Aa
Spine degeneration normal for 20 year old?
Hi, everyone.
My MRI of my lower spine shows degenerated discs at L2/L3 level with a Schmorls node.
I am 20 years old and have suffered this back pain and leg pain/sensations for three years now. I first started having it after I got really ill with some sort of virus at 17. Since then I've never recovered from the bad back and leg problems.
I'm not sure completely why I have it and every doctor I've been to see, including spine specialists don't think there is anything wrong - they say that basically having degenerated discs is normal for a young person!
I would be grateful if you could share any of your experiences if any of you have also been told this as I don't understand why they are dismissing my symptoms and the degenerated discs with the Schmorls node.
My MRI results report clearly states that it is unusual for a person of this young age to have degenerated discs and a Schmorls node.
Thanks in advance for any help or advice you may be able to give.
My MRI of my lower spine shows degenerated discs at L2/L3 level with a Schmorls node.
I am 20 years old and have suffered this back pain and leg pain/sensations for three years now. I first started having it after I got really ill with some sort of virus at 17. Since then I've never recovered from the bad back and leg problems.
I'm not sure completely why I have it and every doctor I've been to see, including spine specialists don't think there is anything wrong - they say that basically having degenerated discs is normal for a young person!
I would be grateful if you could share any of your experiences if any of you have also been told this as I don't understand why they are dismissing my symptoms and the degenerated discs with the Schmorls node.
My MRI results report clearly states that it is unusual for a person of this young age to have degenerated discs and a Schmorls node.
Thanks in advance for any help or advice you may be able to give.
Hi, Selma
It wasn't nice. At least the practice nurse was patient and sympathetic though. That makes quite a bit of difference.
I'm afraid of self cathing because of the fear of the stinging and pressure feeling as it is just so unpleasant. I am also worried I could do damage to myself as I am not trained in cathing. I'd be ok if I was a trained nurse or had done it before. Unfortunately my continence nurse doesn't seem to understand my problem with self cathing and says to just do it and see what happens which scares me at the thought of doing this.
He may order one but he may not. I'd have to get an appointment with him and ask. I totally agree with you - I do have something going on and I still think it's linked to doing those intense physical therapy exercises as I did the one where I had to pull my stomache /lower abdomen inwards like a stomache pump/crunch. It was in the same area as where my bladder is which does seem a bit of a coincidence to me.
I'll see if I can get in to see him and request that I get an up-to-date MRI as I'm due for one now that I have 'new' symptoms.
Once again, many thanks for being there and your support.
I will let you know either by PM or here of any updates on my progress.
Kind regards
Drahn
It wasn't nice. At least the practice nurse was patient and sympathetic though. That makes quite a bit of difference.
I'm afraid of self cathing because of the fear of the stinging and pressure feeling as it is just so unpleasant. I am also worried I could do damage to myself as I am not trained in cathing. I'd be ok if I was a trained nurse or had done it before. Unfortunately my continence nurse doesn't seem to understand my problem with self cathing and says to just do it and see what happens which scares me at the thought of doing this.
He may order one but he may not. I'd have to get an appointment with him and ask. I totally agree with you - I do have something going on and I still think it's linked to doing those intense physical therapy exercises as I did the one where I had to pull my stomache /lower abdomen inwards like a stomache pump/crunch. It was in the same area as where my bladder is which does seem a bit of a coincidence to me.
I'll see if I can get in to see him and request that I get an up-to-date MRI as I'm due for one now that I have 'new' symptoms.
Once again, many thanks for being there and your support.
I will let you know either by PM or here of any updates on my progress.
Kind regards
Drahn
Wow...that really sounded like an unpleasent experience.
I can understand y u would not want to self cath.....
Would ur PCP order the MRI.....It may show something going on down there even if it is not TC, who knows.Bcuz u have something that is not right.
It can't hurt to ask...
Take care and I will look for ur updates....u can also PM me if u like.
Godspeed
"selma"
I can understand y u would not want to self cath.....
Would ur PCP order the MRI.....It may show something going on down there even if it is not TC, who knows.Bcuz u have something that is not right.
It can't hurt to ask...
Take care and I will look for ur updates....u can also PM me if u like.
Godspeed
"selma"
Hi, Selma :)
I don't really have any spine surgeons that care for me anymore. They've all gone. The only person who may be able to refer me for another MRI is my family doctor.
I've had the urodynamics and the ultrasound. Yes you are right the urodynamics is not exactly pleasant. They put three catheters in me. One up the one end and two in my urethra. It stung like hell each time they inserted them. It was also sore for about a week or so afterwards. Though everybody is different as I've noticed that my parts are sensitive anyway. Some people don't find it too bad. This test is said to be pretty standard for testing the function of the bladder.
The ultrasound was done on my pelvis and recorded a post void micturition residual of 140 mls/ccs which is quite a lot.
The specialist said that I had a lazy bladder where it didn't empty fully and that cathing would help to get it to recover it's normal function again.
The practice nurse had a look down there and had a go to put it in and got it in but wasn't sure if it was totally in the right place as no urine drained out but my mom, who was with me heard the catheter make a gurgling/suction noise and I heard a few small drops come out but not that noticeably so maybe she did hit the right spot but just needed to push it in a bit more but because I was distressed with the pain of having it inserted (it stings and feels like pressure) she stopped and has made me another appointment to try again.
In the meantime, I tried mom's method that she told me to do where I sit and have a wee so that I see where it comes from! I did this and can sort of see where it came from (it wasn't from the usual place like on the diagrams - it was lower down, strangely enough in the middle of two other holes!). I will let the practice nurse know where I think it came from and see what happens when she puts it in.
Mom wonders if I actually have two holes! One where it comes out and one that doesn't work as my vagina is slightly lower down.
I can say that self cathing looks to be a painful method of draining the bladder as everytime I had it inserted it stung and I don't think I could bring myself to actually stick it in myself as it is just too uncomfortable. It is ok when it is actually in. It just stings when it is being inserted.
