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Chronic Kidney Failure in Dogs Community
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7622073 tn?1409085258

Sammie Update

Thanks Tony for teaching me how to post.  So...the Sammie update.  She is down to 7.8 lbs.....most of her life she was steady at 13.5 lbs.....poor baby is so skinny.  The vet's comment was "she a little bit worse" but not as bad as she was at the beginning of the year.  Her red cell count is slightly up,  Her crea is 3.2,,,,,,in January it was 4.9.....went down to 2.8...now up to 3.2.   Bun is 84.....in January it was 108...went down to 68....now 84.

Vet wants us to try to get her weight up....suggested the cottage cheese.  She does not want to start the fluids yet...feels it's not time.  Sammie eats 5 to 6 times a day and she said feed her more often if she wants it.  Tony...I'm going to read your article and see if I can find other things to give her.  

I was concerned about giving her too much protein but vet said recent studies show that if the body isn't getting enough protein, it takes it from somewhere else in the body and that affects other organs.  It's such a balancing act!!

That's all for now.....any suggestions are MORE than welcome.

Regards,
Charlene and Sammie

134 Responses
1916673 tn?1420233270
Hi Charlene ... and Hi Sammie. Yes, the protein debate is a complex one. While low protein diets are generally a good idea, it is only because the damaged kidneys have problems processing protein - BUT only because poor quality protein contains lots of elements that stress the kidneys, and typically processed dog food contains LOW quality proteins. Specialised manufactured kidney diet dog foods tend to be low in protein, but the protein is a much higher quality, so much easier for the kidneys to deal with.

Dogs do need protein, because it helps metabolise carbohydrates into energy and/or helps to store it as adipose tissue (and consequently helps put weight on Sammie). High quality protein is in all human grade meats, so these are always worth buying as an alternative to special kidney diet dog foods.

Dogs don't metabolise carbohydrates as well as fatty meats - which is why I always recommend keeping the skin on chicken and/or going for fatty meats such as pork, lamb and beef. Green tripe is, as you know, a favourite of mine, because not only does it supply great nutrients, it is also low in phosphorus and high in probiotics (good for the kidneys).

More about diet is in the article, which I hope helps:

http://www.infobarrel.com/How_Diet_Affects_Dogs_with_Chronic_Kidney_Disease

You are right, it IS a balancing act. There is no doubt Sammie is doing very well and while his levels are jumping slightly, it is not extreme. Your vet is right, getting more weight on is important, because it provides energy, warmth and comfort and keeps the organs working as well as they can.

Tony
1916673 tn?1420233270
Sorry Sammie ... HER levels ... that should have been. Tony x
9214378 tn?1408881584
Hi Charlene,

I've read Sammie's update and Tony's post. I send you my best wishes and hope you find the perfect balance for Sammie's diet.

I am confused about the IV fluids. Sammie is so small, I would hope they would suggest a minimal amount of fluids with a smaller needle. In the beginning, I purchased the (fluid bag, "Ringers") and had the staff help me with Darbie every few days. Actually, I'm going to start a new post. As I reflect over the past 6 months, I do question "why"...

Fondly,
Lynne & Darbie

7622073 tn?1409085258
Hi Lynne and Tony:

The doctor said she wants to wait just a little longer before we start the fluids.  Unfortunately, Sammie has had a bad couple of days.  Vomited several times (but still wans to eat!!).  Seems more lethargic.  In the middle of the night she couldn't get comfortable and her stomach was making awful squirting noises.  If not better in morning....back to the vet.  Oh this horrible disease!!!

Charlene
9214378 tn?1408881584
Hi Charlene,

This sounds similar to Darbie's bad days, but Sammie's good appetite is very encouraging! Out of desperation, we paced out Darbie's water intake every few minutes and fed her pieces of low sodium Ritz crackers, which she accepted, thank goodness. (As a child, I recall getting ginger ale and saltines, so I hoped for the best.) This method did stop the vomiting and at least sustained her until we could encourage her to eat again.

I hope this morning is better for you...Always, our thoughts and prayers are with you!

Fondly,
Lynne and Darbie

Fondly,
1916673 tn?1420233270
I'm following your posts. Sounds to me like those bad days are still every now and then, which is the best you can expect. Just remember, it's the good days that count, and I think you are doing brilliant jobs of looking after your best friends. Hope Sammie feels better today, Charlene.

Tony x
9214378 tn?1408881584
Hey Charlene,

Sending you hugs and "thump" of tail ( Love, Darbie to All )

Fondly,
Lynne & Darbie



7622073 tn?1409085258
Thanks Lynne and Tony.....we might have figured out the problem.....keep ypur fingers crossed.  I thought I was being such a good Mom by cutting up fresh green beans ffrom our garden. I started noticing when she vomited that  the bean portion of the grren bean was coming up undigested.  I think our beans were too big and the bean part was too much for her tummy.  I made a new batch of food and used unsalted canned green beans...much more soft!!  She did okay today so we're hoping we figured it out!!
7622073 tn?1409085258
Sorry for the typos above (I hate typos).  I hit a wrong button on my tablet!!  Anyway....thanks for always checking in....you guys keep me going.

