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Avatar universal

Ok so I got to vent for a second , if you are so anti- medication a child with BP this is a must read!



I’m a little confused about some stuff. Some people on this forum leaves post about how we shouldn’t medicate a child who is suffering from BP. Because, they are to young, or because they are so young to be diagnosed with such a label. I want to make a point no matter if our child is BP or not if they have the symptoms of the behavior and the emotional symptoms they needed to be treated.

I’m tired of reading a post about a child showing symptoms or BP and somebody that probably has no idea what a child with BP is capable of to himself or others. Post something about how not to medicate or whatever pops in there headfirst.  Bp kids go through so much especially when they are stressed or having a mood change from their highs to lows.

And if it’s the parents on here posting that you should use medication to medicate our BP kid. If you haven’t had to place your child on medication before to help with his moods, sleep, or aggression. I wonder if you are really dealing with a BP child or a child that has ODD. (Optional Defiant disorder).  

And if you’re a person, parent, or just someone that like to but there two cents worth of thought out there.. I want you to think about something if you had a child suffering with cancer, or a child that has been diagnosed with diabetic. Would you medicate your child or would you just wait to see how much sicker your child will get?

  
My thoughts are :I have a son that is being treated for BP. We have tried many therapies, music, play therapy, and even role model therapy. When nothing else works you have to look at medications.  We have tried many medications on my son but have only fount one that helps with his moods, and his seizures and one that has helped him out with sleep. I would have to say if I didn’t medicate him somewhat not dope him up just enough to take the edge off of some of the behaviors, he might really hurt someone or himself.

*** AND for all the parents that understand what I’m saying please remember to keep your heads up we all are doing what we know and what we feel like we need to keep our children, teens, and all of all Bp kids and other family members safe.*******
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952564 tn?1268368647
Character.... life builds character. People with cancer and diabetes aren't told "go without your meds, it will build character." Oh no, you see those kids on the t.v. with no hair and being told how brave and strong they are. What about the kids with schizophrenia, bipolar, and ADHD who struggle every day? This goes right back down to the truth. People do no believe that illnesses of the mind are real. They do not realize the havoc they wreak on our lives. They do not realize the majority of the homeless population have illnesses, and all these "lazy" kids as they put it, could very easily end up there. They do no realize we are facing death daily by the force of our minds. Look at that young man who jumped off the Empire State Building the other day. How many people did he ask for help who dismissed him? I wonder. I really do. How many people told him he was just looking for attention. I don't even know if he had an illness diagnosed, but who else does something like that? He was one of us, I'm sure. And now he's gone. I'm sure he had a lot of character, though. >.<

If only the world cared about helping each other instead of putting people down for being ill.
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Avatar universal
Well the second paragraph is the life i would want if i was given a choice and believed  that would be the outcome. So when you think about it , it's understandable for people with lack of interest and knowledge to shy away from the med route because some people just do not believe it works. Or they are in denial, or because of the lack of education they are afraid to admitt something is just not right because then people will think ther child is retarded or something . I dont know , i cannot for the life of me figure out the mind set because those children who are not given the help suffer horribly. I see it too often. Want to know what someone said to me? Your child will develop more character and be a stronger person the more they have to struggle. They said "so what ,he has to try harder than some other kids." "it's not gonna kill him", "thats the prob these days ,they are catered to by teachers and the school systemtoday." "Thats why they are so lazy". I get so angry every time the subject comes up because they are not helping their child, they are harming their child. It's so heart breaking.
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Avatar universal
Ah ha, you almost wrote the premise of my life in regards to work and school, aside from a few details being different, in the first example.  Another negative result of the first story is that child would also have to come to terms with side effects eventually if they started a medicine.

Your last sentence, "We do the best with what we're given. We make the best choices we can. " is kind of like something I said where I said "Life is what you make it" is an incomplete quote and should say "Life is what you make it out of sets of choices you're given."
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952564 tn?1268368647
I think it comes down to this....

One child was unable to function and dropped out of high school. Was unable to get or hold a job for more than a few months. Was blamed for everything that went wrong in life and could never figure out why life just didn't work. Lived in poverty and went hungry a lot, always feeling like a failure and alone, working dead end jobs despite obvious intelligence. Once diagnosis happened, it was too late to really help.

Another child had the same problems but was given medicine, finished school, got a good job, had a stable life and succeeded by societies standards. But, eventually had to come to terms with side effects. But due to the good job this child could afford the necessary medical care.

Who wins?

