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11 month old with bouts diarrhea
Hi everyone! I find myself back at this board with a mystery cat..
Opus, Jade, others, you know I took in Spook, he was about 5 1/2 months old on Halloween.
The problem is sporadic bouts of diarrhea..
I had this problem exactly 10 days of taking him in.
It took close to a month with two rounds of Flagyl and using fortiflora to get rid of the diarrhea.
Now, after going back to the vet to get checked over for scratching with no apparent cause, getting his nails clipped, he developed diarrhea which took once again, two rounds of Flagyl and he remained on the fortiflora. At this time I decided after he developed diarrhea again and still is scratching around his face and side of neck , that perhaps we are looking at a food intolerance
The stools became normal again and remained that way for 10 days
He has had 3 fecal checks, all negative for parasites, Giardia, etc..
I very SLOWLY changed him over to Natural Balance Duck & Pea, a hypo allergenic cat food (dry, he simply won't eat much canned)did this when he developed diarrhea for the 3rd time..He has been solely on the Natural Balance now for two days.(March 29-30)
After the ten days ((March 27th) he has developed diarrhea again..Now the only thing that happened on that date of March 27th is that I bought a can of Merrick Before Grain in Chicken & Quail, but he only nibbled at it like most all the others that I have ever given him.(I did find that it contained EGGS).
However, he has this habit of ripping up paper with his teeth, cardboard boxes..He does not eat the material but spits it out and I find pieces laying next to the box or sack that he targets.
I found him in my closet in a gift bag, chewing it apart..spitting out the pieces.
I have taken every cardboard box and have disposed of them(he likes playing in boxes along with chewing them up).I threw the gift bag away also.
I have researched and found that some food intolerances for cats are EGGS, FISH, Chicken, BEEF, GRAINS.
The Natural Balance Duck does not have grains, no eggs, no chicken, no beef, no fish...
I am hoping that this might be an allergy of sorts(or food intolerance) to a specific food that has been in his past cat food and not something like IBD...
IBD is not one that is simple to DX since it takes a biopsy and I don't really want to put him through that..
Allergies?? Well with the scratching, with apparently no known cause (no fleas, vet said his skin was not dry) and the diarrhea, I really want to give this food at least 6 more weeks to see if it makes a difference..
I could take him in for allergy testing, at least that would be a place to start to rule out some allergies..
He acts just fine, growing like crazy, no vomiting,weighs 11 pounds..
The strange thing is when the diarrhea starts up he drives me crazy day and night wanting me to take him outside, which makes no sense because he doesn't want to go outside to graze on grass or defecate but only to sit out there and observe the birds in the daytime and at night just sit on the front porch with me..
I have a harness for him and a leash so he never goes out unattended.....
Any suggestions here or input would be greatly appreciated..
BTW, this is the third day of diarrhea and he is still on the fortiflora and his stools are not watery yet, just really lacking form and he will go anywhere from 3-6 times a day...
I am calling the vet , she said if it got bad again, did not clear up with the fortiflora to call her.
Vet is leaning toward a possibility of a food intolerance or IBD..
Opus, Jade, others, you know I took in Spook, he was about 5 1/2 months old on Halloween.
The problem is sporadic bouts of diarrhea..
I had this problem exactly 10 days of taking him in.
It took close to a month with two rounds of Flagyl and using fortiflora to get rid of the diarrhea.
Now, after going back to the vet to get checked over for scratching with no apparent cause, getting his nails clipped, he developed diarrhea which took once again, two rounds of Flagyl and he remained on the fortiflora. At this time I decided after he developed diarrhea again and still is scratching around his face and side of neck , that perhaps we are looking at a food intolerance
The stools became normal again and remained that way for 10 days
He has had 3 fecal checks, all negative for parasites, Giardia, etc..
I very SLOWLY changed him over to Natural Balance Duck & Pea, a hypo allergenic cat food (dry, he simply won't eat much canned)did this when he developed diarrhea for the 3rd time..He has been solely on the Natural Balance now for two days.(March 29-30)
After the ten days ((March 27th) he has developed diarrhea again..Now the only thing that happened on that date of March 27th is that I bought a can of Merrick Before Grain in Chicken & Quail, but he only nibbled at it like most all the others that I have ever given him.(I did find that it contained EGGS).
However, he has this habit of ripping up paper with his teeth, cardboard boxes..He does not eat the material but spits it out and I find pieces laying next to the box or sack that he targets.
