Dealling with Sociopathic symptoms.PLEASE!!

[Dad_of_5_kids]

I am very new to this site, well any site really. I come from a very hard life and doubt I will ever get over the things that have happen. Though now I am faced with some of the most difficult situations I could have ever imagined..

It involves my 9 year old little girl. My wife and I recently found out that she has been abusing her two little sisters. One is 5 and one is 19mos. At first it was such a shock I didn't believe it. And now that it is documented fact, I want to puke. My 9 year old has been though a separation of her parents, watched her mother be abused and used as a sexual toilet, has had physical violence happen to her from her mothers boyfriends, lived with lice for two years, until Social Services was called by myself and the school. I could not get them out any sooner. I had to wait until the moment was right before I made the move to take them. Most states will choose the mother over the father. But I got them and brought them home to Colorado from Joplin, Mo. 2 years before the tornado ripped though and would have killed us has we still been there. Our house was totally destroyed by that tornado. There was no basement or shelter..  We survived all that. I met a woman with two boys. My divorce was finalized and the courts gave me sole custody and all rights concerning the two girls then 3 and 7.  

I got a house and me and Kristen moved in together, merging our two families which had both been though quite a bit. Though we were informed she could never have children again we were content with that having two girls and two boys. The doctors were wrong we found out that Kristen was pregnant with my third girl Holly. And 7 days before my last child was to be born, I got a phone call.. I had to find away to tell my two girls their mother was dead. What was supposed to be one of the happiest times of my life was torn up by their mother getting high and dieing.  Not only that to see my baby girl's faces and the light go out in their eyes when I told them.  I hated myself for having to tell them she was gone. We all cried for a long time.. Now here we are a year and a half later and we just found out that our oldest daughter has been trying to seriously hurt our other two daughters, and has been hurting them since the baby was old enough to crawl, and has been abusing and tormenting out 5 year old since before I got custody. Thank God my 5 year old is a great big sister and finally told us what was going on. Not cause she had been being abused but cause her baby sister was. And to see this brave little girl betraying her older sister that has been bullying her to keep her quiet. Hurting her physically and emotionally since almost birth stood up and told. I am sooooo proud of her.My "Raine"bow Then there is Trina, my first born daughter. My sunshine, and to find these things out almost killed me inside.  There was alot of denial at first but when she finally admitted to these horrible things she let it loose. We found out that not only was she hitting, threatening, total all out bullying her full blood sister, there was not one part of her baby sister that she hasnt slapped, pinched,hit, even headbutted my baby. I was and still am sick to my stomach.. And on top of all that she doesn't feel not one bit of remorse or guilt. Not one shred of conscience. Not one bit of love or compassion. Just ICE cold eyes, and remarks like "Your lucky you found out when you did or Holly would be dead!"  When asked why reply's "She's not my blood!" When asked about her full blood sister she reply's "I didn't want them to have more kids." "She follows me and it annoys me!"   As her father I had no choice her therapist had been getting nowhere. And didn't even have a clue anything this major was going on in our child's head. We got Trina to admit it to the therapist finally. The recommendation was, Keep line of sight move her away from the other kids. So we did we had an office away from the other bedrooms, I put monitors that could pick up the slighted noise, also put things leaned on the door so if she did leave the room at night it would wake everyone..   But she didn't try. But now the cat was out of the bag when I was at work she tormented my wife. Bragging about it. Telling her she wants her and my baby dead and her sister too cause her sister loves Kristen and her baby sister Holly, And she told. After two days of that I took off work early picked her up after school and we went to the ER. Where she told about voices and things that happen to her that I never knew about. Her mom's boyfriend ran her over with his bike. Things that made my blood boil. Lucky for them I haven't heard about anything sexually because if I do Ill be on the first thing smoking back to Joplin to cleanse the earth of those M@#$@#F$#@#$'s!! But anyway the ER agreed there is an issue here. They send her to a mental health hospital for a 72 hour evaluation hold. Which lead to them telling me how great she is an wonderful she has been to the staff and other residents. They even gave her a roommate that wanted to to have a little sister just like her.. They made her so comfortable she didn't want to leave.. Under 72 hours they wanted to release her. Her therapist there was a joke. She didn't listen to half the things we said. My daughter pulled the wool over the eyes of an entire hospital under 72 hours.. Her charm and big blue eyes just blinded them. Her artificial tears even get to me sometimes but I have seen her everyday and this person is not the Katrina she was.
Lies roll off her tongue so fast and without even a seconds notice for hesitation its scary.  So here she separated from her victims, getting pissed. So pissed she said the first chance she gets she will Kill our baby, that's what she thinks about in that room, cause we won't give her things back and her room with her sister back.  I have taken her for a medication evaluation and got another appointment for two weeks.. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?  The bottom line is we can't find any help unless she does seriously hurt or kill someone. Then we have to bury a child and lose the rest for failing to protect them.. There is something wrong here. Our country bails out car makers, banks, other countries but I can't find a hospital for my sick daughter for over 3 days. I can't get help for her unless it means death and or jail? Or my last option Child Protection Services whom doesn't help lives they run them and take kids from loving parents.. Is this all there is for us? The only thing we can do is wait for something horrible to happen???  I lost a 8mos old son to SIDS. IM NOT BURYING ANOTHER CHILD THEY WILL BURY ME!!!

