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Seven and Sassy
My son is 7. He argues EVERYTHING with me! His new favorite reply, "make me." It's time to take a shower..."make me." After his father asked him 5 times to come with him to leave soccer practice, dad "left it to me" to get him. I did, and addressed his failure to comply with dad's request to leave. His reply was that it was "his soccer practice and HE decides when he leaves." Conversations go something like, "It is eight o'clock, time for bed." "It iisn't 8 o'clock, it is 7:56." "Don't argue with me." "Don't argue with me." It is always a "right back at you" kind of arguement. I have taken things away. He has lost priveleges. He has been grounded. His grandparents came to visit and his granmother asked him for a hug. He told her that she was the one that wanted it so she should come and get it.
It is really all I can do not to smack his butt. Help!
It is really all I can do not to smack his butt. Help!
Heh heh...yeah, well just keep reminding yourself when you get to a ripe old age you'll be able to visit and smile indulgently when THEIR kids are driving THEM crazy. You can even "help out" by sneaking the kids money and candy when their parents (your kids) are trying to punish them for the same behavior!!! :)
Looking at your mood picture....all I can think of is sticking my kid on an island and tying him up to a tree for a while. ha ha
Thank you! I wanted to hear that this was "age appropriate" behavior, even though it is inappropriate behavior. Someone told me that at this age they are just realizing they are not you and they think differently, etc. and test the waters. I am just trying to get over the feeling of wanting to beat the **** out of him! ha ha. And I can refrain, no anti-spanking comments please. He just fuels the fire and I get so angry because he is smarter than that. So I think anyway. But he keeps arguing that he "isn't being sassy... I am." You get the hint. He isn't disrespectful, I am. He isn't arguing, I am. On and on and on.
I just can't find a way to put an end to that kind of rhetoric. Neither one of us will let the other have the last word. He sassed me and I said, "What did you say to me?" He said, "If you can't hear me, maybe you should go have your ears checked."
I just can't find a way to put an end to that kind of rhetoric. Neither one of us will let the other have the last word. He sassed me and I said, "What did you say to me?" He said, "If you can't hear me, maybe you should go have your ears checked."
It sounds like you're reacting in a pretty positive way. I hate to say it, but this isa pretty normal part of a child's development. He's learning how to relate to others and he's going to use his parents as a test case for what will or won't work.
I saw a comedian on T.V. the other day, who said she can tell which people her age had kids or didn't because those without kids all looked 20 years younger than those with kids!
As long as he isn't going overboard, you may just have to ride it out with the patience of a saint. How you react to all this will help determine who and what he is later on. Doesn't mean it isn't annoying!, overboard or not!
Try to remember he's starting to develop a sense of self and his own boundries. You're right, he wants to see what he can get away with. It sounds like you've got it in control. Hopefully he'll settle down and you'll get a some peace (at least until he becomes a teenager!)
I saw a comedian on T.V. the other day, who said she can tell which people her age had kids or didn't because those without kids all looked 20 years younger than those with kids!
As long as he isn't going overboard, you may just have to ride it out with the patience of a saint. How you react to all this will help determine who and what he is later on. Doesn't mean it isn't annoying!, overboard or not!
Try to remember he's starting to develop a sense of self and his own boundries. You're right, he wants to see what he can get away with. It sounds like you've got it in control. Hopefully he'll settle down and you'll get a some peace (at least until he becomes a teenager!)
I don't "put the fear of God" into my son. I don't threaten him with violence. I state very clearly what his punishment will be (I will take this or that away...you will not be going back to soccer if you can't respect when it is time to leave). The next time we went to soccer, I told him before hand, "If there is a reason that you aren't ready to leave when I say it is time to leave, you stop what you are doing, come over to me, tell me what the reason is. I will decide then if you can finish doing what you are doing or not. My decision will be final with no arguement. Understood?" It worked. But it is GETTING to that point. Why did we have to go through all of that? Why does he have to argue everything and challenge me and PUSH me?
"Make me????" He is clearly threatening me and challenging me. So, what is it that he wants? Does he want to see who will "win?" He just thinks that he is in charge of himself. I tell him his opinion matters, but I am his mother and my word is final. We can have talks about it and share in the "process" if he is respectful.