Hope Darbie is doing well, Lynne.

Regards,
Charlene
9214378 tn?1408881584
How uncanny....Each day I make a point of examining Darbie's stool for "abnormalities". I couldn't imagine what I fed her that looked like corn kernels?!  This morning I realized it was the beans from the snow pea pods! Now, I'm laughing because it's like I wrote your post for you! My guess is you did figure it out and that's a great feeling! I'm sure Sammie is very forgiving:)

Fondly,
Lynne & Darbie
9214378 tn?1408881584
Actually, they are SUGAR SNAP PEAS, which are large, but I lightly steam 1-2 and dice up in her meals...Go figure, I must cut around the bean itself! I will be cautious too and check out the unsalted canned green beans.

Thanks again!
7622073 tn?1409085258
Our dogs are walking the same route!!!!

Unfortunately, I now don't think it's the beans.  I bought unsalted canned ones and mushed them....she still vomited.  Last night I mixed the chicken and tapioca with mashed sweet potato and she hasn't vomited.  Hope the sweet potato is okay for her.

Give Darbie hugs from Sammie!!

Regards,
Charlene
1916673 tn?1420233270
Hi. Just wanted to confirm that sweet potato should only be given in VERY small quantities. They are quite high in phosphorus (about 40mg per serving), which will impact on the kidneys. Dogs do love sweet potato, so it's worth considering chopping maybe a dessert spoon of sweet potato up and mixing it with kd diet food or suitable meats or poultry to encourage eating.

Tony
7622073 tn?1409085258
Tony:

How bad would it be if I just gave her the chicken and Tapioca or ground pork with tapioca.  Will that hurt her kidneys?

Charlen
1916673 tn?1420233270
Tapioca is low in phosphorus, so that's fine. Chicken or pork should be human grade, meaning you can buy it for humans to eat, which means in turn that the protein content is much higher quality and therefore easy on the kidneys. Tony
9214378 tn?1408881584
Hey Charlene

I hope Sammie has been feeling better and managing to hold her food down. Everyday is a quest to find the winning combination. Darbie has turned back on to the whole milk plain yogurt, so I'm grateful for that. I'm going to remember the tapioca when needed!

Darbie has an appt Aug 11 for CKD bloodwork. At this time, I sense she may be fighting a UTI, so I have a urine sample ready to go. She gets a daily round of IV fluids, but although she "sulks", she tolerates well and gets a new squeaky toy. Yes, I have no boundaries when it comes to spoiling:)

We're thinking of you!

Lynne and Darbie
7622073 tn?1409085258
Thanks Tony.
7622073 tn?1409085258
whoops....there goes my tablet again!   Thanks Tony.....I am only cooking human quality chicken without antibiotics, etc etc.  I'll try just that and the tapioca.

Charlene
7622073 tn?1409085258
We'll  be thinking of you and Darbie!!  I hope it isn't a UTI...those are so uncomfortable!!  

There's no such thing as spoiling our babies!!  They deserve whatever we do...but I undertand.  No boundaries here either!

Prayers and wags,

Charlene, Sammie and Bonnie
9214378 tn?1408881584
YIPEE!!

No presence of UTI! We were almost finished with the antibiotic therapy when Darbie got sick on vacation and refused foods and meds. I maintained cleaning her with baby wipes after her #'s, but I feared we did not get enough antibiotic in her. So, even after several weeks, she has tested clean! I'm very happy as I'd hate to see her compromised any further. Grateful her immune system is strong! You can bet she got a new toy after that call:)

Thanks for your continued prayers & wags!

Fondly,
Lynne & Darbie
1916673 tn?1420233270
Lynne, that's great news. Well done you ... and Darbie.

Tony x
7622073 tn?1409085258
Oh Lynne.....thank goodness!!!!  Darbie doesn't need anything else to deal with!!!  Such good news!!

Charlene
9214378 tn?1408881584
Thanks Charlene!

As this forum is for Sammie's update, please let us know how she's doing every few days. I am always watching out for her, as I know you watch for Darbie, too:)

Please give Sammie & Bonnie special TLC from the 2 of us!

Fondly,
Lynne & Darbie
7622073 tn?1409085258
Hi Lynne....thanks for thinking of Sammie......right now she's having a good couple of days after bad days last week.  My husband and I really thought we were at the end....but as happens so often with this disease, she seems to have pulled out of it.  So grateful for the good days and every day she's with us....I know it's the same for you and Darbie.

Sammie and Bonnie send kisses to Darbie.

Regards,
Charlene
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