Aa
12-year old boy poops pants daily. Parent enabled?
jodykip posted:
I read bit and pieces of my question/problem, but never the whole thing.
My fiance's 12-yr-old son poops his pants every day, and still wets the bed. It isn't encopresis (I don't think). His parents split when he was 2.5, he was frantic and his mom "didn't have the heart" to discipline him for toileting. So today, his idea of bowel control seems to be "hold it until school is out" and "weekends are free."
He's coming to live with us this month, and maybe will stay for school in the fall. I love him to death. He is bright, wry, a crackerjack student and athlete, and a perfect small replica of his gorgeous dad (I'm marrying a great guy!). But I feel like I can't quite accept him because of the pooping. (He wears something like a diaper or pull-up to bed, and I don't mind that.)
I want to get a handle on this so I can understand it and help stop it. Can parents enable this? His mom is hostile to me, but once we were talking about Jack (the son) and she said "I was changing his pan . . . " -- and she stopped. I said, "You change his pants?" But she wouldn't answer, and seemed embarrassed. I know that his dad used to change him, and still will clean him up in some circumstances, like if he's dirty at bedtime. So, if parents do this, does it enable to kid? I'm sure there are no consequences for pooped pants at his mom's, and few here (he has to stop what he's doing and go change).
Jack himself never mentions that he has pooped, but he will admit it if you ask, and will go change without resistance (thank God!). But he doesn't do a very good job, because I don't think he knows how. I've bought a hand-held shower for the bathtub, and a hand mirror. I want him to put the mirror on the floor and to stand over it so that he can see if he's clean. Will this help?
The reason I don't know if this is encopresis or something else (like habit) is that the "accidents" never happen in school, but otherwise aren't real predictable. He poops 1, 2, or 3 times every day, but at different times. The poop that I've seen looks completely normal. I mean, not runny/pasty or pellets, like enco. (See, I've done some research.) He will go pee, and while he stands there, he might dirty his pants too. We've talked a little about his accidents, and he's told me that he feels it too late, and that it starts by itself, but he has to "finish it off." I think he has control, but that it comes and goes. Or something.
The "accidents" make me push him away even though he is such a great kid, and I want to embrace him as if he were my own son. I feel guilty. For instance, Saturday before Memorial day, we all went to a concert on a big lawn. It got chilly, so I invited him to lean against me, and I put my coat and my arms around him to keep him warm. Fine. I felt like a great mom. Nuzzled him, kissed the back of his head, and so on. But in about 5 minutes, the odor began, and I realized that he had just dirtied his pants as he sat there. I had to push him away. I said, "Jack, you poopied your pants and I just don't like it when you smell." He seemed a little surprised (I don't know why, since I've mentioned it before), and slid over to his dad, who took him in. And I felt like I'd rejected him.
So, it looks like pooped pants are going to be "business as usual" in our house until I can figure a way to interrupt it. Sorry to run on about this. Any ideas?
hate to be the one to break the news, surprised you haven't figured it out yet, sorry...
http://aboutabdl.weebly.com/information-for-parents-of-abdl-childrenteens.html
http://understanding.infantilism.org/surveys/changing_abdl_community.php
http://www.toddlertime.com/dx/regression/infantilism.htm
http://aboutabdl.weebly.com/information-for-parents-of-abdl-childrenteens.html
http://understanding.infantilism.org/surveys/changing_abdl_community.php
http://www.toddlertime.com/dx/regression/infantilism.htm
Well I believe there is a great deal of issues involved in this whole situation, and from what you are saying it could be lot of pieces to the puzzle.Lets look at the big picture and the parts that make up the whole, there seems to be a fair amount of personality and history to this situation, and maybe some unresolved emotional parts to this not to mention some unresolved issues that might be underlying this whole experience.
One thing is the boy himself, he seem over all well adjusted on some levels, he is bright,does OK in school or at grade level, athletic, you seem to like him over all. He must have friends, social connections and would be a typical boy of his age accept for this part of his behavior,the question that comes to me is what is the pay off for him, if it is not a phyical issue.
