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Avatar universal

Strange "Fainting" Episode

I will make this as brief as I can,
My medical history: I have hypothyroidism
I went into a dermatologist a few weeks ago with hair loss. He concluded that my scalp was very inflamed and something was up, he ran tests and my ANA came back positive 1:640. He ran other tests, specifically lupus blood tests, and they came back positive. I do not know the specifics, just that some tests were ESR, dsDna, smith, and a few others.
My symptoms include the hair loss, and then joint pain and fatigue that I had assumed were my thyroid issues. I've also had some strange balance issues and minor chest pain on occasion.

Today I had a strange "fainting" episode. I did not faint. I did not get light headed. I stood up, and was talking with someone for a good two minutes and i started to feel nauseous. The nausea got pretty extreme very quickly and I felt like I was crashing. I don't remember everything I felt, just that it wasn't typical of hypotension. I got extremely hot and sweaty, my hearing fuzzed and I blacked out, but I was still conscious. I dropped to my knees and sat as soon as I felt like I was crashing. The person I was talking to called 911, when they arrived I was better but they said I had high blood pressure and took me in. All the tests they did then, blood pressure, EKG, and some metabolic panel came back normal.Although, my blood pressure was between 120 and 130 the entire time, with the bottom number ranging from 56-77.

They released me not really knowing what happened, but that It probably wasn't related to my undiagnosed "lupus"

Thoughts?
12 Responses
1530171 tn?1448133193
Hi KBrandee.

Lupus diagnosis is complicated and it takes long time to get .

It sounds that your hypothyroidism is not properly regulated, which unfortunately is quite common.
Can you offer some details on your thyroid treatment and latest labs, including lab reference ranges?
Please let me know, as this could be the key to most of your issues!

You must know  by now that hypothyroidism symptoms are over 300
(not a typo!) including hair loss , fatigue, joint pain..

Your near fainting episode could be related to hypoglycemic effects.
When you’re hypothyroid, your cells aren’t very sensitive to glucose,
so even if you may have normal glucose in your blood, you will still have hypoglycemia symptoms. Therefore, you need to 1. make sure your blood sugar levels are optimal, 2. You thyroid function is properly regulated.

When I had been studying Dr Broda Barnes work ( probably one of the top doctors in research and treatment of thyroid dysfunction ever!), one particular finding stayed with me.
From ALL the thousands of patients he treated for hypothyroid (using natural desiccated thyroid ) NONE of these patients developed Lupus!!!

The ones who had been already diagnosed with Lupus,none developed any new signs of organ involvement, while being treated by Dr. Barnes for hypothyroid.

I hope this helps, however, my comment and suggestions are not intended
as a replacement for medical advice.

Looking forward to your reply.

All the best.
Niko
Avatar universal

My thyroid is well monitored, and that was the first thing I checked when my new symptom (hair loss) appeared.

Also, EMTs checked my blood sugar and that was also normal.
Avatar universal
I suppose here are more details on my thyroid and symptoms
5 years ago I started having severe muscle and joint pain, along with fatigue. I was diagnosed with hypothyroid and my first dosage was .25 MG, then raised to .5 after a few months. I go in and get it checked quite often. My symptoms had never really subsided. I just thought it was something I had to deal with and as long as things checked out okay on the inside I was fine.
Lately they've been worsening. My wrist and hip and knee are very painful, I'm so stiff if I sit for a while and have to walk. My scalp hurts and my hair is dry and breaking and falling out. I go through bouts of extreme fatigue.
1530171 tn?1448133193
OK KBrandee, I'm going to attempt to help you, but please try to pay attention to detail.
Very important points:
1. The type of tests you had and  latest labs, including lab reference ranges.
You may have thyroid resistance or type 2 hypothyroidism.
You need Free T3, Free T4 and Reverse T4 for this.
Standard serum thyroid tests (standard practice) TSH, T3 & T4 only indicate serum levels and not cellular function.
2. You probably missed this one:
When you’re hypothyroid, your cells aren’t very sensitive to glucose,
so EVEN if you may have normal glucose in your blood, you will still have hypoglycemia symptoms!

I'm not in any way suggesting that this is indeed the case, however, you must be absolutely certain 100% and thus you need to rule out under-regulated hypothyroidism (likely type 2 or secondary to possible adrenal fatigue). In case it's missed, your life will likely be in perpetual medical limbo.

