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599170 tn?1300973893

cholesterol

Hi my total cholesterol is 202, borderline my good cholesterol is bad, and its moderatley bad forget the number. My good cholesterol LDL??? is  very very good. 67? sound right? anyways Im on Lipitor 20 mg at bedtime. i cannot start any herbals or viatmins till 2 weeks post op ( surgery on neck July24th) but Im interested in lowerint my total cholesterol and good choleserol to proper and infact much lower limits.

I am a veggie, I eat no eggs, (just cause I hate them) I eat dairy. nuts, all whole grains fresh veggies cooked or raw, lots of brown rice and beans, fruit, yup some junk too not much.
never ever oil other than olive...so my problem is not diet its hereditary..

anything I can do Im so close to normal range, cept the good LDL? I will post that number will phone dr monday it was concerning to him

anyways Im open to any options and would like to hear any success stories, would love to eliminate lipitor , but right now its preventing me from stroke heart attack risk.
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jazettakExternal User
your HDL is the good cholesterol and LDL is the bad cholesterol, If your are eat healthy I think its the dairy that is causing the problems. I was told that eating alot of veg. will raise your (bad) cholesterol and lower your good (HDL) cholesterol. If you are eating lots of bean then you are getting your protein but your really would not know what your cholesterol is really because you are taking medication to lower it. I was told cause i was eating like you but no dairy and no meats that i was getting too many carb. from veg. and not getting enough proteins cause i really wasn't eating bean alot. My LDL was high and HDL was perfect. Carbs from veg was making HDL good and increasing LDL which was bad.
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Avatar universal
Red meat for healthy hearts

Heart health may be as simple as "take two steaks--and call me in the morning."

In a big victory for the low-carb crowd, Indian researchers have found that vegetarians have a dramatically higher risk for heart disease, heart attack and stroke.

Since some 40 percent of the country is vegetarian--and less then a third eat meat regularly--they know a little something about the meat-free lifestyle over there. And while greens and beans are loaded with some fantastic nutrients, they're missing a few of the most critical ones--like heart-friendly vitamin B12.

And it shows.

The researchers say they examined 300 vegetarians at a Mumbai hospital, and found nearly all of them to be deficient in B12. That, in turn, caused high levels of the inflammation marker homocysteine, which has been linked to coronary heart disease, peripheral vascular disease and atherosclerosis.

Put it all together, and you've got patients at serious risk of clots, heart attacks and strokes. It's not a theoretical risk, either--the researchers say nearly 70 percent of the patients were already suffering from cardiac disease, or were at high risk of a heart attack in the immediate future.

What's more, the researchers said at the International Federation for the Surgery of Obesity and Metabolic Disorders in Los Angeles that their vegetarian patients had such low levels of B12 that they needed injections, not supplements.

The study didn't look at other B vitamins, but there are actually three of them that can help keep homocysteine levels in check: B12, B6 and folate. And while vegetarians can get folate from beans, peas and spinach, B6 is like B12--its best natural sources are meat.

And that's just one of the reasons why low-carb diets are so heart healthy.

Low-carb diets rich in natural meats can also help you lose weight, bring your blood pressure down to normal levels and even keep your cholesterol levels in check--all of which adds up to a lower risk of heart problems.

Vegetarians miss out on all that--but they can gain some ground by enjoying extra dairy products like milk, eggs and cheese and working a good supplement into their regimen.

Vegans have a much tougher road--most of them have to rely on supplements and protein powders to stay healthy.

And since the B vitamins have also been linked to mood, memory and energy in addition to cardiovascular health, make sure you're getting enough of them--no matter what kind of lifestyle you live.
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Avatar universal
No, nobody seems to have researched long-term problems with it.  Of course, if my quack psychiatrist had known what to do, I'd probably be still on it but would have been spared three years of a destroyed life that nobody knows how to repair.  Or at least won't admit it.  And you're right, doctors often diagnose these days by giving a prescription and seeing if it works.  The animals run the zoo, so to speak.
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458072 tn?1291415186
Pax,

I have the same issues thanks to paxil. In all your research, hasn't anything shown up to counteract all the side effects of that horrid poison?  

The thing is, if the doc had done a little blood work, he would have found out I have hypothyroidism, and a whole lot of mess would have been abverted....but no....we have to give Rx's. thats what drs do, you know. They aren't in the healing business anymore.....but thats a whole different post.....
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363281 tn?1643235611
That is interesting, Pax, thanks for the information. Dog-gone pharmaceutical companies.
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Avatar universal
You know, that's great -- I never noticed the small print.  These companies are amazing!