One thing is I always suggest is to have the boy get a phyical and make sure nothing medical is going on just to be on the safe side also I would suggest doing a actual log of when and what happens for your own record, such as when it happens, what time of day, and notice if diet or activity has any play on how and when this happens,
Next is as the adults you all need to be on the same page, Mother,Father and now you the step mom, may I suggest getting some professional help to maybe help sort out the dynamics, of this new and soon to be new family.
Key points:
Mother, what is going on? changing and doing clean up on your 12 year boy, this to me is unhealthy, it is setting a odd and unhealthy bonds between a mother and her child, to me this could be causing some very blurred boundary both sexually and emotionally for boy involved. One must remember that at about age 9 hormones are starting in the body this effects all aspects of the child this could confuse some boundary sexually.
Father: you too what is going on, seems like we dont want to deal with it, so we pretend it doesn't exist? It time you and your ex wife get clear about this and what is healthy and not, and maybe own up to your part of the situation, often it is so interesting how the unresolved issues of the parents relationships vomits it self over the children and their lives, its time to get clear that this is not healthy or normal, or at least get clear that this happens, and it is fine. but be honest it is there in the room. the dysfunction needs to stop and it needs to be addressed.
Soon to be Step Mom: What are you thinking? where are you looking to married to this man, engaged and now your are going to talk about this when your planning to move in together. I would wonder what is it your not seeing about this, my first clue is the unresolved issues with the Dad and the Mother that every one is dancing around not dealing literally with the poop! their are some problems here and is this something you want to really jump into?
The 12 year old boy: What is the pay off? and how did he get here to this point, on some level this behavior has been supported both by his parents, the mother in that she has and seems to still continue to nurture him in his clean up ( please let me note if it was a father who was doing clean up on his 12year old daughter we would question the sexual nature of this !) also maybe it a way of getting attention? or plain and simple he may enjoy the whole experience, and find comfort in it, maybe it is normal for him, it is habit for him and the way he toilets himself,
my own son hated to use a public toilet and would hold it until he got home, and sometimes suffered constipation due to his anxiety of public restrooms. I also have a fellow co-worker who clients son stated wearing his night time diapers full time, ( he was bed wetter) he was in high school at the time, and she was very concerned when she found out he was using them as intended,( wetting and messing them) in that situation they got clear on some guidelines, one it was a privacy thing by this time, the child had already made up to control his body functions, the guild lines were, if the young man wanted to wear and use , he had to be respectful and responsible , he was not to mess them in or be with other family members while dirty. if he wanted to do his toileting in that manor, he was to clean himself and deal with the sanitary issues in a way that didn't effect others. ( he was to dispose of soiled and wet diapers in a proper way, also he was taught and learned to do his own laundry ) after a few short months his desire to wear and use seemed be not a issue any more, but they all got clear on the boundary and what worked.
Alot of water has gone under the bridge, and their is some issues that have been going on for a long time, good luck and again I suggest there is more to this then the boy with poop in his pants.
One thing is the boy himself, he seem over all well adjusted on some levels, he is bright,does OK in school or at grade level, athletic, you seem to like him over all. He must have friends, social connections and would be a typical boy of his age accept for this part of his behavior,the question that comes to me is what is the pay off for him, if it is not a phyical issue.
One thing is I always suggest is to have the boy get a phyical and make sure nothing medical is going on just to be on the safe side also I would suggest doing a actual log of when and what happens for your own record, such as when it happens, what time of day, and notice if diet or activity has any play on how and when this happens,
Next is as the adults you all need to be on the same page, Mother,Father and now you the step mom, may I suggest getting some professional help to maybe help sort out the dynamics, of this new and soon to be new family.
Key points:
Mother, what is going on? changing and doing clean up on your 12 year boy, this to me is unhealthy, it is setting a odd and unhealthy bonds between a mother and her child, to me this could be causing some very blurred boundary both sexually and emotionally for boy involved. One must remember that at about age 9 hormones are starting in the body this effects all aspects of the child this could confuse some boundary sexually.
Father: you too what is going on, seems like we dont want to deal with it, so we pretend it doesn't exist? It time you and your ex wife get clear about this and what is healthy and not, and maybe own up to your part of the situation, often it is so interesting how the unresolved issues of the parents relationships vomits it self over the children and their lives, its time to get clear that this is not healthy or normal, or at least get clear that this happens, and it is fine. but be honest it is there in the room. the dysfunction needs to stop and it needs to be addressed.
