my 9 year old daughter

[desip25]

I have a 9 year old daughter . she is a hand ful.. she has a learning disability and since than my life has been flipped upside down. she has these temper tantrums that can last up to an hour. She can sry and cry and when you try to take to her she shuts u out of her head you cannot get in until she is calmed.. when she gets calm she goes on with her day like nothing. she'll act like nothing ever happened. but when you ask her why she did that she will tell and it is usually something small.. like for example today, she had a field trip to the meuseum and could not find her school shirt.. so I picked out clothes for her to wear cuz she was standing around like nothing. She started crying and I told her of I recieve a phone call from school that you did another temper tantrums , I am going to punish you again. she recently got of punishment because she decided to steal from the class treasure box  more than 15+ items during a period of a couple of months.. they let her go with a warning. She apologized and felt guilty. but she still had to serve her punishment at home... she has these big attitudes for any little thing. like if her sister do not listen to her she becomes all angry and yells at them . she sometimes does not want to go to bed because she says she is not tired.. she will wake up the whole house when she does this. it can last up to a couple of hours until she falls asleep.  She never want s to do nothing and when she does she is in a good mood. I alway try to talk to her but if feels like she is ignoring me. My husband is tired of her attitude but does not interfer with the punishment. he tries to talk to her but it also feels like she is ignoring him too..  This is just my oldest child that I struggle with the most..... I need help or advice or something that can help me get strength to control her or at least somewhere to start because the doctor says nothing is wrong with her.. that it may be cuz she is growing up...

[Sandman2]

   I am really glad that you took your daughter in to see the doctor and that she referred her!  
If you remember I said that, "Tantrums going on for hours is a more serious issue."  I think that the recommendations by the behavioral therapist would also indicate that.  Giving you emergency numbers and prozac would also indicate this.   By the way, do keep in constant contact with the therapist if the med does not seem to be working as it should.  Its not unusual to need to tweak doses.
   The work with the specialist will be very important.  Kids with ADD have up to a 30% chance of depression.  Hopefully, the prozac will allow her to mellow out, and then (if she has ADD) the root cause of the depression can be treated.
   I do think that once the specialist has had time to work with you, you need to know what is going on.  I can understand why after just one meeting the behavioral therapist spoke in general terms.  But, you will need to know what is going on.  
   Finally, realize that the specialist should also be helping you help her.  Yes, you are going to have to do things differently (Hey, the old way wasn't working to well anyway).  They should be able to help you with that.  And once again, I definitely think you should buy the book, "The ADD/ ADHD Answer book," by Susan Ashley.  It will give you ways to work with her.
  Keep me posted,  I'm glad that you took this step to help your daughter!

[desip25]

I have an update about my daughter: I took her to her doctor yesturday and spent a while in her office and told her about my concerns and she also got to witness the tantrums my daughter has........ I expressed to her that my daughter maybe ADD and she agreed with me and says Jackie needs to see a therapist. I was given a referral to this really nice behavioral therapist ans her daughter said that Jackie has depressive disorder not where else calssiffied. which I believe means she is depressed  but they dont know why. they gave me emergency numbers incase things get out of control and she started medicaton for antidepression today called prozac... they r going to get her started on seeing a specialist to help her cope with depression and to help it go away... it will take time, but I am glad I finally know for sure what she has and why she cant go to sleep at night. I have to approach things diferently with her and to give her positive reinforcement.But they are ging to test or assess her to she if she is ADD and also help her with that. Thank you so much for your feedback!

[Sandman2]

  Your welcome, I do think that checking out ADD is worth your time.
Also please remember that for punishment to be effective it has to be immediate and consistent.  When you change your methods, the kid wins.  They can quickly figure out that by appearing to not let the punishment bother them, you will try something else.  Also, experts say it takes about 3 weeks of immediate and consistent reinforcement to change behavior.  You can not expect behavior to change overnight.  That is one reason why I like the SOS book, it lays out a very consistent system.  Good Luck!

[desip25]

her counelor has not suggested nothing at all.... I feel like i am wasting my time. from friends and family I was told punishment in the room is best I can do because I have tried other ways of punishment but she ends up enjoying it and than I have to change it.. I am going to look up more about ADD because I have a feeling she may have this because she is too quiet and always away from the crowd and does not like to participate in family events. Thank you.