I found him in my closet in a gift bag, chewing it apart..spitting out the pieces.
I have taken every cardboard box and have disposed of them(he likes playing in boxes along with chewing them up).I threw the gift bag away also.
I have researched and found that some food intolerances for cats are EGGS, FISH, Chicken, BEEF, GRAINS.
The Natural Balance Duck does not have grains, no eggs, no chicken, no beef, no fish...
I am hoping that this might be an allergy of sorts(or food intolerance) to a specific food that has been in his past cat food and not something like IBD...
IBD is not one that is simple to DX since it takes a biopsy and I don't really want to put him through that..
Allergies?? Well with the scratching, with apparently no known cause (no fleas, vet said his skin was not dry) and the diarrhea, I really want to give this food at least 6 more weeks to see if it makes a difference..
I could take him in for allergy testing, at least that would be a place to start to rule out some allergies..
He acts just fine, growing like crazy, no vomiting,weighs 11 pounds..
The strange thing is when the diarrhea starts up he drives me crazy day and night wanting me to take him outside, which makes no sense because he doesn't want to go outside to graze on grass or defecate but only to sit out there and observe the birds in the daytime and at night just sit on the front porch with me..
I have a harness for him and a leash so he never goes out unattended.....
Any suggestions here or input would be greatly appreciated..
BTW, this is the third day of diarrhea and he is still on the fortiflora and his stools are not watery yet, just really lacking form and he will go anywhere from 3-6 times a day...
I am calling the vet , she said if it got bad again, did not clear up with the fortiflora to call her.
Vet is leaning toward a possibility of a food intolerance or IBD..
Your cat has Clostridium difficile. It is caused by your dumb vet giving him clindamycin. Clindamycin is a popular antibiotic that WILL cause clindamycin in both human and animal. Read your drug label and stay away from it. Flagyl (Metronidazole) is the first line drug for Clostridium difficile mainly because it's cheap. It costs $5-8 for human dosage, vet usually overcharge, so it's probably 10 times more. Your best bet is Vancomycin. It's $300 a course for human dosage, not sure if vet has it. Don't waste your money on hypoallergenic food. They are vet's scam to get you to buy food from them for commission. They are all the same. Stay away from chicken though, not because your cat is allergic to chicken, but because the chicken has been genetically alter to be non-chicken.
Starting on day 5 (fingers crossed) and normal stool! I have also noticed his stools do not smell to high heaven!! The LID in can, (duck & Pea) has also agreed with him, it does have Salmon oil that the dry does not..
yes! In the midst of Spook and his diarrhea I forgot to mention Boo..He is about 10 1/2 months old, was my stepson's but he came here to stay briefly and, well, he's mine now.
Spook is the silver, gray cat, really I think he has some Russian blue in him, Boo is the brownish black cat with some stripes and spots on him..Tech at the vet said he looked like a Tabby...
Spook and Boo get along very well together and have been best buds..
Boo's coat is super shiny and Spook's is shiny too but not as easy to see.
Spook's fur is the softest fur I have seen on a cat....
Spook is the silver, gray cat, really I think he has some Russian blue in him, Boo is the brownish black cat with some stripes and spots on him..Tech at the vet said he looked like a Tabby...
Spook and Boo get along very well together and have been best buds..
Boo's coat is super shiny and Spook's is shiny too but not as easy to see.
Spook's fur is the softest fur I have seen on a cat....
well lets hope the NO diarrhea will continue.....good luck!!
Donna just looked at your new photo uploads...do you have 2 cats? Spook is the black one?
they are both so sleek and healthy looking, same harness idea I use for my Sami too! -)
have a great day!!
Donna just looked at your new photo uploads...do you have 2 cats? Spook is the black one?
they are both so sleek and healthy looking, same harness idea I use for my Sami too! -)
have a great day!!
HMMM, he started out on Iams for kittens, which had fiber, which he developed diarrhea so I gradually changed him over to Blue Spa Healthy growth for kittens, which I believe had barley and oats..which he developed diarrhea.
I would not say it is a food allergy, I firmly believe it is a food Intolerance.
I believe it could quite possibly be to eggs.
I did not start him out on a grain free kitten food and still he developed diarrhea that took the first time about a month to get his GI tract back to normal.
Three months later another bout, 10 days to clear up
The most recent , 3 days and this is since I am giving him Natural Balance LID, which uses peas , pea protein, flaxseed ..