Soon to be Step Mom: What are you thinking? where are you looking to married to this man, engaged and now your are going to talk about this when your planning to move in together. I would wonder what is it your not seeing about this, my first clue is the unresolved issues with the Dad and the Mother that every one is dancing around not dealing literally with the poop! their are some problems here and is this something you want to really jump into?
The 12 year old boy: What is the pay off? and how did he get here to this point, on some level this behavior has been supported both by his parents, the mother in that she has and seems to still continue to nurture him in his clean up ( please let me note if it was a father who was doing clean up on his 12year old daughter we would question the sexual nature of this !) also maybe it a way of getting attention? or plain and simple he may enjoy the whole experience, and find comfort in it, maybe it is normal for him, it is habit for him and the way he toilets himself,
my own son hated to use a public toilet and would hold it until he got home, and sometimes suffered constipation due to his anxiety of public restrooms. I also have a fellow co-worker who clients son stated wearing his night time diapers full time, ( he was bed wetter) he was in high school at the time, and she was very concerned when she found out he was using them as intended,( wetting and messing them) in that situation they got clear on some guidelines, one it was a privacy thing by this time, the child had already made up to control his body functions, the guild lines were, if the young man wanted to wear and use , he had to be respectful and responsible , he was not to mess them in or be with other family members while dirty. if he wanted to do his toileting in that manor, he was to clean himself and deal with the sanitary issues in a way that didn't effect others. ( he was to dispose of soiled and wet diapers in a proper way, also he was taught and learned to do his own laundry ) after a few short months his desire to wear and use seemed be not a issue any more, but they all got clear on the boundary and what worked.
Alot of water has gone under the bridge, and their is some issues that have been going on for a long time, good luck and again I suggest there is more to this then the boy with poop in his pants.
Hey I just wanted to say I had the same problem as a child, with both of those issues and I didn't fully stop until I was 14, some peoples bodies just take time to develop and don't forget our bodies are not fully developed until 21, so although rare, it's possible that people can have a slower development in some areas. For example not being able to hold in Poo, I know with me, I just didn't feel it coming until it was too late and it would just be there and yeah... As for the bed wetting it's probably the same issue with his body trying to pass fluids and not recognising he's asleep and he cannot act on it. It's complicated but he will grow out of it in time, everyone does. I suggest consulting a doctor about it as they can probably give you the best advice, although theres not much you can do to actually stop this if it is what I experienced. I tried electronic alarms which sense when you're about to pee in your sleep and wake you up, didn't really work as I woke up to late most times, as for the bowels issue theres really nothing you can do, I took substances to slow down my system, so that I had time to realise what was going on but again speak to a doctor and sort it out that way. Hope this helped and just let him grow out of it if the doctor doens't have any solutions. It's annoying I know I could tell as a child my family found my problems a pain and it hurt for me so try not to show him your frustration if you do feel it sometimes. Best of luck :)
As a mother of an adopted 7 year old, we have also struggled with the problem of dedication/urination. I have received numerous bits and pieces of advice concerning this and other troubling issues our daughter has displayed. Let me tell you the best advice: Let the problem become the child's problem. As long as you feel more anxious than the child, its your problem, not his. As long as you (or his parents) are cleaning up the mess, he'll continue the behavior.
We had ruled out medical reasons for the pooping in the pants in our initial evaluation. The problem of urination/defecation continued more and more often. The more pull-up pants we purchased, the worse it got. It didn't matter if we were at church, at school, or at home. She also said that she 'couldn't make it', even when the bathroom was beside her room or we reminded her frequently of bathroom breaks. We finally agreed that she was enjoying the behavior, much to our frustration.
Recently, we have had success with the following: Remove underware that are tight and send the child in boxer shorts. The parents agree to send the child to school (or you may choose to do this beginning on a weekend with several outings) with pants that are open at the bottom (no elastic sweat pants, but jeans or open legged running pants are great) and boxer shorts. When you son is choosing to go to the bathroom, he understands that it will come out at the bottom of his pants. Our seven year old was told that this would happen, but she had to test it out herself. When she pooped, she cleaned up the mess on her pants and on the carpet and chair. She tried it again in public, and had to clean up the mess off of the floor. My husband and I had to agree that the embarrassment had to be hers as well as the clean up, or the problem wouldn't have been solved. She didn't try it out at school any more. Although our daughter sees a therapist weekly, the advice that finally worked was given to me from an adoptive mom of a 16 year old. He was choosing this behavior for years as well. It solved the problem on one school day when he chose to test out his public defecation. He hasn't had the problem in several years now.