[Sandman2]

      Tantrums going on for hours is a more serious issue.  Do they really go on for hours, or do they just seem like it?
       What does the counselor think about the sessions with her.  And is the counselor only helping her with academics?  That actually might make things worse depending on the methods being used.
        By the way, I'm not sure if I read you right, but if a punishment is being in her room for a full day without tv.  That is not productive and probably making the situation worse.  You might want to check out the book,  "SOS Help for Parents," by Lynn Clark for some excellent suggestions on ways to work with her.
         School, I think should just about be out in Texas.  If this is ADD, then once the academic pressures stop, she should mellow out for awhile - at least till school starts again.  Hopefully, by now you have ordered the book I suggested and taken a look at some of the other resources.
        Since it is summer, I would consider letting her go to bed a bit later.  I would definitely find some summer activities for her that require activity.  Do read the SOS book.  There are effective ways for punishment and the book will give those to you.
         I would also consider getting a white board where all the kids bedtimes and chores are posted.  Its a tactic that does work if followed.  Just remember that as the SOS book recommends, consequences have to be immediate and  consistent.  So letting her go to bed and then read or something for awhile is a good idea.  If she goes bonkers - no reading.  You don't punish her the next day.
        Also, kids do need to be taught how to handle their anger.  There are a couple sets of books aimed at this age group.  One is, " How to Take the Grrrr Out of Anger" (Laugh And Learn). That and several more are found here - http://www.amazon.com/Take-Grrrr-Anger-Laugh-Learn/dp/1575421178/ref=pd_sim_b_7
          Another good set is the," Don't Rant and Rave on Wednesdays!" The Children's Anger-Control Book. That and others in the set are found here - http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Rant-Rave-Wednesdays-Anger-Control/dp/0933849540/ref=pd_sim_b_1
          Hope this helps and do let me know what she is doing with the counselor.  Good Luck!
          

[desip25]

The questionaires, I believe was in January 2011..... her tanrums have gotten worse she is doing it now when its time to go to bed.... She can get very violen t now where to throws stuff and kicks the wall......... these can last for hours now... when she is doing these attacks she says no one loves her we all hate her.. which i just let her say all those things until she is done.. she does recieve punishment in her room with no tv  for a whole day... every time she does one of these... she  gets upset for the most little things for example if you tell her to clean her room she starts or if u tell her bedtime she starts... but yet she expects me to give her what she wants and i tell her no because of her behavior.. My husband says she is acting out because she is growing. My other two daughters do not do this at all... her behavior lately has been stubborn and selfish ...... she has been going to a counelor but it is just making the situation worse...

[Sandman2]

    Ya, I kind of guessed that would be your answer.  
She is a bit young for her grade in school.  Sept. is now the cutoff date in California.  I doubt that she is the youngest in her class, but she might be close.  It does make a difference as the other kids are starting to mature.  It will equalize out in a few more years, but its just something to keep in mind.  Girls seem to be more sensitive to this than boys.
   The doctor gave you the standard test for ADHD.  Its not real good for ADD.  Also, (depending on his experience) pediatricians are not as accurate in their diagnosis as a pediatric psychiatrist or psychologist.    My personal experience with kids is that typically at 4th grade (usually fractions does it), math starts to become a problem.  The inability to concentrate in class is the main reason.  If she does have ADD, the anxiety and frustration will only get worse.  And if the child is quite and not running around the class, the teacher may not even notice the problem.  As I've said above, its real important to find out what is going on.  Unfortunately, there are not a lot of good sites on ADD for kids.  The hyper ADHD kid gets all the attention.  I think that you might want to try going to totallyadd.com. Its aimed at adults, but you get a very good idea of what it is and can do.  The videos are a great place to start, and they are entertaining as well as being highly informational.
   If you haven't bought the book I suggested, do so.  Its not expensive and in a very compact form will give you lots of information.  And it has very good information about doing a 504 plan to help her at school, as well as some excellent ways to help with homework.
   If she keeps having these problems in school, you might want to check out a psychologist or psychiatrist who specializes in kids.  You might also see if you can find a teacher for next year that does more than just lectures to kids.  One who engages them alot and is an active teacher (moves around).
   Hope this helps.  By the way, when did the doc test for ADHD.  Was it early in the year?  Did the questionaire also get sent to last years teacher?

[desip25]

her pediatrician tested her for ADHD and ber birth is july 2001 she will be in 5th grade.. they gave me this paper with questions on it and also a copy for her teacher to fill out..

