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Trans=mental disorder

People label people with anxiety or depression as having a mental disorder, why is not the same for someone who is transgendered? Here is an article on what is being called "transabled" which is nothing short of a mental disorder. Maybe a closer look should be done with transgendered to see if this is more a mental disorder than anything else.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/becoming-disabled-by-choice-not-chance-transabled-people-feel-like-impostors-in-their-fully-working-bodies

OTTAWA — When he cut off his right arm with a “very sharp power tool,” a man who now calls himself One Hand Jason let everyone believe it was an accident.

But he had for months tried different means of cutting and crushing the limb that never quite felt like his own, training himself on first aid so he wouldn’t bleed to death, even practicing on animal parts sourced from a butcher.

“My goal was to get the job done with no hope of reconstruction or re-attachment, and I wanted some method that I could actually bring myself to do,” he told the body modification website ModBlog.

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His goal was to become disabled.

People like Jason have been classified as ‘‘transabled’’ — feeling like imposters in their bodies, their arms and legs in full working order.
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Avatar universal
Without civilized discussion how can we get anywhere in this world. People are/have gotten too sensitive. If you disagree with something then you are labeled a ______phobic. Was this country not founded on debate, discussion and questoning things?

I am sure if I posted this idea of looking deeper into the trans issue as a possible mental disorder I would be attacked. Because my thought does not fit in with the agenda of the day.

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Avatar universal
I know there have been some people going through a similar battle as Bruce Jenner who ended up killing themselves.  The battle was too much, depression set in and they felt like there was no where else to go.  I think that's tragic, but with depression, we can't force help upon those folks.  They have to want help, just like an addict has to want help.  They have to commit to their getting better and whatever program they are put on.  So maybe there is some mental illness out there regarding the situation.  I'm certainly not the guy to answer that question.

As well, I know there are people who've gone as far as Bruce Jenner has and it has opened their lives up.  For the first time ever, they feel free.  

As far as I am concerned, to each his own.  I've got no business in his business and I don't want him toying around in mine, unless he wants to fight with me rather than against me.

I do understand what you are talking about with the PC issue.  It seems as if everything is too delicate these days to actually sit down and discuss.  A couple of my adult nieces just had a knock down, drag out cat fight over education.  both were completely offended that the other had an opinion.
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649848 tn?1534633700
I wasn't referring to you, Mike, nor was I referring to Christians being victimized, hate crimes, or anything of that nature... Someone else mentioned Christianity, above and I merely made a comment in reference to that...
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Avatar universal
It is.

Brice I see the religion as a whole may not be under attack but a lot of people do not look fond upon Christianity and some do try to destroy it. Some of that is to blame on Christians and some is to blame on certain groups and media.
If you take a stance against gay marriage you get labeled by those who are non believers as homophobic, but you don't hear those same people saying anything about Muslims for non support of gay marriage nor do they say anything to native americans about non-support. So this an example why people may see the religion under attack.  

I think the religion will be fine, but the numbers are dropping which is a cause for concern if you follow Jesus.
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Avatar universal
Respectfully, I don't see "Christianity" being under attack.  if it were and I were a Christian, I'd have faith that we'd all be okay.

I guess "under attack" could be nearly anything depending on what definition you give the term.  What I said could be confused as an attack and that certainly is not what I am trying to do.

Christians do a good job at attacking "Christianity".  Look at how they've behaved in Ireland with the Protestants and the Catholics....
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Avatar universal
True and certain it is.......but I think being a victim of a hate crime is a more serious and significant form of attack. I mean that's palpable!
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Avatar universal
Being "attacked" come sin many forms. Some violent some non-violent. Just because they are not having hate crimes against them does not mean the religion is not under attack.
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Avatar universal
PART 2

Since 2001, nearly $60 million has been spent by just six individuals, who disseminate the kind of anti-Muslim propaganda that incites violence and leads to religiously motivated attacks on the Muslim community. Daniel Pipes, David Horowitz, David Yerushalmi, Frank Gaffney, Robert Spencer and Steven Emerson, have spent a huge amount of money in order to convince US Christians that they are the ones under attack. A network of organizations, politicians and media pundits help these six men disseminate anti-Islam rhetoric. This interactive website, based on Center For American Progress study titled ‘Fear Inc.‘ provides a good look at the politicians, pundits and organizations that are involved in the Islamophobic Network.