Any advise or thought are welcome PLEASE. We need information on this horrible mental problem that affects 4% of the population.. Is there any hope?

Dad Of 5 Kids

[Babygirl393]

I have to call ********. Parents want all the sympathy for themselves. If you are saying you had no clue please spare me your pity party. You just looked the other way, admit it!!!!!

[Dad_of_5_kids]

We have decided to split the family up for an unknown time. I would not be able to take giving up one of my kids, that pretty much in my eyes means, I failed as a father. Merging two families was going to be difficult at best. With the death of my two girls mother a week before my last child was born was a set up for disaster.  My 9 year old is with her grand parents on her mother's side till I move us into an apartment down the block. She will stay in therapy and we just have to pray that things will work out in time. I am hoping she will see that dad loves her and was not trying to replace her. Though a massive strain will be put on me and my wife, the children have to come first. All of them have had a lot of stress because of this situation. They need time to heal from her too. We just don't know what else to do. We have run out of options.

I don't want any of my kids to hurt inside any longer. I hope my therapist can keep me level enough not to resent my 9 year old, though her forcing me into this position will change our relationship forever. She is no longer my baby girl. I will miss her, and have to learn to live with who she is now.  
Maybe one day she will realize what we lost.

United We Stand, Divided We Fall... I never took time to realize what that meant.  I do now. I pray our family will heal.. Its time I let go, and let God.

Dad of 5 kids,  

[adgal]

I'm not sure if it's the same in the US, but there are circumstances where, if a parent feels a child is a danger to other children or the family, you actually can give the child up into foster care, although typically a group home with kids dealing with similar issues is more likely.  If you feel your child is a danger, then your next move is to contact child protective services.  They may be able to intervene and help.  

I also might suggest a different therapist.  As RR said, knowing the background, it is hard to imagine them being "fooled".  Videotaping is a good idea, but it really shouldn't be necessary.  Reaching out for help with a thorough explanation of the issue should be enough.  Like any other profession you have the good and the bad, so keep trying.  Your story brought tears to my eyes, and I wish you well.

[RockRose]

oops,  getting therapists to believe YOU,  not her.

[RockRose]

Dad,  have you considered the advice of videotaping her?  All it would actually take is an audio tape,  that can be done with a video recorder stuck under a bed or something,  in the "on" position.  I think you can record about 6 hours at a time.  

BTW,  I don't know what advice your therapist gave you,  but it's typical that a child in behavior modification will get worse at first,  testing the limits.  That's pretty typical.  

Are you willing to say what the therapy is that's not working?

BTW,  I don't think you can just "give" your child to foster care.  Kids end up in Foster care when their parents are charged with the crime of abuse or neglect.  There are inpatient facilities that you can pay for but it sounds like you first have to cross the hurdle of getting therapists to believe her.  

I wish I could see these interactions.  Therapists,  as a whole,  are pretty hard to fool with tears and sweetness.

[darknscary]

Getting the 9 year old out of your house was the best thing you could do. They have programs with Foster Theraputic Familys, where people with training take a child for a school year to help the child have a stuctured environment and work thru emotional problems etc.. As a father, your priority has to be to your other children. The 9  year old  may not be able to be helped. Think of things as they concern "the family" and not just the one child. You love them all equally, but how can you help the "MOST".