I do wonder if perhaps self cathing is not really suitable for me and perhaps I may need another form of catheterisation. I have heard that the suprapubic ones are the most convenient as they don't hurt once healed over.
Many thanks for your continued support.
I'll keep you updated on what happens.
Kind regards
Drahn
I don't really have any spine surgeons that care for me anymore. They've all gone. The only person who may be able to refer me for another MRI is my family doctor.
I've had the urodynamics and the ultrasound. Yes you are right the urodynamics is not exactly pleasant. They put three catheters in me. One up the one end and two in my urethra. It stung like hell each time they inserted them. It was also sore for about a week or so afterwards. Though everybody is different as I've noticed that my parts are sensitive anyway. Some people don't find it too bad. This test is said to be pretty standard for testing the function of the bladder.
The ultrasound was done on my pelvis and recorded a post void micturition residual of 140 mls/ccs which is quite a lot.
The specialist said that I had a lazy bladder where it didn't empty fully and that cathing would help to get it to recover it's normal function again.
The practice nurse had a look down there and had a go to put it in and got it in but wasn't sure if it was totally in the right place as no urine drained out but my mom, who was with me heard the catheter make a gurgling/suction noise and I heard a few small drops come out but not that noticeably so maybe she did hit the right spot but just needed to push it in a bit more but because I was distressed with the pain of having it inserted (it stings and feels like pressure) she stopped and has made me another appointment to try again.
In the meantime, I tried mom's method that she told me to do where I sit and have a wee so that I see where it comes from! I did this and can sort of see where it came from (it wasn't from the usual place like on the diagrams - it was lower down, strangely enough in the middle of two other holes!). I will let the practice nurse know where I think it came from and see what happens when she puts it in.
Mom wonders if I actually have two holes! One where it comes out and one that doesn't work as my vagina is slightly lower down.
I can say that self cathing looks to be a painful method of draining the bladder as everytime I had it inserted it stung and I don't think I could bring myself to actually stick it in myself as it is just too uncomfortable. It is ok when it is actually in. It just stings when it is being inserted.
I do wonder if perhaps self cathing is not really suitable for me and perhaps I may need another form of catheterisation. I have heard that the suprapubic ones are the most convenient as they don't hurt once healed over.
Many thanks for your continued support.
I'll keep you updated on what happens.
Kind regards
Drahn
I am not sure u need another MRI unless ur dr feels the symptoms changes require one...otherwise ur insurance may not pay for it.
There are other testing done to confirm TC after it is detected inan MRI the 2 tests are
urodynamics and ultrasounds. The urodynamics I have heard is very uncomfortable to have administered...neither of the two have been done for me as yet....I was referredto have a pelvic done and my insurance didnot agree....so I am hopeing the specilaist can convince the insurance of the need.
U r welcome and good luck with the cath!!
"selma"
There are other testing done to confirm TC after it is detected inan MRI the 2 tests are
urodynamics and ultrasounds. The urodynamics I have heard is very uncomfortable to have administered...neither of the two have been done for me as yet....I was referredto have a pelvic done and my insurance didnot agree....so I am hopeing the specilaist can convince the insurance of the need.
U r welcome and good luck with the cath!!
"selma"
Hi, Selma
It is awful just trying to get care. It feels like I'm getting somewhere then I go back to square one. I am finding it very hard to deal with.
Would it be a good idea to get an up-to-date MRI of my lumbar and pelvis area as I had my last MRI of these areas in May last year? I was wondering that because this bladder problem happened after a physio session (bladder problem happened a couple of days after) that I may have done something a little bit more to my spine as I also noticed my sciatica and leg symptoms got worse, including weakness. Also, are there other tests apart from MRI that could diagnose tethered cord?
I do keep a journal/write up of all my symptoms as I tend to sometimes forget the important bits when I end up seeing someone. By doing this I know that I only have to look at the piece of paper and see the things I'd like to ask them.
I thought it was a bit strange that the cath clinic didn't show me physically as that was what I was expecting. I wonder how many people come back to her and say that they cannot do it because she didn't show them physically? I'd bet there are quite a few!
I'll read the poem in the chiari forum now. There has to be good doctors out there, it is just is so difficult to know which ones.
I'm going to be taught how to self cath today this afternoon by the practice nurse and I'll let you know how I get on.
Many thanks for being there and lending a listening ear. I really appreciate it a lot.
Kind regards
Drahn
It is awful just trying to get care. It feels like I'm getting somewhere then I go back to square one. I am finding it very hard to deal with.
Would it be a good idea to get an up-to-date MRI of my lumbar and pelvis area as I had my last MRI of these areas in May last year? I was wondering that because this bladder problem happened after a physio session (bladder problem happened a couple of days after) that I may have done something a little bit more to my spine as I also noticed my sciatica and leg symptoms got worse, including weakness. Also, are there other tests apart from MRI that could diagnose tethered cord?
I do keep a journal/write up of all my symptoms as I tend to sometimes forget the important bits when I end up seeing someone. By doing this I know that I only have to look at the piece of paper and see the things I'd like to ask them.
I thought it was a bit strange that the cath clinic didn't show me physically as that was what I was expecting. I wonder how many people come back to her and say that they cannot do it because she didn't show them physically? I'd bet there are quite a few!
I'll read the poem in the chiari forum now. There has to be good doctors out there, it is just is so difficult to know which ones.
I'm going to be taught how to self cath today this afternoon by the practice nurse and I'll let you know how I get on.
Many thanks for being there and lending a listening ear. I really appreciate it a lot.
Kind regards
Drahn
Hi I am so sorry u r going thru such an ordeal just trying to get care.
It is like that all over unfortunatly. The MRI to dx TC does not need to have contrast.I just know that the symptoms with ur bladder fit so well with that dx it will be a good idea to rule it out.
Keep a journal of all ur symptoms since it will be a while until u r seen, this way u can not forget to tell them about ne of ur issues.
I am shocked that the cath clinic was just text...what r they thinking...do u think u can do it from that instruction?...I do not think I could.
Have u read the poem in the chiari forum?....if not stop by to read it...it gives hope that there r good drs out there...we just have to keep looking.I read it every now and then and it does help me.
