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Avatar universal

Manipulative 8 year old son

What should I do with my 8 year old son who is manipulative, lier, and 2 cases of dcf ?? I need
help . Everything begun when he was bord but dident know that there was something wrong g with him .. He has the habit of eating so so much where his stomach was literally exploding , would drink so much to where his eyes will pop out .. Back in 2011 he was removed by the state for one year .. When giving back they told me there was nothing wrong with him . He came back worse , he is now 8 and the size of a 3 year old . Diagnosed with ocd, aggressive behavior , bipolar disorder , and now taking growth hormone injections . He is in first grade and his grades are poor . He lies and manipulates the teachers and tells them that I don't feed him . That I do t let him do anything.. So the school calls dcf I now have another case open because of him .. He always makes me look bad in front of anybody and everybody . He steals out of the tea hers purse . The kids lunch boxes . He ways out of the trash of the ground and his answer is that he's hungry . He tells his brothers that he is going to kill them . That he's gonna **** the
Up he does that at school too .. He pees on the bed , in the air vents . He has even pooped before and denied doing it but he spread te poop around his room . I clearly understand that there is something wrong with him , doctors think it's something genetic but insurance will not cover that .. Iam between 2 walks becauE I feel so down , and i dese for my kids . I canto trust him , everyone else thinks he is so sweet and nice but they don't really know the real him .. He knows how to manipulate anybody and gets his ways a snakes other believe him .. The worse part is when dcf comes he loves to talk to them and thinks it's okay for him to do that . My other 2 kids 9 and 6 fear of them and know exactly who they are .. They have been photographed and everything.. I feel at this point that maybe the best thing to do is give him up to the state . But then I think about my other 2 . If I do that will I loose custody of my other kids Iam scared . But at the same time i fear for my life . My familiy my kids we need a life to live happy not miserable .. Iam confused and fusterated . Someone please help me .. Any advice ????
15 Responses
134578 tn?1602101550
Talk to a family law attorney about your concerns that you would lose custody of the other two children based on what happens with your son.  Get a hidden camera if you can, to film him, so people will not think you are lying when you tell your side of the story.  Talk to a counselor or minister for emotional help.  Sorry, that's all I can think of.
Avatar universal
Yes I have videotaped him but unfortunately I lost that one phone I used , now I have to do it again . I've spoken to the father to our church and they tell me that it's wrong for me to give him up . But that if he's causing so much troble they consider me to get him all the help which I have already done and it just gets worse and worse . I already have an attorney but I haven't asked him about it becaUs I'm scared ..
189897 tn?1441126518
COMMUNITY LEADER
   Besides legal help - you need better medical help.   For a doctor to say there is no insurance coverage for something is genetic is BS.   Most psychological disorders are genetic and they can be covered if diagnosed.
   You say he was label bipolar - yet I saw no mention of the dominate bipolar symptom of "Mania".  What I saw was a number of ADHD symptoms.   Here is a link showing the differences.  
           http://www.currentpsychiatry.com/home/article/adhd-or-bipolar-disorder-age-specific-manic-symptoms-are-key/2e1d5ec4615c5b9da40d435fca5f560c.html
    This brings up a whole different set of questions.  I assume he is on some type of medication?  If you don't mind sharing - what meds is he on?
     The wrong meds (like for bipolar, if he is not bipolar) will make him worse, not better.   Or not having a strong enough dose will cause him to act differently at school then at home.
     I also wonder if he has had his thyroid levels checked?   That would explain his growth problems as well as some of his behavioral problems.
    Finally, he school should be doing more.  He should be evaluated for special education so he can get more help from them.
    