We had ruled out medical reasons for the pooping in the pants in our initial evaluation. The problem of urination/defecation continued more and more often. The more pull-up pants we purchased, the worse it got. It didn't matter if we were at church, at school, or at home. She also said that she 'couldn't make it', even when the bathroom was beside her room or we reminded her frequently of bathroom breaks. We finally agreed that she was enjoying the behavior, much to our frustration.
Recently, we have had success with the following: Remove underware that are tight and send the child in boxer shorts. The parents agree to send the child to school (or you may choose to do this beginning on a weekend with several outings) with pants that are open at the bottom (no elastic sweat pants, but jeans or open legged running pants are great) and boxer shorts. When you son is choosing to go to the bathroom, he understands that it will come out at the bottom of his pants. Our seven year old was told that this would happen, but she had to test it out herself. When she pooped, she cleaned up the mess on her pants and on the carpet and chair. She tried it again in public, and had to clean up the mess off of the floor. My husband and I had to agree that the embarrassment had to be hers as well as the clean up, or the problem wouldn't have been solved. She didn't try it out at school any more. Although our daughter sees a therapist weekly, the advice that finally worked was given to me from an adoptive mom of a 16 year old. He was choosing this behavior for years as well. It solved the problem on one school day when he chose to test out his public defecation. He hasn't had the problem in several years now.
1 Comments
What works varies, you also could have harmed the child for life, because the emberrasment might lead to more mental disorders in the future. You truly won't know if it's succeful until she is older and hadn't devolved more mental issues, I'm rooting for you, but just because she quit popping her pants, doesn't mean the underlying problem has been solved. I did the same as a child, I truly didn't know why I did it , but now I do, unfortjust the beginning of a life that I subcolearned to deal with problems with self destructive behavior. Took a long time to figure it out, please keep an eye on her mental health, not just as a chikd, but for as long as you are around. I ended my behavior at 13, after I moved in with my mom. And got away from abusive step mom, but the underlying problem was not solved. Just wish I knew why I did what I did, sooner, it's hard to do anything in life when you self destruct to deal with anger, disappointment, and you don't even realize why you do what you do. Good luck, I am rooting for her, wouldn't wish my life on anyone.
Please keep us informed. If you solve the problem it will be help to others to know how you did it.
If he doesn't control himself at school, and if it isn't a toilet phobia, he may have a problem with his sphincter muscles. I wonder if this has ever been checked out.
2 Comments
It's depression, ADHD, and probably the beginning of a life of self destruction. The child needs help, this is a medical problem, your not going to punish the child until they quit, you will only make it worse. If not addressed by psychiatrist, it will worsen. He will gave subconsciously
They will have begun a way of dealing with life that is self destructive. Punishment and shame will only lead to more mental disorders. Vgl, just remember you are STEP mom, this is not enabled and you don't have to Godzilla your way in, this is something only his parents can deal with, and if done in a caring way, their will be less harm and less future repercussions.
COMMUNITY LEADER
That's one of the problems with the whole thing. I am not sure that he controls himself at school (check out my post two back).
My point was that being too understanding might well be enabling. So I would try another tack. My guess is that his behavior is both willful and habitual.
Another thought occurred to me. If he controls himself at school, but not at home, that suggests that he never uses a toilet. It is possible his problem is toilet related?
Another thought occurred to me. If he controls himself at school, but not at home, that suggests that he never uses a toilet. It is possible his problem is toilet related?
COMMUNITY LEADER
I post over on the ADHD forum a lot. If you need any additional resources to help convince your husband, let me know. I have tons of good web sites, etc. One book I recommend a lot is "The ADD/ ADHD Answer book," by Susan Ashley. Its about 10 bucks on Amazon. It covers everything from school to home in a very easy to read format. I'll do some research and see if I can find anything on his bowel problem. I do know that Its very common for ADHD kids to have that problem for the reasons you mentioned.
