3 year old,

[jackie0123]

Are all 3 year olds clingy whingy,and want you all for thereselves???
i feel like im attached to mine by the hip,not by choice either.

[specialmom]

Oh gosh, I totally missed that the bio mom has schizophrenia.  

I guess the foster parents do not want to adopt her?  That might be a good situation as they seem very much invested in her and seem to love her.  But then again, that is yet another transition.  

I'm glad that you have stepped up to the plate for this child but I do think she needs much more empathy for what could be going on and supportive care.  good luck

[RockRose]

I'm a little surprised you didn't mention her mother has schizophrenia until now.  

Schizophrenia is hereditary.  A child born to a  mother with schizophrenia has about a 15% chance of having schizophrenia,  and a much higher rate of mental illness and personality disorders in general than the general population,  due to several factors.

Women with schizophrenia are less likely to have sex partners who are free of mental and emotional/personality disorders.

Women with schizophrenia are more likely to use drugs,  alcohol,  eat less well,  and engage in other behaviors that are unhealthy for the developing baby.

This little girl has a double whammy of difficulty to deal with - her mother has a pretty severe mental illness,  and she was removed from a very loving nurturing bonded parent at 10 months of age,  an time when most babies are dealing with stranger  anxieties as a part of normal development.  I don't know whether you were having very frequent (daily) visits with the baby for the months leading up to your getting custody - in which case,  that would have eased the trauma somewhat.

I empathize with your desire to just make her cut this nonsense out with a smack upside the head,  but my guess is she is going to be a very very difficult child who will require a lot of flexibility and energy.

Bless you for being willing to take this on at our age - I don't think I  have the stuff for it.

[specialmom]

Alright.  Well, I don't think there is much more I could offer.  I think that if you don't open your mind to the fact that being shifted from place to place and that perhaps if her being taken was due to drugs---  that she could have a developmental delay or emotional problem.  You just think she is spoiled and wish you could pop her ear for it.  Wishing you luck in the difficult years to come.  peace

[nursegirl6572]

You seem to not want to entertain the possibility that the behavior you're seeing COULD indeed be related to the circumstances of her infancy.

Issues with children can be tough to sort through for sure, and like I already said, it's just good to keep an open mind about things.  If indeed there is more to this than just her getting her way, then you would be wise to address that so there isn't long lasting effects.

[jackie0123]

It did work out,she went there at 3 days old, waiting for me to go to court for guardianship,and for my CRB to come through,they was crying when they had to hand her over to me,and that is why i keep in touch with them.they took her all over, abroad the lot they even invited us to there wedding in scotland all expenses payedand she was the bridesmaid ,they even babysit for her the odd time i go out,they take her and there other foster child to art & crafts kiddy factories the lot,i think she gets her own way and when any 1 dares to take the attention off her,,,then she creates.

[nursegirl6572]

She was moved from the only home and "mother" she knew at 10 months old, while they both may have been loving environments, that kind of change for a baby that young can have lasting effects, and I think we're just advising that you consider the possibility that her behavior stems from her early upbringing.

I'll share with you something that may be relevant to you.  I was adopted, and initially, after birth, I was placed with a foster mother.  Until I was adopted by my parents at about 16 months, life with her was all I knew.  

While my parents couldn't have done a better job with me, reassuring me, etc, I absolutely positively was affected by that big change.  I was extremely clingy and had SEVERE separation anxiety.  I was an anxious child all of my life, and to this DAY I still struggle to manage panic disorder, which all of the mental health professionals I've seen have agreed is probably largely attributed to how I got my "start" in life.  The severe separation anxiety basically blossomed into an anxiety disorder.

Now, I'm not saying that this is the case with your niece, just asking you to stay open minded about the possibility that there is a correlation.  Because if you SEE her continue to demonstrate anxious, clingy behavior, you'd be wise to address it as early as possible.  Anxiety wasn't a very commonly accepted diagnosis/condition when I was little, which really impeded my parents getting me the right help.  They were always told, "it's a stage", "she'll outgrow it".  Well, I outgrew the need to be held by my Mom 24/7, but the emotions are still the same.  In this day and age, there is so much help out there for people who need it, whether it be for anxiety, depression, etc.

It's possible that your niece is just testing the waters, like you said, but don't rule out the possibility that something deeper is going on with her.  Keep a close eye on her.  Good luck!

[specialmom]

Hm,well.  the way kids work is they attach.  She went three days after birth to a foster home that didn't work out and she was separated.  THAT is an issue that would affect a child.  I'd also consider that if she was removed for drugs----  that she could have some affect and developmental issues factoring in.

  She's in daycare every day and to bed by 6:30.  So, that is how many hours you spend with her a day?  And yet she is still bugging you so much?  

I don't know.  To me it sounds like a child that is shuffled around and everyone thinks she is a burden or wants her to be like a doll and quiet.   I imagine she senses this and is acting out.  Wait until the teenage years.   That's when this will get REALLY bad.  good luck  

[jackie0123]

hi like i sed she had a lovely upbringing by a lovely couple who i still keep in touch with,her mother couldnt have her from being born ,due to schizaphrenia,so shes never lived with her mum.then i got her at 10 months old,so shes only ever had her foster mum and me,she is very bright,i dont live with a husband or any one else,she goes to nursery every day mon-friday,i take her to play factories,shes got like a park in my back garden,so shes not got lack of things to do,i read to her play with her with her toys and everything.shes in bed at 6.30 and asleep around 7,I think shes just seeing how far she can push my buttons,and i dont clip her round the ears,,,I said it was easier when mine was growing up as that was the norm then,and thats why i may be finding it hard ,cause i know you CANT do it now,my kids was never like this,but i think it could be that im with her all the time,so wen people come,its like there taking  her attention ,so she creates to get it back.

