Can anyone who RECOVERED from Covid19 please post some info?

[troubadour]

The community would very much appreciate some actual details about the good, the bad, and the ugly. Is the situation so dire that no one can post details here?

[ginger899]

I can't edit my above post but I would like to say that I have a suspicion Vitamin D...particularly D3 in "decent" dosage has a part to play in my recovery.
I had been taking a VIT.D3 supplement through winter but at 400iu daily. (Thus not terribly high)
But in March I ran out of it and didn't bother to re-order. Silly me.

Recently, I have been deliberately sunning myself for 30 minutes WITHOUT sunscreen. I have been doing that as a medicine, no other reason.
I am fair-skinned and live in a northern latitude, so we don't get really fierce heat here.
(This would have to be sensibly done for people who live in hotter countries or states. And black or dark skinned people may need 30 minutes or a little more to get the vitamin D that way.)

The skin makes high doses of vitamin D3 with that sun exposure. I think it has helped me.

[Paxiled]

The sun and fresh air does seem to be helpful.  I've read that doctors in Italy stopped putting everyone on ventilators so quickly and got them outside and it seemed to help.  I don't think it was the D.  They seem to think it was just the help that fresh air gave them in breathing.  Dark skinned people need less vitamin D, not more, as they absorb it more efficiently from sunshine due to their higher melanin.  That is my understanding, anyway.  D is basically a white people's problem historically, and white people seemed to have become white when they migrated north from Africa thousands of years ago and got lighter skin in the shorter days which gave them some benefits but came with a Vitamin D cost.  I don't think black people benefit much by supplementing it, for example, at least in regards to the main reason most people take it, which is for bone health.  

[AnxiousNoMore]

You were never tested for Covid so it is just a guess that you had it. You could have had two different viruses too.
I copied this from a dietician's article that appeared today. "Some people have proposed that taking vitamin D could help prevent or treat Covid-19 but it's important to say that there have been no clinical trials. " "The National Institutes of Health recommends those up to age 70 get 600 international units of vitamin D each day and those 71 and older shoot for 800 IU.
Those with pale skin can absorb those amounts in 15 minutes from the sun on a bright day but it can take up to two hours for those with darker skin. The risk for skin cancer also climbs with such exposure."

[AnxiousNoMore]

Also this from the article. "Observational studies during the novel coronavirus pandemic suggest those who get recommended levels of vitamin D more easily ward off the virus and better weather its symptoms if they get sick.

These accounts took on greater significance last week when six medical societies from around the world – including the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists – urged everyone to get an adequate amount of the important vitamin, particularly during a time when many have been spending more time indoors.

"The current data do not provide any evidence that vitamin D supplementation will help prevent or treat Covid-19 infection ... (but) further research into vitamin D supplementation in Covid-19 disease is warranted," the medical groups said in a joint statement."

[Paxiled]

Again, those with darker skin don't appear to have the problem with it.  More melanin is a genetic advantage of dark skin.  Unfortunately, because of discrimination, it has also become associated with poverty, and poverty makes people much more susceptible to everything that goes wrong in life.  I'm also guessing that those who get plenty of D from being outside are more fit than those who don't, as in order to spend a half hour out in the sun you have to be out there doing something.  The problem with D today is most people have indoor lives, which is the only reason any of us needs to supplement it.  Unfortunately, in today's world, few are out in the sun at peak hours, and so most of us do need to supplement.  I would also guess if you look at any essential nutrient you will find those who have them in good numbers have better immune systems and health than anyone who doesn't.  So no matter what nutrient you would look at I'm also guessing you'd find adequate levels have some benefit against covid.  The way we eat today for most people is equivalent to being malnourished or over-nourished.  This is hard stuff for science to suss out, as there are so many co-variables.  For example, for D to work properly, as it's fat soluble, you need to have sufficient dietary beneficial fat in your diet.  Many people are eating bad fats that don't help with this or insufficient fat because of a belief it will make them lose weight.  It's very hard to do the long-term research that would prove out some of this stuff when you're in the middle of a pandemic and don't have a lot of time.

[ginger899]

I had the virus . It started in March with gut issues, but I didn't know it was Covid, until the "classic" symptoms came on April 2nd.

Chills with very low temperature, followed by high fever, very tight painful-to breathe chest, difficulty breathing, coughing, out of breath, loss of appetite,  and weakness.
But I never lost my sense of smell or taste.

Those dramatic symptoms didn't last too long -about a week. I began to feel better quite quickly.
Fortunately my cough was slightly productive, so I could get some relief from the tightness by coughing stuff out.
What I coughed up was white, didn't look "infected" at all!

So I felt so much better for a good three weeks, and slowly recouperating and getting a lot of strength back.