He has problems with authority at school (Catholic school) if he thinks they aren't being fair. He feels "victimized" a lot (always saying he didn't do it and they took the other kids' side and they didn't listen, etc.). He has started lying to me about things with regards to that. I tell him, "You have one last chance to tell me the truth. If I find out you are lying, and I will, it is all over. If we don't have trust and I don't believe you, everything will be hard on you because I won't believe you." He will fess up. He knows and values and respects the fact that we need to have trust.
I don't carry empty threats. I am upfront. I don't want him to fear me, just respect me. But I am fed up with the sassing and arguing!!!! FED UP!!!
"Make me????" He is clearly threatening me and challenging me. So, what is it that he wants? Does he want to see who will "win?" He just thinks that he is in charge of himself. I tell him his opinion matters, but I am his mother and my word is final. We can have talks about it and share in the "process" if he is respectful.
He has problems with authority at school (Catholic school) if he thinks they aren't being fair. He feels "victimized" a lot (always saying he didn't do it and they took the other kids' side and they didn't listen, etc.). He has started lying to me about things with regards to that. I tell him, "You have one last chance to tell me the truth. If I find out you are lying, and I will, it is all over. If we don't have trust and I don't believe you, everything will be hard on you because I won't believe you." He will fess up. He knows and values and respects the fact that we need to have trust.
I don't carry empty threats. I am upfront. I don't want him to fear me, just respect me. But I am fed up with the sassing and arguing!!!! FED UP!!!
One other thing; when a child says "make me", the IDEAL response situation would be along the lines of;
"I'm not going to make you. You have to do it because you want to. Because it's the right thing to do. We all do our part in this family, out of love and respect for each other. You'll hopefully do it because we take pride in doing something right, even if we don't enjoy doing it. If you don't do your part, we can't do ours. And that means you won't get supper, or T.V., or that trip to Great Adventure. Because these are EARNED things. Nothing in life is free."
Corny, eh? But I bet you'd love it if your kid picked up a philosophy like that and lived by it! :)
Just remember not to argue with him about it. He does it or he doesn't. If he doesn't do it, he suffers and appropriate punishment. If he does it, he gets appropriate praise.
"I'm not going to make you. You have to do it because you want to. Because it's the right thing to do. We all do our part in this family, out of love and respect for each other. You'll hopefully do it because we take pride in doing something right, even if we don't enjoy doing it. If you don't do your part, we can't do ours. And that means you won't get supper, or T.V., or that trip to Great Adventure. Because these are EARNED things. Nothing in life is free."
Corny, eh? But I bet you'd love it if your kid picked up a philosophy like that and lived by it! :)
Just remember not to argue with him about it. He does it or he doesn't. If he doesn't do it, he suffers and appropriate punishment. If he does it, he gets appropriate praise.
I'm having a hard time picturing this situation too. It's so hard to describe all the dynamics of a family in just a little tiny post.
I don't believe in physical punishment either, and I agree that children who are treated too harshly just rebel, usually, or they curl up inside themselves.
The thing is, I don't punish my kids - you know those preschool forms you fill out that say "what punishments do you use at home?" I don't use any. That sounds weird but true. My two high school boys have been grounded once each, and that's for aggregious, dangerous behavior. Other than that you can just handle things as they come up "Hey, quit running in the house you're making it so we can't talk", then "Listen, I said you two quit running in the house, go run outside. Go go go go. Come back in after you run your sillies out".
My kids aren't perfect - all three err on the side of not trying hard to excel. They do get by, but none of the three are the kind of kid on the soccer field, or the classroom, that astounds you with how hard they try. Also, all three err on the side of being messy and forgetful.
So no one's perfect, no parenting style is perfect. I just think my head would fly off if my child told me he was the one who decided when it was time to leave soccer. ;D
I don't believe in physical punishment either, and I agree that children who are treated too harshly just rebel, usually, or they curl up inside themselves.
The thing is, I don't punish my kids - you know those preschool forms you fill out that say "what punishments do you use at home?" I don't use any. That sounds weird but true. My two high school boys have been grounded once each, and that's for aggregious, dangerous behavior. Other than that you can just handle things as they come up "Hey, quit running in the house you're making it so we can't talk", then "Listen, I said you two quit running in the house, go run outside. Go go go go. Come back in after you run your sillies out".
My kids aren't perfect - all three err on the side of not trying hard to excel. They do get by, but none of the three are the kind of kid on the soccer field, or the classroom, that astounds you with how hard they try. Also, all three err on the side of being messy and forgetful.