The third most common type of religiously motivated attacks in the US consists of attacks against people who practice a religion other than Christianity, Judaism, or Islam. The victims might be Buddhist, Hindu, or practice some other religion that doesn’t have enough followers in the US to warrant a category of its own. In spite of the fact that only about 2 percent of the population practices a faith other than the “big three,” attacks against these people make up about 11-and-a-half percent of all religiously motivated hate crimes.
There are dozens of right wing hate groups that are aggressively anti-Catholic, including the KKK.

To see a partial list of the “Christian” groups that openly persecute Catholics and spread anti-Catholic propaganda click here.

Attacks against people of the Catholic faith made up 6.1 percent of all religiously motivated hate crimes. Anti-Catholic sentiments among protestants have been on-going since the reformation. The right wing upped the attacks against members of the Catholic faith, after Pope Francis was sworn in March of 2013. In November, the Washington Post reported that groups of protestant ‘Christians’ had descended on services at several Catholic churches, disrupting mass by storming inside the churches, shouting through bullhorns and handing out fundamentalist literature. Rev. Mike Jones of St. Pius Catholic told the Washington Post:

     “We don’t have to go to the other side of the world to experience religious extremists.

    “We were assaulted by shouting and hatred being spewed by protesters standing at both our driveways. Armed with megaphones and brandishing signs, these ‘christians’ ranted for more than 30 minutes about everything they view as ‘evils’ of our Catholic faith. They attacked our dogmas, teachings, practices and leaders, including Pope Francis! Who are they? We don’t yet know.”

According to Pew Research, more than 78 percent of people in the US say they’re Christian. Of those, more than 50 percent are protestant and just under 24 percent are Catholic. Yet, attacks against Catholics occur almost twice as often as attacks against protestants, the group that consistently claims to be under attack in the United States.

Attacks against protestant Christians made up just 3.8 percent of all religiously motivated hate crimes. Yet, all we hear about is this supposed “war on Christianity.”

This chart from the Washington Post provides a visual reality check. If you were to stack the bars representing each group that is not protestant Christian on top of each other, and then compare that single bar to the small bar representing protestant Christians, then you’d have an even better representation of the non-existent war on Christianity.

A closer look at the hate crime data shows that in far more cases than not, right wing Christians are the instigators or even the perpetrators of a very large majority of the hate crimes committed in the US.

The ‘war on Christianity’ is a propaganda war. It’s a war that is being waged in the minds of the people who listen to hate radio and watch Fox News. In 2013 there were 7,242 hate crimes committed in the US. In total, crimes against protestant Christians amounted to .0051 percent, a tiny fraction of a percentage point.

Right wing fear and hate-mongering makes people believe that they’re under attack, when it’s clear that they’re not. It makes them believe that others are threatening them, even when the facts tell a very different story. A large compilation of research released over the summer showed that conservatives have a much larger negativity bias than other people. The research also showed that conservatives also have a greater tendency to ‘perceive threats,’ whether real or imaginary.

The question of whether it is nature or nurture is hard to answer. Are conservatives naturally fearful, even paranoid? Do they gravitate toward right wing media because of some trait or traits that they were born with? Or does being exposed to right wing media on a regular basis actually cause increased feelings of fear, along with exaggerated perception of threats?

If you listen to right wing radio or expose your brain to Fox News on a regular basis, and if you believe that everything you’re told is the “God’s truth” you would quickly start to also believe that almost everyone in the world is out to get you – from liberals to atheists, to the illuminati, to lizard people and possibly even big foot. The world is a great big giant conspiracy, run by the corrupt, God-hating government. Education is a liberal plot to destroy America and reading or listening to anything that isn’t generated and endorsed by the right wing is equal to risking your immortal soul’s damnation.

A quick search of youtube will give you an idea just how often the right wing media pushes the “war on Christianity” narrative to their followers.