But after that, the gut issues returned. Not too serious, just uncomfortable. My usual high-fiber healthy diet didn't suit me any more so I had to eat differently.
That was more of a nuisance than  anything. But it was not easy, as a strange anxiety also came with the gut problems. I don't normally get anxiety issues.

So I'd had that since about May, and had learned to live with it. I was sure it was Covid, which hadn't gone away and I had the "long tail" version.

But lately,  I am beginning to feel a lot better gradually. Much stronger. The exhaustion has gone. I used to feel exhausted particularly in late mornings.
I am now able to do more athletic things, and deal with heavy garden work like coppicing trees. I actually feel good while doing it! And okay after.
I sleep well again now.

I had some tests for the gut issues, and all the tests are negative. So that shows there is no inflammation or nfection there of any kind.

My gut is much better. I can't tolerate as much fiber as before, but can eat healthy foods now. I just have to eat sensibly but feel as if things are almost completely back to my healthy self again.

I honestly do feel I have recovered from Covid-19.

I think it takes quite some time for the body to re-balance itself after this virus, and there is damagae done, which takes time to heal.

[troubadour]

Thank you for the info, much appreciated, stay healthy and take care!

[anxiouswhispers]

so you were never diagnosed with covid?

[monkeydoctor]

I'm pretty sure that I had it in mid-March. My partner in NYC came to visit me in DC on a bus, which is a pretty small poorly-ventilated space to share with plenty of people coming from a city in the grip of a terrible outbreak at the time. 5.5 days later, I completely lost my sense of smell. At the time, I had no idea that was a symptom of covid-19, since it was only days later that it hit the news that loss of sense of smell or taste could be a better predictor of infection than fever. About a week later, I had a day of fever and headache, but that passed. My partner had only mild fatigue and some muscle soreness. His other girlfriend in NYC though had it extremely badly. She wound up with double pneumonia due to covid-19 and was coughing up blood. She did recover completely though. Other people I know in NYC have had lasting health effects. The office manager in my office in Maryland is still out with lingering effects since falling ill in March (I just donated a week of leave to her), and her fiancé died due to covid-19. So, in my experience and social circles, the effects have ranged from mild to death, which seems in line with everything in the news.

[troubadour]

Thank you for the info, all the best to you, take care.

[anxiouswhispers]

i am 37 years old, so don't come for me when i tell you this, but tiktok has actually been a wealth of information for me when it comes to what people have gone through or do go through during their covid-19 experience. there are a ton of users on there that do a daily (sometimes hourly) update on how they are feeling, doing, what their symptoms are, etc.

admittedly, there are people (mostly teenagers) who post videos about it for the reactions, etc. -- but they're easily avoidable if you follow the right people.

like so many have said here, everyone is different. i, for one, enjoy reading about the experiences because it baffles me that so many people have so many effects from it. for example? jimmie johnson, a nascar driver, just tested positive for it the other day and has had zero symptoms. his wife also has it, and she has what she calls "allergy symptoms" but has no fever, fatigue, migraine, etc.

super fascinating stuff.

[troubadour]

Yet another recent article on long-term effects - "There is growing evidence that the virus causes a far greater array of symptoms than was previously understood. And that its effects can be agonisingly prolonged: in Garner’s case for more than seven weeks."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/15/weird-hell-professor-advent-calendar-covid-19-symptoms-paul-garner

[troubadour]

I actually found some details from people who recovered, stories are not pretty:

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/coronavirus/exhaustion-uncertainty-mark-coronavirus-survivors-journeys/2232713/

There is a lot of variability as far as severity goes, but if you're out of luck, you will have long-term problems, lasting months or longer - not pretty.

[AnnieBrooke]

Just to add to the mix, the first case known to have happened through community spread in Oregon was diagnosed February 28. The patient was in the paper today, May 6, because he was leaving the hospital at last. He was shifting to a nursing/ rehab care place. The paper says he can walk a short distance but then has to have oxygen, and that he has other challenges. So a case with a good outcome (he didn't die) is two months and a week in the hospital, followed by further rehab care. Remind me not to leave my house for, say, the next two years.

[troubadour]

Holy God - if that doesn't make people avoid at all costs getting infected, I don't know what does.

[GuitarRox]

I've only read reports from those who recovered.  No first hand accounts.  It really seems to be a wide range of experiences that people have.  Seems like lots lose weight (not such a bad thing) and have zero appetite, feel extreme fatigue and lethargy, and fevers that build into the night and are very uncomfortable with chills and shaking.  Coughing is a hallmark sign but people don't talk about that like they do the other things.  

[Paxiled]

Thought I just left a comment on this.  If you read a good daily newspaper or watch a good genuine news channel you will see interviews every day with people who have recovered from the virus and are going on with their lives.  It's out there if you look for it.

[GuitarRox]

I do read and keep up with things.  Odd comment to make.  I was talking to the original poster stating from what I've read and seen in reports.  