Cheers.
Niko


Avatar universal
Okay. I have an appointment with a rheumatologist on Thursday, per referral from my dermatologist. I will ask him about this. Thank you for your input.
1530171 tn?1448133193
You're welcome.

fT3/rT3 ratio is probably the most reliable marker for low cellular thyroid function.
Look for a ratio of over 20 for healthy thyroid function. (divide Free T3 by reverse T3, but make sure you are in the same unit measurement for both.)
You can also do on your own Dr. Barnes Basal Temperature test,
to check your thyroid function.
Just do a search and follow the online instructions precisely.

Let me know how it goes.
If you have rt3 (reverse T3) it's tricky to treat.
Also if you have underlying adrenal fatigue, it's even more complicated, as the adrenals down-regulate thyroid function -for adrenal recovery- and any attempts to treat hypothyoid normally is contra-indicated as the patient after initial short-term improvement, gradually goes into more advanced stages of adrenal fatigue.
Effective treatment is extremely dose and type of thyroid med sensitive.

Good luck with your Rheum. appointment on Thursday.

Niko

Avatar universal
Okay, I looked it up. Seems simple enough.
I don't know if it matters about my age, I am 20, and female.

Do you have any opinion on the 1:640 ANA and that I had other positives for lupus?

When I talked again with the person who was with me when it happened, they said that they thought I was having a mini seizure. Is that a possibility?

I get migraines too, not sure if that is relevant at all. Just kind of throwing everything out there!

If I felt that it was just postural hypotension, I would not have let them take me to the hospital. What happened was so strange to me, I've never experienced anything like it.
1530171 tn?1448133193
Well  there's suspicion of Lupus, but do you know what the ANA pattern is?

I'll repeat something probably significant to you from my original reply:

"When I had been studying Dr Broda Barnes work ( probably one of the top doctors in research and treatment of thyroid dysfunction ever!), one particular finding stayed with me.
From ALL the thousands of patients he treated for hypothyroid (using natural desiccated thyroid ) NONE of these patients developed Lupus!!!

The ones who had been already diagnosed with Lupus,none developed any new signs of organ involvement, while being treated by Dr. Barnes for hypothyroid. "

The issue that you may have in the end, if my suspicions are correct,
is that you will need a doctor who is willing to treat you according to Dr.
Barnes teatment methods. There are a couple hundred in the US from what I hear.
If it gets to that, let me know and I can find you some links.
Most conventional doctors do not and it's just too much trouble to try to educate them or convince them.

The issue with all your symptoms could be related (or not) to under-regulated thyroid function.
Postural hypotension would co-relate also with adrenal fatigue.
Migraines are another tough one to explain, but undermethylation is one of the primary and overlooked causes. Why? To my opinion it is considered just too complicated ):
A simple trial of SAMe or Methylocobalamin and Methylfolate (the neurological types of B12 & Folate) would be the easiest way to test.
If feeling better within a few weeks, it is likely undermethylation.

Cheers.
Niko


Avatar universal
Rheumatology basically told me it was lupus, but diagnosed me with lupoid connective tissue disease and autoimmune thyroiditis. Not sure why not just lupus. Prescribed plaquenil. Also said that the fainting spell was lupus related.
1530171 tn?1448133193
I'm not surprised with the oral Lupus dx, but the official lupoid connective tissue connective disease seems to be in lieu of an official SLE (lupus) dx, which is much more copmlicated to establish!
I hope you do not feel ...branded!  Consider that your 2 conditions could be a manifestation of one and the same thing, or at least have the same underlying basis. It's not a necessarily a... medical sentence, even if conventional doctors only offer symptom management treatment.

Fainting would have to do with hypoglycemic effects, more consistent with
hypothyroidism and less with lupus, but if you go by the hypothyroid-lupus connection theory, then it's all interlinked.

Best of luck and if you ever need any information, I'm just a couple clicks away.

Niko
Avatar universal
Maybe he is doing it for insurance sake! Maybe "lupoid connective tissue disease" sounds better to insure than Lupus. Also, I believe that if this treatment helps, it is just another factor indicative of the Lupus.

As far as the fainting, I believe the doctor said it was some cardio syncope. That is some lupus patients get the same exact symptoms when they are just standing, not walking or anything.
Avatar universal
Have you had your heart checked out?
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