Now I am not saying that this has "cured" him but he has been doing well for the past 4 days now with no diarrhea...and this has been the shortest bout of Diarrhea..
What kind of fiber are you suggesting, wheat, oats,barley, brown rice etc..??
Any suggestions would be welcome..
I would not say it is a food allergy, I firmly believe it is a food Intolerance.
I believe it could quite possibly be to eggs.
I did not start him out on a grain free kitten food and still he developed diarrhea that took the first time about a month to get his GI tract back to normal.
Three months later another bout, 10 days to clear up
The most recent , 3 days and this is since I am giving him Natural Balance LID, which uses peas , pea protein, flaxseed ..
Now I am not saying that this has "cured" him but he has been doing well for the past 4 days now with no diarrhea...and this has been the shortest bout of Diarrhea..
What kind of fiber are you suggesting, wheat, oats,barley, brown rice etc..??
Any suggestions would be welcome..
This really doesn't sound like a food allergy to me, but more likely a nutritional deficiency, most likely fiber. He doesn't need mega amounts of carbs, but he does need carbs for the fiber. The probiotics should help to.
TY Jade..I believe that our animals are members of our family and must be taken care of as we would our children..
Day two, normal stool.
gave him a taste of Natural Balance LID duck & Pea in canned last night, no bad reaction so far ..
I also give Spook a very good probiotic called Probiotic Miracle for cats and dogs..Just some over his dry, but it is not cheap!
Will keep updating you all..
Now if I can get my IC flare under control things would be better..
Day two, normal stool.
gave him a taste of Natural Balance LID duck & Pea in canned last night, no bad reaction so far ..
I also give Spook a very good probiotic called Probiotic Miracle for cats and dogs..Just some over his dry, but it is not cheap!
Will keep updating you all..
Now if I can get my IC flare under control things would be better..
COMMUNITY LEADER
Fingers crossed you've landed on the right food, Donna! A well formed poop is a well fed kitty! And these special needs cats know just the right person to choose, Donna : ) I truly admire You, Opus and other members who do so much research and go to such amazing lengths for their cats.
Yes, I do not plan on feeding fish solely as it is also high in sodium.
I have not tried Beef at all for Spook, so this is one he has not had besides Rabbit.
The Natural balance canned LID is in Duck & Pea, Chicken & pea and Venison &Pea..All have Salmon OIL in them, not actual salmon.
I want to transition him over to at least 50% canned or more, leaving dry as maybe 25-30% of his intake...
Right now his water intake is great, plus I feel somewhat better knowing his dry does not have mega amounts of carbs.
Evo dry, he was on this for cats and kittens, Turkey & chicken.I started out very slowly transitioning him over and part way is when I noticed the scratching..
Not thinking or thinking perhaps it was dry skin I transitioned him over completely and the scratching continued and I took him to the vet to be checked out. No fleas, no dry skin, so no clue..
The Evo canned, he nibbled on it and it never gave him diarrhea, of course it was Duck, contained Herring oil, not actual herring..and I believe it did not contain any EGG like the Evo dry and Evo Cat and Kitten Turkey & chicken canned..
He also had Wellness no grain canned in Turkey, no diarrhea.It does not have any fish or fish oil or egg...
So, I am going to stay away from any canned food with egg and I hesitate at this moment with any that have actual fish as an ingredient in them.
For some reason I feel he would be ok with Salmon OIL, herring OIL ..But , who knows.
It is about 1:00 PM and no more diarrhea as of yesterday !!! Don't want to speak too soon as we all know things can change very quickly....
I have not tried Beef at all for Spook, so this is one he has not had besides Rabbit.
The Natural balance canned LID is in Duck & Pea, Chicken & pea and Venison &Pea..All have Salmon OIL in them, not actual salmon.
I want to transition him over to at least 50% canned or more, leaving dry as maybe 25-30% of his intake...
Right now his water intake is great, plus I feel somewhat better knowing his dry does not have mega amounts of carbs.
Evo dry, he was on this for cats and kittens, Turkey & chicken.I started out very slowly transitioning him over and part way is when I noticed the scratching..
Not thinking or thinking perhaps it was dry skin I transitioned him over completely and the scratching continued and I took him to the vet to be checked out. No fleas, no dry skin, so no clue..
The Evo canned, he nibbled on it and it never gave him diarrhea, of course it was Duck, contained Herring oil, not actual herring..and I believe it did not contain any EGG like the Evo dry and Evo Cat and Kitten Turkey & chicken canned..
