Thoughts on soy?

[wonko]

I was wondering if people have opinions on whether or not to include soy in the diet.  A couple of my doctors have suggested to me that soy is very bad for me because of my issues with thyroid and inflammation.  Of course, I also regularly see news and magazine clips professing the wonders of soy.

I'd appreciate any advice or thoughts from people who have considered this subject.

[Paxiled]

Hey, I just thought of how you could prove it.  The Seventh Day Adventists are vegetarians, and they eat a lot of packaged goods from a couple of companies that use the worst forms of processed soy.  They been eating this stuff for years, it's not organic, it's not healthy, and as I say, it's all the worst forms of processed soy you're talking about.  I'm talking canned weiners, phony roast, etc.  So if there's a hormonal problem with this stuff, that's where you might be most likely to find it.  Maybe you could get a study done on this cohort?

[Paxiled]

Which doesn't mean you're wrong, just that I don't see it in real life.

[Paxiled]

Hexane is used in almost all processed foods as a way to separate different ingredients.  You can avoid it by buying organic and natural and by not buying some of the more processed soy derivatives.  I would certainly want to avoid hexane, so you better stop taking medications, anything OTC in the drug store, particularly extracts, etc., and packaged food in the grocery stores.  That's why you shop in the health food stores, to avoid these toxic chemicals as much as possible.  That's why we started them in the first place, and why I warn people to be careful about the supplement companies they buy from.  Hexane is all over the place.  Has nothing to do with soy, has to do with how we process things, including soy.  And you have no evidence whatsoever that soy is responsible for anything you claim it is, given what I've already shown you about the prevalence of estrogenic petroleum products and other chemicals in everything.  We do know that petroleum based fertilizers and hormones fed to animals have caused men to get breasts, but the proof on soy just isn't there.  Otherwise, all Chinese men would have breasts.  All Japanese men would have breasts.  All Thai men would have breasts.  All Asian women would have problems.  They don't.  You can argue this until you're blue in the face, but right now this is a theoretical problem.  When you find a cohort of men who eat lots of soy that fits your profile and doesn't consume petroleum derivatives and other chemicals, we can know, but until then, I still say we have to look at those who consume the most soy and they don't have these problems.  All overprocessed food is bad for you, not just soy, so we agree on that, but if you shop in health food stores you can find soy burgers that are just made with tofu, not all that other stuff.  I eat it regularly, as did all my customers all those years, and none of us had these problems, but some of us did have prostate problems or go bald, and indication of too much testosterone and its byproducts.  If soy did what you say it does, we should all have had full heads of hair and no prostate problems.  

[gymdandee]

Dangerous chemical used to process soy
A new report from the nonprofit Cornucopia Institute finds that many veggie burgers, meatless chicken patties and soy- based snack bars contain a dangerous neurotoxin called hexane.
The report says food manufacturers bathe soy in this poison to help separate it into oil, protein and fiber. And this chemical can linger right up to the point where you bite into your  meatless nuggets.
The hexane itself actually comes from petroleum.
The Environmental Protection Agency considers hexane to be a hazardous air pollutant.  you shouldn’t even inhale the vapors.
It’s so toxic that the Nazis actually injected a related chemical, benzine, into concentration camp victims.
Soy is bad enough for you… it mimics estrogen so well that the body actually thinks it’s getting an extra hormone boost. It’s making women sick and with men they are getting
breasts.

[Paxiled]

That's not true that phytoestrogen is the what makes soy dangerous.  Isoflavones are also progesteronic, which is why they were originally advocated.  They actually balance hormones, they don't create them unless they're needed.  Now, the controversy comes in mostly with men, who don't generally need balancing of female hormones.  Not with women.  Phytoestrogens come from all over, including petroleum products as applied to food as fertilizer and the petroleum in the air mixing with plants, pesticides, blue cohosh, black cohosh, red clover, which is eaten in large quantities by animals we eat since it's a common cover crop and has more isoflavones that does soy (and always has, and has been used as a primary cover crop and therefore animal food for eons), wild yam, God knows how many industrial chemicals, etc. etc. getting into the food chain, and let's not forget the largest source, hormones fed to animals to produce more milk but which also get into the food supply.  Can't blame it all on soy.  

