell you it is just old age and you have to learn to live with it.  Everything is not so simple.  If you do not like what one doctor tells you can see another doctor.  They all have a different opinions.  How do you know which one to listen to?  Maybe it is better to research the information for yourself and make your own decision.  Death doesn't scare me anymore because I have been in a place far worse.    
Helpful - 0
280891 tn?1261013050
This discussion is getting quite large!  It's great to see different people's viewpoints, even if it makes us feel frustrated.  We don't know for sure what causes autoimmune diseases.  It just may be a combo of everything.  I personally don't think food and mercury have  much to do with them, but yes, we should still eat right and avoid heavy metals.  

JenB12, I wish your brother would join the site as well.  I'll keep looking into molecular mimicry and how it may or may not have a role in other AI diseases.  

I'm glad that people on here are very determined!  I guess... if it makes you feel better and believe it's healing you, that is all that counts.  
Helpful - 0
Have an Answer?

You are reading content posted in the Autoimmune Disorders Community

Top Autoimmune Diseases Answerers
1756321 tn?1547095325
Queensland, Australia
Learn About Top Answerers
Didn't find the answer you were looking for?
Ask a question
Popular Resources
A list of national and international resources and hotlines to help connect you to needed health and medical services.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
Condoms are the most effective way to prevent HIV and STDs.
PrEP is used by people with high risk to prevent HIV infection.