We do the best with what we're given. We make the best choices we can.
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Avatar universal
Thank you so much !! finally someone said what i wanted to hear , and needed to here. You are the first one that has made me feel better about this. Believe me , i will always be uncompfortable with the decision, just as you are. But thank you and good luck to you!! Just in case you didn't see my very first post ( anyone have experience with buspar with 5yr old child ), this is what my post is all about, he attends a special school for behavior isssues in childre between ages 4 to 6yrs old. they even have a psychiatrist affiliated with the school and he will prescribe meds if evryone as a team agrees to just try it. He has been going for two yrs now and has made great improvement but still continues to struggle with what they think is pure anxiety. I myself agree with them but sometimes wonder if it is ADHD. They dont believe he has ADHD. From my personal experience and also knowing other people that have ADHD, also suffer from anxiety. So its hard to say.
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1255530 tn?1269867619
I agree with you 100% I have a son with ADHD. Its a struggle for any parent who cares about there children to finally come to a conclusion that you may have to medicate your child. Its a tough decision but when it comes to the point where you spend 4 hours doing homework with your child and he has only done a half page of homework and is likely to fail  the first grade for a second time and no matter what you try nothing works you come to the realization that may be the only hope! If you don't  know what someone is facing you shouldn't judge them! My son have improved so much that with in a month of medication he will be passing the first grade. He is highly intelligent but cant focus on anything for more than 2 mins. It is the best thing for my child. He also no longer says in trouble. I'm thankful for the medication and I still question are decision but I want the best for my son and if he cant function in life thats not giving him the best start. No one wants to put there kids on medication but sometimes it really is the best thing. I now have time for all 4 of my kids and life is smooth and functional now for the whole family. Keep doing what you know is best for your children. I have my son on just a low anof dose to work but not overly work. I see no signs of being a zombie or any other side affects. Ritalin is no longer prescribed as much as it used to be. There is a lot of research and new and better non addictive meds for children, including drugs that are not stimulants. I know this doesn't fully go with bipolar  children but as my husband and I both bipolar thats a 50 - 75 % chance of my kids getting it and I have 4 kids. So it hits close to home. I started experiencing bipolar as young as 7 that I can remember and have struggled with it my whole life. I'm almost 29 and just been diagnosed. I plan on having my son reevaluated to rule out bipolar although I see no signs yet but know they may develop later on. I want my children to be functional and have healthy lives. I never had the opportunity because I didn't know what was normal and tried my very best to fit in. I suffer from extreme anxiety from social situations so have hid my illness well. There had been many times I felt like I needed to check  into a mental hospitable because I thought I was going crazy and very suicidal  and I never want my children to have to feel like I have in the past. Good luck to all you parents dealing with this and I know everyone does what they think is best for there kids. I believe most parents try counseling before they try medications. And dealing with child psychiatrists I never felt like they tried to just put drugs on my child we have had therapy and decisions on whats the best plan of action with of course his recommendations. God luck to all of you with children of bipolar!
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Avatar universal
I AGREE WITH YOU!!!  iM SORRY IF I CAME OFF SO ANGRY, Its just very hard for us at  this time in our lives. I am referring to my daughter and I ,its  my grandson that we are trying the buspar on. And its very difficult for us knowing that we are the ones responsible for putting the poisen in his body. Or should i say a forien substance? But like others have said, we tried everything and it was obvious he was nervous from infancy. This is not new behaviour. His behaviour is not the norm. the hyper activity is tripple the norm. But maybe i shouldn't share because allot of the comments do make me angry. We are not pill happy. We hate this. Its  an awful feeling.
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Avatar universal
As someone who had mental illness that causes psychosis as a kid that can only be treated through the use of antipsychotics and the new line of drugs in FDA study with ILADVOCATE, I tend to agree with ILADVOCATE's opinion and facts on this.  While I think a kid should be treated with medicine who has psychosis and/or mood episodes that are affecting their functioning (I for example did horrible in school partly due to mental illness and I am pretty sure I would of done better had I received some form of treatment) I also believe people should be extremely careful and only use this as a last resort.  As ILADVOCATE said, antipsychotics can eventually cause tardive dyskinesia or diabetes which aren't exactly the best things in the world a kid should have to worry about developing, let alone adults or the parents, but that's just the reality of the situation until the FDA passes these new antipsychotics.  Children are also going to be rambunctious sometimes because they're young which I think is normal so they shouldn't be medicated just because they act out sometimes but rather if they have symptoms which interfere with their life.
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585414 tn?1288941302
Yes I agree and although this is an older thread you can see that my original post with its length and inflationatory affect shows some signs of grandiosity and an inability to focus which is an aspect of mania of course. There is a reason for this which is because I was off a mood stabilizer at the time (not by choice but because they couldn't find anything that I could tolerate at the time). Now that I am on a mood stabilizer, one of which is Catapres (which has somewhat of an effect in that area) and an anti-convulsant (which they are studying for my physical disability and which they are also noting has strong mood stabilization effects) I can concentrate and think more coherently and this ability does carry over into the outside world. One of the essential goals of recovery is self awareness which I completely lacked before treatment (which I started on my own choice) as I have schizoaffective and which without a mood stabilizer is strongly lacking. Its essential people see treatment as there to help them not control them but to allow them to regain the sense of self control they need and will benefit them as well.
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Avatar universal
The one thing that really gets me is when people make comments about parents wanting to zombify their child. Who in their right mind would want to do that? Who ever does that is not a very good parent and the doctor they are seeing must be a real dumb a...  if you are going to put your child on meds, which by the way i do believe in , if neccasary, you got to gain the knowledge and do it right. the goal is to make your child a normal functioning person in soiciety. we are trying to help our children by doing whatever it takes to make them feel as normal as they possibly can . not trying to drug them. whoever is doing that needs serious help themselves and shouldnt even be allowed to care for their children.
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Avatar universal
Well, here's my 2 cents, from someone who began displaying symptoms of bipolar when I was still in pre-school.