Avatar universal
Yes he's taking medication , Ritalin and can't remember the other one becauE its been changed several times but it's used for ocd . He has special help in school to help him but yet his grades are poor . Yes he was diagnosed with bipolar , manic ,, doesn't have no remorse of the bad things he does . Including hiding knifes under the couch , and then saying someone else gave it to him . And we are working for insurance and Doctor so they can get the genetic testing done .. Thanks for the links , but I have already looked into ever single one of them ..
Avatar universal
He's been checked in his thyroid and everything one the books ..
189897 tn?1441126518
COMMUNITY LEADER
   do find out the name of the other med.  If its Prozac or Paxil, that is not good because it can block the pathways for the Ritalin and allow it to back up and cause all kinds of problems.   And, ya, you should always know the names of meds so you can look them up for side effects.
   Another thought on meds is that docs always start out low and go slow waiting for parental feedback.  Ritalin is good for 4 hours max.  the SR version is good for 5 to 8 hours.   Ritalin is a good med, but the Adderall type meds can be more effective for some people and can last much longer.  Point being, his meds could be running out before he gets home.   That can be changed.   In fact, from what you have said, it doesn't sound like they are working at school very well either.  Have you talked with his doc about his problems at school and asked about a medication increase?
Full chart on meds here -  http://www.leeheymd.com/charts/adhd_1.html
     Another thought is that it sounds like he has a pretty high metabolism rate if he is always hungry.  If that is true, the normal dose of meds will burn through him much sooner then for a normal kid with regular rates.
     He should have a 504 or an IEP at school.  If he doesn't, they are not helping him as much as they could be.
     I would expect him to do poorly in school.  You can not make up for several years of lost time overnight.
    Having no remorse for the things he has done is not unusual for ADHD kids or bipolar for that matter.  But, it does help to know what he has.  Did you look at the link I sent you.  It gives very specific guidelines for each one.  You have to know what he has got for correct treatment.
    Since he is taking Ritalin - I would assume somebody thinks he has ADHD (you don't take Ritalin if you are bipolar - well, unless you have both maybe).  Has anybody mentioned the ADHD thing to you.  Because there is a lot of resources for parents to help them deal with ADHD kids.  
    A good example is this link
             http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/10594.html
   and this site has tons of useful information to make all of your lives easier.  I am also the CL on the ADHD site here - http://www.medhelp.org/forums/ADD---ADHD/show/175
       and I use the site I just mentioned alot for very specific aids for parents and kids.
       Finally, if he is 8 and the size of a 3 year old.  That has got to be a very difficult thing to deal with.  He has got to come home from school every day feeling very defeated.  And if he is doing badly at school, that makes it even worse.   He really probably needs psychological counseling to help him through all of this.  Is he getting any?
    