Since other studies have demonstrated that low intelligence adults tend to gravitate to conservative ideology, it makes sense that some people just don’t have the mental capacity to think critically about the things they see, hear, or read. That makes them victims of the right wing misinformation network. But the fact that they may be victims, doesn’t make them any less dangerous to society.

There’s no doubt that there are many people on the right who absolutely believe there is a war on Christianity. What the statistics show us, however, is that the attacks are being waged by the right, not against them. It’s a perpetual cycle. The more they believe that everyone else is out to get them, the more they will continue to attack others in what they perceive as “self-defense,” or “patriotism” or even service to God.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/02/20/war-on-christianity-fbi-hate-crime-statistics-utterly-destroy-fox-news-lies/
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Avatar universal
If you are referring to me Barb I never said that. I did say that Christians are not being victimized here in the US - are not the victims of "hate crimes". Every group gets "put down" whatever that entails. Being put down is nothing - being the victim of crime is something and that is what I said about Christians - that here in the US they are not victims of hate crimes. If anyone wants to see the numbers here they are.

War On Christianity? FBI Hate Crime Statistics Utterly Destroy Fox News Lies
Author: Randa Morris February 20, 2015 11:10 am

The right wing insists that there’s a war on Christianity. FBI hate crimes statistics tell a very different story, however. Far from being the victims of religiously motivated attacks, hate crimes against protestants are almost non-existent, while crimes against Jews, Muslims and people of other faiths occur much more frequently, with more violent consequences.

According to the most recent FBI hate crimes statistics (2013), most hate crimes in the United States are not religiously motivated. Almost half of all hate crimes committed in the US are racially motivated. Out of those, more than 66 percent were directed at black people. Another 11 plus percent of hate crimes are motivated by an ethnic bias, such as a bias toward Arab Americans or toward Hispanic citizens. Altogether, attacks against minorities constitute more than 77 percent of all hate crimes in the US.

But we know that it’s white America that’s really under attack, right? At least that’s what they keep telling us on Fox News.

Anti-gay violence is the second most commonly occurring type of hate crime in the United States. Contrary to the right wing narrative that Christians are under attack by the gays, the list of violent crimes committed against the LGBT community speaks for itself. Where are the incidents of gays attacking Christians? They do not exist.

Finally, we get to the third most commonly occurring hate crime in the United States. Those are crimes committed because of a religious bias.
This is where we should see evidence of the war on Christianity.

As you can see from the chart above, about 17.4 percent of all hate crimes are religiously motivated.

Attacks against Jewish citizens are the most common religiously motivated attacks. Hate crimes against people of the Jewish faith constitute about 60 percent of all religiously motivated hate crimes in the US. Anti-Semitism is promoted and disseminated by right wing extremist groups such as the American Nazi Party, the KKK, the Christian Identity church, and a growing number of leaders in the mainstream conservative Christian community. Anti-Semitism is pushed by right wing conspiracy theorists, who claim a link between the ‘secret society of the Illuminati’ and the Jews. There are conspiracy theories about everything from the Jews and abortion to the Jews and Hollywood, ideas which are peddled by the likes of Alex Jones and Glen Beck. Many of these same groups spread the misinformation about minorities and members of the LGBT community, as well.

The second group that is attacked most often because of their faith includes people who practice the Islamic faith. 13 percent of all religiously motivated attacks are committed against Islamic citizens. That number is 5 times higher today than it was before 9/11.

A study conducted by the Center For American Progress links a rise in Islamophobic attacks against Muslims with an increase in anti-Muslim propaganda, which is spread directly by the right wing ‘Christian’ community.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/02/20/war-on-christianity-fbi-hate-crime-statistics-utterly-destroy-fox-news-lies/
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Avatar universal
Exploitation?  Sure, and there's money to be made there.  Not only for Jenner but anyone having anything to do with the show that comes out.

As for 'why doesn't he go all of the way', one can only speculate.  it's a decision he gets to make and either way, its of no interest to me.  if I had to guess, it probably has to do with the fact that he isn't gay.  (I saw that in an article in a magazine.)  he doesn't want to have sex with men.... That isn't the issue, I guess.  Again, it doesn't interest me and it doesn't affect me.  There is always something more important than the Kardashians and their ilk.  