Keep me posted
"selma"
It is like that all over unfortunatly. The MRI to dx TC does not need to have contrast.I just know that the symptoms with ur bladder fit so well with that dx it will be a good idea to rule it out.
Keep a journal of all ur symptoms since it will be a while until u r seen, this way u can not forget to tell them about ne of ur issues.
I am shocked that the cath clinic was just text...what r they thinking...do u think u can do it from that instruction?...I do not think I could.
Have u read the poem in the chiari forum?....if not stop by to read it...it gives hope that there r good drs out there...we just have to keep looking.I read it every now and then and it does help me.
Keep me posted
"selma"
Hi, Selma
It's just so frustrating at the moment as I rang the hospital up who are supposed to be putting me onto another of their consultants as my original one left without even telling me and now I rang the hospital up and they said I could be waiting forever because they now have a backlog of 100 or so patients! I demanded to them that they refer me somewhere else for better care but they refused, saying that because I had the MRIs there I have to go there but there is no consultant caring for me now! I'm so sick of this useless hospital. It's a joke. I'm going to be stuck like this forever.
I don't have any idea whether or not I have a tethered cord as no consultant has bothered to care enough to even check that out.
Would a tethered cord show up on a plain MRI or would I need a contrast MRI? I've only had plain ones as my consultant who has now left me for dead only ordered plain ones for some reason. I'd have thought he'd have ordered both just to be on the safe side.
Regarding the cath clinic - they only showed me how to do it by text and pictures not physically so I haven't even started it yet as I got back home not confident in the slightest to do it. I still haven't done it and am at a loss as I'm no clincal doctor or nurse so I don't know why they expect me to know how to do it without showing me physically! It's just getting silly all this health care nonsense that I'm going through. I take one step forward and a hundred backwards!
I just do not trust a single medical person at all now as everytime I've been let down by them.
Many thanks to you and I'll keep you updated.
Kind regards
Drahn
It's just so frustrating at the moment as I rang the hospital up who are supposed to be putting me onto another of their consultants as my original one left without even telling me and now I rang the hospital up and they said I could be waiting forever because they now have a backlog of 100 or so patients! I demanded to them that they refer me somewhere else for better care but they refused, saying that because I had the MRIs there I have to go there but there is no consultant caring for me now! I'm so sick of this useless hospital. It's a joke. I'm going to be stuck like this forever.
I don't have any idea whether or not I have a tethered cord as no consultant has bothered to care enough to even check that out.
Would a tethered cord show up on a plain MRI or would I need a contrast MRI? I've only had plain ones as my consultant who has now left me for dead only ordered plain ones for some reason. I'd have thought he'd have ordered both just to be on the safe side.
Regarding the cath clinic - they only showed me how to do it by text and pictures not physically so I haven't even started it yet as I got back home not confident in the slightest to do it. I still haven't done it and am at a loss as I'm no clincal doctor or nurse so I don't know why they expect me to know how to do it without showing me physically! It's just getting silly all this health care nonsense that I'm going through. I take one step forward and a hundred backwards!
I just do not trust a single medical person at all now as everytime I've been let down by them.
Many thanks to you and I'll keep you updated.
Kind regards
Drahn
Hi...I am sorry to hear ur dr still is not helping u...it can be frustrating.
R u sure u do not have tethered cord?...the bladder issues sound so much like the issues associated with TC...I know u have a schmorl's node, but wonder if u can have both.....
Good luck at the cath clinic...let me know how that goes.
I'll be thinking of u
"selma"
R u sure u do not have tethered cord?...the bladder issues sound so much like the issues associated with TC...I know u have a schmorl's node, but wonder if u can have both.....
Good luck at the cath clinic...let me know how that goes.
I'll be thinking of u
"selma"
Hi, Selma. :)
I think my doctor, because he made a mistake in thinking my spine problem wasn't serious, he is still trying to not commit himself and say that they aren't related when everyone else I've spoken to have said that it's a possibility. There's certainly more people saying it could be related and outnumbering him. I tend to believe other people rather than my own doctor as he seems to be doing a lot of misdiagnosing.
I'm still not better due to doctors and surgeons not really knowing or wanting to investigate further which does worry me.
At the moment I am still waiting to see the spine surgeon. Don't know when that'll be - probably next year!
I've had this awful stomache pain last night - constant winging pain. It kept me awake and I did ask my doctor if he thought it may be connected to my condition but he said it was just due to having so many different antibiotics for these recurring urinary tract infections. He said to not eat anything at all for a whole day!
I am going to a self cathing clinic tomorrow to be taught how to self catheterise to empty my bladder fully as it is apparently lazy and keeps urine in - retention. I hope it won't be too horrible tomorrow as I am quite nervous about it all.
Thanks for your post and I'll keep you updated.
Kind regards
Drahn
I think my doctor, because he made a mistake in thinking my spine problem wasn't serious, he is still trying to not commit himself and say that they aren't related when everyone else I've spoken to have said that it's a possibility. There's certainly more people saying it could be related and outnumbering him. I tend to believe other people rather than my own doctor as he seems to be doing a lot of misdiagnosing.
I'm still not better due to doctors and surgeons not really knowing or wanting to investigate further which does worry me.
At the moment I am still waiting to see the spine surgeon. Don't know when that'll be - probably next year!
I've had this awful stomache pain last night - constant winging pain. It kept me awake and I did ask my doctor if he thought it may be connected to my condition but he said it was just due to having so many different antibiotics for these recurring urinary tract infections. He said to not eat anything at all for a whole day!
I am going to a self cathing clinic tomorrow to be taught how to self catheterise to empty my bladder fully as it is apparently lazy and keeps urine in - retention. I hope it won't be too horrible tomorrow as I am quite nervous about it all.
Thanks for your post and I'll keep you updated.
Kind regards
Drahn
I have had bladder and IBS issues all my life and now that I know I have Tethered cord it explains y I had all those issues along with acid reflux.