He also had Wellness no grain canned in Turkey, no diarrhea.It does not have any fish or fish oil or egg...
So, I am going to stay away from any canned food with egg and I hesitate at this moment with any that have actual fish as an ingredient in them.
For some reason I feel he would be ok with Salmon OIL, herring OIL ..But , who knows.
It is about 1:00 PM and no more diarrhea as of yesterday !!! Don't want to speak too soon as we all know things can change very quickly....
hi Donna, I just don't know what to suggest. I know long term feeding of fish can also cause problems...I read this when I had Sami on such a diet. if you do feed fish or fish by products the article says its important to also supplement with Vit E
http://www.petplace.com/cats/steatitis/page1.aspx
As far as an egg allergy, thats quite possible too....as with ppl allergies to anything is an elimination process..hard to do with kitties when they pull the refusal trick.
work at getting his diet as basic as possible, thats why I like brands like EVO 95% beef for example.....Sami is eating this now, however I've read that many cats are allergic to beef too...but by far the biggest allergic reactions come from grains or chicken(anything with feathers...so yeah duck too)...therefore many of the hypoallergenic diets are Venison based.
confusing yes and most frustrating too.....:-)
http://www.petplace.com/cats/steatitis/page1.aspx
As far as an egg allergy, thats quite possible too....as with ppl allergies to anything is an elimination process..hard to do with kitties when they pull the refusal trick.
work at getting his diet as basic as possible, thats why I like brands like EVO 95% beef for example.....Sami is eating this now, however I've read that many cats are allergic to beef too...but by far the biggest allergic reactions come from grains or chicken(anything with feathers...so yeah duck too)...therefore many of the hypoallergenic diets are Venison based.
confusing yes and most frustrating too.....:-)
Thanks Jade..
I really would prefer canned .
Yesterday, two runny poos, not the same ordeal as last time, going up to 10 times a day!
This morning, a solid, well formed poop!!!!
So...Could I have been right in my guessing he was allergic (food intolerance) to EGGS?? Or perhaps like Opus mentioned , something in the way the other dry foods were processed??
Natural balance LID:
Fresh green peas,Fresh duck, extra Taurine fortified, canola oil, flaxseed, grain free, no artificial flavors, colors or bleached ingredients..
Now, question...Natural balance makes canned lid in duck, chicken, venison.All of these does have fish in the listed ingredients and since the dry does not, I wonder if it would be ok for Spook.
Fish is the only other protein source that has been in all other of the dry formulas that I have fed him...(Evo had Herring and herring oil but the canned Evo Duck did not give Spook diarrhea)
Wow, soo confusing, mystery cats and special needs cats always find their way to me!!!
I really would prefer canned .
Yesterday, two runny poos, not the same ordeal as last time, going up to 10 times a day!
This morning, a solid, well formed poop!!!!
So...Could I have been right in my guessing he was allergic (food intolerance) to EGGS?? Or perhaps like Opus mentioned , something in the way the other dry foods were processed??
Natural balance LID:
Fresh green peas,Fresh duck, extra Taurine fortified, canola oil, flaxseed, grain free, no artificial flavors, colors or bleached ingredients..
Now, question...Natural balance makes canned lid in duck, chicken, venison.All of these does have fish in the listed ingredients and since the dry does not, I wonder if it would be ok for Spook.
Fish is the only other protein source that has been in all other of the dry formulas that I have fed him...(Evo had Herring and herring oil but the canned Evo Duck did not give Spook diarrhea)
Wow, soo confusing, mystery cats and special needs cats always find their way to me!!!
COMMUNITY LEADER
Hi Donna, nice to see you back, although sorry for the reason. I see Opus mentioned PrettyKitty1 and the challenges she had with her Abby. Right now, Abby is on a prescription diet (like you, PK is Not happy about it, but no choice since she has a new baby) and doing very well from my understanding so if it does come down to that diet, just letting you know Abby is tolerating it well so maybe Spook will, too. Of course, fingers crossed the Natural Balance LID will be tolerated and you can stick with that.
As always, I wish you the best of luck and Spook, well formed BM's. : )
As always, I wish you the best of luck and Spook, well formed BM's. : )
Hello Opus!
Yes, you know how I feel about dry but this cat will be a challenge to switch over since he will not eat any "people food", cat treats, only nibbles on canned.
I have read about feeding raw but am hesitant at this point.