[Paxiled]

Sorry, you said you saw no first-hand accounts.  I was just telling everyone first-hand accounts are around.  Didn't mean to diss you or anything, just wanted to be helpful.

[troubadour]

Thank you, Rox & Pax, info was appreciated.

[Paxiled]

Nobody has posted on here yet who has knowingly had it.  Not many people actively post on this website, though I have no idea how many read the comments, but again, so far and so good none of us has reported getting it.  We could of course all have it and not know it.  I've had symptoms of it and thought of getting tested a couple of weeks ago, but tests in the US have largely been unavailable unless you meet stringent criteria or unless you're a medical worker.  I went on the CDC website and it led me through a series of questions about what I was experiencing and ended by telling me they were sorry I wasn't feeling my best and hoped I felt better soon -- in short, I didn't have it and didn't need to get tested and with the still extreme shortage of tests even after all this time where most of us live we're nowhere close to what has been suggested by the experts, that to open our economy we all need to get tested repeatedly because the tests around today are quite inaccurate with a high degree of false negatives and due to the FDA allowing everyone and their cousin to sell antibody tests without FDA approval that they work those tests are even worse with a whole lot of false positives.  Maybe before we're all dead we'll all be able to go and just request repeated testing if we want so we'll know just how many of us have it, have had it, and to make sure we don't get it an hour after we got our negative results, but it will be very expensive and time consuming to do that and we have a lot of people in the US so who knows.  However, I've said this before, at a time like this folks used to tune in to their trusted TV and radio news programs and read the daily newspaper and all those sources are full of interviews with people who have had it and recovered from it.  In real time, Chris Cuomo, an anchor on CNN, has been documenting his illness and slow recovery from covid.  If you look, you actually can't avoid seeing this information, but I realize we live in a world today where most people don't read the best newspapers and don't watch or listen to the best news programs and so we're balkanized in what we see.  The fact is, almost everyone who has gotten covid has recovered from it, but what recovery means is different for different people and is still unknown if some organs sustain long-term damage from it or heal.  It's a new virus and it will take time to learn about it.  But we will.  Those who have died are high in absolute numbers but tiny in the percentage of people alive in the world.  What we're all trying to do is make it stay that way until we have better tools to fight back.  Peace, all.

[troubadour]

Thank you, I guess I'm looking for information that's not filtered by a reporter (details perhaps "inappropriate" for "young audiences"), and especially *follow-up* info, long after the patient dropped from a TV station's interest. Also, some details about the treatment/supplements could be interesting, again, the TV/newspaper stories are tilted towards hardcore medications (remdesivir, kaletra, hydroxychloroquinone, etc.), the approved general attitude is to laugh at vitamin C, garlic, propolis, use of saunas, etc. I have googled stories myself, but most lack in the aspects just mentioned. This being a medically-oriented forum, some specifics as well as unique personal experiences are greatly appreciated.

[Paxiled]

You will never find researched information about natural medicine in the US.  This is historical and based on the economic competition model the US uses for everything including health care.  At the end of the 19th century, seeing a physician was still the most harmful thing you could usually do if you were sick.  Most people saw herbalists and homeopaths and the like.  Because of this, even into the 1970's American doctors were still less likely to tell you to take a drug for many things than to use tried and true gentler remedies.  If you had a cough, for example, they didn't give you an antibiotic whether or not they found any infection as they do now, they sent you to buy some cough syrup based on slippery elm bark and wild cherry bark with some alcohol.  It was only when things got serious they did serious medicine.  But the robber barons got together and decided allopathic medicine was where the money was to be made, and that's where their money went.  In the early 20th century, the FDA was created, and it was all about issuing patents granting lucrative patent approvals for synthetic drugs.  Those early drugs were usually made from plants they already knew worked, and they are still making drugs that mimic what plants do.  But they do it faster and in a much more intensive and isolated manner, so they have many more side effects but work much more quickly and probably more consistently.  There's a benefit and a big cost.  Because patent law didn't, until recently, and this is interesting, and theoretically still can't be applied to anything that isn't materially altered from a natural state, you can't patent Vitamin C or garlic.  You can patent methods of making them but that doesn't really give you much of a monopoly so there simply isn't the money out there to do extensive research on plant medicine or other natural medicine.  It's really expensive to do double blinded human trials, it takes years, and if you can't get a monopoly for a period of time at the end there's no pot of gold out there for you.  It is what it is.  That's our system, and it's why you might treat a large animal with minerals but doctors don't know how to do this with humans anymore.  It won't pay their bills and buy their second homes.  Again, this is our system.  The natural medicine system has been so demeaned publicly by these well-financed interests that it is now called "alternative" medicine even though it's the older form of medicine and the pharmaceutical form is so new it's actually an experiment on us as guinea pigs.  But when it comes to something that kills quickly like the corona virus -- it can turn on you in a second and go from a slow mild disease to something fierce -- it's unlikely natural remedies would be of help in time.  They are slow.  They are mild.  Now, as to saunas, don't know where you're going with that.  Putting someone with a fever in a sauna with breathing problems might probably kill them more quickly.  Garlic has no anti-viral properties.  It has some anti-fungal antibiotic properties, but not anti-viral.  Same with propolis, which is most often used with topical problems such as the gums or the skin.  Vitamin C has been researched a ton but didn't really pan out all that much other than what was already known, it's a powerful and necessary antioxidant that is great for long-term health but won't probably help you much if you've already gotten sick.  So this was long, but the lack of info is on purpose.  And with things that kill quickly, if natural medicine had been that great we'd have never looked for stronger stuff.  There is a place for both forms of medicine.  Eating well, exercising, and making sure you have all the nutrients the body needs to function optimally will enhance your immune system and help you avoid illness, but eventually we all die, so that means our immune systems do not protect us forever.  But it can keep you from getting this virus in the first place or, if you do, from it being at its most deadly.  But that's a lifetime commitment to health.  Peace.