I know drs do not seem to believe that the conditions can be related and treat all of the symptoms individually.Poblem is u never get better.
I pray u get answers from the MRI's and u get in sooner than later to see the dr.
Keep me posted
"selma"
I know drs do not seem to believe that the conditions can be related and treat all of the symptoms individually.Poblem is u never get better.
I pray u get answers from the MRI's and u get in sooner than later to see the dr.
Keep me posted
"selma"
Hi, Selma and thanks for your advice. :)
They did a lower lumbar spine MRI last May and have just done an MRI of my head, neck and upper back on beginning of January and I am still waiting for an appointment to get to see the spine surgeon as my original spine surgeon, I think, has left. They now have a huge backlog of patients waiting to be seen and one moment they said I'd get to see a spine consultant in February when I rang on middle of January and now when I rang in February they said it'd probably be March! I've no idea how long truthfully I'll have to wait as you can see they have said it would be in February but it never happened.
These MRIs were all without contrast as was the one of my lower spine.
My family doctor denies that my bladder problem has been suggested to be connected to my spine problem by my consultant urogynaecologist and a member of his team as he thinks it is not in connection but I believe what my consultant urogynaecologist and his colleague said as it does sound possible.
Bare in mid, this family doctor also said at the time that my back was just a pulled muscle or that I was still growing so it was just growing pains! Yet on x-ray and MRI it shows degeneration which I still believe to be the cause of my pain and leg sensations.
I'll keep you updated.
Kind regards
Drahn
They did a lower lumbar spine MRI last May and have just done an MRI of my head, neck and upper back on beginning of January and I am still waiting for an appointment to get to see the spine surgeon as my original spine surgeon, I think, has left. They now have a huge backlog of patients waiting to be seen and one moment they said I'd get to see a spine consultant in February when I rang on middle of January and now when I rang in February they said it'd probably be March! I've no idea how long truthfully I'll have to wait as you can see they have said it would be in February but it never happened.
These MRIs were all without contrast as was the one of my lower spine.
My family doctor denies that my bladder problem has been suggested to be connected to my spine problem by my consultant urogynaecologist and a member of his team as he thinks it is not in connection but I believe what my consultant urogynaecologist and his colleague said as it does sound possible.
Bare in mid, this family doctor also said at the time that my back was just a pulled muscle or that I was still growing so it was just growing pains! Yet on x-ray and MRI it shows degeneration which I still believe to be the cause of my pain and leg sensations.
I'll keep you updated.
Kind regards
Drahn
I also have an issues with Bladder infections and was recently dx'd with tethered cord...which in reading I found it can cause incontinence for the bladder and the bowel....BUT I also found it can cause u to not go as well.....which I believe to be at the root of my IBS and my need to urinate frequently.
If u have not had ur complete spine MRI'd when u do ask them to look for a tethered cord.
Godspeed
"selma"
If u have not had ur complete spine MRI'd when u do ask them to look for a tethered cord.
Godspeed
"selma"
Hi both. :)
I'm not sure whether to start any treatments yet as I've just been told that this bladder problem may be associated with my spine problem. My bladder isn't emptying properly and is always keeping a lot of urine in and never emptying completely resulting in me always going to the toilet a lot and at night. I'm also continually getting infections in my bladder which I am having trouble with as they are so horrible and are making me miserable. I saw a member (not the consultant himself as he left for that day for some reason) of the consultant's team who said he recommends self catheterising as my bladder has gone weak in muscle tone and the pressure is low. I am still waiting now to be seen by a continence nurse due to his letter not being processed - lack of communication which seems so common these days with these so-called medical professionals. I'm actually sick of it and just want my bladder removed and be done with it.
I feel so fed up and health professionals don't seem to have one bit of understanding as they are so fortunate as not to have to go through what we all have to go through.
I'm worried though that if I do anything yet I may cause further damage as they still don't know what is wrong with my spine and say they can't help! I'm considering going to some more fresh consultants who perhaps may know what they are doing.
I feel that my condition has rapidly progressed since I first had it and am hoping I won't go completely incontinent and crippled as I feel it is the doctor's responsibility to help and perhaps show a bit of empathy.
Just a question that has been looming in my head for some time - would my associated bladder problem be a 'red flag' emergency as I've read this and none of my spine docs said anything about the bladder. They just shrugged it off and deffed it out.
I may consider the acuppressure once I know or feel confident on why I have this condition and what it is as it sounds quite successful.
Pablo422, your symptoms sound exactly like mine. I know exactly how you are feeling. I hate pain and I hate not being able to live a 'normal' life because I cannot even sleep due to my bladder. I feel like an elderly lady rather than a young lady. I used to be a very sporty person too but now I just sit around and then go to bed as the pain is very life limiting and is no fun at all. I have heard people take herbal remedies, stretching (generally a physio may be able to help with this as they will be able to advise on the best exercises for your particular condition) and also the injections which many spine surgeons don't tend to offer. They generally tend to always offer physio from what I've experienced which for my particular condition made it worse. Everybody is different - it may make yours better.I would advise on seeing a spine surgeon, just make sure your happy with their opinion as they are all different. Follow your gut instincts as you know your body better than any doc does.
I have also heard and read about a treatment called Prolotherapy where they inject your ligaments with a substance that inflames them temporarely and makes the ligaments much stronger. I am desperate now and would consider this but only once I know what my condition is. I have heard this treatment to be quite successful.
I'd just like to say be careful when stretching as you don't want to cause any more damage. That's why it's probably best to see a physio.
Have you seen a spine consultant? What did they say if you did see one? Did they offer you any treatments or send you away like the ones I saw did?
I'm just not sure if you saw a spine surgeon or not.
At least on here I can say how I am feeling as people understand as they are going through similar things.
Hope this helps.