[Sandman2]

   Quick question -  what kind of a doctor tested her for ADD and how did he do the test?  
Also curious as to when her birthday is and what grade she is in (I'd assume 4th)?

[desip25]

thank you for more posting more information. She gets these attacks when their is a test that needs to be done and she just cant memorize the material. I ave called to receive  help for counseling and she starts this Monday June 13th .. this will be her first time going. but I know she will do great. as I stated earlier she does these attacks every once every two weeks. I know when has an anxiety or when  she is having a bad day.  she is extremely quiet and the doctor already tested her for ADD but the doctor says that she did not qualify to be ADD.  the anger issues do run in my family along with the learning disability. My younger brother has a learning disability and also ADHD  and has really bad anger issues. Thank you so much for your feed back. I really appreciate it.

[Sandman2]

    By the way, I have taught and principaled at the elementary level for many, many years. I never heard of a disability in math comprehension.  Yes, I had kids who had trouble in math comprehension but we were able to identify why.  If the disability is only in math comprehension (she is doing ok in the other subjects), then this is not a matter of lack of intelligence.  It could be something like ADD.
    The problem is that you don't know what is causing the behavioral problems.  I post a lot on the ADHD forum.  I have seen many cases where the child had ADD.  They can't learn the material and freak out when test time comes.  Since they normally are quiet (as compared to kids with ADHD) they get ignored.  The whole ADD experience can cause tremendous anxiety.   The fact that these tantrums don't happen daily at school kind of exclude things like bipolar.  It would be interesting to see how often these tantrums occur around tests or assignments being done in school.  
      And yes, part of the problem could be due to having younger siblings around which causes her to want more of your attention.  If she is getting overwhelmed at school, she really does need somewhere to get some help.
    I think that by now the school should be worried enough about her that they would be willing to do some testing to find out what is going on.Talk to someone NOW to arrange this for early next year.  I also think that it will be worth your time to buy the book, "The ADD/ ADHD Answer book," by Susan Ashley.   She may not have ADD, but this book will help you decide that.  It also will help you tremendously if she does.  And it gives you lots of ways to make the school help her.  It also gives a lot of good ways to work with (effectively discipline) her.
    And don't worry about medication now.  A lot can be done without it.  But you need to know what the problem is so that you can know how to treat it.  IF all of this was only happening at home, then your doctor might be right.  But, its not and he is way off base.
Please post if you have any more questions.
    

[supermomma531]

Hi, how are you today? I have a son who is also 9 yrs old and has extreme behavior issues. For the past few years, we have has to teach him how to do what is called four square breathing. When he does this, it helps to calm him down most times but there are times that it doesn't work so we have to sit him in his room for a while so he can have his own space to calm down and then once this happens, he has what is called a choices board that he can pick an activity from to do. He can do this until he feels he is calmed down enough to talk to us. We got these ideas from a place called Regional children's center. If there is one in your area, they may be able to help you and your daughter. Check it out. My son was so bad to the point of me being called everyday to pick him up from school. Now this being said, he also has a rare form of epilepsy called LENNOX GASTAUT SYNDROME and ADD WITH HYPER ACTIVITY. Also too, he is intellectually challenged severely. Some of his meds that he takes do contribute to his behavior. I hope this helps you tremendously. I know exactly what it is like to have a child who is severely behaviorally challenged.

[desip25]

Hi, thank you for your response. She has a learning disability in math comprehension.. she suffers from anxiety. It usually happens before tests in math. The teacher and staff all say that she is a wonderful child. She is very respectful but is very shy and does not seem want to participate in class activities.. they also said she has like 2 friends . When starts one of her tantrums or anxiety they send her to the counselor and she tries her best to help her calm down but most of the time the counselor can't seem to help her so I would have to pick her up from school every time she does this. She can have a anxiety or her temper tantrums like once every two weeks.... I am doing everything that I can do to help her.. Do you know any thing natural that helps with anxiety because I feel that medication is not for her right now.... Thank you.

[Sandman2]

   I think it would be a good idea to talk more with her teacher to see how she is at school.  If she is the same way, how does the teacher handle this.  If she is not, what does the teacher do that prevents this from happening.
   By the way, you said she has a learning disability.  That could be part of the problem, but until we know what the disability is - its very hard to help.  Every disability has specific ways to help the child.  Oh, is she getting any special help from school for her learning disability?
  You don't need strength to control a child, you just need to know how.  Perhaps with some more information we can help you.  Best wishes!