[Paxiled]

Oops, left out the interesting thing I mentioned, which is that recently the FDA has granted "drug" approval to completely natural substances that haven't been altered in any way, allowing patents on them.  One is a fish oil supplement that is quite strong and uses a different method but is still just fish oil.  Another is CBD oil, which has been approved in very high doses for certain forms of epilepsy but is still just CBD oil, a naturally occurring substance.  I don't know how this happened or what it means for the future, but those are two cases I know of that happened fairly recently.

[troubadour]

Wow, I guess I disagree with your conclusions:
- Since about 2010, I haven't had a flu lasting more than 3 (three) days, thanks to vitamin C, 1000 mg taken every waking hour, the *critical* thing is to start EARLY, as soon as you feel you have been infected. More info here (especially the reviews & comments), vitamin C has been researched extensively by Pauling (Nobel Prize for Chemistry) & others:
https://www.amazon.com/How-Live-Longer-Feel-Better/dp/0870710966/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=linus+pauling&qid=1588783621&sr=8-2

- A sauna is extremely helpful in the EARLY stages of the infection, when the virus starts multiplying (no, I wouldn't put a very sick patient into a sauna):
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4908103/

- "Garlic has no anti-viral properties" - again, wow:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1470664

I guess one can argue that COVID19 is not a flu, but I wouldn't put down the weapons.

[AnnieBrooke]

"thanks to vitamin C, 1000 mg taken every waking hour," -- Did you just say that you take 1000 milligrams of vitamin C every waking hour?

[AnnieBrooke]

Here's a pretty interesting article about the use of vitamins to keep the immune system strong in these times of coronavirus and other times also. You won't agree with its assertions about dosage levels of Vitamin C , but overall it seems like an article you would agree with.  https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a31710100/vitamins-and-supplements-to-prevent-coronavirus/

[troubadour]

Hi Annie, yes, 1000 mg (1,000 milligrams or 1 gram) of vitamin C per hour, huge dose (I take 5,000 mg every day on a regular basis, when I'm not sick, been doing that for years)

[troubadour]

Yes, the article is good -  a virus infection, however, is a major insult to the body, quick response is key - a sauna works wonders in these early stages, I sweated out the flu quite a few times (more than 6 or 7) in this way (the Cuomos (I'm not a big fan of him or CNN) also use it, apparently they were well advised https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8194297/Chris-Cuomos-wife-reveals-feeling-slightly-better-coronavirus-diagnosis.html).

[Paxiled]