Got a feeling, like most ADHD behavioral modifications , that working on a schedule is going to be the most successful for you.
Got a feeling, like most ADHD behavioral modifications , that working on a schedule is going to be the most successful for you.
WOW!!!! This is very interesting! I myself have a 12 year old boy that does the same thing. It has been an ongoing problem for him for most of his life. He has ADHD and has been on medications for that for 6 years. Most of his life I was a single mom who worked and went to college. My parents were his "second home". I very active in trying to help him with his problem. I have tried everything from rewards, punishment. Embarrasment, having him clean his pants, restriction. He says that he feels the urge but doesn't want to stop what he is doing so ignores the urge and then has the "accident" but that he doesn't feel it...... Or smell it, which amazes me because it is the first thing I notice when he comes up to hug me. Sometimes he will just continue on with his activities with the poopy pants. When he does change, he hides the underwear in his room or the bathroom or throw them away. It happens anywhere..... Home, school, church it doesn't matter. I recently married and have moved and it is definitely causing problems in the new home. I have been with my husband for 7 years before we married although we didn't live together. They(my husband and son ) seem to have a good relationship. But my husband thinks that my son is doing this on purpose and can just stop at anytime. I know the social implications this can cause for him and we have tried to stress to him that if other kids find out he will be ostracized and made fun of. Not a good thing when coming into a new school. I believe there is some conscious thought but also some things that he cannot control. I do believe that the ADHD is a factor to some degree. The impulsivity, the not wanting to take time to go to the bathroom when he is engrossed in activities, holding it, which compounds the physical issues. I believe encoporesis is also a part. I can help with increasing fiber, water and stool softners, but how do I retrain his thought processes? I am also fighting a battle with my new husband who does not really believe that ADHD is real and is just a excuse and thinks that my son can just "stop" when he wants to. This is a real problem that affects everyone in the household. There are some very good points and ideas here that I will incorporate into trying to help my son. But any support or advice would be welcomed with open arms:)
COMMUNITY LEADER
Unfortunately, getting angry will not solve the problem. And while his behavior might be disgusting, there is no way of knowing if it is willful or habitual. As Nola, trialanderror, and specialmom have pointed out - this will take some time to gather information, caution and wisdom. And I think perhaps a doctor's advice as a starting point. Best wishes. Keep us informed.
Maybe it is time for people to get angry. Let's face it. His behavior is disgusting. And it is willful. He controls himself at school and saves these treats for when he is at home. It is an ingrained and nasty habit that gains him lots of attention. Why he developed the habit doesn't really matter. Don't put up with it.
Jody, your post and all its comments are a truly useful resource of thoughts on the subject and I hope you will all be able to look back at this poo dilemma as a "brief moment in history" without much drama.
My 10-year-old has gone through episodes such as your boy, less the bed-wetting, not on a daily basis - but about once a year for about 3 to 4 weeks from the time he was initially toilet trained. There were all kinds of physical and psychological reasons, not just one per se.
Based on a few tearful recent conversations with my son and based on observations over seven years, I could summarize as follows:
1. The Physical Trigger:
- the episodes have always been triggered by food intolerance and/or antibiotics (intolerance to artificial sweeteners or natural sugar substitutes)
- the "product" is neither constipation nor diarrhea but similar to what you would get after eating three bowls of oatmeal
2. The Physical Worsening:
- spending more than 9 hours at school (or daycare) without a moment of privacy, holding it in
- holding it in causing a loss of sensation at an earlier stage, thinks he has to go only when it is almost too late
3. The Emotional Worsening (Child):
- feels embarrassed even if not expressed
- anxious about timing, anxious about reaction by others
- can lead to denial, sadness, withdrawal, anger
4. The Emotional Worsening (Parent):
I made the mistake to search for behavioral and emotional answers only, questioning my son early on, only to realize that due to triggers above, he actually had physical issues. I used to get angry. In my son`s eyes, from infancy, I must have evolved from someone who "makes diaper changes fun" to a poo-furious mother. Needless to say - he recently asked me to mind my own business and to realize that everyone has some sort of problem to deal with.
We have an agreement that I do not interfere much but he cleans himself as quickly as possible should he ever enter another episode. Also, he avoids the triggers as much as possible. In addition, I am searching for more opportunities for my son to be his own boss so the focus can shift away from the poo topic.
