Aa
out of control
My 6 year old step-daughter has been without her mother for the last couple of years, she just upped and left her to her father. I have been apart of her life for 4 years now and have been in a relationship with her father for 2. She was a very smart and independent child before being removed from the home by facs when she was 3 because of her mother. We have won our custody battle and she has been home with us for 9 months now. Speaking with her foster mom I find that my boyfriend and I are having the same problems the foster mom was having with her.
She is constantly mouthing off to everybody, she would rather play alone than with anybody else, she gets very physical with objects that are around her when she doesn't get her way. Just last week she had a spelling test and she didn't "feel like it" so she took her shoes off and began to throw them around the classroom. She is peeing and pooping her pants on a daily basis sometimes 4-5 times a day. Last week as well, she got up at 3:00am and sat in the middle of her floor, we told her that she needed to be in her bed because she had school in the morning and she needed her rest so that she could be awake to play the next day. She refused. Her father had to scoop her up off the floor and put her in her bed and even getting her head down on the pillow was a hassle. She woke her 1 year old sister up in the process. Although she has yet to harm her younger sister in a huge manor, I am afraid that she may or even hurt herself. The foster mom had told us that she used to have to hold her down because she would get so violent. She has and still is in psychiatry and play theory but nobody seems to have an answer other than anxiety. To me this seems to be more than anxiety. There is a history of bi-polar in her family and they are looking out for it but they say that it is very highly unlikely. I have mentioned to them ODD and they gave me no response to this, they just changed the subject. She's not eating her meals, so I make sure to give her a vitamin every day so that she still gets the nutrition she needs. I have tried every discipline in the book. I have had facs, public health, and councilors give me advice and I've taken it but none of it is working. As for her peeing and pooping herself I have also taken her to the doctors for that to see if it was a medical problem and the results came back negative.
It seems to me too that she likes to cause problems. The way that I explained it to her psychiatrist is that she has just lit a village on fire and she's sitting at the highest hilltop and watching everybody run for their lives. I saw one day that her father and I had got into an argument about how to deal with this situation and she sat on the couch, watching us, with a smile on her face. To me this seems defiant. It's almost like she's purposely trying to cause problems or maybe she's just trying to pry her father and I apart. Whatever the case may be, something has to give.
My patience is wearing thin and I try to be considerate of her situation but I can only be considerate so much before she takes advantage of it. I don't really know what to do and I think I could better cope and communicate with her better if I could find out what the problem is, whether it's medical or behavioural. What's your opinion on ODD? What's your opinion on the matter?
She is constantly mouthing off to everybody, she would rather play alone than with anybody else, she gets very physical with objects that are around her when she doesn't get her way. Just last week she had a spelling test and she didn't "feel like it" so she took her shoes off and began to throw them around the classroom. She is peeing and pooping her pants on a daily basis sometimes 4-5 times a day. Last week as well, she got up at 3:00am and sat in the middle of her floor, we told her that she needed to be in her bed because she had school in the morning and she needed her rest so that she could be awake to play the next day. She refused. Her father had to scoop her up off the floor and put her in her bed and even getting her head down on the pillow was a hassle. She woke her 1 year old sister up in the process. Although she has yet to harm her younger sister in a huge manor, I am afraid that she may or even hurt herself. The foster mom had told us that she used to have to hold her down because she would get so violent. She has and still is in psychiatry and play theory but nobody seems to have an answer other than anxiety. To me this seems to be more than anxiety. There is a history of bi-polar in her family and they are looking out for it but they say that it is very highly unlikely. I have mentioned to them ODD and they gave me no response to this, they just changed the subject. She's not eating her meals, so I make sure to give her a vitamin every day so that she still gets the nutrition she needs. I have tried every discipline in the book. I have had facs, public health, and councilors give me advice and I've taken it but none of it is working. As for her peeing and pooping herself I have also taken her to the doctors for that to see if it was a medical problem and the results came back negative.
It seems to me too that she likes to cause problems. The way that I explained it to her psychiatrist is that she has just lit a village on fire and she's sitting at the highest hilltop and watching everybody run for their lives. I saw one day that her father and I had got into an argument about how to deal with this situation and she sat on the couch, watching us, with a smile on her face. To me this seems defiant. It's almost like she's purposely trying to cause problems or maybe she's just trying to pry her father and I apart. Whatever the case may be, something has to give.