As far as Christians being put down... consider who is doing it, what their agenda is and why it even matters to you.  Again, this isn't that important to me.  It doesn't affect me and I really wouldn't let it affect me.

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317787 tn?1473358451
I think you have every right to feel the way you do.  I hate it when people try to play devils advocate and tell someone they should not feel that way.
Kind of like when I lost all of my hair and people said, oh it's just hair.  Not to me, to me it was part of my identity.
I know that can't compare to what you feel, just wanted to say I understand.
They are your feelings and you have every right to them, if someone tries to tell you how to feel, you could tell them the same when they have a problem or feeling.  I think we all need to try to be more understanding of each other.
I think people are trying to make us feel better but it really doesn't help.
More empathy would be nice :)
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317787 tn?1473358451
When I watched the interview with Dianne Sawyer I was really touched by his stated struggles.
When he showed the two part episode of the Kardashians, I thought he was really exploiting  his "journey" as it was scripted.
Then to see the Vanity Fair cover; to hear he has filmed his transition for the E channel .  I just read he will be making something close to 5M for all of this, I am having a hard time believing all of this is going to help anyone.

I thought he was going to be a better person
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649848 tn?1534633700
I just saw a thing on FB that said "the same people applauding Bruce Jenner for "being himself" are the same people who condemned Tim Tebow and told him to "keep his beliefs to himself".  And someone had the audacity to tell me that Christians aren't being put down, these days... Really?

I don't want to push Christianity onto anyone else, but I agree with RGlass that the whole Bruce Jenner issue wreaks of exploitation, since the last I read, he has no plans to go through with the "entire" sex change operation... why do any of it, if he's not going to go the whole way?  He won't be satisfied, because he will still be a he...
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163305 tn?1333668571
Since humans can be rather complex, it's hard to put all of any of them in one basket.

So, sure, there could be some people who have mental issues, are confused and think they are transgendered when maybe they aren't. I'm sure if they would be in the vast minority. We could say the same about all kinds of human aliments or beliefs for that matter.

Honestly, I wish this whole thing was a non-issue. If someone says they are in the wrong body and surgery makes them feel better, I'm all for it.
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Avatar universal
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html#.VXdDKWfJDBA

I don't know if this was posted above.  Anyhow, making short work of it they say that there are physical differences between transgendered and normal minds.  I've seen the same said about gay minds v.s. straight minds.
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206807 tn?1331936184
I think the, the whole thing reeks of exploitation.  
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973741 tn?1342342773
I think their past (DNA) will always impact a transgendered individual.  It is a process to fully change your sex and those who proceed are sure that it is the right choice.  Who they are is much more than DNA.  

The only thing that is hard for me is exactly what makes you skeptical glass when it comes to Jenner.  That tv thing.  I guess Caitlin will have a tv show soon as well.  Perhaps the awareness is good (and needed) but hope they don't make a mockery of being transgendered.  
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Avatar universal
Thanks Ricky.  I've done a couple cursory searches and apparently I can get "non-identifying" information.  I guess that might solve half of my issue.  I'd never trade my mother for anything.  I had a great life all because of her.  She is responsible for me having manners, being a gentleman (when that actually happens).  Without her, who knows what I'd have turned out like.

As for my birthparents.  I don't want any more of a relationship other than being able to find some things out.  No way would I judge them.  I've got no clue what they were going through at the time and I'm grateful for the life they gave me.  Just want a few answers, you know?
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206807 tn?1331936184
It’s good to see a controversial conversation such as this without personal attacks because of disagreement (something we are all sometimes guilty of at times)

I’ll be the first to say I don’t believe all Gays, Lesbians, Transgender, etc, are born that way. Some are, Some not. Just one example- I have a friend 40ish that has been a lesbian (not bi-sexual) as long as I have known her. She is now pregnant.
Some are born Gay, some were molested, etc. but some people choose to be Gay or transgender. I don’t have to understand, I just have to accept it.