I know this does not fully reflect your situation but from my perspective it is important to instate a few rules/procedures you can all accept. This is luckily what you seem to be doing anyway. After the conditions are set, just drop the subject and let the child take the lead. It is easier said than done when certain odors are present but respectful. Wishing you all the best.
My 10-year-old has gone through episodes such as your boy, less the bed-wetting, not on a daily basis - but about once a year for about 3 to 4 weeks from the time he was initially toilet trained. There were all kinds of physical and psychological reasons, not just one per se.
Based on a few tearful recent conversations with my son and based on observations over seven years, I could summarize as follows:
1. The Physical Trigger:
- the episodes have always been triggered by food intolerance and/or antibiotics (intolerance to artificial sweeteners or natural sugar substitutes)
- the "product" is neither constipation nor diarrhea but similar to what you would get after eating three bowls of oatmeal
2. The Physical Worsening:
- spending more than 9 hours at school (or daycare) without a moment of privacy, holding it in
- holding it in causing a loss of sensation at an earlier stage, thinks he has to go only when it is almost too late
3. The Emotional Worsening (Child):
- feels embarrassed even if not expressed
- anxious about timing, anxious about reaction by others
- can lead to denial, sadness, withdrawal, anger
4. The Emotional Worsening (Parent):
I made the mistake to search for behavioral and emotional answers only, questioning my son early on, only to realize that due to triggers above, he actually had physical issues. I used to get angry. In my son`s eyes, from infancy, I must have evolved from someone who "makes diaper changes fun" to a poo-furious mother. Needless to say - he recently asked me to mind my own business and to realize that everyone has some sort of problem to deal with.
We have an agreement that I do not interfere much but he cleans himself as quickly as possible should he ever enter another episode. Also, he avoids the triggers as much as possible. In addition, I am searching for more opportunities for my son to be his own boss so the focus can shift away from the poo topic.
I know this does not fully reflect your situation but from my perspective it is important to instate a few rules/procedures you can all accept. This is luckily what you seem to be doing anyway. After the conditions are set, just drop the subject and let the child take the lead. It is easier said than done when certain odors are present but respectful. Wishing you all the best.
I think that you will have a hard time changing anything in this dynamic without both parents or at least the father fully on board. This is ultimately up to the parent's. You may disagree (we may all disagree) with how they are handling it, but that does not matter. What matters is what will work and as long as they condone the behavior, it will continue, and you are perhaps setting yourself up for a battle with his parents and with Jack yourself, unless you get at least the father on board. It is clear that you care for this boy and want to help - that is wonderful, but I would suggest changing tactics if you want to help.
As others have suggested, I would start by getting more information, including talking to the boy's pediatrician. There is a chance that this is not intentional on his part, and I would not suggest treating it otherwise until these stones have been thoroughly unturned. Right now it sound like you are drawing conclusion without the full information. I would start with a non-judgmental conversation with the father - key here is non-judgmental. Remember, you want to help, not point out how terribly they have handled this. Most people are simply trying to be the best parents they know how to be.
Lastly, please keep in mind that shaming Jack will only serve to make the problem worse, no matter what the cause.
When you have more info and if the father is on board, then I can offer more suggestions then.
Good luck.
As others have suggested, I would start by getting more information, including talking to the boy's pediatrician. There is a chance that this is not intentional on his part, and I would not suggest treating it otherwise until these stones have been thoroughly unturned. Right now it sound like you are drawing conclusion without the full information. I would start with a non-judgmental conversation with the father - key here is non-judgmental. Remember, you want to help, not point out how terribly they have handled this. Most people are simply trying to be the best parents they know how to be.
Lastly, please keep in mind that shaming Jack will only serve to make the problem worse, no matter what the cause.
When you have more info and if the father is on board, then I can offer more suggestions then.
Good luck.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Going back to two things that you have said.
One: "I know that he comes home from school with poopy pants. His dad says that the school has never called about an accident in session since the first grade, and his mom (I need to TALK to this woman!) says it happens on the walk home, or in the car when she picks him up. And then again at about 7PM-ish. Just not in school or while among his friends. (I think.) Saturday morning is a sure bet. Sunday too."