I am glad as hell that my parents never medicated me. Seriously. I owe them so much for that.

Yeah, I struggled and I didn't always get everything right. But my parents didn't think that putting their 4-year-old daughter on highly toxic medications for an unreliable diagnosis was any way to make me feel better. And they were totally right.

I was initially diagnosed as ADHD. That was a common mistake back then - this was 15 years ago. I was diagnosed with that, later depression, later anxiety and paranoia, and finally bipolar. But it doesn't matter what the diagnosis was, wrong or right. The fact was that I was a highly intelligent child, and that the drugs they wanted to put me on could permanently damage my body and mind.

At the end of the day, my father (who mostly raised me) made the judgment call. He could either drug me until I was too numb to be disruptive, or he could dedicate all of his time and energy to making me understand myself and giving me a chance to live productively with my mental health issues. He chose the latter, and I think him every damn day for it. I am so much stronger because of what he did.

Ultimately, not every child (or adult) could handle the way I did it. I'm not saying medication is wrong. I'm just saying that every person is unique, and you can't say that what's good for one is good for another. In my case, my symptoms appeared when I was very young, but they progressed slowly. It wasn't until my teens that they started getting out of hand, and by then I was old enough to dictate how I wanted to deal with it. I grew up understanding that I was different, and that I had a very big personality that I had to be careful with. But my dad also made sure I knew that I am intelligent enough to know the right thing to do - even if "the right thing to do" is to ask someone else what I should do if I don't feel sane enough to decide myself.
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607502 tn?1288247540
Also if I may say when youre about to post a thread saying " I need to vent" which involves making comments on other peoples opinions its a good idea to take a deep breath before posting.

This community thrives and exists because it welcomes everyones opinions and comments openly - this is a place where people post their darkest days and ask for help, where people talk about their feelings, symptoms and even suicidal feelings.

In order for that to work we must try always to respect other people and their opinions and feelings as much as possible - that people will disagree with others is a given however when that moves into the real of personal attacks, insults and abuse it crosses a line which saddens me and I am sure others here.

People have a right to express a valid opinion and valid concerns on subjects - in fact we often ask other posters here to do that when commenting on medications and treatments - none of us are doctors we are all just suffering from the same illness here.

Everyone has a right to express a valid opinion here without fear of being attacked by other people who do not agree with them and if that changes then this community is dead and a lot of people will simply stop posting here.  Not something I want to see here and it should not be behaviour we accept.

Apologies if this sounds offensive or trite - Its not meant to be I am just saddened to see some of the behaviour in this thread from new members to our community when I returned from a break - There are members here who have helped me through some of the darkest days of my recent life and who I care deeply about and Id hate to see this community descend into the abuse and agression some of the other communities on here are.
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607502 tn?1288247540
As one of the people who would fall squarely into the camp of not believing in medication for children as young as three for bipolar I guess your comment might be aimed at me somewhat.