My patience is wearing thin and I try to be considerate of her situation but I can only be considerate so much before she takes advantage of it. I don't really know what to do and I think I could better cope and communicate with her better if I could find out what the problem is, whether it's medical or behavioural. What's your opinion on ODD? What's your opinion on the matter?
i do find that she does have a learning disability but i also see a lot of ADHD and ADD but nobody will "diagnose" her with it. She is not being properly assessed. She was assessed when she was 3 and was diagnosed with Anxiety, which I had no objections to, except they were putting her on extremely high doses. She was up all night, overly hyper, misbehaved twice as bad as she does now. I took her off of it without the doctor's consent because they refused to agree that a lower dosage or a different medication was needed. Nobody will reassess her because she is so young, so troubled, and it's hard to diagnose, they say, because of what she has gone through. She has low self esteem which i'm sure isn't a shock to you but she doesn't even try. She's constantly looking for people to give her the answers, looking for people to do everything for her. When she first came home from being in care, I had asked her to get dressed. She sat on the floor naked like she didn't know what to do next. She had just turned 5 at this time. The concept, I think, of getting dressed should have been grasped at that point of time in life. I think that before I was involved with my boyfriend that everybody around her did everything for her and never gave her the chance to learn for herself. With me, I don't allow that. I let her do things on her own, that I know she can do for example, getting dressed. She has now grasped it but it took a loooong time. When things don't go her way, or when she can't figure something out for herself, she becomes very emotional and begins to throw things. but the thing is, that most of the things she doesn't understand, she does, her mind has just shut down because she doesn't want to do it. She likes to play dumb with everybody, right down to her colours. She plays it off like she doesn't know them, yet she can point to every colour and name them properly. She is losing a lot of marks because of these insecurities, I suppose I could call them. I mean everybody gets frustrated at one point of another, so I can't say she's wrong for feeling that way, because she's not. The way she responds to this frustration though is wrong and I'm trying to teach her that but she can't listen because she's too focused on how frustrated she is.
sensory integration disorder .... could you explain a little further about this? Her fine motor skills are excellent, no problems there. As for speech, when she was younger she did have to go to a speech therapist for an assessment but the doctor said she was up to par at her age. She talks very clearly, you can understand what she's saying MOST of the time, the problem is that she cannot put a story into sequence. She cannot say, "This morning I woke up, got dressed, ate breakfast, brushed my teeth." She would say, "This weekend, I got dressed, woke up, brushed my teeth, and ate breakfast." She is aware of the things happening around her, and aware of what she's doing, but she's unaware of when it is happening.
At night before going to bed, we talk a little bit about our day, how we felt, if we made any right choices, what could we do differently the following day and not just her, I answer to these questions as well to her because like any human I make mistakes as well and I want her to understand that. That it's okay to make a mistake but "we have to try together to do it differently tomorrow."
What's the anger scale?
sensory integration disorder .... could you explain a little further about this? Her fine motor skills are excellent, no problems there. As for speech, when she was younger she did have to go to a speech therapist for an assessment but the doctor said she was up to par at her age. She talks very clearly, you can understand what she's saying MOST of the time, the problem is that she cannot put a story into sequence. She cannot say, "This morning I woke up, got dressed, ate breakfast, brushed my teeth." She would say, "This weekend, I got dressed, woke up, brushed my teeth, and ate breakfast." She is aware of the things happening around her, and aware of what she's doing, but she's unaware of when it is happening.
At night before going to bed, we talk a little bit about our day, how we felt, if we made any right choices, what could we do differently the following day and not just her, I answer to these questions as well to her because like any human I make mistakes as well and I want her to understand that. That it's okay to make a mistake but "we have to try together to do it differently tomorrow."
What's the anger scale?
It is very difficult to raise someone else's child and especialy so when the child is troubled. But this is the hand you've been dealt. I hear that you want the best for her---- I hear that from you. Know that I also understand that you have other committments as well and are probably very tired and overwhelmed at times.
