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Serious Potty training issues... Help
To: Anyone who can HELP!!!!
First off I would like to start with....I brought my daughter to the Dr. she was cleared of any medical condition, so she is fine. However, she will not stop what she is doing to go pee. We (Husband and I) and her teachers tell her to go every half hour and still she pees in her pants now up to 4-6 times a day. We have never had a problem with BM. She has not had a BM accident since she was 2. She has have never been potty trained at night... Which is fine I know she is only 4 1/2 wich can be normal. We have tried ever kind of reward, punishment. ignoring it, talking about it until we are blue in the face and nothing works.. We have her in panties and have a reward chard and literally nothing has worked... I know 99% of these accidents are preventable and 1% are truly accidents and we just don't know what to do anymore... Lossing toys, getting rewards, praise praise and more encouragement ...HELP nothing works!!!!! We know she can do it!!! She has pulled it together for months at a time then we end up back at square one.. Everytime with no visible trigger as to why she always regresses. back to her peeing in her pants up to 4-6 times a day.. All she will tell you is I didn't want to stop what I was doing, or I don't know why...We have tried any and every type of motivation and encouragement. We have been working on this since she 18 months old when she started to show an interest.... HELP!!!!!!! Does anyone have anything that has worked...
Crying Mom!!!!
First off I would like to start with....I brought my daughter to the Dr. she was cleared of any medical condition, so she is fine. However, she will not stop what she is doing to go pee. We (Husband and I) and her teachers tell her to go every half hour and still she pees in her pants now up to 4-6 times a day. We have never had a problem with BM. She has not had a BM accident since she was 2. She has have never been potty trained at night... Which is fine I know she is only 4 1/2 wich can be normal. We have tried ever kind of reward, punishment. ignoring it, talking about it until we are blue in the face and nothing works.. We have her in panties and have a reward chard and literally nothing has worked... I know 99% of these accidents are preventable and 1% are truly accidents and we just don't know what to do anymore... Lossing toys, getting rewards, praise praise and more encouragement ...HELP nothing works!!!!! We know she can do it!!! She has pulled it together for months at a time then we end up back at square one.. Everytime with no visible trigger as to why she always regresses. back to her peeing in her pants up to 4-6 times a day.. All she will tell you is I didn't want to stop what I was doing, or I don't know why...We have tried any and every type of motivation and encouragement. We have been working on this since she 18 months old when she started to show an interest.... HELP!!!!!!! Does anyone have anything that has worked...
Crying Mom!!!!
I would tell your daughter that she is going to have to give up her pretty panties for pull-ups until she is ready to be a "big girl" again. They are all about being "big" and she won't want to give up her panties to go back to pull-ups. Just make sure you do this, or she'll not take your threats seriously. I think after one pull-up, she'll be fine, if it even goes that far. I wouldn't scold her, just nicely say "you're not ready for your pretty big girl panties, so we will put those away until you stop peeing your pants, and then you can wear you big girl panties again." Just be calm and not make a big deal of it. Good luck and take care...
Checking several sites on this topic I'm struck by the frustration expressed by parents and sense the stress the children involved are suffering. Based on what I learned in an enlightening collage course on behavior, during a couple of generations of family experience, and research, I would like, as a lay person, to share some observations. I will post this in several related threads.
There are several reasons for panty pooping and wetting including revenge, revolting (pun intended), claustrophobia - not liking to be closed in small rooms, especially with a large stone mouth that can swallow a whole child, or a physical condition.
I believe there is another seldom considered reason - are you ready for this - ITS FUN!
One of the first things children independently master is bowel and bladder control. Some children, usually the smarter ones, master this function earlier than others and it may not be noticed by parents. The shift from involuntary to voluntary control is subtle. In an another wise boring time, being able on their own to relieve pressure and even pain by conscientiously spreading the legs a bit and filling underwear, and the resulting relief, pleasure and feeling, can rapidly become addicted behavior, even imprinted. Toss in some erotic feelings (oh yes, your child has them) and an underwear fetish may develop (or may not).
"Fetishism" is characterized by sexual urges and sexually arousing fantasies generally involving non-human objects.
