Problems with 7.5 yr old boy at school and home

[home60]

My son is 7.5 yrs old and was placed in the 3rd grade this past Nov (should be in 2nd) because he excels academically. Also note that we transfered him and his younger brother from catholic school to public school. He is fun and outgoing however can be annoying NOT a behavior problem. We travel, go to dinner, etc with no problems!!! He plays well with others 99% of the time but oftens tends to display the Alpha Male role and want to be in control. Since April his teacher has observed a behavior change in school: distrupts class calls out answers, gets up without permission, sings to himself, etc whatever. He is remosresly and promises not to do it again, but sure enough it happens. He has also talked back to adults and doesnt seem to be scared of punishment. At home we have bickering about going to be on time, telling him he cant play ball in the house (and such) and he does it anyway. So its this "I'm sorry and I wont do it again" back & forth stuff.
Socially he is having trouble in school. He has been the subject of bullying as its a pretty rough crowd - the teacher is aware and tries to intervene but my son is caught between fighting back or becoming a target.
We dont know what to do. I need him to understand that one thing (trouble with kids) doesnt give him reason to distrupt class and act out. Punishing him by taking away toys, priviledges does not work anymore (not long term).
Please help!!!!

[Sandman2]

    I think keeping him in 3rd for all subjects is a good idea.  Lets him get his feet back on the ground.  I think that it will also make a difference with the bullying problems - but I would keep an eye on it early at the start of the year.  There are lots of ways to supplement his education if it is needed.  Actually, the best way is to become a helper.  Glad to hear things are working out.

[home60]

Hi
I want my son in 3rd grade next yr for all of his subjects, nothing in 4th. He will be 8 this august and I want him to be around his age group. His teacher really praises him academically and tries to sheild him from the other bullies so to speak. We keep talking to him at home and watching his behaviors. The school didnt explain anything!!! Thanks

[Sandman2]

   Ya, I really thought a lot had to do with school placement and him being intelligent.  Didn't quite understand what you meant by "not going to allow that".  Was that going up to  4th or staying in third?  By the way, the school should have explained all of this to you when he was enrolled.   Thanks for the feeback, I was wondering how things were going.  :)

[home60]

Well yes the other 2nd grade class was full!!! Hit the nose on that one and they didnt skip a grade per say -- next year he will be in 3rd grade and go to fourth for the subjects he excels in however I am not going to allow that!!!!! Yes there are children who are 2 yrs older and its very hard for him. As for ADD I have heard this before but had never had him tested because his teachers didnt feel it was necessary - he can be focused, and concentrate very well and we dont see any  ADD symptoms at home or anywhere else. And yes he is a master at manipulation and we are working on it. We are changing our discipline strategies and getting more activities. This year because of the new school and load of work he had no after school activities, other than playground play and he use to do it all, baseball, karate, etc. So that is a major issue. I am home with my boys over the summer and will be able to get a better picture andhave more to say about the schools placement for next Septmeber!!!! Thanks for all of the great advice! He is a great kid but very sensitive and alot of his plate!

[Sandman2]