So no one's perfect, no parenting style is perfect. I just think my head would fly off if my child told me he was the one who decided when it was time to leave soccer. ;D
Frustrating as hell, I can guess!
It sounds like he's really angry about something. He wasn't always like this, was he? If it just started up, SOMETHING caused it.
It also sounds like he's doing this to get a specific reaction from YOU. There's a lot of reasons he could be doing this, but it all comes to the same thing. He's expressing anger at YOU, even if it isn't deserved or logical at the root. If this is something that comes and goes, then SOMETHING is setting him off.
Like I said, the best way to get it under control is to make it very clear there are consequences to his actions. First, do you ever back down in a punishment, even if it's because enforcing it is to time consuming? Don't. It undermines your authority.
If he refuses to eat, so be it. Send him to bed without supper. Make sure he doesn't cheat. ALSO, try teaching him "you get more flies with honey than vinegar". He does'nt' want what you made, and he's rude about it?
Tell him "You can go to bed without supper...or you could ask nicely for something else."
Unfortunately, we live in a society which has a cultural trend right now that lauds bad behavior. Being rude, violent, obnoxious, selfish and "taking the easy path" are considered admirable traits. He's at an age where he's being presented with this view point EVERYWHERE. The media, friends, T.V., etc...
You have the difficult task of showing him this is not true. And if you resort to anger, violence, etc...then you're just showing him that this message is right. Might DOES make right.
Try questioning him indirectly in a casual way about all this. The head on approach would be best, but if he's just shutting down, a more roundabout manner may get you some answers.
It sounds like he's really angry about something. He wasn't always like this, was he? If it just started up, SOMETHING caused it.
It also sounds like he's doing this to get a specific reaction from YOU. There's a lot of reasons he could be doing this, but it all comes to the same thing. He's expressing anger at YOU, even if it isn't deserved or logical at the root. If this is something that comes and goes, then SOMETHING is setting him off.
Like I said, the best way to get it under control is to make it very clear there are consequences to his actions. First, do you ever back down in a punishment, even if it's because enforcing it is to time consuming? Don't. It undermines your authority.
If he refuses to eat, so be it. Send him to bed without supper. Make sure he doesn't cheat. ALSO, try teaching him "you get more flies with honey than vinegar". He does'nt' want what you made, and he's rude about it?
Tell him "You can go to bed without supper...or you could ask nicely for something else."
Unfortunately, we live in a society which has a cultural trend right now that lauds bad behavior. Being rude, violent, obnoxious, selfish and "taking the easy path" are considered admirable traits. He's at an age where he's being presented with this view point EVERYWHERE. The media, friends, T.V., etc...
You have the difficult task of showing him this is not true. And if you resort to anger, violence, etc...then you're just showing him that this message is right. Might DOES make right.
Try questioning him indirectly in a casual way about all this. The head on approach would be best, but if he's just shutting down, a more roundabout manner may get you some answers.
Well... I don't have all the information. To be honest, unless I met the child I couldn't even guess what the problem was.
How's this scenario;
This child is being abused at school by a teacher. Not necessarily physically, but possibly. As a result this behavior has started up (it happens).
So what is fairly typical kid "testing the bounds" behavior gets out of control.
So...do you try to deal with it and get to the root of the problem, or just put "the fear of God" into him to make him stop?
The problem with using fear as a control with children, or physical punishment, is in many cases it won't work. The child wises up and realizes the inherent bluff. Spank/strike him and he decides it was survivable. Spanking isn't about pain, it's about humiliation. And once you've humiliated a child this way over and over, it loses effectiveness.
After all, children are pretty informed. They don't really believe there parents are going to "kill them". It's not like 30-50 years ago. One phone call to the right organization by a child...
If you use fear as a control, then your setting that as the standard for your relationship with your children. I'm not talking about the "sternness of parental disciplining" here, I'm talking genuine fear through threat.
My brothers and I were raised this way (military upbringing), and the end result was when we hit teen-hood, we ran wild, had no fear of our parent's discipline, and did exactly as we pleased. Since our parents had used this type of discipline and established the parental/ child relationship in this regard, we had no problem turning the tables when we were older and bigger. (What, were they going to hit us or yell at us again? So what? We'd survived it before! Big deal!) It was "natural" to us. It was what we'd been taught.