To determine if panty pooping and/or wetting is a behavioral addiction requires some detective work.
1) Hiding soiled underwear is a sign your child feels guilty about causing problems, but not enough to stop the behavior.
2) Washing soiled pants is often seen as way to continue this behavior, eventually in private, without inconveniencing others.
3) An affirmative answer to any of these questions, asked in a relaxed and non-event environment, is a positive clue:
A) "Is going in pants more fun than using the toilet?"
B) "Do you think I would enjoy going in my pants?"
C) "Because you go in your pants a lot is there a special type of underwear you would like?" You might be surprised to receive an intelligent discourse on stretch, absorbency and leg band tension. Your child is pretty smart! Otherwise he or she wouldn't be in this mess (intended).
If you think you are dealing with addicted behavior, than you should make it clear that:
1) This type of behavior is different, however it is not uncommon or unhealthy if proper sanitary practices are followed.
2) Because most people don't understanding panty pooping it must be done in private, not in public, or in school, or when guests or playmates are around.
3) Pooping and peeing in public will influence how you are accepted by others resulting in devastating social problems that will effect your family, life and career - forever.
4) That this urge to poop and/or wet panties will start to go away as you get older and find the extra time and effort involved is not worth the results. (It can increase if under stress or bored.)
5) And, "By the way, don't spoil our floors or furniture!"
Sorry, you can not beat an addiction or fetish out of a person. Seriously harassing a young child can cause bonding stresses that may lead to RADish behavior. No, that's not something to eat. "Reactive Attachment Disorders stem from problems in the parent/child relationship in the earliest years. When infants and toddlers should be learning that their needs can be met by the people they are dependent upon, they learn instead that it's not safe to trust others - that to be dependent on others is not worthwhile. Kevin Kennedy, Ph.D" . Shipping feral children to Russia is not an option for most folks.
It is important to not make this addictive behavior a bigger problem than it really is. Remember, this is not your child's fault! You're the one that missed or messed up the critical potty training window.
1) You are going to have to accept the problem's existence, control it in low stress manner, and it will eventually go away. Or more likely,be repressed.
2) Have pants available. A clear place they can wash and dry. And make sure they know you are available to discuss anything, anytime.
3) When shopping let them pick out their underwear.
4) Put some interesting magazines in the toilet. (If the kid doesn't read them your husband will.)
5) Try to influence event frequency, maybe "every other time" progressing to "once a week", etc.
6) When they clearly don't do it in public anymore try to have more friends, theirs and yours, around which will encourage more toilet use.
7) When mature enough explain the reasons behind this behavior, and maybe your role, and emphasize that it is not un-common. Developing a good self image is important. Children should not think they are some kind of a freak.
Good luck finding a doctor, any kind, that isn't baffled by this "serious defecational defect". Their revulsion with messing around with crap overcomes logic. Your child will have a happy and successful life, if not with some professional help, then with the counsel you provide. Post if you do locate a competent professional who works with children's addictive behavior and fetishes.
Please do not use sugar to try to change behavior. I think addicting kids to sugar should be considered child abuse. I would rather be with a healthy well adjusted adult, who may occasionally enjoy taking a secret dump in a pair of drawers, than a sugar addicted slob, like you ones you've seen blocking the aisles in Wal-Mart. Usually leaning on a large cart full of carbohydrates.
There are several reasons for panty pooping and wetting including revenge, revolting (pun intended), claustrophobia - not liking to be closed in small rooms, especially with a large stone mouth that can swallow a whole child, or a physical condition.
I believe there is another seldom considered reason - are you ready for this - ITS FUN!
One of the first things children independently master is bowel and bladder control. Some children, usually the smarter ones, master this function earlier than others and it may not be noticed by parents. The shift from involuntary to voluntary control is subtle. In an another wise boring time, being able on their own to relieve pressure and even pain by conscientiously spreading the legs a bit and filling underwear, and the resulting relief, pleasure and feeling, can rapidly become addicted behavior, even imprinted. Toss in some erotic feelings (oh yes, your child has them) and an underwear fetish may develop (or may not).
