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Avatar universal

Methylene Blue as Treatment

I found online an interesting patent application.  It is trying to patent the useage of high dose Methylene Blue as a cure for Hepatitis C.  The application reports results from a very small number of cases and recommends a twice daily dose on 65 mg (130 mg total) of Methylene Blue.  Expectation is that it is a two month treatment.  I have not found any reports of harm from taking this high of a dose of Methylene blue, but I'm not a researcher and might not entirely understand what I'm reading.

The application is here, including the study results.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2006/0264423.html
23 Responses
568322 tn?1370169040
Hepatitis C and human immunodeficiency virus RNA degradation by methylene blue/light treatment of human plasma.
Müller-Breitkreutz K, Mohr H.

Blood Center of the German Red Cross Chapters of NSOB, Institute Springe.

Abstract
Treatment of human plasma with methylene blue in combination with visible light (MB/light) inactivates several bloodborne viruses such as retro viruses and herpes viruses. The viral nucleic acid is thought to be a critical target for the inactivation procedure. We investigated the effects of photodynamic treatment on the RNA of hepatitis C virus (HCV) and human immunodeficiency virus type 1 (HIV-1) using Amplicor reverse transcriptase polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR), which detects and quantifies a small fragment of the viral RNA. The detectable HCV RNA load (5-nontranslated region) in infected human plasma declined by 94-97 % within 10 min of illumination in small-scale experiments (1-2 ml vol.). Since the same effect was observed in both anti-HCV positive and negative ("window") samples, it can be concluded that HCV antibodies do not influence virus inactivation by photodynamic treatment. The effect of treatment on RT-PCR signals of HIV-1, which is known to be inactivated rapidly by MB/light treatment, was examined. Plasma was infected with HIV-1 and subjected to RT-PCR, which detected a part of the gag gene. The extent and kinetics of PCR signal reduction induced by MB/light treatment were similar to those observed for HCV. Experiments at production scale where single plasma units (300 ml) were infected with HCV showed reduction rates of PCR signals consistent with those measured in the small-scale experiments. The data support the view that MB/light treatment affects the viral nucleic acids and suggest that HCV is susceptible to the procedure.

Avatar universal
if you are considering this instead of the proven treatment of Ribavirin, Peg-interferon and most likely one of the new drugs coming out next year, then all I can say is good luck.
Avatar universal
Declined 94-97% within 10 minutes but did not eliminate.  HCV virus multiplies by millions or is it billions each day so after 2 months and a supposed reduction in viral load does one jump immediately from the blue light to the interferon fight?  If not, what's the point?  

I still have HCV and last check my viral load was considered low but the virus is still ravaging my liver.

Trinity
179856 tn?1333550962
If it is not going to eradicate the virus completely, then it is senseless to treat it in this fashion as it will come immediately back. Personally I thought I had read it was trillions a day but I could be wrong. Either way this is not a viable treatment unfortunately.  It would be so nice and easy if it was.
1225178 tn?1318984204
My question is how are they going to shine this light into all of your blood vessels? Or are they going to do a bypass type thing and run the blood through some type of machine that has a light in it?

Diane
87972 tn?1322664839


Wikipedia quotes a replication rate of one trillion copies/patient day; I’ve seen this figure used in other documents as well:

“Replication of HCV involves several steps. The virus replicates mainly in the hepatocytes of the liver, where it is estimated that daily each infected cell produces approximately fifty virions (virus particles) with a calculated total of one trillion virions generated”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatitis_C_virus#Replication

I think the article above is interesting from a research perspective, although I’m not sure it’s ready for clinical application. A 2 log-10 reduction in virus over a 10 minute period of illumination sounds pretty intriguing to me; they apparently got similar results with a production-scale model? At first glance, it sounds worthy of further investigation; at least to my pea-brain.