[gymdandee]

The latest study found that young girls around the country have alarming levels of three frightening hormone-like substances phenols, phthalates and phytoestrogens.
When researchers from the Mount Sinai School of Medicine studied urine samples from 1,151 girls between 6 and 8 years old from New York City, Cincinnati and northern California, they found high levels of all three the troubling trio is everywhere. Phthalates are in plastics -- even toys -- as well as cosmetics. Phytoestrogen is the key hormone-like substance that makes soy so dangerous. And the most common phenol, BPA, is in just about everything -- including plastic bottles and can linings.

[gymdandee]

“All-natural protein” is often code for soy, which research shows may cause gynocomastia—the abnormal enlargement of the mammary glands in men. When you consume soy protein, you’re actually courting the Mr. Hyde side of two organic compounds: genistein and daidzein. Both act so similarly to estrogen that they’re known as phytoestrogens (plant produced estrogen). Eat enough of the stuff, and you open up the potential for hormonal havoc.
from mens health

[FurballsMom]

What has already been said about why one should avoid soy is all correct.  There is other useful information about why soy is NOT the healthy food it has been tauted as being by those in marketing of soy-based products.  I agree with allmymarbles, too, on how soy milk and other soy based foods actually taste.

Something else to consider is that these soy-based foods can aggravate conditions such as IBS/GERD and even chronic migraine disorders.

What was already said about avoiding soy-based products when having any thyroid related condition is just so important it's worth emphasizing, because of all the marketing promoting it as health food.  Even The Doctors of Real Age will promote it as somehow being healthy for you, which is worth noting, because they are such prominent and well-known doctors.  Every time I take the Real Age test, I get points taken off and my Real Age goes higher than my actual consecutive age for not consuming soy.  No doubt my "real age" is higher, due to having chronic health conditions, but I'm just saying that it's not because of avoiding the consumption of soy-based products.

I don't doubt what LazyMoose said about lead either, because soy-based products that are not the traditional fermented products that Dr. Mercola mentions are actually good to consume are also processed with a lot of sulfites.  Tofu is full of sulfites.  Also, 99.99% of all those soy sauce products are very bad for your health.  Dr. Mercola explains that most are NOT made in the traditonal fermentation process (trying to make very quickly), and most are made with GMO soy, corn and wheat.  We definitely want to avoid GMO products.  These ones I just mentioned are the biggest GMO products on the market.  It's no wonder that people are getting so sick with illnesses that just showed up and weren't in the previous generations in their families.  And, it's no wonder that people are getting so fat and are far more prone to diabetes because of that.

[allmymarbles]

Yes, I hate it, so I don't use it. I believe in being happy.

[LazyMoose]

Lead?

Just terrifyingly terrific. They must have added it to get the weight up, no - for the great taste I bet!

How long till we all sprout two heads?

[gymdandee]

Protein Powders & Drinks that failed
Protein -- Soy and/or Rice
NOT
APPROVED
Nature's Plus® Spiru-Tein Vanilla [1 scoop (34 g), no suggested daily serving]
Found 4 extra grams of sugar and carbs per serving Found 26 extra calories per serving.

NutriBiotic Rice Protein Vanilla [1 scoop (15 g), 1 to 3 per day]
Found 6 to 18 mcg of lead per daily serving
(in 1 to 3 scoops)

Diet & Meal Replacement
Metagenics® UltraMeal® Rice Natural Chocolate Flavor [2 scoops (52 g), 4 scoops per day]
Found 5.9 mcg of lead per daily serving

[Paxiled]

Laura, my wife has Hashimoto's and is on synthroid, but they've never said anything about soy and when she eats it I don't notice anything and neither does she.  Is this a universal, or is it a sensitivity some people have? I told her to ask her endocrinologist, but you always sound more knowledgeable than her endocrinologist.