"Fetishism" is characterized by sexual urges and sexually arousing fantasies generally involving non-human objects.
To determine if panty pooping and/or wetting is a behavioral addiction requires some detective work.
1) Hiding soiled underwear is a sign your child feels guilty about causing problems, but not enough to stop the behavior.
2) Washing soiled pants is often seen as way to continue this behavior, eventually in private, without inconveniencing others.
3) An affirmative answer to any of these questions, asked in a relaxed and non-event environment, is a positive clue:
A) "Is going in pants more fun than using the toilet?"
B) "Do you think I would enjoy going in my pants?"
C) "Because you go in your pants a lot is there a special type of underwear you would like?" You might be surprised to receive an intelligent discourse on stretch, absorbency and leg band tension. Your child is pretty smart! Otherwise he or she wouldn't be in this mess (intended).
If you think you are dealing with addicted behavior, than you should make it clear that:
1) This type of behavior is different, however it is not uncommon or unhealthy if proper sanitary practices are followed.
2) Because most people don't understanding panty pooping it must be done in private, not in public, or in school, or when guests or playmates are around.
3) Pooping and peeing in public will influence how you are accepted by others resulting in devastating social problems that will effect your family, life and career - forever.
4) That this urge to poop and/or wet panties will start to go away as you get older and find the extra time and effort involved is not worth the results. (It can increase if under stress or bored.)
5) And, "By the way, don't spoil our floors or furniture!"
Sorry, you can not beat an addiction or fetish out of a person. Seriously harassing a young child can cause bonding stresses that may lead to RADish behavior. No, that's not something to eat. "Reactive Attachment Disorders stem from problems in the parent/child relationship in the earliest years. When infants and toddlers should be learning that their needs can be met by the people they are dependent upon, they learn instead that it's not safe to trust others - that to be dependent on others is not worthwhile. Kevin Kennedy, Ph.D" . Shipping feral children to Russia is not an option for most folks.
It is important to not make this addictive behavior a bigger problem than it really is. Remember, this is not your child's fault! You're the one that missed or messed up the critical potty training window.
1) You are going to have to accept the problem's existence, control it in low stress manner, and it will eventually go away. Or more likely,be repressed.
2) Have pants available. A clear place they can wash and dry. And make sure they know you are available to discuss anything, anytime.
3) When shopping let them pick out their underwear.
4) Put some interesting magazines in the toilet. (If the kid doesn't read them your husband will.)
5) Try to influence event frequency, maybe "every other time" progressing to "once a week", etc.
6) When they clearly don't do it in public anymore try to have more friends, theirs and yours, around which will encourage more toilet use.
7) When mature enough explain the reasons behind this behavior, and maybe your role, and emphasize that it is not un-common. Developing a good self image is important. Children should not think they are some kind of a freak.
Good luck finding a doctor, any kind, that isn't baffled by this "serious defecational defect". Their revulsion with messing around with crap overcomes logic. Your child will have a happy and successful life, if not with some professional help, then with the counsel you provide. Post if you do locate a competent professional who works with children's addictive behavior and fetishes.
Please do not use sugar to try to change behavior. I think addicting kids to sugar should be considered child abuse. I would rather be with a healthy well adjusted adult, who may occasionally enjoy taking a secret dump in a pair of drawers, than a sugar addicted slob, like you ones you've seen blocking the aisles in Wal-Mart. Usually leaning on a large cart full of carbohydrates.
If she has a grandmother, have her grandmother have a serious talk with her. Sometimes grandmothers can get through to kids when parents cannot. I had this problem with my step-daughter when she was 4 years, 10 months old. It happened and my mom can over to my house. All the experts say not to do this, but my mom shamed my step-daughter for an hour. She said "Shame on you, you are not a big girl". My step-daughter kept saying "I'm a big girl". My mom kept saying "NO, you are not. Big girls don't pee on the floor!" It went back and forth for an hour. My step-daughter never had an accident again. I was so sick of scrubing up pee all over the house. Sometimes grandparents know best and in this case it worked.
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