Kind regards
Drahn
I'm not sure whether to start any treatments yet as I've just been told that this bladder problem may be associated with my spine problem. My bladder isn't emptying properly and is always keeping a lot of urine in and never emptying completely resulting in me always going to the toilet a lot and at night. I'm also continually getting infections in my bladder which I am having trouble with as they are so horrible and are making me miserable. I saw a member (not the consultant himself as he left for that day for some reason) of the consultant's team who said he recommends self catheterising as my bladder has gone weak in muscle tone and the pressure is low. I am still waiting now to be seen by a continence nurse due to his letter not being processed - lack of communication which seems so common these days with these so-called medical professionals. I'm actually sick of it and just want my bladder removed and be done with it.
I feel so fed up and health professionals don't seem to have one bit of understanding as they are so fortunate as not to have to go through what we all have to go through.
I'm worried though that if I do anything yet I may cause further damage as they still don't know what is wrong with my spine and say they can't help! I'm considering going to some more fresh consultants who perhaps may know what they are doing.
I feel that my condition has rapidly progressed since I first had it and am hoping I won't go completely incontinent and crippled as I feel it is the doctor's responsibility to help and perhaps show a bit of empathy.
Just a question that has been looming in my head for some time - would my associated bladder problem be a 'red flag' emergency as I've read this and none of my spine docs said anything about the bladder. They just shrugged it off and deffed it out.
I may consider the acuppressure once I know or feel confident on why I have this condition and what it is as it sounds quite successful.
Pablo422, your symptoms sound exactly like mine. I know exactly how you are feeling. I hate pain and I hate not being able to live a 'normal' life because I cannot even sleep due to my bladder. I feel like an elderly lady rather than a young lady. I used to be a very sporty person too but now I just sit around and then go to bed as the pain is very life limiting and is no fun at all. I have heard people take herbal remedies, stretching (generally a physio may be able to help with this as they will be able to advise on the best exercises for your particular condition) and also the injections which many spine surgeons don't tend to offer. They generally tend to always offer physio from what I've experienced which for my particular condition made it worse. Everybody is different - it may make yours better.I would advise on seeing a spine surgeon, just make sure your happy with their opinion as they are all different. Follow your gut instincts as you know your body better than any doc does.
I have also heard and read about a treatment called Prolotherapy where they inject your ligaments with a substance that inflames them temporarely and makes the ligaments much stronger. I am desperate now and would consider this but only once I know what my condition is. I have heard this treatment to be quite successful.
I'd just like to say be careful when stretching as you don't want to cause any more damage. That's why it's probably best to see a physio.
Have you seen a spine consultant? What did they say if you did see one? Did they offer you any treatments or send you away like the ones I saw did?
I'm just not sure if you saw a spine surgeon or not.
At least on here I can say how I am feeling as people understand as they are going through similar things.
Hope this helps.
Kind regards
Drahn
Hi...sorry I missed ur Happy New year message....right back at u!!! : )
the accupressure is not like a chiro but more like accupuncture except no needles...they apply pressure at the same points they would place the needles.....it can be very helpful in that u can learn to apply it to urself or have a family member do it to cut costs.
There r trained people out there that can do the technique on ur as if going to a accupunturist.I am sure u should be able to get a copy of the book in the UK.
Keep us posted on ur progress!!
"selma"
the accupressure is not like a chiro but more like accupuncture except no needles...they apply pressure at the same points they would place the needles.....it can be very helpful in that u can learn to apply it to urself or have a family member do it to cut costs.
There r trained people out there that can do the technique on ur as if going to a accupunturist.I am sure u should be able to get a copy of the book in the UK.
Keep us posted on ur progress!!
"selma"
I fell snowoarding and fractured my sacrum about a month ago. The sacrum has fully fused and I am feeling better. I had a CT scan in the ER that showed my hairline fracture, no big deal. The CT also showed a pars defect and schmorl's nodes in my L4/L5. My lower back has been progressively getting better I thought up until about a week ago when I woke up and struggled getting out of bed. This was a different pain from the sacral fracture in a different area of my lower back. It radiates to my right hip but does not shoot down the leg. Since then my lower back in the lumbar region has been in severe pain. I can walk, and carry on with daily activities just fine, but going from a sitting position to standing is absolutely horrible. I have a very high pain threshold and it feels like a 9 at least. I have been extremely athletic throughout my 26 years with kickboxing, boxing, soccer, swimming up until my snowboarding fall last month. All of a sudden I feel like an old man gettting up, out of the car, and out of bed. Its only been a month since the fall, I am not pushing it at all, I have been going to the chiropractor for weekly adjusments and massage therapy. I have been taking NSAIDS such as ibruprofren 800mg about 3 x's per day. I have been using ice as much as possible, especially at night when my symptoms are at the worse. I am as frustrated by this stupid pain as anyone on here, trust me. I am trying to get more advice on treatment. Should I be stretching more? Are there any herbals? What about injections? Surgery has always been the last resort in my book, but if that's what it takes to get rid of this pain, so be it. Please someone let me know if there's anything I can do more.
Hi, Selma and VC.
Thanks for both of your posts and advice.
I am considering acupuncture as it is supposed to lessen pain quite a lot. Is accupressure where they push on certain points of the spine or areas? It sounds similar to chiropractor and physiotherapist treatments but I'm not sure. I'll have to look for both these treatments but first I've got to find a practitioner in the UK that does these treatments. I find it strange how my GP never mentioned these alternative treatments even though they are proven to be effective? I told him that I was considering alternative treatments but he said that he wouldn't waste money on them as he didn't think they would work. Though I feel different on that opinion as medicine that the GPs use is not working for me so I decided to look into alternative treatments which is what quite a few patients do when medicine isn't successful for them. I won't know until I try them so it is worth a try.
The only thing I would worry about is that I may get them wrong when practicing them which is what I worry about while doing physiotherapy.
VC, your symptoms sound very similar to mine. I also occasionally get the neck pain which radiates down into my shoulder blades and arms. I have noticed this most when sitting up or lying down in a certain position when watching TV or a film with my family.
I've had mine for 3 years and 9 months now since I was 17 which is a long time for symptoms to continue as usually I've read that if they are going to get better, they improve and dissapear within a couple of weeks to 6 months at the most, though this, I think, is for herniated discs. How long does disc degeneration roughly take to resolve on its own? I didn't think it could as it just continues? Though I'm not entirely sure on disc degeneration as its still a relatively unknown condition and not much is known about it which is possibly why the surgeons I've seen don't know what it is and how to treat it.