My point is if you don't keep a proper parent/child boundary, if you break down and yell at our punish your child in a harsh, violent manner, with no attempt at reaching him/her, well...you reap what you sow.
And you're right, a "rising of the eyebrows getting an immediate result" is a good point to reach in discipline, but you can reach it in more than one way! :)
How's this scenario;
This child is being abused at school by a teacher. Not necessarily physically, but possibly. As a result this behavior has started up (it happens).
So what is fairly typical kid "testing the bounds" behavior gets out of control.
So...do you try to deal with it and get to the root of the problem, or just put "the fear of God" into him to make him stop?
The problem with using fear as a control with children, or physical punishment, is in many cases it won't work. The child wises up and realizes the inherent bluff. Spank/strike him and he decides it was survivable. Spanking isn't about pain, it's about humiliation. And once you've humiliated a child this way over and over, it loses effectiveness.
After all, children are pretty informed. They don't really believe there parents are going to "kill them". It's not like 30-50 years ago. One phone call to the right organization by a child...
If you use fear as a control, then your setting that as the standard for your relationship with your children. I'm not talking about the "sternness of parental disciplining" here, I'm talking genuine fear through threat.
My brothers and I were raised this way (military upbringing), and the end result was when we hit teen-hood, we ran wild, had no fear of our parent's discipline, and did exactly as we pleased. Since our parents had used this type of discipline and established the parental/ child relationship in this regard, we had no problem turning the tables when we were older and bigger. (What, were they going to hit us or yell at us again? So what? We'd survived it before! Big deal!) It was "natural" to us. It was what we'd been taught.
My point is if you don't keep a proper parent/child boundary, if you break down and yell at our punish your child in a harsh, violent manner, with no attempt at reaching him/her, well...you reap what you sow.
And you're right, a "rising of the eyebrows getting an immediate result" is a good point to reach in discipline, but you can reach it in more than one way! :)
Yes, I put him to work. I decided the basement needed to be cleaned of spiders and cobwebs. He said he didn't like the job and then goes, "well, I guess I deserve it." Smart, smart kid. Can be VERY reasonable and logical and kind. But once there is a moment of "darkness," once he even shows a HINT of the "sassy" I know it is all over with because it just escalades until it explodes!
I am the disciplinarian. My husband tries to "reason" with him and talks to him till even I want to tell his dad to shut up. I tell him once, then twice. When he said, "make me" get into the shower. I threw him in with his clothes on. Swift...I don't have the time or the patience for that kind of ****. My husband will stay up for an hour and argue with him over it. He gives into the kids because he doesn't want to hear the whinning.
He said, "Just because you are bigger than me doesn't mean you can tell me what to do." He is a very smart kid. Scholastically anyway.
The other day he was shooting this marshmallow gun but pointing it toward his sister. I told him to point it away from her. He did it again toward her. I took it away and threw it in the trash. He told me I am just wasting my money.
I do tell him he is out of line. With the soccer incident the other day (after dad left without him) I walked by him toward the car and told him "let's go." He said "no, wait." I said "now" and kept walking. He followed. When I began driving and told him about leaving when we said it was time to go and he told me it was him soccer and he decided when to leave....I pulled over immediately, unbuckled, got out, went over to his door, and got in his face. He got the point,, but why does it have to come to that?
"I don't like anything for dinner" he said the other day. "Oh well," I said, "Then you will be hungry in the morning." He goes, "Well, then, you better get up and make me something else!"
Normallly, a sweet, bright kid that is everyones friend and will give you the shirt off his back. Will do anything in the world for his sister, etc. She runs him into the ground and he takes it.
But this sassing and arguing has me ready to pull his hair out!
He said, "Just because you are bigger than me doesn't mean you can tell me what to do." He is a very smart kid. Scholastically anyway.
The other day he was shooting this marshmallow gun but pointing it toward his sister. I told him to point it away from her. He did it again toward her. I took it away and threw it in the trash. He told me I am just wasting my money.
I do tell him he is out of line. With the soccer incident the other day (after dad left without him) I walked by him toward the car and told him "let's go." He said "no, wait." I said "now" and kept walking. He followed. When I began driving and told him about leaving when we said it was time to go and he told me it was him soccer and he decided when to leave....I pulled over immediately, unbuckled, got out, went over to his door, and got in his face. He got the point,, but why does it have to come to that?
