IT'S ALEX TREBEK! THIS IS THE QUESTION!!!!!!

[deepdiver]

IS SOY A HEALTH FOOD?

[Paxiled]

Soy is one of the most common food allergens.  My wife absolutely cannot digest tofu (or most beans, for that matter).  We are all individuals, my argument was just about soy in general, not for any specific person.  

[SassyLassie]

Well, for me, soy is a death sentence, no matter how good or bad it may be. I seem to be able to tolerate it in some foods, but, for the most part, it is instant tummy ache when I take supplements with soy oil in them or eat beef that has soy in it, oh yes, chickens fed with soy are a loaded gun too.

I have tummy problems anyway that we are working on, and that darned soy just makes things worse. Plus, it also can act like the hormone estrogen is some woman. NOPE for me, soy is DEATH.

[deepdiver]

What's so bad about soy? Well, it contains lots of phytic acid, an acid which can also be found in yeast bread but not in sourdough bread. Sourdough bread is a fermented bread which contains lactic acid bacteria and so does fermented soy. Besides eating the sugars in the starch these bacteria also eat the phytic acid. If left intact, phytic acid acts as a mineral blocker. It blocks the absorption of important minerals like iron, zinc, magnesium and calcium. Feeding babies with a so-called lactose allergy soy milk is an absolute disaster. Kids and adults would also do wise to avoid taking unfermented soy.

Fermented soy products are soy sauce (watch out for other harmful ingredients such as sugar, MSG, preservatives and colorants), miso and tempeh. Particularly, Japanese cuisine is very good with fermented soy. Bad news for vegetarians and vegans who often turn to tofu and associated soy products. They too fall victim to the propaganda of a very profitable industry.

[Paxiled]

You still haven't answered my question -- why do people who eat the most unfermented soy live the longest and healthiest lives?  Also, eating soy will get you very little in the way of isoflavones -- the only way to get a lot is to take it as a supplement.  This is especially true in the highly processed soy foods you mentioned.  Also, since people eat a whole lot more grains than soy, they get a whole lot more phytic acid from grains.  Nobody eats a ton of beans at one sitting!  But they do eat a lot of grain, as it's the staple food.  Also keep in mind that osteoporosis isn't the problem in soy eating countries the way it is in the US, where dairy consumption and meat consumption is much higher.  They also suffer much less anxiety, depression, and heart disease, indicating they're getting plenty of magnesium.  On the other hand, when Japanese, for example, eat more like Americans or move to the US, they begin to suffer these problems at the same levels as Americans.  So it isn't the soy.

I've heard this argument for years and years -- so by now all Japanese and Chinese should be suffering mental retardation.  Obviously, they're not.  So again, where's the beef?  I just don't agree with this one, Deep.

[deepdiver]

Hello Paxiled,
Soy is not the health food that you think it is.
From tofu and tacos to baby formula and burgers, soy products have swept the nation as a healthy source of protein, with a reputation for being all natural and good for you. New studies have however raised questions over whether the ingredients in soy might increase the risk of breast cancer in some women, affect brain function in men and lead to hidden developmental ab-normalities in infants.

The core of their concerns rests with the chemical makeup of soy: in addition to all the nutrients and protein, soy contains a natural chemical that mimics estrogen, the female hormone. Some studies in animals show that this chemical can alter sexual development. And in fact, 2 glasses of soy milk/day, over the course of one month, contain enough of the chemical to change the timing of a woman’s menstrual cycle.
Isoflavones in soybeans

Soybeans contain an impressive array of phytochemicals (biologically active components derived from plants), the most interesting of which are known as isoflavones. Isoflavones are the compounds which are being studied in relation to the relief of certain menopausal symptoms, cancer prevention, slowing or reversing osteoporosis and reducing the risk of heart disease.

Soy critics point to the fact that soybeans, as provided by nature, are not suitable for human consumption. Only after fermentation for some time, or extensive processing, including chemical extractions and high temperatures, are the beans, or the soy protein isolate, suitable for digestion when eaten.