Troubador, here is a more recent article:  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4103721/.  You cited a 1992 study that concluded that garlic had some anti-viral properties but only in vitro, not in real humans.  It has never, to my knowledge, been used as an anti-viral traditionally.  It has been used for all of recorded history as an anti-fungal and anti-bacterial in actual humans.  My own background is certainly not in medicine, but I managed health food stores for 18 years and never was a claim made by garlic supplement manufacturers that it was anti-viral.  If it is, it's not very strong.  As for your flu treatments, first, if you weren't tested for the flu, you don't actually know that's what you had.  We colloquially refer to lots of illnesses as the flu, but most of them are not in fact influenza.  Anyone can recover from an illness quickly.  We might associate things we do with that but we can't actually prove it.  You quote Linus Pauling. but all of his work on Vitamin C failed.  This is recognized by natural practitioners any by him before he died, but his legacy lives on.  He was obviously not a medical specialist.  But I will concede that vitamin C does help the immune system in that it is the most important and wide ranging antioxidant in our bodies.  But the amount you admit to taking can kill you.  It can tear holes in your digestive system.  I wouldn't encourage anyone else to try this.  A sauna might help you with minor illnesses.  I used to go out for a long hard run at the first sign of illness to burn out the toxins more quickly.  It worked when I was young enough to do that.  For me.  Not for anyone else necessarily.  I do take Vitamin C, but again, your quantities can be lethal.  It's an acid, and it can be hard on the stomach even in small amounts for some people.  It does come in buffered forms that temper its acidity, and that's why it is supposed to be taken with a meal.  But a sauna takes a lot out of you.  This virus, or true influenza for a weakened person, is pretty potent so I'm just a lot more cautious than you are in what I would recommend.  Someone with a fever is already burning up.  You are fine doing whatever you want, and if it works for you, and doesn't harm you, we're all fine with it.  I'm just a lot more cautious recommending extreme measures to others.  Chris Cuomo, by the way, did not have an easy time of it.  He's still not back to his usual self weeks after he got diagnosed.  He's an extremely fit bodybuilder known for his intense workouts, so he's also a lot stronger than most on here.  His family had a much milder time of it, thank God.  But he was in pretty dire straits there for a couple of days.  As for arguing covid isn't a flu, it's not an argument, it's a fact.  They are different viruses entirely, not in the same family.  Covid is in the same family as the common cold, SARS, MERS.  Not influenza.  Totally different things.  Now, I take olive leaf and elderberry, which are reputed to have some anti-viral effects, as well as zinc lozenges for the immune system at the first sign of an illness, but to my knowledge I haven't had covid and I've never been tested when I've been sick as to whether it was influenza or not.  I do recommend maintaining a strong immune system through diet.  I'm a user of supplements.  Just a lot more cautious than you are and skeptical equally of all forms of medicine for over-claiming.  Peace.

[Paxiled]

By the way, I"m not saying don't take garlic if you want.  It's a great food.  But I'll also add, I never sold an anti-viral formulated by herbalists that relied on garlic.  Even in the study cited, they attack a herpes virus, and if you look, say, at a cold sore herpes formula it will usually rely on lysine and melissa (lemon balm).  If you look at formulas for chronic herpes, the main herb is usually St. Johns Wort.  I claim no expertise, just reporting what I was told by those who did have it.  But again, for all those out there, while huge quantities of Vitamin C might harm you, garlic in proper amounts is always fine as long as it's the right form to be useful, and I don't know what form that would be as it comes in many forms including just ingesting raw garlic and in that test tube study the authors could not conclude what in garlic made it work or how strongly it worked.

[troubadour]

Paxiled, I strongly disagree with what you say - peace to you, too.

[Emily_MHManager]

Please, before taking any vitamin or supplement, talk to your doctor.

The doses of vitamin C mentioned here are way above the recommended daily dose, which, for adults, the recommended daily amount for vitamin C is 65 to 90 milligrams (mg) a day, and the upper limit is 2,000 mg a day. More could be toxic to you.

Do your research.

"For adults, the tolerable upper intake level (UL) — the highest daily intake likely to pose no risks — is 2,000 mg per day.

Vitamin C is water-soluble, so any excess is usually excreted in the urine rather than stored in the body. It's safe in almost any amount from foods, and supplements in recommended amounts are also regarded as safe for most people. In some people, high doses — more than, say, 2,000 or 3,000 mg per day — can cause symptoms such as diarrhea, nausea, heartburn, gastritis, fatigue, flushing, headache, and insomnia. People with chronic liver or kidney conditions, gout, or a history of calcium-oxalate kidney stones should take no more than 1,000 mg a day... taking 3,000 mg of vitamin C per day is a waste of your money."

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/whats-the-right-amount-of-vitamin-c-for-me

[keveen21]

It isn't toxic or harmful even in large doses, though you would normally take the larger doses when you are ill or feel you are going down with something.  1g is about what people need unless they eat loads of fruit and veg which is doubtful. The older you get the more you need the higher dose esp over 60s. The recommended amount is ridiculously low and based on old thinking.  Best taken with zinc.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7167497/
https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/cam/hp/vitamin-c-pdq

[CurfewX]

Neither of the links you supplied support the notion that people who don't have cancer or COVID-19 should take high doses of vitamin C.  Additionally, the administrations described in the opinion piece and the cancer article were performed under the supervision of trained medical staff.