    Boy, you think bullying is bad now, wait till he is in fifth grade as a 9 year old and all the other boys are 11. Or in tenth grade and the boys are starting to drive and he still has two more years.  What was the school thinking! ????  You don't move a kid up a grade cause he is smart.  However, I'd bet a little money that since you came into the school in Nov., the 2nd grade classes were full, and this was their solution.  What ever the reason, it is wrong and now I think you are starting to see some of the consequences.  And yes, he probably can tough it out through elementary school, but middle school and high school could be horrible.
  I don't think it is ADD/ADHD as that usually shows up sooner than April.  However, if I remember the third grade curriculum - math does began to get progressively harder the second part of the year.  If his intelligence allowed him to skate through private school, he may now be really starting to have problems if he has ADD.  Of course, he could be having problems because he skipped a year of math.  But this is easily checked.  How is he doing grade wise - particularly in math?   I don't want to say its not ADD, because some of the symptoms - continually doing the same things that get him into trouble would point that way.  
  The point being is that I think his school placement is really beginning to affect him.  Not only the bullying.  I am guessing that now he is basically doing attention getting activities in the classroom.  He used to be the Alpha male, and now he is the little kid.  What scares me is that if he is intelligent, he will start using that intelligence to find ways to get back on top - and then you may have a real problem.
  You said, "I need him to understand that one thing (trouble with kids) doesnt give him reason to distrupt class and act out."  I think it is more than just one thing.  And how else is a 7 year old going to react.  Have you given him any other tools - or just told him to ignore everything.  Guess what something is not working.  If his home behavior also started around this time, you know these things are connected.  If he has always been like this at home, than you seriously need to change your discipline practices.  Its certainly is not to late.
   Getting to home discipline briefly.  Intelligent kids learn quickly how to manipulate.  One of the best tactics is the "I don't care about punishment."  It really messes up an adults mind.  Really he still is at an age where immediate punishments work best.  That is the immediate timeout.  He runs in the house - timeout.  Be extremely consistent.  Even if he has something like ADD, this will change that behavior.  And at his age long term punishments still won't work (and I can guarantee you if he has ADD/ADHD, they  definitely won't work!).  
  So what to do?
First,   Might be worth getting the book, "The ADD/ ADHD Answer book," by Susan Ashley.  I think the school is a huge factor, but it could be the perfect storm both things coming together at a horrible time for your son.
Second, is there another elementary school close to you?  I'd check it out, if there is.
Third, you need to ask his teacher if she thinks any of this is due to age and placement.  If she has experience at this grade level, she should have some pretty good ideas of what is going on, and she sounds like she is trying to help.  If she believes any of this is placement, then you (or you and her) need to talk to the principal.  You need to let him know what is going on,  and see how big second grade is and if there will be room again in the third grade for your son.  Its not good to hold a kid back at this age.  Even worse to do it at his own school (teasing etc), but I think it will be a lot worse later on if he continues.  
Fourth, (if I am right about this being at least partially caused by his school placement), you need to watch for further signs of stress.  I like the idea of activity after school.  He actually probably needs a little slack cut at home - which is maybe hard because of what he is doing at home.
      Really, this all comes down to figuring out what is going on.  You can't treat the problem if you don't know what the problem is!    Frankly, its a bit of a mess and getting messier.   If its just a matter of discipline, that can be pretty easily fixed - but there are a couple of things that discipline won't fix.  The sad thing is that (if I am correct), most of this is not his fault.  The adults got him into this and now they have got to figure out a way to get him out.    
    If you think I am off base thats ok, The fixes will be a lot easier and I will be glad to share.  If any of this makes any sense, and I can be of more help please post.

[specialmom]

Hm.  Your boy is REALLY young for 3rd grade.  My son with a December birthday started kindergarten on time and is 6.5 right now.  He'll be your son's age in 1st grade and he is middle of the pack in terms of birthdays.  This is really something to consider.  

Add/adhd sounds like it could be at play but what really throws me off is that you only have seen it this year.  Typically kids with adhd show up much much earlier.  And ADD kids, you've seen something by the age your son is.  But, if a teacher suggests having him evaluated, I'd say that you should go ahead and do it.  He may need movement breaks to maintain himself or water bottle (s ucking is soothing) breaks.  Also, physical activity outside of school is directly related to behavior so I would amp it up a bit.  Hit a park after school or get a game of soccer going.  

But I would really think about how much younger he is.  Academics aren't everything . . . especially for a boy.  Good luck

[Frogmasta]

Get your child tested for ADD. My brother also has the same EXACT disposition and  was diagnosed with ADD. If your son is a very smart child, but gets into trouble a lot at school, you need to make sure that the teacher is not just nit picking at all of the small things that he does. As for not listening at home, I recommend a book called "1,2,3 Magic". It helped my parents a lot when my brother was little. Hope this helped!

[RockRose]

I am never a fan of moving children up a grade,  no matter how academically gifted they are.  

A boy can not compete with boys a year older (and sometimes two years older,  some have been kept back at home a year to mature and didn't enter school on time).  

It sounds like he is unable to keep his head above water socially - a 7. 5 year old can't compete with nine year olds even though academically he is doing well.

Can you put him back with kids his own age?

Best wishes.