Soybeans also reportedly contain an anti-nutrient called "phytic acid", which all beans do. However, soybeans have higher levels of phytic acid than any other legume. Phytic acid may block the absorption of certain minerals, including magnesium, calcium, iron and zinc. Epidemiological studies have shown that people in 3rd World Countries who have high consumption of grains and soy also commonly have deficiencies in these minerals. It must also be noted that this may be of particular concern with regard to babies who are using soy-based infant formulas.
What is the truth when it comes to soy?

So how does one get to the truth when it comes to soy? Usually, the first question I ask is… "Where is the money? Who has something to be gained from one side or the other?" With the soy issue, there does not seem to be an easy answer here either… and that's because there appear to be strong financial incentives on both sides of the argument.

Who has something to gain from the consumption of soy? Perhaps companies like Monsanto which produce the genetically modified soybean seeds. Perhaps companies like Cargill Foods or SoyLife which produce countless soy-based foods. Or soybean councils in several states which represent farmers who grow this new, emerging bumper crop. And, of course, all of the companies which are constructing factories all over the world to do the processing which is necessary to make soybeans edible.
Soy - more negatives than positives

I feel the positive aspects of the soybean are overshadowed by their potential for harm. Soybeans in fact contain a large number of dangerous substances. We already mentionned "phytic acid", also called "phytates". This organic acid is present in the bran or hulls of all seeds and legumes, but none have the high level of phytates which soybeans do. Phytic acid blocks the body's uptake of essential minerals like magnesium, calcium, iron and especially zinc. Adding to the high phytate problem, soybeans are highly resistant to phytate-reducing techniques, such as long, slow cooking.

Soybeans also contain potent enzyme-inhibitors. These inhibitors block uptake of trypsin and other enzymes which the body needs for protein digestion. Normal cooking does not de-activate these harmful antinutrients, which can cause serious gastric distress, reduced protein digestion and can lead to chronic deficiencies in amino acid uptake.

In addition, soybeans also contain hemagglutinin, a clot-promoting substance which causes red blood cells to clump together. These clustered blood cells cannot properly absorb oxygen for distribution to the body's tissues, and are unable to help in maintaining good cardiac health.

Hemagglutinin and trypsin inhibitors are both "growth depressant" substances. Although the act of fermenting soybeans does de-activate both hemagglutinin and trypsin inhibitors, cooking and precipitation do not. Although these enzyme inhibitors are found in reduced levels within precipitated soy products like tofu, they are not completely eliminated. For this reason, if you are going to consume soy, I would recommend limiting your soy use to fermented products only, like tempeh or miso.

[Paxiled]

Deep Diver, the Japanese, Vietnames, Thai peoples, Chinese, and Indonesians have been living largely on soy for protein for longer than any western civilization has existed.  Shouldn't they all be dead?  Granted, in Indonesia, it's mostly tempeh, but in China and Japan it's mostly tofu, which is not fermented, soy milk, which is not fermented, edamame, which is not fermented.  Miso is eaten in very small quantities.  I've been hearing this negative information on soy for so long, but it defies common sense.  Japanese live the longest of anyone on Earth, and they eat tofu and edamame nearly every day.  

Now, are there people who shouldn't eat soy?  Yes -- it's a common allergen, for one thing.  But so are a lot of foods.  Traditional Asian medicine prohibits the eating of tomatoes, potatoes, eggplant, peppers, etc., as all are of the nightshade family, considered poisonous.  Are they poisonous?  Who knows?  They didn't kill off the Incas, the Spanish did.  They didn't kill off the Aztecs, the Spanish did.  

Of course, you're right about D3.  They did the same thing with Vitamin E and kept selling it, even though everyone knew it didn't work.  Pharmaceutical companies will sell anything that can be patented.  You can't patent the natural thing.  That's why you can't trust most Vitamin E studies, they used the synthetic form, or just D alpha instead of the complex.  Food is more complicated than our science.  At least so far.

On the other hand, I do take D3 supplements because in today's society, we don't get out in the sun that much anymore, particularly during the hours when Vitamin D is formed.  But then, I take a lot of supplements, I'm sort of a guinea pig to myself -- kind of happens to those of us who worked in health food stores.