[Paxiled]

You are citing a fairly low daily intake of Vitamin C, and if you take that as recommended, meaning in the buffered form and with a meal, that would be easily tolerated by almost anyone.  The poster was recommending that much every hour.  While as stated above C isn't toxic, death isn't the only bad thing that can happen in the world.  Vitamin C is an acid, and too much can cause lots of digestive problems, headaches, bother the kidneys, and other things.  No, it won't kill you.  But you can't use that much and who wants to waste a day on the toilet or with a headache or the like?  Your body only uses what it can, not what you put into it.  From food it's harmless because you really aren't going to eat 60 bell peppers to get a ton of C.  You're going to eat maybe one.  But as a supplement, too much isn't useful as the body will just excrete it but in the meantime your digestive system had to deal with acid.  If you eat one orange, you're fine, but ever eaten a whole lot of them?  Too acidic.  So if it doesn't do what is claimed why bother?  It also oxidizes easily, but you can protect it by taking lipoic acid, another powerful antioxidant that protects Vitamin C from oxidation.  But I do agree, when you take a supplement of anything you're not going to absorb it as well as you would food, as the body evolved to eat, not take nutrients isolated in labs.  And it works best when combined with bioflavanoids and in a buffered form such as Ester-C, which was developed to protect from the acidic nature.  So yes it can be harmful in large doses, and yes, it won't kill you.  It also won't prevent you from getting covid 19 by itself.  And if you do take it with zinc, be careful because zinc is toxic if you take too much.  

[Paxiled]

Meant to say, since it isn't absorbed as well as food, you do need to take a lot more in supplement form than you technically need to survive, and if you're using it for specific health purposes you might want more than the amount needed to survive.  

[troubadour]

Thank you, keveen, good info (from my own personal standpoint).

[keveen21]

A high dose of Vit C is what? 1g is about right per day if basically healthy and over 40. The examples were just examples. If you look for the research it is all there and is positive not negative, and has never harmed anybody. Some common sense required, obviously you won't take something that makes you have stomach problems. the all work in balance like the B vitamins so people should be taking Vit C, D 1-2000IU, and  E (200iu mixed tocopherols). Plus zinc 15mg and selenium. And Omega 3. Again, esp if you have an illness and when over 60. I take them all and look like Superman...

"vitamin E, the primary lipid soluble small molecule antioxidant, and vitamin C, the terminal water soluble small molecule antioxidant, cooperate to protect lipids and lipid structures against peroxidation. Although vitamin E is located in membranes and vitamin C is located in aqueous phases, vitamin C is able to recycle vitamin E; i.e., vitamin C repairs the tocopheroxyl (chromanoxyl) radical of vitamin E, thereby permitting vitamin E to function again as a free radical chain-breaking antioxidant."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8434935

For pneumonia and Covid-19 it would be intravenous and only obviously by a doctor. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7172861/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25253919
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17253561 - Cochrane
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30029205
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30441816

[AnnieBrooke]

keveen, above in this thread, another poster said he was taking 1,000 mg of Vitamin C "every waking hour." That is what much of this discussion is referring to. People are responding that such a high amount could be problematic, not that in general taking Vitamin C (at the recommended dose or even higher than it) is dangerous.  Depending on how many waking hours the poster was talking about, it sounded like a very high amount.

[CurfewX]

What AnnieBrooke said.  Also, I am a 53-year-old mother of 6.  I don't care how much vitamin C I took - I would not look like Superman.  The body of evidence suggests that overdosing on vitamin C, as the previous poster stated they did in their daily routine, is not a great idea.  I'm not going to argue, but I'm doubtful that excessive-to-obsessive consumption of anything is beneficial.

[Paxiled]

As one of those warning caution, Annie is where I am on this.  I do take a lot of supplements -- I spent 18 years in the health food biz and you can't help but get into them.  So just to say, I take a fairly high amount daily, about 1500mg.  I wasn't telling anyone not to take it.  I take it.  I take it in a combination that helps with allergies.  I also use zinc lozenges at the first sign of feeling something coming on, but only two a day as again zinc can be toxic in high dosages.  So just to make clear, Vitamin C is an essential antioxidant, probably the most essential, and as mentioned above it is water soluble so it doesn't stay in the system very long.  You can't finesse that by taking timed release, as they don't actually work most of the time -- when you evacuate it's sitting in the intestinal tract and it goes bye bye.  That's what they call expensive toilet water.  So you do have to take it more than once a day if you believe it is helpful and want it to stay in the body.  We were reacting to the humongous amount suggested by the one poster, not to Vitamin C in reasonable dosages.  

[Paxiled]

