rabies shot and feline leukemia

[meesh500]

my kitten was recently neutered, at 10 weeks, and given the distemper AND the rabies vaccine.  Then I was later told the kitten tested positive for feline leukemia.  Any advice on what to do for her?  I thought the rab ies vaccine would be given later at around 5 or 6 months.  ALSO, since she tested positive for feline leukemia, I am extremely upset that they gave her any vaccinations at all which  further compromise her immune systemI was shocked about the feline leukemi because she seems healthy and is beautiful with a good appetite.  After the shots she seems a little sad and is not eating s much as before.  Does anyone have any experience with this?  

[nancyjac]

My organization is called Shadow Cats and we are in central Texas.  Our web site is www.shadowcats.net .  There is an excellent video link on our home page that is a virtual tour of the sanctuary.  We are a non-profit organization and are very fortunate to have a vet, who happens to be the President Elect of the American Association of Feline Practitioners, who provides pro bono care for our FeLV+ cats when we don't have the donations to cover it.  We are also fortunate to have a world wide donor support network and all of our FeLV+ cats have sponsors who provide regular donations to help with their care.  We also provide TNR services in conjunction with a locale Human Society chapter and have been instrumental in enacting TNR legislation in several local jurisdictions.

Unfortunately, there is no CDC for the feline world, so it is up to local vets, shelters, and rescue groups to do the best they can to contain disease outbreaks.  That is why most vets and shelters euthanize FeLV+ cats.  It is of course heartbreaking for these individual cats, but even more so when you consider the thousands of additional cats that are lost due to the spread of disease by FeLV+ cats who are not properly isolated from non-infected cats.  .

As for treatment for our FeLV+ cats, that is highly individualized.  It is primarily symptom treatment with meds and surgery as needed for the secondary illness and conditions that FeLV+ cats are prone to.    

[swampcritter]

Swampy, too, has lost cats to feline leukemia. If allowed to run its course, it causes considerable suffering. Imagine your cat crying in pain all night without sleeping, and wasting away before your eyes. That is what happens.

[meesh500]

Is there anything special you give your felv cats?  meds or supllements?  I'm happy to hear you are with such a sanctuary.  I doubt you are in NJ, what state are you in, if you don't mind telling me.  I am in NJ, and in my expereince here, most vets want to put down a positive cat right away even if they have no symptoms.   Sorry about your Robin and Lacey, but I am so happy for them that they had all those years!

[nancyjac]

I am currently working at a cat sanctuary that includes 25 FeLV + cats.  Several more of them are FIV +.  Right now we have a total of 95 cats, all of whom have various medical and/or behavioral issues.  We lost 2 of our FeLV+ cats last week.  Robin was 6 and Lacey was 7.

[meesh500]

Thank you!  Thank you!  I had forgotten about lactoferrin.  I will look into that .  I am determined to get this little guy healthy again!

[meesh500]

Thank you and I do appreciate and understand your point. I do believe vaccinations have helped thousands of animals, and that is why we do not see as much distemper  anymore.  But I believe that vaccinations should only be given to a healthy animal.  Years ago, I was the first person to take my cats and dogs for their yearly shots.  But then I saw a pattern develop.  Certain cats would deteriorate after vaccintions.  Mos tof the time the feline leukemia virus or fiv was the cause.  When I had a cat tested and it ws positive for FL, most ofthe time, the vet suggested I put down  the cat.  I couldn't  at that point because the cat was still healthy.   I   have found that an unvaccinated cat, kept indoors, positive for leukemia could live a good life with no illness!   I have had two that lived 7 and 8 years, and one lived 15 years!   None were ever sick until the end of thier life!  
I have also had two cats live over 20 years, 21, and 23 years, both only had gotten one rbies vaccine when they were spayed--and they were outdoor cats.  ITs all about the immune system and how strong it is.  FL will definitely weaken it  

So, my point is, only vaccinate a healthy cat, not an immune compromised one.  I have reached this conclusion after 25 years of observation.,  

I am now searching for more info from people like myself that have taken care of many cats and have their own  experience with FL positive cats.  There is always new info, and I am hoping to find it.  

Believe me, I have the highest respect for you and anyone that has worked in a shelter  or a vets office and expereinced the daily tragedies that occur.  I could never do that.

But I have also experienced vets with closed minds that would have extinguished the life of many cats that brought such joy to my life and ended up living great lives because they were given a chance.against all odds.  