That really does make it sound like he does it at school. His mom has no clue when it happens. If he can't control it at school, then he can't control it at home. Kids of his age (due to peer pressure, etc.) just don't poop at school without a very good reason. And the point is if he can't control it at school, then most of your reasons for why he is doing this are false. Thats why I keep coming back to this point.
You also said, "but I'm sure that he understands--intellectually--that boys his age don't poop their pants, even in the privacy of home with just mom or dad there." And I agree with you completely! Thats why I think that there is more going on here then just "him being rewarded for soiling."
If he is a normal, great kid in every other respect - then why would he be doing what he is doing unless it was something he couldn't control.
And I still am curious about his grades. Have they fallen at all lately in any subjects like math?
One: "I know that he comes home from school with poopy pants. His dad says that the school has never called about an accident in session since the first grade, and his mom (I need to TALK to this woman!) says it happens on the walk home, or in the car when she picks him up. And then again at about 7PM-ish. Just not in school or while among his friends. (I think.) Saturday morning is a sure bet. Sunday too."
That really does make it sound like he does it at school. His mom has no clue when it happens. If he can't control it at school, then he can't control it at home. Kids of his age (due to peer pressure, etc.) just don't poop at school without a very good reason. And the point is if he can't control it at school, then most of your reasons for why he is doing this are false. Thats why I keep coming back to this point.
You also said, "but I'm sure that he understands--intellectually--that boys his age don't poop their pants, even in the privacy of home with just mom or dad there." And I agree with you completely! Thats why I think that there is more going on here then just "him being rewarded for soiling."
If he is a normal, great kid in every other respect - then why would he be doing what he is doing unless it was something he couldn't control.
And I still am curious about his grades. Have they fallen at all lately in any subjects like math?
Well, it is odd for both a mother and father to lay down a child of twelve like a baby and change him. Something psychological in all three of them?
The reason why the prevalence is of importance is that it may give you more empathy to the problem and not have it be something you blame the parents for. Processsing in order to wake up from a deep slumber is difficult for some children. I've heard of some alarms working and you can also wake him at night at specific times and walk him to the bathroom. I wake at routine times myself out of habit, you can help build a habit. But is important to realize that a parent doesn't cause a child to wet at night or enable it. Or that a child is bad for doing that. You sound like you are on target to help him overcome it as I'm sure he wants to. Kids that wet at night suffer socially. Sleep overs become an impossibility. So, I think it is good to help him work through it with out thinking he is so strange for doing it.
As to the pooping. What you describe is such that i think you need to seek some professional help of a psychotherapist/psychologist to understand more about this boy and his parents.
And clearly, talk to his father. Good luck BTW, why is this boy leaving the custody of his mother (in terms of where he lives and goes to school)?
The reason why the prevalence is of importance is that it may give you more empathy to the problem and not have it be something you blame the parents for. Processsing in order to wake up from a deep slumber is difficult for some children. I've heard of some alarms working and you can also wake him at night at specific times and walk him to the bathroom. I wake at routine times myself out of habit, you can help build a habit. But is important to realize that a parent doesn't cause a child to wet at night or enable it. Or that a child is bad for doing that. You sound like you are on target to help him overcome it as I'm sure he wants to. Kids that wet at night suffer socially. Sleep overs become an impossibility. So, I think it is good to help him work through it with out thinking he is so strange for doing it.
As to the pooping. What you describe is such that i think you need to seek some professional help of a psychotherapist/psychologist to understand more about this boy and his parents.
And clearly, talk to his father. Good luck BTW, why is this boy leaving the custody of his mother (in terms of where he lives and goes to school)?
Laying him down and cleaning him like a baby?
Yes, that's exactly what I suspect: doing the cleaning for him. And that's what I'm going to find out about.
As for lingering smell: I've changed infants without benefit of gloves, and careful as I was, I recall occasional feces on my knuckles and, in any case, a lingering smell of feces/baby wipe on my hands. It didn't last long, but it was there immediately afterward, even after washing.
The bedwetting is a separate issue (I think, I hope) for which I'm going to propose purchase of an alarm. What does it matter how prevalent it is at his age? I intend to provide him with tools to end it.