"I don't like anything for dinner" he said the other day. "Oh well," I said, "Then you will be hungry in the morning." He goes, "Well, then, you better get up and make me something else!"
Normallly, a sweet, bright kid that is everyones friend and will give you the shirt off his back. Will do anything in the world for his sister, etc. She runs him into the ground and he takes it.
But this sassing and arguing has me ready to pull his hair out!
Savas - no amount of taking away privileges in the long after math will help.
This child needs attitude adjustment - and punishment that is long deferred isn't helping.
He needs a man who will STOP this bratty behavior in its tracks, with no extended elongated punishment of taking away toys, grounding, etc. He nees a man's raised eyebrows to tell him he's totally out of line, and get back in line RIGHT NOW.
In the past, men knew how to do this. I can't imagine why men don't know this now, but they don't seem to. Also, mothers are often without men to raise their children so this happens.
This child needs attitude adjustment - and punishment that is long deferred isn't helping.
He needs a man who will STOP this bratty behavior in its tracks, with no extended elongated punishment of taking away toys, grounding, etc. He nees a man's raised eyebrows to tell him he's totally out of line, and get back in line RIGHT NOW.
In the past, men knew how to do this. I can't imagine why men don't know this now, but they don't seem to. Also, mothers are often without men to raise their children so this happens.
Well, he's clearly challenging the household authority. The important thing is to not argue/fight with him on an adult level. Keep the roles between you as parent/child clear.
If "logic" won't work on him, simply tell him "You have to do it because we say you do."
Try not to raise your voice or get angry. You're actually giving him the upper hand. He is looking for a reaction, don't play his game. If you can keep the "High road" and keep your authority as an adult, hopefully he'll get past this stage.
Continue to take away toys, etc...privileges as he misbehaves. If you can do this with a stoicism that shows he isn't "in charge", then he should tire it.
I'd suggest "putting him to work" if he wants to act "in charge". Extra chores and the like, as part of the punishment. You can see how it goes :)
Without more information about his grades, friendships, etc...it's hard to say if the problem has reached a level where you need help. This behavior COULD be a result of something that's happening outside the household, in school for example. Perhaps you could meet with his teachers...?
If "logic" won't work on him, simply tell him "You have to do it because we say you do."
Try not to raise your voice or get angry. You're actually giving him the upper hand. He is looking for a reaction, don't play his game. If you can keep the "High road" and keep your authority as an adult, hopefully he'll get past this stage.
Continue to take away toys, etc...privileges as he misbehaves. If you can do this with a stoicism that shows he isn't "in charge", then he should tire it.
I'd suggest "putting him to work" if he wants to act "in charge". Extra chores and the like, as part of the punishment. You can see how it goes :)
Without more information about his grades, friendships, etc...it's hard to say if the problem has reached a level where you need help. This behavior COULD be a result of something that's happening outside the household, in school for example. Perhaps you could meet with his teachers...?
Well, I say smack his butt.
Honestly, you don't even have to do that, you just have to physically overpower him. Or your husband.
Let me tell you, one of my sons wouldn't have told my husband now he wasn't leaving a soccer practice. My husband has never hit any of our kids.
Your husband is acting weak, and your son has moved in to the head of the house role because no one is making him behave. Grounding a child for being that disrespectful isn't working, obviously. What he needs is for your husband to say HEY!!! YOU ARE NOT GOING TO TALK TO ME THAT WAY, DO YOU UNDERSTAND??? DO YOU UNDERSTAND??? Right in his face.
Reading posts like yours make me kind of sweaty. What would your dad, or your husband's dad, have done with this boy if they were the parent?
Honestly, you don't even have to do that, you just have to physically overpower him. Or your husband.
Let me tell you, one of my sons wouldn't have told my husband now he wasn't leaving a soccer practice. My husband has never hit any of our kids.
Your husband is acting weak, and your son has moved in to the head of the house role because no one is making him behave. Grounding a child for being that disrespectful isn't working, obviously. What he needs is for your husband to say HEY!!! YOU ARE NOT GOING TO TALK TO ME THAT WAY, DO YOU UNDERSTAND??? DO YOU UNDERSTAND??? Right in his face.
Reading posts like yours make me kind of sweaty. What would your dad, or your husband's dad, have done with this boy if they were the parent?
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