And as to the protection of Vitamin E, you'll need more than C.  For one thing, tocopherols are only one part of Vitamin E.  Tocotrienols are perhaps more important, but aren't in most E supplements, but then, most of us don't need E supplements.  But C isn't fat soluble and E is. so you want fat soluble antioxidants as well so you get at all of the E.  One way to do that is to take lipoic acid, which is rare in that it protects both fat soluble and water soluble nutrients.  It protects Vitamin C from oxidizing.  But again, be careful folks.  Zinc is essential but toxic if you take too much.  For those who take multiple supplements, make sure there isn't B6 in all of them, for example, as it can cause a form of neuropathy and it's often in all kinds of formulas.  Same with Zinc.  Selenium is also toxic if you take too much, so you only need a little.  As for D, there was some research a few years ago that lowered the recommended dose from 1000 iu a day to 800.  So 2000 might be too much for a particular individual.  This has only become necessary as we've become indoor creatures.  When they told us to cover up when we go outside to protect us from skin cancer and to avoid the sun during peak hours they caused us to not get enough D, which is made by contact with sunshine.  So now we have to supplement.  Keveen is right, it all goes together, and it is very complicated, and there is nothing near consensus on what's appropriate, what's too much, what works and what doesn't.  We can fix this by putting as much effort into this as we do patent medicine, but there's not the profit to be made so the money isn't there.  Sad.  And if you look like Superman, it doesn't mean you are Superman.  Most who look like Superman take steroids, and they don't do so well health-wise and age very oddly.  Better to look like Olive Oyl and have no health problems.

[troubadour]

The poster taking 1,000 mg of vitamin C every waking hour is me - careful, though, I was referring to the situation where I get the flu, and I don't do that for more than 2-3 of days, depending on how early I realize I have been infected - if it's very early, I stop after just a few doses (lasting half a day or so), and I'm fine afterwards. Normally, when I'm healthy, I take 5,000 mg per day (in one dose), and that's it. Please don't misinterpret what I said.

[AnnieBrooke]

troubadour, yesterday I went back up to re-read the posts where you were talking about amounts and did see that you were talking about using that high of a dose only when you had the flu. I was going to post a clarification (even typed it), but couldn't figure out how to say "The amount mentioned was not 1,000 an hour every single day; it's  'merely' 5,000 mg daily," because 5,000 is itself more than twice the recommended dose. If you're a Linus Pauling fan, I assume you don't think there are risks to taking megadoses, but that's a lot of vitamin C.

[Paxiled]

Troubador, we all have things we do when we get sick.  Maybe they work, and maybe it's just a coincidence.  Normally I wouldn't say anything about this, but because of covid and the warnings about its co-existence with flu next fall and winter, everyone needs to know that unless you get a test you have no idea if you have the flu or have had the flu.  Could be a cold, another corona virus.  Could be lots of different viruses or minor bacterial infections or sometimes even really bad allergy reactions.  When I was a kid, everything was "a" flu, as some these days are saying, but influenza now has to be looked at differently and more correctly by all of us.  If I got a stomach problem, it was the intestinal flu.  If I got certain symptoms it was the 24 hour flu.  Lots of flus.  But none of them was influenza, and we now must all recognize that unless you're in a hospital because you're very young or very old with lots of health problems, none of us have probably ever been tested to see if we had actual influenza.  I never have, and that's after 67 years on the planet and that covers a lot of bouts of illness when I was in school.  Given that I'm guessing all of us when we don't feel well just hunker down until we feel better again, get plenty of sleep, and do our anecdotal things we do in a kind of magical thinking without any actual proof it's doing anything because we don't double-blind test ourselves and don't bother with doctors or tests, will we now have to get tested every time we don't feel well?  As for that 5000mg of C a day, I would say, although I don't see any reason to take that much daily, if you do find it makes you feel safer to do so, taking it all at one time is self-defeating.  Your body can't assimilate that much, and given that Vitamin C makes people urinate more frequently anyway, most of it's gone into your toilet water.  If you truly want to have that much working for you take it in divided doses, some with each meal, and that way it will have a better possibility of being utilized.  As for Linus Pauling, remember, he had no expertise in health.  Clearly he was brilliant in his field, but health wasn't his field.  What he was trying to learn is if we can live forever by using antioxidants, and he settled on Vitamin C because when he started we knew a lot about it but didn't know about all the other antioxidants we now know are much more powerful.  His work proved nothing, which is still a positive contribution as it told us what didn't work.  Since then research has moved on to a variety of powerful antioxidants, and how different ones protect different parts of the body.  C isn't any longer the center of the antioxidant universe.  Science moves on.  Peace, all.

[troubadour]

Paxiled, what other powerful antioxidants are you referring to, and what dosage is recommended? A reference would be appreciated, thank you.