I'm trying to get my ducks in a row so that I know what I'm talking about and know what I'm doing when I raise these issues seriously. I need to make a plan of action. I've been reading about encopresis (which this might not actually be) and about enuresis. I've posted my question here (and elsewhere) for additional perspective and ideas. I appreciate what's come to me.
As for Jack himself, he is very forthright about admitting an accident, if asked about it, and will go change his pants without resistance. But the result isn't very thorough because, I suspect, he has little experience doing it for himself. He wants to please me. We haven't yet talked seriously about his soiling, but I'm sure that he understands--intellectually--that boys his age don't poop their pants, even in the privacy of home with just mom or dad there. But how he connects to that fact emotionally, I'm still guessing.
Thanks for your response.
Yes, that's exactly what I suspect: doing the cleaning for him. And that's what I'm going to find out about.
As for lingering smell: I've changed infants without benefit of gloves, and careful as I was, I recall occasional feces on my knuckles and, in any case, a lingering smell of feces/baby wipe on my hands. It didn't last long, but it was there immediately afterward, even after washing.
The bedwetting is a separate issue (I think, I hope) for which I'm going to propose purchase of an alarm. What does it matter how prevalent it is at his age? I intend to provide him with tools to end it.
I'm trying to get my ducks in a row so that I know what I'm talking about and know what I'm doing when I raise these issues seriously. I need to make a plan of action. I've been reading about encopresis (which this might not actually be) and about enuresis. I've posted my question here (and elsewhere) for additional perspective and ideas. I appreciate what's come to me.
As for Jack himself, he is very forthright about admitting an accident, if asked about it, and will go change his pants without resistance. But the result isn't very thorough because, I suspect, he has little experience doing it for himself. He wants to please me. We haven't yet talked seriously about his soiling, but I'm sure that he understands--intellectually--that boys his age don't poop their pants, even in the privacy of home with just mom or dad there. But how he connects to that fact emotionally, I'm still guessing.
Thanks for your response.
Regarding night time wetting which I see you also mention, again, that is a lot less common than you may realize. Up to 12% of all kids wet until age 9 and then the percentage trickles down each year with plenty still doing it at 12 years old. Sound sleepers are most susceptible and most late bed wetters had one or both parents also wet the bed until the later years.
I find your constant reference to smelling poop and parents 'changing' the boy as odd. I would potentially help a child who soiled himself by taking the clothes and handing him things to clean up. What are you suggesting his father and mother are doing? Laying him down and cleaning him like a baby or toddler?
I find your constant reference to smelling poop and parents 'changing' the boy as odd. I would potentially help a child who soiled himself by taking the clothes and handing him things to clean up. What are you suggesting his father and mother are doing? Laying him down and cleaning him like a baby or toddler?
Okay, but ya know, I don't think the smell of changing a poopy something is going to linger. I've changed a lot of poopy somethings in my day and did not have a lingering odor nor did I use latex gloves. Have you changed a diaper or a person before? You don't put your hands right into the feces, right?
Something is not making sense to me in your story, I'm sorry to say. but good luck
Something is not making sense to me in your story, I'm sorry to say. but good luck
Hi, I just needed to say that he did wash his hands; as you know, the smell can linger. He's very good about his personal cleanliness, sanitation and housekeeping. What he hadn't done was use latex gloves (I guess that's what he'd use) because Jack's mom hadn't packed any with his underwear and wipes.
Thanks for your response.
Thanks for your response.
Well, a big suggestion is for your fiance to was his hands. No reason anyone whether they've recently dealt with helping to clean their child up should have a lingering odor of feces afterwards. That is unsanitary and odd on his father's part.
Again, I would take out any judgement as to how things are handled then and now but rather just come up with some ideas to help the boy along. You'll get a lot farther.
good luck with the conversation. I would say if your fiance is unwilling to help you help his child, I'd see that as a reason to end the relationship. You aren't on the same page regarding something you view as important and the troubles will grow from there. good luck and hope this will work out for you all.
Again, I would take out any judgement as to how things are handled then and now but rather just come up with some ideas to help the boy along. You'll get a lot farther.
good luck with the conversation. I would say if your fiance is unwilling to help you help his child, I'd see that as a reason to end the relationship. You aren't on the same page regarding something you view as important and the troubles will grow from there. good luck and hope this will work out for you all.
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