By the way, I want to mention that we love her more than anything and we will do ANYTHING within our power and beyond to help her get through this. Sometimes I look at her sleeping (not raging) and it brings tears to my eyes because I love her so much. Please know she is a great child, and her tantrums are not what we judge her by.
The good thing about this is she is VERY clear what's going on. She can control it, but she feels terrible rage and the only way to feel better is to throw a huge tantrum, and she can control the time and place where that occurs, mostly.
I think you need to look into Juvenile Diabetes, and don't take the results of one blood sugar test, or the fact that she lacks many symptoms, as a "no" answer.
I have a friend who has a son that sounds VERY much like your daughter (he's in college now) and was diagnosed when he was about 10. Leading up to that diagnosis, he was very similar to your daughter.
The fact that the combination of meds isn't helping much is a strong indicator they haven't reached the problem.
I think you should insist on a full testing for diabetes, and also look up a diabetic diet and put her on that and see if it makes a difference. The key is to avoid blood sugar fluctuations.
Maybe some child/ parent interaction classes may also help here not just counselling for the child ...
Thanks Margypops. We do the counseling with her sometimes too.
I love Rock Roses! I have one in my front yard!
Thanks for responding. I think you have a good point. I am going to look into this.
She will not eat much....like a bird. Definitely, the fits are WAY worse from not eating too.
Thanks for writing. I appreciate it.
Another possibility - personality disorders are hard-wired but often co-morbid with anxiety and mood disorders. Many children are diagnosed with ADD/ADHD or ODD due to the fact that personality disorders are usually not "labelled" until adulthood. I might suggest you google the phrase "personality disorders" or "personality disorders in children" or similar words/phrases to see if these descriptions remind you of your child. I hope RockRose is correct - a physical health condition and that I am wrong - a mental health condition. Here's wishing ....
Has she had strep throat at one time? Many kids who have PANDAS sound like your child. You may want a strep culture done. It is a neuropsych disorder brought on when strep crosses the brain barrier and the brain becomes inflaimed. The kids are very difficult to manage. Sometimes extreme seperation anxiety or compulsions and tantrums. My son has been suffering from this and meds really don't help much. Also if the meds you are on are not working they could be doing the opposite effect making her worse. We were on abilify and it helped at first but then he got worse and worse despite our upping the dose to 15 mg. Then we stopped and went to risperdal and he is seeming better. But work with a child psychiatrist on the meds. They need to be constantly monitered and adjusted. Keep a behavior log and log every single tantrum with a rating 1-3 and a cause and consequence and how long the fits lasted. Then take this to your psychologist. That way you can all get an accurate account of why the fits are happening and how long and how they reacted to the consequence. My son also has aspergers which causes alot of behavior issues. He is smart too and holds it together at school. It is so hard. I feel for you. Don't try to reason with her during the tantrum. Just follow through on the consequence everytime. Don't ever give in. Time out in the room away from you. Ignore the parents who stare. They have no clue what you are going through. I have lost neighbors friendships on account of my son's behaviors but that is not anything to care about. Just do your best and don't worry about what ohers think. Believe me they can't understand.
do the diabetes workup, not a bad idea. Frist of all you are VERY strong people to deal with this. I think it is terrible that people with challenging children are looked down upon and not give good support. They dont' realize what we all go through and esp. you. I am sorry. I wish I had better advice, but you might need to think outisde the box does her behavior have cyclical patterns?
I actually found this by accident...I completely understand what you are going through. I have a 7 year old son who has that type of tantrum...it was worse when he was around the ages of 5-6 and has considerably calmed down over the last year. It is extremely embarassing when the cops show up at your door because of nosy neighbors, but I also understand where they are coming from. Screams so loud that they about break your ear drums, hitting and kicking. My son is also extremely intelligent (early reading, and math skills). We have wanted to take him to a child developement clinic because of these issues. My husband has ADHD and I have anxiety issues. We have noticed multiple symptoms relating to different things, anything between ADHD and Asberger's. When you say your daughter is smart, what type of smart? Reading? Math? I also noticed my son has a HUGE and over active imagination along with a photographic memory. His comprehension is amazing and has now tested to be above 3rd grade reading level and reads 120+ words per minute. It seems especially at night that his poor little brain won't shut off and these tantrums just seem to be the outlet. I have found that during these tantrums you have to remain extremely calm and talk them down. Make her face you and focus on you. Talk softly and slowly. Ask her what the problem is and explain it to you. I know most people won't like this answer, but try to hold back on the punishing. I know I wouldn't like this answer either, but this has truly helped with the tantrums. I hope this helps at all. Let me know if it does. Remember each child is different and what works for some may not work for others. I came upon this by accident. I also have a 4 1/2 yr old daughter who won't go pee consistently on the toilet. :)
P.S. the diabetic testing is a great idea too. Make sure they do an a1c level along with the blood sugars. My husband was diagnosed with type 2 a little over a year ago with no symptoms at all. He is very healthy and not overweight.
also maybe have a blood test to check her thyroid gland and adrenal glands,plus a scan to look at her kidneys as the adrenal glands sit on top of the kidneys. It has been known for children to have small non-cancerous tumours on the adrenal glands which can cause adrenaline to serge into the bloodstream causing massive anxious, panicky, angry outbursts just like you describe. It may just be the reason as to why she can not control herself.