SM- “Well, not everyone believes in the same God as you Vance.  That's really important to remember” That couldn’t have come at a better time. Being a professed Agnostic, My biggest argument has been how can there be so many Religions claiming their doctrine to be the true doctrine but they all use the same book that is full of fairy tails and contradictions? Maybe he planned it that way so we would get toknow him ourselves instead depending on a book or a man to yell us about him.

Brice-I think it should be law that if a baby is adopted, all information should be available to the adopted once he/she is of legal age. No one knows what the mother is going through at that time and how much regret she may have, At least the adopted will have the option of making contact. I see almost 1 week trying to find their child or parent on Face book.

As far as Bruce Jenner goes ,because of rhe Kardashians, It’s hard for me not to be skeptical.
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Avatar universal
But if you say be who they are, does the DNA not say who we are?
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973741 tn?1342342773
I think it can be heartbreaking for transgendered individuals and I hope that we can all be supportive.  In the end, allowing people to be who they are is what matters.  
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Avatar universal
Thank you both for the posts to enlighten me.
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Avatar universal
"No one would touch doing a study to see if there was anything abnormal with the brain because they would be told they are not tolorant, anti-gay...etc.. So we don't know if there is any kid of issue. ..."

Actually there has been research into the brains of transgendered individuals.

Gender dysphoria

[Gender dysphoria (sometimes but not preferably gender identity disorder[1]) is felt by individuals who experience significant discontent from their gender assigned at birth. It is also a formal psychological and psychiatric diagnosis. Not all authorities classify this as a mental illness; the National Health Service in the United Kingdom describes it as "a condition for which medical treatment is appropriate in some cases."[2]

Recent research has indicated that transgender people tend to have the same or similar brain structures as their identified gender, even before hormone replacement.[3][4] Possible causes of gender dysphoria include genetic reasons and prenatal exposure to particular hormones, among others.

As a minor concession to the trans community, in response to complaints that "gender identity disorder" was a stigmatizing term, the American Psychiatric Association changed the "Gender Identity Disorder" diagnostic category in the DSM-5 to "Gender Dysphoria" in 2013.[5] The APA, as well as the larger Western healthcare structures, remains highly conservative on the issue, to the point that there are thriving black and grey markets for prescription hormones and some cosmetic treatments. Some clinics have sought to move past this issue by offering "informed consent" prescriptions, for which a psychiatric diagnosis is not required. ...]

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria

Structural Connectivity Networks of Transgender People
http://cercor.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2014/09/12/cercor.bhu194.full

Networks of the brain reflect the individual gender identity
January 7, 2015

[While the biological gender is usually manifested in the physical appearance, the individual gender identity is not immediately discernible and primarily established in the psyche of a human being. As the brain is responsible for our thoughts, feelings and actions, several research institutions worldwide are searching for the neural representation of gender identity.

In a study under the guidance of Rupert Lanzenbergerof the University Clinic for Psychiatry and Psychotherapy of the MedUni Vienna published in  the Journal of Neuroscience it was now possible to demonstrate neural correlates (analogies) of the identity perception in the network of the brain.

Trans-gender persons as well as female and male control subjects were examined by way of diffusion-based magnetic resonance tomography (MRT). The examination revealed significant differences in the microstructure of the brain connections between male and female control subjects. Transgender persons took up a middle position between both genders.

It was furthermore possible to detect a strong relationship between the microstructure connections among these networks and the testosterone level measured in the blood. Lanzenberger: "These results suggest that the gender identity is reflected in the structure of brain networks which form under the modulating influence of sex hormones in the course of the development of the nervous system."