I think the counselor is right on the money----- this child doesn't know if you are going to leave someday too or what is the next stop for her. It must feel terrible to have that insecurity or fear of where she'll end up next. A mother that walks away from her child is impossible for me to understand . . .but don't you guess that she did unspeakable things to her as well when with her? I'm sure neglect/abuse was present. So I so agree that building the trust here is going to be key. By the way, although 6 seems so much older than your 1 year old----- I spend that much time with my almost 6 year old now too. They are still little kids and need lots of supervision and guidance. I have a younger child too----- but they want me around them and interacting with them all the time. They can play nicely by themselves, don't get me wrong----- but I do spend MANY hours each and every day with them ---- lots of which is just talking. I figure someday they will just ignore me when they are teenagers---- so I try to see the beauty in it.
I also think it would be a good idea for you to investigate her troubles in school. Could she have a learning disability? Also, google sensory integration disorder as this affects the nervous system and shows itself often as behavioural problems (my son has sensory integration disorder). See if it fits. I'd have lots of ideas for things to try if it does fit. How are her fine motor skills? How was her speech?
I would try to get more physical activity for her. This has a direct link to behavior. We use a scale for anger with our son that works well---- let me know if you would be interested in that. Also talk to her about things you have in common. Tell her stories of things she can relate to from your life. Especially working through frustration type stories. good luck
I think the counselor is right on the money----- this child doesn't know if you are going to leave someday too or what is the next stop for her. It must feel terrible to have that insecurity or fear of where she'll end up next. A mother that walks away from her child is impossible for me to understand . . .but don't you guess that she did unspeakable things to her as well when with her? I'm sure neglect/abuse was present. So I so agree that building the trust here is going to be key. By the way, although 6 seems so much older than your 1 year old----- I spend that much time with my almost 6 year old now too. They are still little kids and need lots of supervision and guidance. I have a younger child too----- but they want me around them and interacting with them all the time. They can play nicely by themselves, don't get me wrong----- but I do spend MANY hours each and every day with them ---- lots of which is just talking. I figure someday they will just ignore me when they are teenagers---- so I try to see the beauty in it.
I also think it would be a good idea for you to investigate her troubles in school. Could she have a learning disability? Also, google sensory integration disorder as this affects the nervous system and shows itself often as behavioural problems (my son has sensory integration disorder). See if it fits. I'd have lots of ideas for things to try if it does fit. How are her fine motor skills? How was her speech?
I would try to get more physical activity for her. This has a direct link to behavior. We use a scale for anger with our son that works well---- let me know if you would be interested in that. Also talk to her about things you have in common. Tell her stories of things she can relate to from your life. Especially working through frustration type stories. good luck
what had happened was when she was 2 years old, her mother packed her stuff and left, 6 months later came back into her life long enough to receive some money, left again when she was 3 .. the mother called FACS saying that he had nothing for her, when in actually reality she had taken everything of her stuff and he had to purchase everything again, and began to bash him and the people around him, FACS found what she was saying to be reason enough to remove the child. Her mother had be brought back into her life, for 3 more months and she had said that she was pregnant with another child and that it wasn't "fair" to the 6 year old, at the time 4, that she spend all over her time with the unborn child and not her. So she signed her rights over to FACS and after a long battle with them, the father and I finally received custody. I spend several hours with her but she demands more. I only have so much time, you know what I mean? .. I have other responsibilities. I have not only her to look after but a younger child as well, as well as going to school and working. I can only give so much but she still demands more.
It's not that I "want"it to be ODD. My problem was that I asked about the disorder and I got no response not even so much as a "no, that can't be". They said nothing but you are right, if it was ODD, it would've been noticed a while back. I just want to understand her so that I can help and communicate with her in a way that she may understand and maybe in a better setting. It's hard to keep patience with something that you don't even understand why it's happening in the first place. She has lived a horrifying life, which that should be enough, except hard life or not, I feel that the way she treats herself and the people around her is not acceptable regardless and I need a way to guide her away from this behaviour and onto a better path, except she's rejecting everything that I try.
The play therapy that she receives in simply for her emotional, mental, and psychological needs. They are wanting to see exactly how she is feeling and to help her deal with the emotions. They find that, that is the best way to communicate with her is through play, and the only way that they can see how she truly is feeling. She used to have constant meltdowns, now not so much because I found that they weren't really meltdowns. To me the word "meltdown" means an overload of emotions, which she may very well have, I wouldn't doubt it at all, but these "meltdowns" that she had only seemed to happen when she didn't get her own way. I wouldn't respond to these "tantrums" as I called it. I would tell her to take it to her room and when we are both calm we will come back to each other and talk. Which seems to work, 20% of the time.