Some blood tests can come back within a 'normal' range due to this range being fairly broad so if the test does come back within 'normal' range i personally would demand a scan to have a good look at her kidneys. If there is a tumour normally a simple operation to remove it will make the world of difference.
I really do hope a soultion is found soon as it sounds like such a horrible situation to be in, she is lucky to have such dedicated parents who love her so much and are willing to do anything for her. God bless and let us know if anything is found.
Sounds somewhat like my son about a year ago
My son did a the "screaming when I pick him up" thing at daycare a year or so ago - whenever dad picked him up he would bring a treat/take him to have ice-cream....so he would demand dad to pick him up at all times....In fact in the beginning of school year he asked his teacher whether his dad will be picking him up - and when teacher said it will be me - he threw a tremendous tantrum. When I picked him up he was happy and smiling and fine. I still had a call from social worker and I had to attempt to explain as to why my son threw a tantrum about me picking him up.....He probably had a good audience, too.....If she has ADHD/ODD traits - probably keeping a pickup similar at all times works....For my son - in the beginning of the year he would bring a stuffed toy with him in the car, strap it in his booster seat when he leaves, then when dad picked him up - his "friend" was there as well.......
In general, rituals, rules, and similarity helps with a lot of this panic-anxiety....
Couple of things can influence his proneness to tantrums
1) If you expect him to throw a tantrum, he will throw a tantrum. His "worst" was when Dad was terrified of him throwing tantrum in public - and he did it every time. He has a keen ability to pick up on anxiety and will do exactly what you expect him to do.
2) When he is bored/disorganized, he gets irritable. He has trouble with figuring out what to do - so he would wander around - I usually try to find something entertaining for us to do...I can relate to this one - I HAVE to do something very weekend
3) When he is overstimulated. Lights, sounds, screaming kids, what have you. I try to limit activities involving loud noises/too much unexpected movement to one a day (on school nights, we keep it low since he is experiencing noise/movement all day at school). Structure, schecules, and planning the day helps tremendously
4) Food. And the top offender is........drumroll.....blue coloring.....red is close second.....MSG is a kicker, too.....Since I've started him on a "clean" diet - costs pretty penny but worth it - a lot less obsessions and violent outbursts...less noise sensitivity
5) Sensory stuff - jumping, climbing, rolling in a blanket, squishy hugs, roughhousing - all helps tremendously......Heavy work, pulling, pushing, etc
The fact that she does ok at school is a good sign - for my son the worst was school - beause they could not figure out how to deal with him (as he can be very dramatic)
Now they have figured it out seems like anyway
Good luck do not get down she is only 6; you do not know what future holds; people learn throughout their lifetime. I also choose not to care about people staring - people need to get a life/look at something more entertaining than a tantruming child....The ones that find it entertaining - well I feel sorry for them...
As for "well behaved children" I ran into outright sociopathic types who traumatized my sensitive child by roaring at him in a dark corner. He, to this day, will not play with boys, and will not go near a child that makes a roaring noise. They knew he was terrified of it. But on the outside - they were the sweetest, most compliant, smiling children who were eager to please their parents...Always wanted attention of every adult in sight..So you never know where you gonna end up:)
I think children like ours feel more than others, that is why it may be so hard to cope.....My son's brain cells fire with incredible speed at all times (I can relate, I am sure you can, too:), he gets obsessed with things....he has photographic memory and vivid imagination....he may start thinking about a toy while at school, by the time I pick him up there is a whole thing going in his head concerning this toy, it is almost real....oops...not there really......hard to cope.....
I've read that between 6 and 7 brain undergoes serious "sorting" activity, where the "sides" take on more of "roles" and things get "de-cluttered"
Goo luck by all means:)
Yeah i agree diet is a massive one, all the additives, preservatives etc.... MSG is so bad for kids, can send them potty. Try cutting out all the sugary, additive laden foods and give her things like carrot sticks to munch on and cut up fruit...etc
Plus if she is is behaving at school but not home then she can control herself but realises that by acting this way she gets whats she wants at home. If both you and your husband are placid in nature and wants anything for a quiet life then her acting like this will get her all she wants from the pair of you.
I think that maybe, and i mean this in the kindest possible way, parenting classes would be the first thing to do instead of taking her to therapy. Nine times out of ten the problem lays with the techniques of the parent and not at all with the child.