Bill
1476285 tn?1287341384
Re: “If it is not going to eradicate the virus completely, then it is senseless to treat it in this fashion”
There is no guarantee that any of the current treatments such as Telaprevir, Interferon, Ribavirin or any combination thereof will "cure" anyone either. As a matter of FACT it is not called a "cure" but "undetectable". They still do not know if the virus may be hiding in other organs, mutated, may come back or at some point or become detectable as mechanisms to detect become more efficient. I have no idea what this stuff is mentioned on here but you seem to spend a lot of time squashing anyone's curiosity about looking into other options. You chose your path and hopefully it has worked for you. But that doesn't give you the right or the basis to say NOTHING else will work. Sure, this is probably off the charts but you never know what may work which is why people research various methods. And, what works for one person may not work for someone else. Look how many people did not clear HepC under your method. Anyone could just as easily be saying that doesn’t work. Granted you are all gung-ho because you are undetectable and that’s great – for you – and, if that was the solution for everyone - like you said “It would be so nice and easy if it was”.
Avatar universal
UND post 1 year tx is durable and I vehemently disagree with your statement that we do not know if SOC or the PI's will cure.  Actually, the PI's are designed to target and kill the virus, that is their job.  If you want get into occult virus, forget about it because who cares?  Occult virus if it exists doesn't advance fibrosis.

No virus = UND = Fibrosis stops =  Cure.  

One question -  What do you spend a lot of time doing?  Looking for a holistic approach? Have you found one that works yet?   Good luck with that but you'll never become UND which equals no virus to ravage the liver.

Trinity

Avatar universal
The results detailed in the patent application did not involve the use of light, just high dose Methylene Blue.  It seems certain that the application of light would enhance the effectiveness.  I expect that it would be possible to work up some sort of lazer light apparatus that could be used for short periods to give skin penetrating light to blood vessels.  I've seen reports that light in the red part of the spectrum is most effective.

In any case it would be a pretty low cost experiment with little risk of harm, at least from what I can find. It would be in the same category as trying the high dose liposomal vitamin C.  I wonder if they both could be used at the same time. I'll note for all that I'm not any sort of medical researcher or practitioner.
Avatar universal
The consideration is not whether to try Methylene Blue instead of a new drug "to become available next year."  As I understand it, drugs "to become available next year" are UNavailable this year.  It is not a question of "either / or" nor is it presented as "instead of" since the hoped for alternative is not available.
1225178 tn?1318984204
"A method for using thiazine dyes, especially methylene blue or methylene blue derivatives, in an immediate or controlled release formulation, alone or in combination with low levels of light or other drugs, to selectively inactivate or inhibit hepatitis infection, has been developed. Clinical trial results demonstrate efficacy in a human clinical trial for treatment of hepatitis C by oral administration of methylene blue immediate release formulation, in a dosage of 65 mg twice daily, over a period of at least 100 days. A method for using thiazine dyes, especially methylene blue or methylene blue derivatives, in an immediate or controlled release formulation, along or in combination with low levels of light or other drugs, to prevent or decrease reactivation of viruses, is also described. The preferred class of patient is infected with, or has been exposed to, viruses such as Herpes simplex virus type 1 & 2, Varicella zoster virus, Epstein-Barr virus, Cytomegalovirus, and Herpes virus type 6 & 7, Adenovirus, and Human polyoma viruses, e.g. JC virus and BK virus. In one embodiment the thiazine dye is administered to a patient experiencing symptoms or disease caused by reactivation of a virus. In a preferred embodiment the thiazine dye is administered to a patient at risk for or experiencing symptoms or disease caused by reactivation of a virus, prior to or during immunosuppression or chemotherapy."

Is this what you are talking about? It sounds a lot like Ribavirin. You might want to check out the sides for this stuff.

Diane
Avatar universal
You seem to have copied directly from the patent application, and then ask if that is what I was refering to when giving the link.  So, did you have a question.  

Is it your belief that Methylene Blue is Ribavirin?  There is no mention of Ribavirin within the application or the described study and results.  What exactly brought you to that conclusion?  Thanks.
Avatar universal
We've been told we can't be closed minded to these "alternative therapies".  I'm rather set on attempting that low voltage electro shock therapy right around Halloween time.  What do you think?  