However you may take it my opinion is simply an opinion - nothing more and nothing less and I really feel deeply dissapointed in some of the vitriol being sprayed by some people here to people who might disagree with this course of action.  Sad to see frankly and calling people who disagree aholes is simply silly.

The reality is that each and every person here who is bipolar was a bipolar child - you do not contract the disease it is something you are born with.  What some of the posters here have just described may be behaviour we displayed.  Equally it may be behaviour normal kids displayed and that is the problem.

Once diagnosis is made the medications start.  Im sure everyone here has read the side effects of the medication they take every day and knows them by heart, imagine those in a small child.  I have no idea how you would be able to tell a 3 year old that lithium shakes are normal or that the AD they are on makes them go crazy not to mention the major serious side effects.

BTW 12 is not a small child - Bipolar in 10-12 year olds is not rare - my problem is with children under 5 and only that and its not just BP Drugs.

The reality is I dont like small kids taking drugs and its because of the side effects they have, their inability to communicate and the medical communities complete lack of any morality when it comes to drugs - Look at Ritalin which is prescribed to small children all the time.  Does the doctor ever tell parents that its linked to heart attacks in kids?  Or that it has some nasty side effects?  Ritalin is possibly the most over prescribed drug around for kids and it is given out like candy and yet most parents know nothing about the drug and its potential risks.

My position is basically If you are going to give your child a drug of any type KNOW what it can do and what the side effects are intitally and in every phase of treatment.

However.  While I do not agree with drugs for kids it is each and every parents decision and I can well sympathise with those parents  - you are in a tough place and having a sick child is hell - I was one of these kids and my parents went through hell trying to get me help so I do understand - I also took drugs  from the age of 5 until 19 so ive been there myself and of course I take drugs now.  

I dont judge people - and the only thing I will say is that before you put your child on drugs you seek a second opinion and make sure that the diagnosis is right and know ALL of the potential side effects - you must be an informed parent just as those of us with bipolar must be informed patients - other than that I will support anyone in getting the best possible care for themselves and others no matter what.

That is my opinon. As for people who choose to insult or belittle other peoples opinions perhaps its time to start thinking about people as individuals.  
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Avatar universal
I started having symptoms of BP at age 7, my childhood was horrible, which is an understatement.  I saw a pdoc when I was 9,  they refused to medicate me correctly, the pdoc just put me on a trycyclic desipramine,  so please if you have a child that has BP, you are not only helping with behaviours, but the child's suffering.
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585414 tn?1288941302
Instead of venting let's discuss this in a factual manner. I have to live with (and I prefer that terminology "suffer from" indicates self pity though with the amount of pain and spasms I have other people might feel this way) advanced tardive dyskinesia. The rate of acquiring tardive dyskinesia to quote my psychopharmocologist is "for the typical antipsychotics 5% per person per year and for the atypical antipsychotics 2.5% per year" and "everyone eventually gets tardive dyskinesia. It depends how bad it is". That's not anti-psychiatry information. You can find that on prescription labels. Same with the rate of acquiring diabetes. There is a higher rate of diabetes among atypical antipsychotics and now that they are being used as mood stabilizers more children are developing diabetes. My concern of course is not children with bipolar taking medication but the fact that anti-psychotics are used as mood stabilizers though in the case of bipolar with psychotic features its warranted. I am gravely concerned when children with autism, which is a developmental disability, not a mental illness are given antipsychotics as "behavioral management". It can't help them recover but just stops acting out episodes and constructive (as long as its not aversive) behavioral psychology is warranted in my opinion to stop this unless of course the child has a psychiatric disorder as well. But I needed antipsychotics all these years as someone with schizoaffective disorder to recover. But if they had been more carefully monitored I wouldn't have developed tardive dyskinesia this advanced and what they are identifying as tardive psychosis (being treated with Zofran). But I am in no manner "anti-psychiatry". As I've put in posts I'm on glycine a glutamate antagonist, a new form of anti-psychotic in Phase II FDA study that won't create tardive dyskinesia or diabetes and promotes a fuller recovery. My psychopharmocologist will be publishing the case study soon in a psychiatric journal. He has approved a form letter that I am allowed to send to providers. I can't print my psychopharmocologist's name but I can say that I recieved a letter with positive feedback from the known psychiatrist E. Fuller Torrey. And I sent a letter to Peter Breggin and I'm not sure if he'll respond but perhaps he is not aware that there are anti-psychotics that don't cause (what my psychopharmocologist says is the correct term) synaptic brain damage. Every medication has its concern (for example a child that was a son of a friend of the family developed tardive tourreticism from Ritalin) and some children with mild adhd could do without medication but if a child has mood swings and other symptoms congruent with bipolar I can see a mood stabilizer is warranted. But I'd rather it not be an anti-psychotic as mood stabilizers do not cause tardive dyskinesia and Lamictal is not problematical for diabetes or weight gain. But sometimes there is clear need for an anti-psychotic. But rather than be against anything I'm advocating to have the new anti-psychotics fast tracked so everyone can have the mental recovery I did without the neurological disability. And in Phase II FDA studies the glutamate antagonists are showing favorable results on children as well. So if people have concerns either way why not advocate to get these medications out and that includes for children.
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539694 tn?1434565947
I agree with you children should be given medication if it helps. However, in very young children my personal opinion is still that their body's are not up to it. When bipolar or schizophrenia manifests itself in a child at the age of 5 no doctor in the whole world will diagnose that child as such because they do not believe it is possible. It is very possible it is just rare.
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Avatar universal
You obviously have no idea anything about bipolar disorder and raising a child with it.  I pray you never have to experience it.  I feel sorry for the child if you do.
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Avatar universal
Thank You!!!  I have 2 sons with bipolar disorder.  My 12 year old is in the hospital right now.  It is the first time that he has been in.  My older son (step-son) was in when he was 12.  It can be so hard to know what to do.  I am divorced and the ex doesn't believe in medicating his son.  He is threatening now to take me to court to get custody because I put him in the hospital and I give him meds.  Personally, I think meds are a lot better than death, jail, or anything else that may happen with an untreated bipolar child.  I am so thankful for meds.  The oldest son is turning 18 this month and most people don't even know that he has the disorder because of the meds.  It is amazing.