[elcyd]

For people suffering with dysfunctional thyroids, soya is not a good idea as it grows lumps.  My 3cm nodule on my goitre grew very quickly when I started to substitute milk for soya milk. (Not good for people who have fibroids either)

As well as that alot of soya is coming from South America where virgin forest is being cut down so there are environmental consequences to the increase of soya product in our foods.

[PlateletGal]

I don't purchase anything that is "fortified" with vitamin D (or anything else for that matter). Like Dr. Oz said, "fortified" means that they took out the vitamins in the product and then sprinkled a few of them back ! It really makes sense, doesn't it ? (yikes!)

My thoughts on vitamin D. Despite the fact that I personally don't care for Dr. Trevor Marshall.... I have to agree with his theory about intracellular bacteria and vitamin D dysregulation in chronically ill patients.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080125223302.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trevor_Marshall

[deepdiver]

Stellaaaaaaaaa,
You're off for Easter, you must be a student or teacher!!

[laura1967]

It is crazy out there with soy in everthing!! As thyroid patient I try to limit my soy intake which stella and i have both found to be incredibly hard.....it is in everything!!  I know I am repeating myself! :)  LOL

Yes our good friend FDA.....who needs enemies?!

[stella5349]

Yeah - the FDA always has our backs on everything...............  (DUH!!)

Many would be amazed also that Vit D is really based as a hormone and not necessarily in the Vit family.

[deepdiver]

P.S. If you look at just about everything even some tea bags it has Soy!!!!
When my granddaughter was born  her digestive system wasn't fully mature and she couldn't drink formula. The DR. wanted to put her on Soy
and My son said no and they put her on a pre digested formula that is only made in England for about $400 a month for about 1 year!!!

[deepdiver]

Today it's soy, fortified with vitamin D – a combination just given the OK by the FDA. But soy comes in different forms, as does vitamin D, and BOTH of the forms in this instance are the wrong forms.

You've got to wonder…if I know this, and you know this, why in the world can't food industry professionals and the FDA get it right?
If you stop 10 strangers on the street and ask them if soy is health food, you'll probably get  an answer as yes, of course, everyone knows soy is healthy.

fermented soy is no problem. Tempeh, miso, and soy sauce (made in the traditional method) are fermented and fine.
phytates in unfermented soy products impede absorption of protein and four key minerals: calcium, magnesium, iron, and zinc. And you're going to need those minerals if you want to stay healthy.
But the public's perception of soy as health food just got a boost from the FDA with a newly published rule permitting soy beverages, soy-based cheese substitutes, and soy- based butter substitutes to be fortified with vitamin D.

Of course, D is the current Big Kahuna of the supplement world. Over the past two years, the e-Alert has followed vitamin D's rising star while study after study has revealed the remarkable health benefits linked to this sunshine vitamin.
So you can be sure you'll soon be seeing starburst notes emblazoned with "Now with Vitamin D!" on soy-based cheese products (etc.) at your local grocery.

They'll say it's health food, but it's junk.

Here's the one-two knockout punch…

Punch one: The soy products aren't fermented. Punch two: The products will be fortified with vitamin D2.

Ring the bell – this fight is over.

Fish consumption and exposure to sunlight deliver much-needed vitamin D3 to your body. But according to a brief history of vitamin D research that appeared in a 2006 issue of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, scientists created a synthetic form of the vitamin in the early 1920s when they manufactured vitamin D2 by exposing plant foods to ultraviolet light.

Within a decade, researchers began to notice that D2 was quite a bit less potent than D3. D2 was useful in eradicating rickets when added to milk in the 1930s, but as research methods were refined, it became clear that D3 was the superior form. In addition, the body retains D3 for longer periods and in higher concentrations than D2.

In their conclusions, the authors wrote: "The public expects to derive the equivalent effect per unit dose of vitamin D, whether it is vitamin D2 or vitamin D3. The scientific community is aware that these molecules are not equivalent. Therefore, vitamin D2 should no longer be regarded as a nutrient appropriate for supplementation or fortification of foods."

The scientific community is aware…but apparently food producers and the FDA are not.

[laura1967]

No it's a poison as far as I am concerned!

[stella5349]

NO WAY!!