The only thing I would disagree with - behaving at school vs. home and that she gets away with things at home....not necessarily
For kids with ADHD/explosive temperament/chemical imbalances it is extremely hard to get through the school day, with all the stimulation....so once they get home they can "meltdown" in a big way, to let out all the frustration of the day
It is important for children to be comfortable with anger and be able to let it out in approprate manner....Unfortunately, in a western culture, anger is a "forbidden" thing, and focus is on "how not to get angry" instead on "how to experience it"....
Another thought - how about ...playing? When my son is irritable and angry after school for no apperent reason - we get out all the stuffed "friends" and play "school" - usually the issue surfaces thought the play
OMG !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I feel like Im reading about my son. Hes turning 8 in June and Hes been diagnosted with OCD, but theres a sensory issue there as well.
All the discriptions you made about her tantrums happening only at home and not in school is exactly what my son does to us.
The hitting is only done to us,
I have tried medications but unfortunatly they dont agree with him to well. It makes him more aggressive and angry, in addition, he gets massive nose bleeds.
We are at a loss right now too. Hes in phyciatry therapy now and i took him off all meds. Im looking into a holistic approach. I found a vitamin called Inositol. Its Vitamn B8. Check it out. Only problem is, they have no doses listed for children. Im going to ask the Dr. what she thinks. On the other hand, Im taking it for myself. I will be the guinnie pig. I am loosing my freekin mind. I cant stand when hes raging and theres nothing I can say or do to help him.
I feel like sometimes its behavioral and then his OCD kicks in.
He feels dirty after going Number 2 in the bathroom . He ripped his butt apart by wiping so much. Hes not comvinced its clean enough. So i have to put a ointment on to heal the burn and then hes freeking out because it feels wet.
Thats where the Sensory issues come in.
Its taking a tole on our marrage. we only have the one child but we cant open our windows on a beautiful day bcause we are affraid the neighbors will think what the hells goin on in that house.
He is always telling me he wants to hurt me and Kill me.
Me more than his dad.
Trust me, I feel your pain and know exactally what your going through.
If you find out anything, please let me know and I will do the same for you.
please email me if you want to. I would love to connect. It sounds like we have a lot in common.
And, to those who say our daughter is freaking out on us because we give her what she wants and they will not at school.....um NO. She never gets what she wants by acting out.
She is winding up tighter and tighter at school all day and is holding it in to not get in trouble....her sensory issues are building and building all day long with the noise, and her lack of eating her lunch...and by the time i pick her up she is a screaming, hitting mess...and DOES IT FROM THE SECOND SHE SEE;S ME or my husband ALL OF THE WAY THROUGH THE HALLS and for NO REASON that is obvious.
Thanks for the parenting class advice but unfortunately, this is the same offensive thing we get from parents of typical children who do not have a CLUE all of the time.
We are older parents...waited a long time for this baby...well educated...too many parenting books on the shelves...been advised for years by a therapist on child rearing...been advised by my parents who raised 4, and my sister who raised 3...but NONE were like our daughter and what works for typical kids DOES NOT WORK for ADHD/ODD Mood Disorder kids.... 85 of 100 kids will do what an adult tells them to do....my girl is one of the 15. with ODD..and she has been sent to the principal's office already 3 times in a few months IN KINDERGARTEN...so i guess she is not holding it together at school that well after all.. So what i am saying is that your "advice" for us taking parenting classes is just one more insensitive comment from someone who thinks they know it all and really they know nothing about the subject.
It is officially dx as CHILDHOOD BIPOLAR and since we finally found a great doc, she is doing sooo much better with the correct meds.
Please, anyone else dealing with similar stuff....take your kid to a good child psych. It can save their lives.
Childhood Bipolar has a higher mortality rate than some childhood cancers. Therapy, and time outs and parenting books do not help. It is a brain chemistry issue and these kids need help.
Thank you for sharing! What meds are working? Zoloft?
I agree with Michele223. We did not find out til our daughter was in the 5th grade that she had Aspergers. We had every diagnoses from ADHD to bipolar, but no doctor wanted to tell us to look into autism spectrum disorders. This makes since she has limited trouble at school. School is routine and structured. They thrive on structure. Change the routine and you have atter chaos!!!! A squirt bottle with water may help, when she goes in total tantrum squirt her, the shock of it may get her attention. I also try taking my child out of the situation. People thought i was taking her to the restroom to spank her, nope, i went in there and we washed our hands and calmly talked her down and took our time. All I can say is she is a senior in high school and it has been a long road. but she drives, she is an A students, stil a bit moody, even for a teenager, but it will get better once you find a wonderful doctor to get some help:) Good Luck!
Also I made a printout for her daily activites and laminated it so she could check it off with an expo marker. example: eat breakfast, brush your teeth, get dressed, watch sponge bob, put on socks, put on shoes, etc. and in order.Don't laugh it did work and now she only takes one pill, Gotta be consistent and it takes ALOT of time and patience..:)