She is getting "special" attention at school because she is not able to follow along with the class, she's actually still at an SK level, in grade 1. She shuts down so easily and if she's in a bad mood good luck getting her to do anything. We do as well follow a reward chart. Every time she does something "good" like maybe helping her sister, asking for help, opening the door, anything of good gesture and also minor responsibilities such as getting dressed in the morning, eating and brushing her teeth, playing nicely and cleaning up. I try and give her something(we use stickers) every possible chance I get. She's 5 right now turning 6 at the end of this month, so right now she is expected to get 5 stickers out of like 10 responsibilities that she has. If she is to get 5 stickers a day for 6 days that's 30 stickers, we use Sunday as a "catch up" day and if she gets those 30 stickers we take her out to the dollar store and she can pick out anything she like, or she may decide to go out for lunch/dinner, etc. She tends to not care so much.
Her life is a complicated story no doubt. I understand how she may be feeling, more now, now that I've gotten all of yours' advises but now how do I deal with it. I just talked to a councelor today and all she said to me was to build the trust first. It'll be hard to deal with, but her main problem is trusting. So i am to constantly go to her while she's playing or in the bathroom, having a bath, eating, whatever she's doing, come in, and talk with her, see how she is, if she needs any help, and to remind her that I'm there if she needs me. She said that I will not be able to help her until she is willing to accept my help and that she won't accept my help if she thinks that I'm just going to "up and leave" just like everybody else did. Which to me makes total sense. But what do I do about all of the misbehaving in the mean time? I refuse to let her walk all over me because that's what she wants right? Control over the situation, control over her life, control of her surroundings, since she lost so much of it.
It breaks my heart too. Today there was a mother and a little boy walking down the street on our way home from school, and the little boy for whatever reason dropped to the ground kicking and screaming. The mother asked him to get up and he refused so she began to walk away, and the boy screamed louder, the 6 year old began to cry and begged me to let her help him find his mother. That he needed his mom and she was walking away from him. I really didn't know what to say to this because she has gone through the same thing, the difference was her mother walked away and never looked back, whereas this mother obviously did. (Just trying to teach her son that she was going to listen to it). All I could say to her was that his mom was right there for him and that it's great that she wants to help him but there's only so much she could do. Then she asked me if we could go to the police station to get a police man to help the boy. I said that we didn't need to, and I pointed at the boy and showed her that he was now quiet and walking with his mother. She calmed down.
This poor broken hearted soul, so young, so immature, just a child, and yet I can't help her because she doesn't trust me enough to let me into her life TO help her. No matter how hard I try she just won't let me in. I won't give up by all means but I need to reach for her at a different perspective and I'm out of options. I've been apart of her life for 4 years now and yet there's still no trust. I can't even say that I understand, I know how she MAY be feeling, but never will I understand HOW she actually feels because I've never experienced all of this for myself. You know?
It's not that I "want"it to be ODD. My problem was that I asked about the disorder and I got no response not even so much as a "no, that can't be". They said nothing but you are right, if it was ODD, it would've been noticed a while back. I just want to understand her so that I can help and communicate with her in a way that she may understand and maybe in a better setting. It's hard to keep patience with something that you don't even understand why it's happening in the first place. She has lived a horrifying life, which that should be enough, except hard life or not, I feel that the way she treats herself and the people around her is not acceptable regardless and I need a way to guide her away from this behaviour and onto a better path, except she's rejecting everything that I try.
The play therapy that she receives in simply for her emotional, mental, and psychological needs. They are wanting to see exactly how she is feeling and to help her deal with the emotions. They find that, that is the best way to communicate with her is through play, and the only way that they can see how she truly is feeling. She used to have constant meltdowns, now not so much because I found that they weren't really meltdowns. To me the word "meltdown" means an overload of emotions, which she may very well have, I wouldn't doubt it at all, but these "meltdowns" that she had only seemed to happen when she didn't get her own way. I wouldn't respond to these "tantrums" as I called it. I would tell her to take it to her room and when we are both calm we will come back to each other and talk. Which seems to work, 20% of the time.