The MRI that I had 7 months ago of my lumbar region apparently doesn't show any trapped or compressed nerves of the caudina equina in the lower back but I'm not sure about my other levels, i.e. Cervical and Thoracic as I have just had the MRIs for these levels and am awaiting the results.
Could anything have possibly changed in my lumbar region since I had the MRI 7 months ago before my bladder symptoms appeared? Would it be a good idea to have another MRI of my lumbar region as my bladder symptoms of excessive urinary frequency and not fully emptying when I go to the toilet began after I had that MRI? Would it be possible I could have now had my herniation (Schmorls node) start to protrude onto my nerves affecting the bladder? I'm concerned because although I have this bladder problem my Neurosurgeon and Orthopaedic Surgeon didn't seem bothered or eager to re-do the lumbar region as well? Should I request this MRI of my lumbar region since symptoms have changed and got worse?
On the blood test, my GPs should have done this but they say there is nothing wrong with me and that there is no point testing me for anything as there is no need which I think is not right either. Can I ask a Neurologist which I am going to have to see after the results of my Cervical and Thoracic MRIs results come back to order the calcium test?
1) I avoid lifting altogether if possible knowing that I have the Schmorls node which is a central herniation that has the potential to progress rapidly.
2) I'll have to get some herbal balm. I have found that Voltorol rub on works quite well due to the anti-inflammatory action and painkiller and I prefer it to taking pills.
3) When I sit I get up and walk around every so often so that I don't get too stiff and it keeps my back moving.
4) I've got a set of exercises from my physiotherapist that I do everyday to strengthen my trunk and spine areas.
Thanks for both of your help and advice and I appologise for not being able to get on sooner to reply.
Happy New Year, Selma and VC. :)
Kind regards
Drahn
Thanks for both of your posts and advice.
I am considering acupuncture as it is supposed to lessen pain quite a lot. Is accupressure where they push on certain points of the spine or areas? It sounds similar to chiropractor and physiotherapist treatments but I'm not sure. I'll have to look for both these treatments but first I've got to find a practitioner in the UK that does these treatments. I find it strange how my GP never mentioned these alternative treatments even though they are proven to be effective? I told him that I was considering alternative treatments but he said that he wouldn't waste money on them as he didn't think they would work. Though I feel different on that opinion as medicine that the GPs use is not working for me so I decided to look into alternative treatments which is what quite a few patients do when medicine isn't successful for them. I won't know until I try them so it is worth a try.
The only thing I would worry about is that I may get them wrong when practicing them which is what I worry about while doing physiotherapy.
VC, your symptoms sound very similar to mine. I also occasionally get the neck pain which radiates down into my shoulder blades and arms. I have noticed this most when sitting up or lying down in a certain position when watching TV or a film with my family.
I've had mine for 3 years and 9 months now since I was 17 which is a long time for symptoms to continue as usually I've read that if they are going to get better, they improve and dissapear within a couple of weeks to 6 months at the most, though this, I think, is for herniated discs. How long does disc degeneration roughly take to resolve on its own? I didn't think it could as it just continues? Though I'm not entirely sure on disc degeneration as its still a relatively unknown condition and not much is known about it which is possibly why the surgeons I've seen don't know what it is and how to treat it.
The MRI that I had 7 months ago of my lumbar region apparently doesn't show any trapped or compressed nerves of the caudina equina in the lower back but I'm not sure about my other levels, i.e. Cervical and Thoracic as I have just had the MRIs for these levels and am awaiting the results.
Could anything have possibly changed in my lumbar region since I had the MRI 7 months ago before my bladder symptoms appeared? Would it be a good idea to have another MRI of my lumbar region as my bladder symptoms of excessive urinary frequency and not fully emptying when I go to the toilet began after I had that MRI? Would it be possible I could have now had my herniation (Schmorls node) start to protrude onto my nerves affecting the bladder? I'm concerned because although I have this bladder problem my Neurosurgeon and Orthopaedic Surgeon didn't seem bothered or eager to re-do the lumbar region as well? Should I request this MRI of my lumbar region since symptoms have changed and got worse?
On the blood test, my GPs should have done this but they say there is nothing wrong with me and that there is no point testing me for anything as there is no need which I think is not right either. Can I ask a Neurologist which I am going to have to see after the results of my Cervical and Thoracic MRIs results come back to order the calcium test?
1) I avoid lifting altogether if possible knowing that I have the Schmorls node which is a central herniation that has the potential to progress rapidly.
2) I'll have to get some herbal balm. I have found that Voltorol rub on works quite well due to the anti-inflammatory action and painkiller and I prefer it to taking pills.
3) When I sit I get up and walk around every so often so that I don't get too stiff and it keeps my back moving.
4) I've got a set of exercises from my physiotherapist that I do everyday to strengthen my trunk and spine areas.
Thanks for both of your help and advice and I appologise for not being able to get on sooner to reply.
Happy New Year, Selma and VC. :)
Kind regards
Drahn
Hi
Iam 24 and iam suffering Degenerative disease. I have a disc prolapse at L4-l5 for the past 8 months which is cauing leg and back pain. also since there is disc generation i get radiating neck pain when i get up in the morning.
Disc degeneration gets treated over a period of time by itself. But if u have a prolapsed disc which is touching a nerve you may need surgical intervention.
Take a complete MRI and show also a orthopedic surgeon.
Take a complet blood test to check calcium deficiency
Things u need to avoid doing
1) dont lift weights bending forward (very important)
2) try herbal balm on your back
3) dont sit for more than 30 minutes continuosly
4) do excerises prescribed by a physiotherapist
Bye
VC
Iam 24 and iam suffering Degenerative disease. I have a disc prolapse at L4-l5 for the past 8 months which is cauing leg and back pain. also since there is disc generation i get radiating neck pain when i get up in the morning.