The study subsidised by the science fund FWF was conducted by the Dutch Institute for Neurosciences in Amsterdam in the context of a cooperation project between various clinics and centres of the MedUni Vienna and the brain researcher **** F. Swaab. Researchers of the University Clinic for Psychiatry and Psychotherapy (Management: Siegfried Kasper), the Exzellenzzentrum für Hochfeldmagnetresonanz (Excellence centre for high field magnetic resonance) (Cooperation partner: Christian Windischberger, Management: Siegfried Trattnig and Ewald Moser), as well as the Universitätsklinik für Frauenheilkunde (University clinic for gynaecology) (Cooperation partner: Ulrike Kaufmann, Management: Peter Wolf Husslein) were involved.]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/01/150107082133.htm
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649848 tn?1534633700
I'm not saying I agree with this, but here's an article I ran across:

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change

By Michael W. Chapman | June 2, 2015 | 1:34 PM EDT

(CNSNews.com) --  Dr. Paul R. McHugh, the former psychiatrist-in-chief for Johns Hopkins Hospital and its current Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry, said that transgenderism is a “mental disorder” that merits treatment, that sex change is “biologically impossible,” and that people who promote sexual reassignment surgery are collaborating with and promoting a mental disorder.

Dr. McHugh, the author of six books and at least 125 peer-reviewed medical articles, made his remarks in a recent commentary in the Wall Street Journal, where he explained that transgender surgery is not the solution for people who suffer a “disorder of ‘assumption’” – the notion that their maleness or femaleness is different than what nature assigned to them biologically.

He also reported on a new study showing that the suicide rate among transgendered people who had reassignment surgery is 20 times higher than the suicide rate among non-transgender people. Dr. McHugh further noted studies from Vanderbilt University and London’s Portman Clinic of children who had expressed transgender feelings but for whom, over time, 70%-80% “spontaneously lost those feelings.”

While the Obama administration, Hollywood, and major media such as Time magazine promote transgenderism as normal, said Dr. McHugh, these “policy makers and the media are doing no favors either to the public or the transgendered by treating their confusions as a right in need of defending rather than as a mental disorder that deserves understanding, treatment and prevention.”

“This intensely felt sense of being transgendered constitutes a mental disorder in two respects. The first is that the idea of sex misalignment is simply mistaken – it does not correspond with physical reality. The second is that it can lead to grim psychological outcomes.”

The transgendered person’s disorder, said Dr. McHugh, is in the person’s “assumption” that they are different than the physical reality of their body, their maleness or femaleness, as assigned by nature. It is a disorder similar to a “dangerously thin” person suffering anorexia who looks in the mirror and thinks they are “overweight,” said McHugh.

This assumption, that one’s gender is only in the mind regardless of anatomical reality, has led some transgendered people to push for social acceptance and affirmation of their own subjective “personal truth,” said Dr. McHugh. As a result, some states – California, New Jersey, and Massachusetts – have passed laws barring psychiatrists, “even with parental permission, from striving to restore natural gender feelings to a transgender minor,” he said.

The pro-transgender advocates do not want to know, said McHugh, that studies show between 70% and 80% of children who express transgender feelings “spontaneously lose those feelings” over time. Also, for those who had sexual reassignment surgery, most said they were “satisfied” with the operation “but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn’t have the surgery.”

“And so at Hopkins we stopped doing sex-reassignment surgery, since producing a ‘satisfied’ but still troubled patient seemed an inadequate reason for surgically amputating normal organs,” said Dr. McHugh.

The former Johns Hopkins chief of psychiatry also warned against enabling or encouraging certain subgroups of the transgendered, such as young people “susceptible to suggestion from ‘everything is normal’ sex education,” and the schools’ “diversity counselors” who, like “cult leaders,” may “encourage these young people to distance themselves from their families and offer advice on rebutting arguments against having transgender surgery.”

Dr. McHugh also reported that there are “misguided doctors” who, working with very young children who seem to imitate the opposite sex, will administer “puberty-delaying hormones to render later sex-change surgeries less onerous – even though the drugs stunt the children’s growth and risk causing sterility.”

Such action comes “close to child abuse,” said Dr. McHugh, given that close to 80% of those kids will “abandon their confusion and grow naturally into adult life if untreated ….”

“’Sex change’ is biologically impossible,” said McHugh. “People who undergo sex-reassignment surgery do not change from men to women or vice versa. Rather, they become feminized men or masculinized women. Claiming that this is civil-rights matter and encouraging surgical intervention is in reality to collaborate with and promote a mental disorder.”
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