Actually, here's the lovastatin story.  It was actually developed from the study of mushrooms, not red yeast rice, by a Japanese researcher -- many mushrooms traditionally used in oriental medicine also contain natural statins.  That researcher invented the pharmaceutical statin, which became lovastatin, making him a very rich man.  Then, the pharmaceutical company that patented lovastatin filed suit against purveyors of red yeast rice, a much more well known food than the mushrooms, claiming the red yeast rice supplement infringed on the lovastatin patent.  And guess what?  The pharmaceutical company won!  But some companies still have the guts to sell red yeast rice, and get around the patent infringement by making no claims for what it's for.  Isn't that cute?  So red yeast rice isn't really the original statin, it is one of several, but mushrooms were the original ones studied in the original statin research.
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363281 tn?1643235611
I had read in one of my journals that kelp supported both low and high thyroid, that is why I mentioned it. No, Red Yeast isn't Lovastatin, but it IS the same, it is the "original" statin and therefore not as strong and it DOES take longer to work, true. After the pharmaceutical companies get through with them, they are entirely different.  My naturopath teaches colleges courses at Bastry College and has studied extensivly about drugs, herbs and natural supplements. Anyway, who really knows how things are made, only our Lord knows as He made these herbs and such.  :-)

I never though either that Lovastatin lowered heart attack risk. Have you ever noticed the small print on TV, it says it doesn't. I hate the darn things, so no matter how good they are claimed to be, I refuse to take them. LOL, I am very stubborn at times.  :-)
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Avatar universal
Actually, for an overactive thyroid, kelp is not recommended -- no way to know how someone with an overactive thyroid will respond to iodine, which stimulates the thyroid.  And red yeast rice isn't the same as lovastatin.  It's not nearly as strong.  Natural products are never as strong as the pharmaceutical version.  It's why they take longer to work, are usually used in combination, not singly, and why they have such lower negative effects profiles.  As for the doctor who claims lovastatin lowers the risk of heart attack, I don't believe that's accurate information.  It lowers cholesterol, not necessarily the occurrence of heart attacks.  The two aren't the same thing, though doctors have been trained by pharmaceutical companies to say they are.  Cholesterol is just one factor among many in causing heart disease, and again, yours isn't high enough to require any pharmaceutical product.
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363281 tn?1643235611
Well, I do know that an underactive thyroid can contribute to high cholesterol. Kelp is great for both high and low thyroid function.

The red yeast rice is wonderful. Actually, like my Naturopath told me, it is the "original" statin without the side effects, in fact, it is the same as lovastatin, but it has not been ruined by running it through a lab and changing its chemical structure. The company, Thorne, in my opinion is the best.
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599170 tn?1300973893
very interesting inro, my dr did say lipitor lowers heart attack/stroke possibility,,,I notice that Im just maintaing I really want off the lipitor gonna speak w dr and try some alternatives, I am hypothroid does this play into anything regarding any of the supplements. I like the red yeast rice idea.
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Avatar universal
But any way you look at it, unfortunately all cooking destroys the lecithin, which is the highest quality lecithin, far better than what is found in soy.  Unfortunately, industrial agriculture makes eating raw eggs too scary, for me anyway.  Not that I eat many anyway.
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Avatar universal
Boy, do I ever. Don't know what happened.  I was being treated for anxiety attacks.  Paxil helped, but when the side effects interfered with my writing, I had my psychiatrist take me off it.  He tapered me off, but never told me about withdrawal, even when I started crumbling.  For the last three years I've been morbidly depressed, suffer constant anxiety, lost most of my sense of humor, lost some memory, feel tired and disoriented much of the time, and guess what?  My phobias are worse than ever.  It's an extreme case, that nobody seems to know how to deal with.  Just my luck.
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Avatar universal
There are no side effects I know of, but take as directed.  If you research mistletoe, one of the five herbs in the formula, you'll see some toxicity there, but herbalists know how to do this and the founder of Herb Pharm is one of the foremost herbalists in the world.  And yes, there are other products, but I always mention this one because I saw it work with a lot of people.  I can't vouch for the other products, but there's a slew of them.  Sassy mentioned red yeast rice and I also mentioned guggul.  Some people swear by garlic, though frankly the research hasn't been good.  Natural treatment is a combination of things -- exercise, finding the right diet for a particular individual, etc.  It's never just one thing, or at least seldom.
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499534 tn?1328704178
I agree with Paxiled's info and just want to add: I think that the medical community is putting WAY too much attention on cholesterol levels .....and too quick to shove everyone on cholesterol lowering drugs! Its an epidemic of people that are borderline high and a little high being put on these meds. I personally think it is rediculous and think the ranges are hoopla. Just my opinion of course. :)
I have seen great results with red yeast rice along with a good brand of fish oils.