[laura1967]

I have been warned to stay away from all types of soy as well, due to Hashimoto's autoimmune thyroid disease. Anyone with thyroid disease should not consume it, because it also affects the absorption of your thyroid meds, etc. And as Moose said above ....oh boy the inflammation!!! My thyroid will SWELL if I consume soy!  
Label read everything....it is in most prepared foods and even condiments.

[LazyMoose]

"my doctors have suggested to me that soy is very bad for me because of my issues with thyroid and inflammation"

- If you have an autoimune thyroid disease like Hashimoto or Graves disease, avoid soy when possible. Your doctor IS CORRECT (sometimes they are LOL)!

In Autoimmune thyroid , the thyroid is inflamed from the antibodies and you are at risk for more body inflammation in other areas.  The thyroid level of inflammation gets re-disturbed with other hormone imbalances as it can no longer self adjust. The hormone output and free T levels are now regulated by the hormone replacement meds. Like a car that no longer has an adjustable gas pedal for hills, its now one speed. So anything else that can effect any hormone levels can mess with and increase inflammation in the thyroid. Soy messes with hormone levels, that is the reason why some 'thyroidians' will feel their thyroid inflame , swell and hurt after consuming certain amounts of soy.

Thyroid issue? Then say no to soy, its that simple, but difficult to avoid.

[gymdandee]

Pax, You know me, I like a good argument! LOL

[Paxiled]

People with certain thyroid conditions should avoid soy, that's true.  It probably wouldn't hurt to eat fermented soy once in awhile, but you can get everything that's in soy by eating a combination of legumes and any whole grain, except the isoflavones, which if you want you can get from red clover sprouts.  As for Gym's crusade against soy, read our arguments back and forth.  Neither of us can prove a thing, but it's been fun.

[gymdandee]

P.S. I've posted a few other posts against the use of soy do a search on this forum

[gymdandee]

any input on soy appreciated
by falldown, Nov 11, 2009 09:14AM
For years, nutritionists have touted the health benefits of soy. But now some believe this protein alternative could present a real danger since it is found in a large number of foods we eat
Lenore Nolan-Ryan, who owns a catering company in Lauderdale by the Sea and is a personal chef to many clients, loves to cook soy.
"If you're using the soy beans, they add great texture and they are also a very good vegetable," said Nolan-Ryan, "if you are using fermented soy, like tofu, you can actually use it as a substitute for protein beef, fish or chicken."
not all soy is the same.
"The soy we eat here in the states is not fermented, like it is in Asia, so all the toxins are still left in," said Nolan-Ryan.
Dianne Gregg who wrote the book "The Hidden Dangers of Soy." Gregg, who is allergic to soy, believes chemical compounds in soy can contribute to a number of health problems, like hypothyroidism.
"You're seeing more problems as far as hypothyroidism," said Gregg, "women are gaining weight because they have a problem with their thyroid." The chemical compounds can also affect men.
"It can lower their libido, lower their testosterone levels," said Gregg.
But not everyone agrees with Gregg's findings. Sonia Angel, a registered dietician with Memorial Healthcare Systems, said studies indicate soy is safe.
"It's a great alternative as a protein source; it's fat free and it has great benefits in health it may lower cholesterol," said Angel.
Yet Gregg warns a lot of food products contain soy and if you aren't feeling your best it may be the soy.

"Vegetable oil, mayonnaise, it's in canned soup and bakery goods," said Gregg. "Over 60 percent of products on grocery store shelves have some form of soy."
Because of the high level of estrogens and phytoestrogens in soy, Gregg said there's a concern it could cause cancer and affect the thyroid in those at risk.  The safest bet is to eat the fermented soy or natural forms of soy, like the kind found in Edamame beans.