[opus88]

I am so very sorry to hear kitty isn't doing well....I wish him all the luck in the world to pull through this. sounds like you've done good research and are doing all you can to help him out. MY cat book recommends 250mg Vitamin C.I would start with less maybe for a small kitten...adjust if kitty develops stomach upset, keep in mind calcuim ascorbate is easier on th stomach than ascorbic acid. the best one that I use is by NOW foods, safe for cats, no sugar,salt, soy or preservatives...also avail thru iherb  its in a powder and 1 teaspoon equals 180mg

http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Acerola-4-1-Concentrate-Powder-6-oz-170-g/367?at=0

I would also recommend Lactoferrin for immune system support. at 20mg/per kg of body weight....he probably doesn't weight very much. the following is a very good brand however comes in 250mg capsules so would have to be taken out of the capsule and divided up in a very small amounts, it can be mixed in with his food or mixed with a drop of water and given via dropper.
I haven't used Lactoferrin before, but I have ordered thru iherb many times, they are fast, have good prices and are very reputable. shipping I think is $4
the Symbiotics brand is one of the few that are safest for kitties...with no additives or preservatives. another good brand is Jarrow.
here is the link.

http://www.iherb.com/Symbiotics-Lactoferrin-100-60-Capsules/4088?at=0

again, I am so sad this happens so often and so unnecessarily to these poor innocent little guys.  sure do have my fingers crossed. and please keep me posted...I do caution thought that my holistic book does state not to use supplements when using medications...are you sure the antibiotic is warranted??????

all my best ♥

[nancyjac]

Sigh.....I won't argue the point.  

I have seen lots of cats die....from FeLV, from rabies, from panleukopenia (formerly distemper).  They were all unvaccinated.  Thousands of cats die every year in shelters, in catteries, and in homes because their owners don't vaccinate them and let them infect other cats.  If you choose not to vaccinate your cats, that is your choice.  But then please don't expose them to other cats.

http://www.pawnation.com/2010/08/24/cat-vaccines-what-you-need-to-know/

[meesh500]

Thank you for your caring and informative information.  I am treating the baby with antibiotics, vitamin C (which kills viruses, see Dr. Wendell Belfield's work on turning leukemia positive kittens to negative with vitamin c treatments), homepathic thudja,  fluids, transfer factor and good food.  The little guy is sick.  I expected this.  I'm only hoping that his immune system can handle the vaccines without the leukemia taking over.   This is what kills me about these low-cost spay neuter clinics.  They think they know everthing and I can only imagine how many animals have died due to their incompetence.  If a cat is leukemia positive, you do not vaccinate the cat, especially such a young kitten!    I have had many fl positive cats live good long lives, never getting sick, because  I never vaccinated them!  The ones that were vaccinated usually died within 6 months, if not sooner.   But I have never had such a young kitten vaccinated for rabies.  I am hoping he makes it.  He is a beautiful little silver tabby, was so happy, healthy and playful, and is now sad, sullen, only sleeping, not interested in food, high ferver, and I am heartbroken.  If you know of any other supplements, please let me know.  Thank you and I will let you know what happens.  Keep your fingers crossed that he makes it.

[opus88]

Further reading from Dr. Don Hamilton DVM and quotes from many others in Veterinary practice.

http://www.thewholedog.org/id14.html

another site with various books and articles written by Veterinarians opposed to all vaccinations except rabies where required by LAW.

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/petvacc.htm#vacc_effects

-Dr Ron Shultz Professor and chair of Dept of Pathobiological Sciences @ School of Veterinary Medicine. UW-Madison
quote"annual vaccinations provide NO benefit and may increase risk of adverse reactions"

-Dr Charles E Loops DVM "vaccines are in fact destroying the health and immune system"

-Dr Pat Bradley DVM quote" I think we often exceed the limit of animals to detoxify poisons and overwhelm the body's immune system function with toxins from vaccines"
and so on.

I know I've read alot and have since decided to NO longer vaccinate my own animals. And I hope everyone will read and make an informed decision

[opus88]

I know it common practice however not necessarily the correct practice...to vaccinate FeLV kitties..I'll copy from Sandy Arora of Whole Happy and Healthy Cats.