Trin
1225178 tn?1318984204
I asked if it was what you were talking about because it doesn't give much info, and there is a mention of using it with light, which you said it didn't talk about.
No I don't think it IS Ribavirin, I meant that it sounds like it does the SAME thing that Ribavirin does.

A few side effects you may want to consider:


Drug Warnings:
Large IV doses of methylene blue may produce nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, precordial pain, dizziness, headache, hypertension, profuse sweating, mental confusion, and the formation of methemoglobin and cyanosis. Methylene blue must be injected slowly to prevent local high concentrations of the drug and production of additional methemoglobinemia. One authority reports that if the total methylene blue IV dosage exceeds 7 mg/kg, dyspnea, precordial pain, restlessness, apprehension, a sense of oppression, and fibrillar tremors may result. Methylene blue has caused hemolysis, especially in young infants and in patients with G-6-PD deficiency.
[American Society of Health System Pharmacists. AHFS Drug Information 2008. Bethesda, Maryland 2008] **PEER REVIEWED**

Long-term administration of methylene blue may result in marked anemia due to accelerated destruction of erythrocytes; hemoglobin concentrations should be checked frequently.
[American Society of Health System Pharmacists. AHFS Drug Information 2008. Bethesda, Maryland 2008] **PEER REVIEWED**

Diane
1225178 tn?1318984204
Note that the above states that a "large dose" is in excess of 7 mg/kg which is much smaller than 65mg twice a day.

Diane
Avatar universal
to copyman,

As far as I know there is no "company" promoting Methylene Blue.  The material is widely available at pretty cheap prices.  I sure hope your analysis of other ideas are more thorough than what you posted in your suggestion.
Avatar universal
To Diane,

The link is to a patent application.  I'm not sure I understand how the use of a well known medication and one long used for treatment of a number of illnesses can be patented.  However, in making the application they have tried to cover as wide a useage field as possible, and I suppose that is customary.

It would have been difficult, I know, for you to have continued reading the entire application.  If you had, you would have found the information of useage of MB in much higher doses than used here and the efficacy of it.  Further you would have had to continue to the end to find the results of the small study they are basing their claims on.  As to the light, they did not use it, just mention that it has been used in combination with MB to kill viruses.
  There is also mention of delayed release, pulsed release, combination useage, various dilutants, lubricants and binders that they want the patent application to cover.  None of these were used in the study either.

From the patent application:

Results:

Interim Results
The interim results were obtained on the first 9 patients in the methylene blue trial, out of 36 patients enrolled in total. The results showed 33% with a greater than or equal to two log reduction in viral load at 50 days of treatment; and 89% with between greater than or equal to 0.6 log to less than or equal to one 1 log reduction in viral load at 50 days of treatment. This indicates that 8 of 9 patients showed a drop in viral load of between 62%-100% within the first 50 days.

Results At 50 Days

23 patients had a decrease in viral count of between 70-100%. Two patients were non-responders at 50 days.

Of the responders:

12 (52%) had between 0.7-1 log reduction in viral load
6 (26%) had between 1-2 log reduction in viral load
5 (22%) had viral clearance

The results indicate that the methylene blue is highly efficacious in treating hepatitis C.
*******************

Another section of the patent application that you may have failed to read:

Drug Facts and Comparisons , page 1655 (J. B. Lippincott Co., St. Louis, Mo. 1989) reports that methylene blue is useful as a mild genitourinary antiseptic for cystitis and urethritis, in the treatment of idiopathic and drug-induced methemoglobemia and as an antidote for cyanide poisoning. Recommended dosages are 55 to 130 mg three times daily, administered orally. Oral absorption is 55% to 97%, averaging 74%, DiSanto and Wagner, J. Pharm. Sci. 61(7), 1086-1090 (1972). Pharmacopeia states that the recommended dose is 50 to 300 mg by mouth and 1 to 4 mg/kg body weight intravenously. Side effects include blue urine, occasional nausea, anemia and fever. American Hospital Formulary Service “Drug Information 88” states that the recommended intravenous dosage for children is 1 to 2 mg/kg body weight, injected slowly over several minutes, which can be repeated after an hour. 55 mg tablets are available from Kenneth Manne. 65 mg tablets are available from Star Pharmaceuticals. Methylene Blue Injection (10 mg/ml) is available from American Reagent, Harvey, Kissimmee, Pasadena.