To those parents who don't think that they should medicated their children, I wish you luck and my prayer is that you don't have a major regret later.

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209384 tn?1231168306
DLA
No, it is one of the symptoms of BP disorder.  Some people think that they know famous people or that they are a part of something they are not, CIA or PTA, and some people think they have horrible medical problems.  Guess I could see where you'd think that but it is part of the BP problems.  Didn't even know that this was one until my dx at age 25 and when it came up I finally understood it.  Understanding does not make it easier to live with.

And hypochondria is an attempt at attention.  Not usually an actual belief that you have something, wanting to have something is more like it.  My grandmother had it very badly, know all about it.
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Avatar universal
Without knowing the rest of your background, it sounds like you were a hyponchondriac (not quite delusional but an anxietybased disorder nonetheless).
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209384 tn?1231168306
DLA
As an adult who was a child with BP and ADD I say do whatever you need to do to make your child's life better.  I had a horrible child hood suffering from BP!  Not only the things I thought about myself, which were horrid, but the things I did!  I have to live with them now and know that the people I grew up with probably remember these and there is nothing I can do to change this.  

My parents never did anything for me, but considered me sullen and an imbarrassment.  I was always being told to snap out of the depressions there was no reason for me to be that way, or to quit embarrassing our family with my mania phases.

Don't know if I mentioned it before or not, but I had a problem with the "grandiose delusion".  I would tell people things like I had cancer (I was about 12) and I firmly believed it and that I was dying!  Horrible!  

You are doing the very best thing you can for your child!  

Dac
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292592 tn?1234139424
I agree, and thanks for posting. I thinks so many people need to read that ( my family included) Some people have no idea what it's like like living with a child like this every single day. No one wants to babysit my kids ever, so why do they expect me to have to deal with this 100% no help? Some times it gets to the point of needing help with medication, other wise your child could hurt himself or others! Thanks!!!!!!!!!
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Avatar universal
As an ADD and Bipolar I diagnosed 21 year-old male, I have been back and forth when it comes to medication.  For parents of ADD children, I really suggest trying counseling and structure before going on a med cycle, but if it does not help then there is nothing wrong with medicines (although it breaks my heart when I see these bright and exuberant children zombified with drugs).

However, when it comes to bipolar disorder, the consequences of non-treatment moves from poor grades and time-outs to serious problems like suicide, hopelessness, and in my case--a feeling of complete detachment.

PARENTS WITH BIPOLAR CHILDREN:  Do not treat the idea of medicating your bipolar child the same as medicating a child with ADD or another milder behavioral disorder, they are not comparable!
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Avatar universal
Thanks so much. i get so tired of people posting saying that we shouldn't medicate our children. when they have no idea of what life is truly like with dealing with a child or a loved one suffering from BP disorder......

                    Rozanna
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