"a cat with FeLV shouldn't receive vaccinations. he already has a compromised immune system and vaccines will further depress his immunity and can cause disease. The FeLV vac is a 'killed' vaccine that hasn't been established as particularly effective; its biggest drawback is its association with aggressive sarcomas that develop at the injection site."
"If you have a cat that has tested positive for any infectious disease or is otherwise unwell, NEVER allow her to be vaccinated"

I also add an excerpt from an site of the dangers of vaccinating 'unsafe animals' in which an immune system response is unlikely to be normal...

http://www.pet-informed-veterinary-advice-online.com/how-do-vaccines-work.html


Live virus and bacterial vaccines are considered unsafe in animals in which an immune system response is unlikely to be forthcoming or normal. These include:
- animals with proven genetic immunodeficiencies (i.e. born without certain functional parts of the immune system).
- animals with acquired immunodeficiencies - this includes animals on chemotherapy; cats with FIV (no T cells) and animals with bone marrow suppression and low white blood cell counts.
- unwell animals. When an animal is vaccinated, lots of white blood cells are consumed in fighting the vaccine 'infection'. These white cells (especially the non-antigen-specific 'soldier' cells) are thus not available for use elsewhere in the body, should another infection arise somewhere. If an animal is unwell or brewing an infection somewhere, then all of its immune cells will already be invested in battling the infection or trauma already afflicting the animal. If you then go and vaccinate this animal, cells will need be to diverted away from the site of disease to the vaccine site. This loss of 'troops' from the site of disease could well result in the disease becoming worse due to there being less inflammatory cells available to fight it.
- animals with a fever (some immune cells will not respond normally to an antigen in the presence of fever making vaccination, at best, ineffective and, at worst, harmful).
- animals with a subnormal / low temperature.
- newborn animals that did not get their colostrum. Although live vaccines are fine for use in animals over 4 weeks (which have a functional, though naive immune system) and newborn animals protected by their mother's colostrum, newborn animals (termed neonates) unprotected by maternal antibodies have a greatly reduced immune response (not much better than the late-stage fetus) and live vaccines may produce disease in them.

Animals that have had previous allergic reactions to live vaccines should not be given the same ones again.

Because many of these viruses like to replicate in rapidly-dividing cells, they will tend to preferentially infect tissues where cells are dividing quickly. This includes the dividing cells of fetuses. Live vaccines have the potential to cause birth-defects, abortion and stillbirth and are contraindicated in pregnant ******* and queens.

[nancyjac]

I have to disagree with this one.  I've worked with many vets who give multiple vaccinations at the same time as spay or neuter surgery.  It is fairly common practice and I've never known of any complications.  Some cats do have reactions to vaccinations but those that do will have them regardless of the surgery or combination.

I also disagree that FeLV cats shouldn't be given any vaccines.  It is precisely because their immune systems are compromised that they in particular need the vaccines and they are more susceptible to other infections.

Unfortunately, there is no cure for FeLV.  However, while not common, some exposed cats are able to shed the virus so I would recommend having her retested in about 6 months.  FeLV can be spread through direct contact with other cats so it is important you issolate this cat from other cats and not allow it outdoors.

[opus88]

hi and welcome. you are so right for one thing rabies should never be given at the same time as other vac's b/c it alone can make a kitty not feel very good for a few days so to combine it is just compounding side effects. And Vac's should also NEVER be given while undergoing a surgery of any kind....geez this Vet is really not doing this poor kitty any favors.
and like you said the combo of vac's is weakening her immune system further...something a FeLV kitty can't afford. FeLV kitties shouldn't be given any vaccines.

She is probably feeling pretty under the weather right about now, hopefully will bounce back soon. be sure she is at least still eating and drinking properly even if not quite as heartily as before....that should return to normal well within a week or contact your clinic.
Remember cats unlike dogs cannot go much more than 24hrs without food or water before they begin to go into liver failure.
Be sure you are feeding her a high quality 'grain free' high protein CAN diet

http://www.medhelp.org/health_pages/Pets/GRAIN-FREE-COMMERCIAL-CAT-FOODS/show/1203?cid=2

it would be a good to start giving her a well formulated mulitvitamin capsule(look for ones with minimal fillers).
I am hoping since she wasn't showing any signs prior to this of FeLV that her immune system was/is strong and she will rebound quickly....poor little tyke, she is fighting hard right now, man this makes me angry....

keep us posted and good luck to you both♥