[jackie0123]

she hasnt had a rocky upbringing,she was born and 3 days later went to a loving foster parent who i still keep in touch with,so its not that,and shes very bright aswell,so i know it aint that

[nursegirl6572]

I couldn't agree with SM more.  It's not at all unusual to see a child be extra clingy and needy who has had a rough start and who is unsure about things like security, routines, and consistency.  THOSE are the things I think you need to be focused on, a strict and rigid routine, reassurance, and building the child's sense of security.  Whatever the circumstances are that brought this child to you, just remember how hard that is on a child.

Oh, and I definitely wouldn't be punishing the child for clingy needy behavior.  It sounds like a fine line with her, and sounds like her behavior turns when she isn't getting immediate results.  I DO believe though a GOOD bit of her behavior could be a result of being fearful.  At that age, you could turn the corner to go into the other room, and the child may wonder if you're ever coming back.  Couple that with her already dealing with not having her parents around....that would lead to one very scared and insecure little girl.

Very best of luck to you with your niece.  It's so great that you've stepped in and are giving her the stability she so desperately needs.

[specialmom]

I personally feel the phone is a beacon of bad behavior.  To this day, my kids come up with things to need me for when on the phone.  They are almost 9 and 10!  I can hold up a finger now and point to the phone and they will handle things for themselves but really think that the issue with her having increased needs when you are on the phone is typical for a 3 year old.  I really do.

I guess what I am saying is that spending 10 to 30 minutes with a 3 year old in the evening reading and then expecting to do your own thing wasn't my life with my kids.  Yes, they get more independent but I still had to supervise and they wanted me 'around' and available if need be.  That age is so active and my boys needed tons of outside play, physical activity, interaction with other kids, etc. that caring for them really was about all I did during those toddler years.  (I did have 2 though, so it was double the responsibility at the same time).  

However, perhaps because she has clearly been through 'something' and is separated from her parents, she is indeed overly needy than what is typical.  (while it is not unusual to want mom (or whomever) when on the phone, maybe it is the level of intensity that she handles it with that concerns you).  I would in all honesty, work with her to build her sense of security to help her out (and you in the long run) with this.  I would try not to make long phone calls when she is around and have a go to plan when you do need a few minutes on the phone.  Heck, I did that with kids that didn't have traumatic events in their life and being displaced out of their home/parents.  Go to plans could be talking to her---  I have to make 1 quick (and make it quick) phone call----  you're fine, you are right beside me and you can do X while I make it.  Also, get others you live with---  your husband for example to help when you must do something without interference.  But she needs her security built for sure, it sounds like.  

good luck

[RockRose]

Jackie,  this behavior you  describe isn't a normal developmental phase.  

I suspect it might be due to her very rocky start in life that she has inappropriate attachment to you.

Can you seek family counseling?  If she's been through the court system to get her assigned to your guardianship,  are there resources you can access for her to help her overcome this?

[jackie0123]

shes my niece really,but i have guardianship of her,and because my grandsons r round her age,and call me nana,she does,so obviously ive never seen a baby cling and be as jellous of me,im 54 so i hope others can see that in my era,we was clipped round the lugs and told to go and play,but oviously you cant do that now,and i find it hard to disepline her, but im loving the help people on ere are suggesting

[jackie0123]

hi i am special guardian to her,i do sit with her every morning afternoon and night,be it 10 mins or half hour reading learning her her abcs which she knows of by heart now,but as soon as i move or start to talk to any 1 or on the phone she starts,i put her in the hallway for time out,she just goes up stairs to play,i fetch her down ,put her bk,then shes sat playing with her toys,or ripping my wallpaper off.even my kids come and then after 10 mins get up and go ,because they cant stand the crying ,demanding and screaming of her.so thats why i came on this site to get help and see if its normal.

[RockRose]

jackie,  my experience with my kids was more like 3 older kids you had.  My 3 year olds were so independent they were difficult.  :(  Walking away from me in parks and not looking back,  insisting on doing things by themselves that were above their ability level,  etc.  ("I do by self" is still a mantra my family says,  and it began at that age when they refused help with tasks).

I think each child is different and it sounds like you've got kids on each end of the spectrum - the first three very independent and the last one very clingy.

[allmymarbles]

It's OK to get angry on occasion. And an emotional response (in addition to being more honest) can be more effective than quiet reasoning, especially with little kiddies.

[specialmom]

In all honesty, try to enjoy it.  It does indeed end and they get more and more independent.  Kids like to spend lots of time with mom.  I would try to set up things right beside me--  I'd put down some coloring pages, books. a game, etc.  And hope to get 10 to 15 minutes of time to do something else.  I'd have things like magnets in a drawer by the frig that I'd get out when I was making dinner so they could sit in front of the frig for 10 minutes playing with magnets on the frig door.  

You are your child's world, so LOVEINGLY (no ear clipping) help guide them to being able to do some things on their own.  

good luck

[jackie0123]

cheers,i think the arguing back is the most annoying ,and tryna tell YOU wat to do,and wont do a thing shes told.when mine was little you could just clip them round the earole,and that would be it,that was 34 years ago.hahahah

[jackie0123]

thankyou for that,i thought i was going mad,and thought she was trying to rule me,i didnt know that 3 year olds did this,although i have 3 grown up kids that r all a year apart,i dontremember them being like that,but there again they had each other to annoy i suppose.

[Sandman2]

    And if you have any other younger or older kids around that she/he has to compete with - it makes it even more difficult.

[allmymarbles]

It's annoying, especially the clingy part, but it will end. You can let him know you are displeased if one episode goes on too long.

[MarkLakewood3367]

Yes.  It would be unusual if they don't behave like this at the age of 3.  Set appropriate limits and this phase will end.  If you don't set limits, these behaviors will continue.