Disc degeneration gets treated over a period of time by itself. But if u have a prolapsed disc which is touching a nerve you may need surgical intervention.
Take a complete MRI and show also a orthopedic surgeon.
Take a complet blood test to check calcium deficiency
Things u need to avoid doing
1) dont lift weights bending forward (very important)
2) try herbal balm on your back
3) dont sit for more than 30 minutes continuosly
4) do excerises prescribed by a physiotherapist
Bye
VC
Happy New year !!!
I can't quite remember if we discussed accupunture.....
it can be costly, but there is a proceedure that works similar except it is accupressure instead of punture....no needles.
There is a book Pain Erasure the Bonnie Prudden Way by Bonnie Prudden.
She developed the techneque.....originally for fibromyalgia, but pain is pain.
This method really works.....and the book teaches u how to pratice this method on urself or a family member...that'll keep costs down....to go to a pro would cost the same as going for accupunture.
"selma"
I can't quite remember if we discussed accupunture.....
it can be costly, but there is a proceedure that works similar except it is accupressure instead of punture....no needles.
There is a book Pain Erasure the Bonnie Prudden Way by Bonnie Prudden.
She developed the techneque.....originally for fibromyalgia, but pain is pain.
This method really works.....and the book teaches u how to pratice this method on urself or a family member...that'll keep costs down....to go to a pro would cost the same as going for accupunture.
"selma"
Hi, Selma and Happy New Year! :)
Thanks for your tip. I've just finished the search and found a bit of info on the Schmorls Node but it generally says there is no treatment, only chiropractice which I am not keen on as I've heard it can make it worse. I tried physio and that made me worse so I know that any form of manipulation will make me worse.
I've heard that all spine surgeons have been trained on the basis of the fact these little nodes do not cause pain but have also read people who are in pain like me who have got Schmorls nodes and are very symptomatic and spine surgeons just dismiss these symptoms because of how they've been educated at med school. They do cause pain if the patient is unlucky. I know there is something causing the pain and if the above levels when scanned don't show anything then maybe it's the Schmorls node? For some reason the spine surgeons just can't seem to be able to work logically and say "You seem to have DDD and Schmorls node at a young age. We'll try and see what we can do for you." rather than saying "Your back looks ok." It just don't make any sense to me. Basically it's 'normal' according to them to have DDD and Schmorls nodes!
By the way, I'm in the UK. Seems a lot of surgeons over here are not quite specialised on Schmorls nodes or DDD. They can't seem to recognise a good back from a bad back!
Thanks for your tip. I've just finished the search and found a bit of info on the Schmorls Node but it generally says there is no treatment, only chiropractice which I am not keen on as I've heard it can make it worse. I tried physio and that made me worse so I know that any form of manipulation will make me worse.
I've heard that all spine surgeons have been trained on the basis of the fact these little nodes do not cause pain but have also read people who are in pain like me who have got Schmorls nodes and are very symptomatic and spine surgeons just dismiss these symptoms because of how they've been educated at med school. They do cause pain if the patient is unlucky. I know there is something causing the pain and if the above levels when scanned don't show anything then maybe it's the Schmorls node? For some reason the spine surgeons just can't seem to be able to work logically and say "You seem to have DDD and Schmorls node at a young age. We'll try and see what we can do for you." rather than saying "Your back looks ok." It just don't make any sense to me. Basically it's 'normal' according to them to have DDD and Schmorls nodes!
By the way, I'm in the UK. Seems a lot of surgeons over here are not quite specialised on Schmorls nodes or DDD. They can't seem to recognise a good back from a bad back!
Just a thought, but did u use the medhelp search on the top right of the screen? U can see all posts regarding the SN.....there may be mention of drs in there u never know.....
worth a try!!
Happy New Years !!
"selma"
worth a try!!
Happy New Years !!
"selma"
Hi, Selma and thank you for your help and support. :)
It seems that quite a lot of patients are getting the wrong or ill advised treatment by doctors and surgeons, particularly to do with spines or the nerve system. Although I have seen a lot of medical misdiagnoses to do with spines, there is this problem with other conditions too.
That's awful how they have ordered the wrong kind of tests and that you have had to have the tests redone. They should, in theory, get it right straight away but many times they just don't. I don't know why. It just seems to be a common problem.
I feel for you as I know there are certainly lots of patients out there still in need of the right tests and the right treatments by the right doctor/surgeon.
Unfortunately I still haven't managed to find a doctor/surgeon who specialises in Schmorls nodes as it is just so hard to find their particular interests on the actual conditions on the internet as it usually just says speciality is spines and that's it but nothing about the Schmorls node.
I have no friends who can help as they, thankfully, haven't needed a spine surgeon.
I don't really know what to do now, apart from guessing who may be suitable which is not a good idea.
I am not sure whether to give up and accept my problem but I am stubborn in nature and am determined not to accept it so I will keep at the doctors to help me and not ignore it.
I've no idea how a patient can have any faith in doctors/surgeons who give up on their patients so easily and just say that they haven't got anything wrong. It's just not medically correct in my eyes.
I'm studying healthcare and hope to improve the current problems but I'm not sure on quite how I'm going to start to tackle it head on. I always want to focus on the patients first and never like letting people down. This is a quality hard to find in doctors and surgeons. They are not the same once they get to the level of what they are.
I hope that you get the best treatment you can and good luck as I too know how hard it is to find the right doctor or surgeon.
Happy New Year for tomorrow! :)
Kind regards
Drahn
It seems that quite a lot of patients are getting the wrong or ill advised treatment by doctors and surgeons, particularly to do with spines or the nerve system. Although I have seen a lot of medical misdiagnoses to do with spines, there is this problem with other conditions too.
That's awful how they have ordered the wrong kind of tests and that you have had to have the tests redone. They should, in theory, get it right straight away but many times they just don't. I don't know why. It just seems to be a common problem.
I feel for you as I know there are certainly lots of patients out there still in need of the right tests and the right treatments by the right doctor/surgeon.