Avatar universal
You are correct , I checked the names in the meds because like I said they have been changed serval times so the ones he's on now are new but on of them is Ritalin and the other is abilify I have both .. He is on a 504 plan in school and I believe they are trying to put him in another plan that is available . Iam also taking hi to a phychological therapy. And ur Rigth maybe the doze is to low for him Iam going to ask the doctor about that . I also have a 9 year old with adhd and he is so sweet and lovable , I can not even compare them with the same symptoms.. When I say my son is cruel mean I really mean it . I mean there's some things I could not even mention on here just to protect myself I'd say . But u have been very helpful thank you so much
Avatar universal
ADHD is something different my Sonia now where near of the symptoms and is not hyper at all.. He doesn't even like to play outside or do anything fun with his other brothers .. He can sit on the couch the entire day just watching you to see what you wil do so he can then plan what he's going to do .. His main issue is the food ,, pscaiatry said that he has an obsession with food he has all the symptoms of prader willi syndrome he has bite been tested for that yet ! Even tho he has his lunch in school he turns around and trucks another teacher that he hasent ate and then he gets his way and he keeps doing it over and over .. The sad part is that the teachers and principle are not really on my side .. They are no help at all in that way I had to get doctor notes saying that they need to keep an eye on him because of the issue .. Iam afraid that one day he will overfed himself and die from it .. He's done it before and he's gotten sick .. On top of all that he has food allergies and that makes it even worse .. It's to much on my plate and sometimes I forget to care for my other 2 .. And I feel terrible sometimes .. But with dcf on top of me makes it even more worse .. So I believe that give my Rigths up as a parents and maybe someone else can give him all the help he needs would be better . I'm not saying I'm not helping but I have done almost everything he needs . And still things look bad . Before in the middle of the night he would get up and empty out my entire frig . Wake up in the morning with vomit all over him and pooped all over .. At first I dident realize it because our rooms are so far apart . All my kids have there own room . So I was forced to put a lock on the outside just so he won't get out so I could also sleep in peace .. Even like that he pulls the door so hard at nights that he has broken several locks already and yes he is very small . And he keeps thinking he's a baby wear clothes in a size of 4t Iam just trying to do what's best for my other two and to keep the. Safe ..
Avatar universal
Sorry for some of the misspelled words !
189897 tn?1441126518
COMMUNITY LEADER
      I do feel for you.  You have a lot on your plate.  The food thing is interesting.  ADHD kids do have food problems.   Sometimes its because the meds reduce their appetites and when the meds wear off they are extremely hungry.   I have seen several posts from parents whose kids are raiding the fridge at night because of this.   And just the reverse is also true.  Because of ADHD they have no impulse control and binge eat.   A few links on this are below:
         http://www.additudemag.com/adhd-web/article/2032.html
         http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/11628.html
    Hopefully, if you can get the right medication going, it will make a difference in all your lives!    So push that with your doc.  Realize it will take some trial and error.   This link gives some basics on that - http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/905.html
     Man, I find it hard to believe that DFC would give you a hard time.  You sure seem to be trying everything possible.
    Hope this new info helps.
13167 tn?1327194124
Anna,  I'm having a hard time understanding everything.   If he's eating all that much food,  and he's the size of a 3 year old at the age of 8,  he has a very serious physical/metabolic issue that might be the first thing that needs to be addressed.  When CPS sees a child who is eating out of the garbage and begging for food,   and he's off the charts tiny,  it raises an enormous red flag.

I'm also concerned about you saying everyone thinks he so sweet and he's manipulative,  but it seems to me few people could see him that way.

I agree with Sandman that you need more help than you're getting,  from a pediatrician and a family attorney.  But I don't think you can release one child and say you want to kind of "rehome" him,  and keep your other two children who are easier to manage.  I just don't think it works that way.

Best wishes getting some answers.  I'm just kind of confused.
189897 tn?1441126518
COMMUNITY LEADER
   He apparently is on growth hormones which explains (I guess) the size.   I would think that any child who is going through what he is - would have a lot of issues.
Avatar universal
Hi, anacristal3,
Have they investigated the possibility of Prader-Willi Syndrome?  These kids are usually short in stature, have voracious appetites, and very often have behavioral/cognitive issues. It may be something for you to bring up with the doctor.  Here's a link that has a little more info: http://www.pwsausa.org/

Also, if he's bipolar, the ADD meds may be too stimulating and causing agitation.
189897 tn?1441126518
COMMUNITY LEADER
      Miracleair has a very good point (thank you Miracleair),  He really does sound like he has all the symptoms of Prader-Will Syndrome.   I think you said he has not been tested for that yet?  Prader would explain a lot.  Also, due to that, he could have been incorrectly identified with ADHD.  I suppose he could have both.  But if he does not actually have ADHD, the ritalin could be making him worse.
    The link  that Miracleair provided is excellent.  http://www.pwsausa.org/
I noticed that the Prader-Willi Syndrome Association (the group in the link) is based in Flordia and that the University of Florida is doing some excellent research with some new medications for this.  This group also supplies links that doctors can use and even give advice for legal action.
    So definitely worth checking out.  It could explain a lot!  Keep in touch.  Good luck!!!
13167 tn?1327194124
It does sound like Prader Willi, but she does mention he's been tested for that already.  

It wouldn't hurt to get a second opinion.
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