[Paxiled]

I won't get into dosages, because the research isn't specific enough and there is no consensus, but anyone can either follow the recommendations on a label of a quality manufacturer or do one's own research.  An easy way to deal with this issue would also be to buy a good book on antioxidants.  That being said, here are some:  glutathione is the main antioxidant protecting both the eyes and the liver.  It isn't absorbed if you take it as a supplement, though it is available, but you can get it by using wheat grass regularly.  As the liver is so important, this one is very important to have.  The various carotenoids all have protective effects.  Everyone knows about beta carotene, which gives us the safe way to take Vitamin A without toxicity to the liver, but few know about all the others.  Any time you have a colored vegetable, the color is largely from carotenoids.  Two I'll mention are lycopene, in red foods, which protects the prostate, and lutein, in green foods, which protects the eyes.  Of course, they protect other things as well.  Lipoic acid protects Vitamin C and the liver from oxidation, as well as providing energy to our cells and cardiovascular system.  Pycnogenol from pine bark extract or the more generic proanthacyanadins from grape seeds may be the most powerful antioxidant we have, and works with Vitamin C.  So just a couple of examples, as I'm not the one to write this book.  Virtually every herb you've heard of that is helpful is helpful because of powerful antioxidants, such as berries, green and white tea, algae, turmeric, and, well, etc. etc.  Antioxidants are everywhere in plant food, most abundant in fruits and vegetables, not in animal food much.  Put them all together and theoretically we live forever, which is what Linus Pauling and others such as the Life Extension Institute were and are chasing, but haven't found of course.  Prevent cell death and they think we can all be immortal.  

[Paxiled]

Meaning, I should add, there are a ton of them and I can't possibly put them all in here nor do I know all of them.  Most vitamins have some antioxidant activity, some a lot.  Many minerals have some antioxidant activity.  All plants have some antioxidant activity and some have a ton.  That's why they always say, a balanced diet high on veggies, moderate fruit intake (only because of the sugar intake), moderate animal protein mostly from the ocean, and there you have it, eat enough stuff and you get enough.  Want a lot more, take vitamin, mineral, and herbal supplements.  Peace, all.

[Paxiled]

And I never give references.  Or mostly never.  The reason is, which reference would I cite that is definitive?  Most medical issues have no consensus.  The fact "mainstream" medicine goes one way mostly doesn't mean that's accurate, it usually means pharmaceutical companies or textbooks written by doctors paid in part by pharmaceutical companies has a point of view that is what docs learn in school and is in their diagnostic manuals, but may or may not be the best medicine.  Looking backward, virtually everything we believed was true in medicine proved not to be or proved to be incomplete.  No reason to assume the future won't be the same.  That's because the body is very hard to understand.  Individuals differ a lot, as we're seeing with the covid virus in a way folks may not have been exposed to as much before.  And it's because medicine is a business, and as long as that's the case there's an incentive to overpromise and exaggerate and oversell.  We all do it in whatever it is we do for a living.  Doctors aren't different.  So you can Google and come up with a reference that has been gamed by those who know how to game Google, and unless you go a hundred pages into it that's what we see.  What is harder to find are the dissidents, and almost always it's some of the dissidents who prove to be right in the long run.  The same is true for natural medicine.  We have historical use, but much of what we take now doesn't have long histories of use because we use it differently now.  Take Vitamin C.  The ancients knew foods high in Vitamin C were good for you, but they didn't have the technology to isolate Vitamin C.  Because we can isolate things now using modern technology, what is known about it is brand new and therefore we can't say we know what the long-term benefits and detriments truly are.  The same is true for pharmaceutical and surgical medicine -- we've only been doing it for a very short time, and so we're still learning.  If I cite a reference or you cite a reference, anyone can come up with a contrary reference.  So it's best to do your own homework and make up your own mind unless there's consensus, and why I can list a ton of antioxidants, anyone who has any experience with food and supplements can do that, it's common knowledge these substances exist.  What isn't common knowledge is whether isolated supplements are necessary, work, are harmful, how much is best to take, etc.  We can only do the best we can with the information we have until as a species humans decide finding this stuff out is more important than other things we do.  So far that's not the case.  Peace again, and sorry for the long post but this stuff comes up all over this website and in our daily lives and it's important folks know we don't know what others tell us we know, we just have information and we all try to do the best we can and some try to harm us by spreading false information that makes them a lot of money.  So again, do your own homework and may it work out well for everyone.  Wow. too many words.  This stuff is what we used to argue about on the forums for natural medicine, but nobody contributes to them anymore, alas.

[troubadour]

Thanks for the info, I'll disengage here, take care, everyone, good luck.

[AnnieBrooke]

I agree, there are a lot of different ways to get sick from Covid-19, and it can attack different parts of the body. It would be hard to generalize from anyone's stories (or all of them) what Covid-19 might do to someone who gets it.

My cousin has Covid-19 right now, she's in her 20s.  She doesn't know where she got it. A few days into the illness, she was too weak to get out of bed. Her headaches hurt so much that she couldn't sleep all night. She's less weak by now, but it is taking a long time to get better. That's how it hit her. But it might hit the next person a different way.

[troubadour]

All the best to your cousin! Thank you for the info, God bless.

[AnxiousNoMore]

You can google to find thousands of stories of people all over the world who have recovered. There are lots of different effects of Covid infection- some people get specific problems that are not experienced by others, so there is no set pattern of recovery. Some get it with no symptoms which still involves a recovery and some are in hospital for a month before they recover.