He is on Natural Balance LID with only one protein source as of two days now..Vet suggested, if this does not work, a "prescription diet" for gastrointestional health (I hate prescription diet foods) and do not want to do this.
His poo is like pudding at this stage right at the moment and he has not gone since 5:30 this morning so I am praying that I might have hit on something with using just one protein source and omitting the eggs(no fish either).
I found the past three he has been on, Blue healthy growth for kittens and Evo no grain had eggs in them and so did the Merrick chicken & quail that I let him nibble on Sunday evening..
No, if I could find a grain free canned food that would work for him I would try it..Of course no eggs in it and I am wondering about fish also since all the other dry had it..(evo herring and Herring oil, Blue Fish oil)
Thanks ,
Donna
Yes, you know how I feel about dry but this cat will be a challenge to switch over since he will not eat any "people food", cat treats, only nibbles on canned.
I have read about feeding raw but am hesitant at this point.
He is on Natural Balance LID with only one protein source as of two days now..Vet suggested, if this does not work, a "prescription diet" for gastrointestional health (I hate prescription diet foods) and do not want to do this.
His poo is like pudding at this stage right at the moment and he has not gone since 5:30 this morning so I am praying that I might have hit on something with using just one protein source and omitting the eggs(no fish either).
I found the past three he has been on, Blue healthy growth for kittens and Evo no grain had eggs in them and so did the Merrick chicken & quail that I let him nibble on Sunday evening..
No, if I could find a grain free canned food that would work for him I would try it..Of course no eggs in it and I am wondering about fish also since all the other dry had it..(evo herring and Herring oil, Blue Fish oil)
Thanks ,
Donna
hi Donna so nice to see you again, unfortunately its b/c of a problem with little Spook..
food intolerance's can be so hard to isolate as you have done just about all you needed too. IMO thats what the problem is...he is reacting to some ingredient, something thats common in all the foods you are trying...since they are all kibble its my thoughts that it could be something in the manufacturing process of dry, but thats a guess. have you read the site
www.catinfo.org
this Vet has a excellent understanding of nutrition and pet foods.
from what I know from a previous MedHelp member prettykitty1. you can probably look up many of her posts in the archives.
she needed to resort to feeding a raw diet....I don't know if your willing to try that or not? It was the only thing after tons of tests and research that worked for her Abby.
I've read of many others in a holistic forum that say the same.
I would at least try ALL the transitioning tips on the catinfo articles and see if you can at least get him OFF dry and you may find that works too.(?)
I advice you that whatever you do don't resort to steroids and I'm sure the Vet will advise that at some point!!
I previous had a ragdoll cat named Tia, with the same problem...tons of test and diet changes with no results. she was given steroids that helped periodically but eventually led to illness and death...
I didn't know about Medhelp or catinfo or holistic forums at that time or I'm sure I could have helped her....my poor baby.....she too was consistently fed dry food!!
here is another Veterinary site that you may find some info on IBD.
http://veterinarycalendar.dvm360.com/avhc/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=676846&pageID=1&sk=&date=
I wish you and Spook tons of luck, please keep us updated....♥Opus
food intolerance's can be so hard to isolate as you have done just about all you needed too. IMO thats what the problem is...he is reacting to some ingredient, something thats common in all the foods you are trying...since they are all kibble its my thoughts that it could be something in the manufacturing process of dry, but thats a guess. have you read the site
www.catinfo.org
this Vet has a excellent understanding of nutrition and pet foods.
from what I know from a previous MedHelp member prettykitty1. you can probably look up many of her posts in the archives.
she needed to resort to feeding a raw diet....I don't know if your willing to try that or not? It was the only thing after tons of tests and research that worked for her Abby.
I've read of many others in a holistic forum that say the same.
I would at least try ALL the transitioning tips on the catinfo articles and see if you can at least get him OFF dry and you may find that works too.(?)
I advice you that whatever you do don't resort to steroids and I'm sure the Vet will advise that at some point!!
I previous had a ragdoll cat named Tia, with the same problem...tons of test and diet changes with no results. she was given steroids that helped periodically but eventually led to illness and death...
I didn't know about Medhelp or catinfo or holistic forums at that time or I'm sure I could have helped her....my poor baby.....she too was consistently fed dry food!!
here is another Veterinary site that you may find some info on IBD.
http://veterinarycalendar.dvm360.com/avhc/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=676846&pageID=1&sk=&date=
I wish you and Spook tons of luck, please keep us updated....♥Opus
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