Unfortunately I still haven't managed to find a doctor/surgeon who specialises in Schmorls nodes as it is just so hard to find their particular interests on the actual conditions on the internet as it usually just says speciality is spines and that's it but nothing about the Schmorls node.
I have no friends who can help as they, thankfully, haven't needed a spine surgeon.
I don't really know what to do now, apart from guessing who may be suitable which is not a good idea.
I am not sure whether to give up and accept my problem but I am stubborn in nature and am determined not to accept it so I will keep at the doctors to help me and not ignore it.
I've no idea how a patient can have any faith in doctors/surgeons who give up on their patients so easily and just say that they haven't got anything wrong. It's just not medically correct in my eyes.
I'm studying healthcare and hope to improve the current problems but I'm not sure on quite how I'm going to start to tackle it head on. I always want to focus on the patients first and never like letting people down. This is a quality hard to find in doctors and surgeons. They are not the same once they get to the level of what they are.
I hope that you get the best treatment you can and good luck as I too know how hard it is to find the right doctor or surgeon.
Happy New Year for tomorrow! :)
Kind regards
Drahn
I am so sorry u r getting this treatment...I can relate as this has happened to me as well....it's not just that they can not read the MRI's but by having to have tests redone, I still have an out of pocket expense!!.....My PC ordered xrays insteaad of an MRI !! ooppsss....sigh.....
I pray ur new dr is better informed on ur schmorls node.....and u get the treatment for it u need!!
Have a happy, healthy and Pain Free New Year !!!
"selma"
I pray ur new dr is better informed on ur schmorls node.....and u get the treatment for it u need!!
Have a happy, healthy and Pain Free New Year !!!
"selma"
Hi, Selma.
I have contacted the MRI suite and it's just a plain MRI this NS has ordered, unfortunately.
It's too late now as the appointment has been booked so I don't think I'm going to have any luck in getting contrast.
I think I'm going to go and see another NS instead for a better opinion than my current NS as he just seems to be doing what little is even possible.
I don't think he knows what contrast MRIs even are to be honest.
I don't agree with his opinion as he has totally ignored the Schmorls node and my spine problem and is going onto something else and I don't know why. Maybe it's his excuse for not being educated enough on spines as he doesn't know what a Schmorls node is as he didn't even mention it so he obviously doesn't know how to read an MRI correctly. He's just guessing. I think the radiologist's report is the correct diagnosis.
I am tired of all these so-called doctors that don't know what they are doing. All they are doing is guessing, guessing and more guessing. I just don't understand it. They are wasting my time. I've got better things to do then see these doctors who don't know how to read an MRI!
I'm tired and can't trust a single doctor and never will. They seem to ignore the real cause and pretend that it's nothing.
I hate doctors as they always seem to think they know it all and they don't. Just because they passed those so-called med exams doesn't mean their cleverer than their patients at all.
I actually nearly gave up because of these silly doctors didn't know what they were doing. Though in the end I was determined and still am to teach them that not all patients will listen and agree to their opinions just because they are the doctors sitting in that chair.
I'm now looking to see another NS who is renowned but I certainly don't hold my hopes up on that one!
Thanks for your help and advice and I'll keep you updated on the slow progress, though I feel that no progress is actually being made because of these doctors that don't know what a Schmorls node is or any other thing that could cause 'invisible' pain!
Hope you have a happy and healthy New Year too. :)
Kind regards
Drahn
I have contacted the MRI suite and it's just a plain MRI this NS has ordered, unfortunately.
It's too late now as the appointment has been booked so I don't think I'm going to have any luck in getting contrast.
I think I'm going to go and see another NS instead for a better opinion than my current NS as he just seems to be doing what little is even possible.
I don't think he knows what contrast MRIs even are to be honest.
I don't agree with his opinion as he has totally ignored the Schmorls node and my spine problem and is going onto something else and I don't know why. Maybe it's his excuse for not being educated enough on spines as he doesn't know what a Schmorls node is as he didn't even mention it so he obviously doesn't know how to read an MRI correctly. He's just guessing. I think the radiologist's report is the correct diagnosis.
I am tired of all these so-called doctors that don't know what they are doing. All they are doing is guessing, guessing and more guessing. I just don't understand it. They are wasting my time. I've got better things to do then see these doctors who don't know how to read an MRI!
I'm tired and can't trust a single doctor and never will. They seem to ignore the real cause and pretend that it's nothing.
I hate doctors as they always seem to think they know it all and they don't. Just because they passed those so-called med exams doesn't mean their cleverer than their patients at all.
I actually nearly gave up because of these silly doctors didn't know what they were doing. Though in the end I was determined and still am to teach them that not all patients will listen and agree to their opinions just because they are the doctors sitting in that chair.
I'm now looking to see another NS who is renowned but I certainly don't hold my hopes up on that one!
Thanks for your help and advice and I'll keep you updated on the slow progress, though I feel that no progress is actually being made because of these doctors that don't know what a Schmorls node is or any other thing that could cause 'invisible' pain!
Hope you have a happy and healthy New Year too. :)
Kind regards
Drahn
U r very welcome....as to asking for the contrast....u'll need to ask ur dr to order it ahead of time as it is done(MRI) differently and takes longer to do.
Not all drs take kindly to their patients looking things up on the net and then "telling" the dr how to do their job, but u could ask if he was doing it and if he thought it might show more.....act dumb,,,,the drs do....lol.....
Have a Happy , Healthy and Pain Free New Year!!
"selma"
Not all drs take kindly to their patients looking things up on the net and then "telling" the dr how to do their job, but u could ask if he was doing it and if he thought it might show more.....act dumb,,,,the drs do....lol.....
Have a Happy , Healthy and Pain Free New Year!!
"selma"
Have an Answer?
You are reading content posted in the Back & Neck Community
Find out how beta-blocker eye drops show promising results for acute migraine relief.
Could it be something you ate? Lack of sleep? Here are 11 migraine triggers to look out for.
Find out if PRP therapy right for you.
Tips for preventing one of the most common types of knee injury.
Here are 10 ways to stop headaches before they start.
Tips and moves to ease backaches