Narsapur and Naylor reported in J. Affective Disorders 5, 155-161 (1983) that administrative of methylene blue orally, at a dosage of 100 mg b.i.d. or t.i.d., or intravenously, 100 mg infused over 10 min, may be effective in treating some types of mental disorders in humans, indicating that the dye may cross the blood-brain barrier and therefore have particular applicability in the treatment of viral infections of the brain and central nervous system. Methylene blue was administered for periods of one week to 19 months to adult humans, with minimal side effects.

The American Hospital Formulary Service “Drug Information 88” reports that methylene blue is absorbed well from the GI tract, with about 75% excreted in urine and via the bile, mostly as stabilized colorless leukomethylene blue. As reported by G. E. Burrors in J. Vet. Pharmacol. Therap. 7, 225-231 (1984), the overall elimination rate constant of methylene blue, in sheep, is 0.0076±0.0016 min −1 , with minimal methemoglobin production at doses as high as 50 mg/kg and no hematologic changes seen up to four weeks after a total dose of 30 mg/kg methylene blue. The 24 h LD 50 for intravenous methylene blue administered as a 3% solution was 42.3 mg/kg with 95% confidence interval limits of 37.3 to 47.9 mg/kg, demonstrating that methylene blue can be safely administered at a dosage of up to at least 15 mg/kg. As reported by Ziv and Heavner in J. Vet. Pharmacol. Therap. 7, 55-59 (1984), methylene blue crosses the blood-milk barrier easily.

U.S. Pat. No. 6,346,529 to Floyd, et al. describes the use of methylene blue and other thiazine dyes to inactivate HIV. It also demonstrates that the effect of the dye on different types of viruses is unpredictable, and that one cannot use results with one virus to predict efficacy with another. See Table 4, comparing efficacy against HIV with a lack of efficacy against Herpes Simplex Virus type 1 and type 2.

In contract, U.S. Pat. No. 5,545,516 to Wagner describes the inactivation of extracellular enveloped viruses in blood and blood components by phenthiazin-5-ium dyes plus light. The described process inactivates pathogenic contaminants in whole blood, plasma, cellular blood components, by adding a phenthiazin-5-ium dye(s) thereto and irradiating the dye-containing composition with light of wavelengths from 560 to 800 nm or red light, such that they are suitable for transfusion. Obviously the conditions for treating blood products in a laboratory, and the availability of a radiant light source are quite different from the conditions required to treat a patient with a chronic viral conditions such as hepatitis C

1225178 tn?1318984204
Do you see the dates on these references? 1989, 1972, 1983,1984

Yes, I read that... but things in medicine have changed dramatically since then and a lot of the things they used then are no longer used because problems came up with continued usage. I'm wondering why these people don't site much more recent studies. You might notice that what I posted above is dated 2008.

I also Googled Methylene Blue and read many articles on it... none talking about such large doses.

You can do whatever you want to do, but I would recommend that you look at the dates before you accept what you read.

Diane
Avatar universal
The section below is from wikipedia and it made my laugh remembering the effect that Alinia has on urine color.  It is quite unique.  If you combine Alinia and Methylend blue, the results could be very interesting. :>)

As a prank
It is, or was at one time, a common prank among college students in biomedical fields to spike someone's drink with methylene blue, thus creating amusement at the victim's expense when he reacts with alarm to his urine turning blue. With concern over date rape drugs, spiking someone's drink is considered far more serious than it used to be, and the prank has somewhat gone out of fashion.

This prank has been used in television shows; for example:

An episode of M*A*S*H, "Sons and Bowlers", showed Major Winchester using a dose of methylene blue to take down a rival camp's bowling champion—who had been a high-ranked professional bowler in civilian life—during a contest. The champ panics when his urine turns blue, and listens to Winchester's advice to refrain from all exercise – including bowling, which allows the 4077th to win. In an episode of "ER" from the 5th season they use it to play an April Fools' Day prank on the desk clerk Jerry.[34]

[edit] Adverse reactions
Avatar universal
I agree with evangelin, for some of us that can't do soc and probubly not even when the new meds come out any info on anything else is hopeful.