She is getting "special" attention at school because she is not able to follow along with the class, she's actually still at an SK level, in grade 1. She shuts down so easily and if she's in a bad mood good luck getting her to do anything. We do as well follow a reward chart. Every time she does something "good" like maybe helping her sister, asking for help, opening the door, anything of good gesture and also minor responsibilities such as getting dressed in the morning, eating and brushing her teeth, playing nicely and cleaning up. I try and give her something(we use stickers) every possible chance I get. She's 5 right now turning 6 at the end of this month, so right now she is expected to get 5 stickers out of like 10 responsibilities that she has. If she is to get 5 stickers a day for 6 days that's 30 stickers, we use Sunday as a "catch up" day and if she gets those 30 stickers we take her out to the dollar store and she can pick out anything she like, or she may decide to go out for lunch/dinner, etc. She tends to not care so much.
Her life is a complicated story no doubt. I understand how she may be feeling, more now, now that I've gotten all of yours' advises but now how do I deal with it. I just talked to a councelor today and all she said to me was to build the trust first. It'll be hard to deal with, but her main problem is trusting. So i am to constantly go to her while she's playing or in the bathroom, having a bath, eating, whatever she's doing, come in, and talk with her, see how she is, if she needs any help, and to remind her that I'm there if she needs me. She said that I will not be able to help her until she is willing to accept my help and that she won't accept my help if she thinks that I'm just going to "up and leave" just like everybody else did. Which to me makes total sense. But what do I do about all of the misbehaving in the mean time? I refuse to let her walk all over me because that's what she wants right? Control over the situation, control over her life, control of her surroundings, since she lost so much of it.
It breaks my heart too. Today there was a mother and a little boy walking down the street on our way home from school, and the little boy for whatever reason dropped to the ground kicking and screaming. The mother asked him to get up and he refused so she began to walk away, and the boy screamed louder, the 6 year old began to cry and begged me to let her help him find his mother. That he needed his mom and she was walking away from him. I really didn't know what to say to this because she has gone through the same thing, the difference was her mother walked away and never looked back, whereas this mother obviously did. (Just trying to teach her son that she was going to listen to it). All I could say to her was that his mom was right there for him and that it's great that she wants to help him but there's only so much she could do. Then she asked me if we could go to the police station to get a police man to help the boy. I said that we didn't need to, and I pointed at the boy and showed her that he was now quiet and walking with his mother. She calmed down.
This poor broken hearted soul, so young, so immature, just a child, and yet I can't help her because she doesn't trust me enough to let me into her life TO help her. No matter how hard I try she just won't let me in. I won't give up by all means but I need to reach for her at a different perspective and I'm out of options. I've been apart of her life for 4 years now and yet there's still no trust. I can't even say that I understand, I know how she MAY be feeling, but never will I understand HOW she actually feels because I've never experienced all of this for myself. You know?
One last thing---- do you do any posative reinforcement with her? A reward chart in which she earns a special activity she likes to do, beans in a jar for good behavior winning a small prize or activity, or coins for good deeds that she can bank and buy herself something? This can be motivating.
Oh I feel so sorry for this little girl. I would guess that she was abused or neglected from her behavior. She's been bounced around as she had bio mom, foster mom and bio dad----- three different homes in 6 years. That really is a lot. This little girl has seen a hard life no matter how you cut it. And unfortunately, whether her bio mom abused/neglected her or not---- she feels that loss. That is sad. What is a little girl with immature emotions to do----- act out.
Plus you've added a new child into the mix (the one year old). Jealousy can account for some changes in behavior (the potty problems, for example) as well. She does seem to want your attention---- but also could be really testing the boundaries. Her rules have changed a few times now.
As far as mental illness or ODD. You are being told by psychiatrists that it is doubtful she has bipolar. Well, they are now aware of a genetic predisposition to it and are watching. As far as ODD----- I am not sure why you would want it to be ODD. Medication does NOT work for ODD. She would need behavioral therapy and ODD is very tough to overcome. I don't know if she has this or just is very angry with the life she has had thus far. When you say play therapy---- are you speaking of occupational therapy? My son does occupational therapy which is therapy through play for a developmental delay called sensory integration disorder which affects his nervous system. He had many meltdowns and has them still occasionally---- but his nervous system was not functioning properly. He's almost 6 now and doing well with occupational therapy. What types of evaluations have they done at school? If disruptive behavior is taking place there, they will screen her. You can request it too. She could be screened for speech, psychological and occupational therapy (for sensory, motor planning, motor skills in general). I would request the whole thing as most states only evaluate every 3 years.