Heh Pax- do you suffer neurological problems from the paxil?
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Avatar universal
Sassy, I also use red yeast rice, combined with guggul, an ayurvedic herb, though I use one made by Solaray.  I think if I remember correctly that Bionic Man reported that statins don't decrease heart attacks, they just reduce cholesterol.  So what's the point?  That's also the belief in the natural medicine community.  And I take fish oil, though I use Nordic Naturals, not Carlson.  Both very good companies.  I never had a cholesterol problem until Paxil gave me one, and my cholesterol levels went to about what the poster reports, but I would never have resorted to medication for such a low level.  Instead, I successfully raised my HDL, and as the poster eats a lot of colored vegetables, as I do, I figure she has plenty of antioxidants to protect the cholesterol from oxidizing and thereby sticking to blood vessel walls.  Anyway, when I quit Paxil, the cholesterol came back down, though it destroyed my life in every other way!
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363281 tn?1643235611
I forgot to add, the Red Yeast Rice lowered my cholersterol almost 60 points and I had no side effects, not bad, huh?
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363281 tn?1643235611
Great post Pax

I think the cholesterol number is great, I am usually in that range too. I take a "Natural" Statin, I will NOT take a Statin, way too dangerous, and besides, it has been documented in some health journals that is does not help women, just men and the test results are those that were taken on men.  The one I take is by "Thorne" and it is called "Red Yeast Rice" it is great, Margy, I would try this if you are concerned about cholesterol levels. I take Carlson Fish Oil, it is great for inflammation and for the triglycerides.

I tried lecithin, but, being I am so allergic or sensitive to soy, all it did was give me a horrific tummy ache.

My doctor is a Naturopath, and they are more lenient in the cholesterol numbers than a regular doc. They are more concerned with other factors that are very important, such as High sensitivity CRP levels, homeocysteine, fibrinogen, triglycerides and the LDL and HDL.
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535822 tn?1443976780
He y Pax is that the only natural supplement for lowering cholesterol, the LInden Mistletoe and does it have side effects you know of.
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Avatar universal
This is obviously complicated, so you might be best off seeing a holistic nutritionist.  On the other hand, since I don't have the genetic ability to keep my mouth shut, here's some possibilities.  First, if you're on Lipitor, you probably won't find an herbal program for you because most herbalists or naturopaths would be too afraid of lowering your cholesterol too much -- drugs are a whole lot stronger than natural remedies.  So I won't recommend any natural cholesterol lowering herbs that might help.  Secondly, the good cholesterol is called HDL; LDL is the bad cholesterol, although the worst is triglycerides.  Fish oil is a good way of further elevating HDL, but I wouldn't start it until after surgery since it's also a blood thinner.  Thirdly, if a vegetarian diet is wrong for you it could very well elevated cholesterol.  One theory, for example, is that of blood type.  Some believe that a person's blood type helps determine which foods are most appropriate for that person.  I think it's still a generalization, but I've seen people with, for example, O blood types switch from being vegetarian with very good results after developing cholesterol problems.  Eskimos and Plains Indians ate almost all animal, and have few cholesterol problems.  So just because you're a vegetarian doesn't mean that's what's right for you.  Now, that doesn't mean I know what's right for you, just that vegetarianism is a philosophy, not a system of healthy eating.  Quite frankly, we don't have a proven system of healthy eating.  It probably differs by the person.  Finally, if you have a borderline cholesterol problem such as yours, Lipitor is probably a bad idea.  Your levels really don't suggest any imminent problems, and since the Lipitor is interfering with your absorption of fat soluble nutrients and the job of cholesterol in making your hormones, it's not necessarily reducing the chances of heart disease, just helping with cholesterol.  The two issues aren't the same.  It's too bad Bionic Man has been banished from this forum, along with all his posts, but he put up some very persuasive arguments against statins which I share.  While they can lower cholesterol, they also leach vital heart nutrients from the body, particularly CoQ10, which provides the energy to the heart muscle.  Also, eggs don't raise cholesterol.  Not saying you should eat them, just that the evidence shows they may actually lower bad cholesterol if eaten in moderation (of course, they're best eaten raw, though I ain't going there, because raw egg yolk contains the highest quality lecithin available, a nutrient that lowers bad cholesterol).

Now, if you stop the Lipitor, and aren't attached to a vegetarian diet for religious reasons, then try adding fish oil and fish to your diet and see if it helps.  There's also a good supplement made by Herb Pharm called Linden Mistletoe compound that has helped many lower their cholesterol.  Of course, increased exercise is also important.  Whatever you choose to do, good luck and good health.
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