I don't post much in here mostly because I don't have anything useful to add to anything but I do come here to read and research and all info is welcome.
Avatar universal
MedHelp should be a safe place to discuss alternative therapies with *safe* being the operative word.  ALA, LDN, certain mushroom extracts and supplements all seem rather innocuous to me.  If those who can't or won't consider treatment to eradicate the virus want to consider supplements as an alternative to slow down fibrosis that is totally their decision and any benefit derived from it is a plus.  Testimony from you and some others, regardless of cost, seems to justify the benefit outweighs the cost.

However, I feel it is my obligation to question and at times refute some of the gadgets, contraptions and therapies presented on this forum because desperate people do desperate things.  By reading some of these posts is easy to see there are those that spend a lot time and perhaps a whole lot of money on what experienced heppers know is snake oil or just plain unsafe absurd notions of trying to eradicate the virus or stave off fibrosis.   Now keep in mind while researching, using or advocating alternatives other than interferon and ribavirin or the PI's, their liver might just harden up like cement due to advanced liver disease and the progression of fibrosis.  We hope they never turn yellow and blow up in the abdomen and puke blood which may cause death while all the time thinking they would be cured or saved from cirrhosis.  Certainly by not saying anything to prevent them from huge monetary loss with no gain or even their own demise would be a grave injustice.

Often times we see new posters on their first day in the forum telling people what they can and cannot say and then complain they don't feel welcome. Perhaps it's because they are spreading thier own particular brand of sunshine which many of us have been subject to and have acquired that particular photo sensitivity if you know what I mean.

Trinity

Avatar universal
Apparently you were able to have this report of a study regarding Hepatitis removed from the proper forum.  The moderators informed me that the Hepatitis forum was the proper location for fosts reporting study results.

Your implication that the study was the equivilant to snake oil is odd.  The company announcing the findings presented them at a well regarded medical conference.  They were later acquired by genzyme for $345 million.  That is not exactly a backyard garage operation.  The question should be "Why would find it useful to try to hide these results from those who need information."

A 1-log reduction in viral load represents a 90% reduction in virus.  Would that lead to less liver damage or slower liver damage?  It sure seems possible, but it is not a cure.  You seem to accept some of the claims concerning Alpha Lipoic Acid as being positive for reducing liver damage.  It is a far more expensive product than Methylene Blue as it is made using a patented process.

The dosage used for the blue urine pranks must be relatively high and would not be too hard to get someone to take.  Consider the size of a 1000 mg calcium tablet or 1000 mg fish oil capsule.  Then consider that the recommended dose of the Methylene Blue is about 1/15th that amount.  Getting someone to take a relatively large quantity one time for a prank would not be too difficult and I know of it haveing been done for college student fun.  This study report uses a much reduced recommendation.

If a safe dose is 7mg/kg of body weight, as reported by someone else (and that claim would seem to be suspect when other information is examined) then the 70 kg individual would be safe at a 490 mg dose.  The stuff sells for about $1 a gram at full retail in small lots.  At 150 mg a day that is an outlay of less than $0.15 per day.

Your expressed concerns about livers turning to cement are simply ill founded and amount to your personal views without any basis in fact, any more than your concerns about the costs of Methylene Blue.  It is just very unfortunate and various snot swappers want to control information and make it less available.

Avatar universal
I have read all the comments.  Everyone should be opened minded---What have you got to loose!  Go to Amazon and buy Methylene Blue for $6.  Place a drop under toungue and this will cure any bacteria. If you want low lights for $145. that have 808nm and has red lights and infred lights on it.  Go to The L.E.D.Man.com to buy them.  Our Medical community do not want us healthy.  Methylene Blue cures 638 diseases.  Why aren't they using MB to it's full extent?  It's called $$$$$$.  MB is totally homeopathic and it is approved by the FDA.  What are you all afraid of----experiment with it, you just might get a lot better than living on their toxic drugs.
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