As far as enjoying you two fighting, Kids will laugh and smile when adults fight because it makes them very uncomfortable. It is a nervous reaction. Try not to fight in front of her. (documented fact).
So, I say good for you for taking this child under your wing. Remember, she's not had it easy thus far. Please try to hang onto your compassion and patience. I'm sure it is hard----- but somehow you've been given this opportunity to save a child. Take some breaks for yourself and know you will be an angel for helping her. Good luck
Plus you've added a new child into the mix (the one year old). Jealousy can account for some changes in behavior (the potty problems, for example) as well. She does seem to want your attention---- but also could be really testing the boundaries. Her rules have changed a few times now.
As far as mental illness or ODD. You are being told by psychiatrists that it is doubtful she has bipolar. Well, they are now aware of a genetic predisposition to it and are watching. As far as ODD----- I am not sure why you would want it to be ODD. Medication does NOT work for ODD. She would need behavioral therapy and ODD is very tough to overcome. I don't know if she has this or just is very angry with the life she has had thus far. When you say play therapy---- are you speaking of occupational therapy? My son does occupational therapy which is therapy through play for a developmental delay called sensory integration disorder which affects his nervous system. He had many meltdowns and has them still occasionally---- but his nervous system was not functioning properly. He's almost 6 now and doing well with occupational therapy. What types of evaluations have they done at school? If disruptive behavior is taking place there, they will screen her. You can request it too. She could be screened for speech, psychological and occupational therapy (for sensory, motor planning, motor skills in general). I would request the whole thing as most states only evaluate every 3 years.
As far as enjoying you two fighting, Kids will laugh and smile when adults fight because it makes them very uncomfortable. It is a nervous reaction. Try not to fight in front of her. (documented fact).
So, I say good for you for taking this child under your wing. Remember, she's not had it easy thus far. Please try to hang onto your compassion and patience. I'm sure it is hard----- but somehow you've been given this opportunity to save a child. Take some breaks for yourself and know you will be an angel for helping her. Good luck
I agree with Sarah. Her behavior seems like a natural reaction to her life.
WIthout knowing why FACS removed her from her father's house a year after her mother left, it seems pretty clear that this child is in a rage. She probably feels abandoned by both parents, raised in foster care while her dad continued his life and got a girlfriend and created a new family with a baby, who has an intact home. Meanwhile, she's in foster care this whole time.
You say she was a normal little girl at 3. The kids I know who have ODD or any other mood disorder/chemical disorder expressed it before 3.
She's enraged, and is doing whatever she can to hurt back. I think the therapy needs to focus on getting the family functioning, and not "fixing" her - because her reaction seems like a fair and balanced one, to me.
WIthout knowing why FACS removed her from her father's house a year after her mother left, it seems pretty clear that this child is in a rage. She probably feels abandoned by both parents, raised in foster care while her dad continued his life and got a girlfriend and created a new family with a baby, who has an intact home. Meanwhile, she's in foster care this whole time.
You say she was a normal little girl at 3. The kids I know who have ODD or any other mood disorder/chemical disorder expressed it before 3.
She's enraged, and is doing whatever she can to hurt back. I think the therapy needs to focus on getting the family functioning, and not "fixing" her - because her reaction seems like a fair and balanced one, to me.
I think its more about getting attention than some medical problem. She wants attention so she found that she can get it by being bad.
The situation is a little confusing to me though, you say the mother left her to your partner but then you say she was in a foster home and then you talk about a custody battle? maybe Im just not getting the way you explained it but all that doesnt make much sense to me. What exactly was going on?
But anyway, have you ever tried spending one on one time with her? After what she's been through she will need a little extra tlc. Just put yourself in her shoes. Stuff like this is tough on a kid.
The situation is a little confusing to me though, you say the mother left her to your partner but then you say she was in a foster home and then you talk about a custody battle? maybe Im just not getting the way you explained it but all that doesnt make much sense to me. What exactly was going on?
But anyway, have you ever tried spending one on one time with her? After what she's been through she will need a little extra tlc. Just put yourself in her shoes. Stuff like this is tough on a kid.
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