[Dad_of_5_kids]

I can't prove anything just the word of my 5 year old and her admitting to doing it afterword. Will she do the unspeakable I dont know. As her father I wouldnt ever like to think so. As a father of 5. Cant take the chance. Her therapist has given us horrible advise making her anger worse. I have separated my family until I can get her to a real hospital with residential services is my only option at this point. But I have to go though her know it all therapist who just tells me she has heard much worse, and New Vistas told me unless she does something horrific its not that bad. If she does that means its too late in my eyes.  Abandoning my child or sending her to foster care isnt the right thing. Finding the help she needs is what I have to do. Its becoming impossible to get it for her because she deceives everyone I take her to, and every time I do she gets better at it either with tears or charm. Then when she gets home its Hyde again.

Just getting very tired of the run around and sad cause there are places but I am getting the feeling her therapist rather see another chalk mark of completed on her record then admitting my daughter needs more help then she can give.

[RockRose]

Dad, is there a chance that this isn't true,  or at least isn't true to the extent she is saying?  I can see with the  older child,  maybe she wouldn't cry out,  but a baby would cry out.

The scene you describe just sounds kind of unbelievable.   The baby is happy,  and then suddenly the baby is screaming.  After having been hurt enough to leave bruises that you now realize Katrina caused,  but at the time you thought maybe the baby got them crawling.   You go to the bathroom and the baby is fine,  and then the baby starts screaming and isn't comforted by seeing you when you return - so the baby hasn't been crying for you,  but for a different reason?

Do you see what I'm saying?  I'll say this - stepmoms are usually VERY quick to accuse stepchildren of harming their own babies.  For your wife to not suspect this - is it possible it really wasn't happening as often as Katrina wants you to believe?

Best wishes.

[ku111]

There is no way that your family would be better without you!  You have found out now and are there to help her and your other children.  You have not failed and you have done the best you can.  She is very angry and sometimes this just happens.  You did get her out!  Thank goodness.  Now she needs you again to help with all that is happening.  It is a cry for help or she could have done what she is doing and you might not have known until much later.  You have a chance to continue to help her.  She is young and video taping her and then showing the dr. what she is doing and what she is saying can only help all of you.  Hang in there!  Your family needs you.  Mums the word, she sounds smart so video tape by hiding it.  Keep us updated.  Video tape you and her talking also.  Keep us updated.

[Dad_of_5_kids]

There is plenty of guilt to go around, enough to even doubt myself as a father. When I found out what was happening the first thing I asked was when, how could this happen right under our nose? She replied sharply and coldly. "Any chance I got, when you or Kristen went to the bathroom, making dinner, when Holly was in the high chair eating. Loading in groceries. When ever you were not looking I did it!"  With neither of them having any cuts or massive bruises we attributed it to a baby just learning to crawl, and the 5 year old has always been active, and very loving and full of excitement. These are not signs of continued abuse or am I just a complete failure of a father? I really need to know because if I am them my children will be better off with out me.

[RockRose]

I completely agree with Ku,  you need videotape and it's super easy to do secretly.

It sounds like you've been through a lot of trauma,  and I don't want to add to that,  but I think you really need to hear this warning.  The amount of physical trauma your baby has suffered will be perceived by CPS as a very serious lack of supervision in your home.  That this was happening between the two older girls is a little easier to understand,  but that no one noticed until being  told by a sibling  that Katrina's been beating the baby for more than a year will be a real concern.  That may   be a factor in why Katrina's therapist is unbelieving - to have that level of torment of a baby going on in a home and with neither parent ever hearing or seeing it,  it becomes hard to believe.

Best wishes.  Katrina herself may not remember all the abuse she suffered at the hands of boyfriends - this sounds like serious need for long term therapy.

[ku111]

Although our problems are not the same, a RN gave me some advice and maybe it will help you if I pass it along.  She told me to video tape and then show the dr. what we have recorded.  I am so sorry this is happening.  I can't imagine the pain and fear you must have for all involved.  Your daughter sounds like she is very angy and I am not sure what all has happened to her and she might not either at this point.  She is definately crying for help.  Hang in there.  Try video taping when she does not know and showing what is going on.  She needs help.  You are right, why must it get so drastic to get help.  I don't know.  Keep going until you get her help.  This is the best for all of you.  Bless her heart and bless all of yours.  I am wishing you all the very best.