Anti-Freedom, religion of HATE

[Vance2335]

Stop with the theory that Islam is a religion of peace. We see nothing but hate and violence from Islam. We never hear moderate's speak out. Someone I know is a prominate black muslim in NYC, on facebook does he say anything about what is going on in France? Nope, silence from him. Sickening.

EURABIA DEBATE ERUPTS...
Gunfire, explosions heard where suspects cornered...
Kouachi Rap Video...
FACEBOOK page...
Before attack, French began ceding control of neighborhoods to Islamists...
Terrorists shift to frequent, soft targets...
Jewish residents flee...
WIRES: REUTERS... AFP...
LIVE: FRANCE 24...
Europe's anti-Islamisation groups look to spread movement...
Le Pen: 'Time's up for denial and hypocrisy'...
Muslim Cleric Defends Slaughter...
NYTIMES deletes Islamic proselytizing during attack...
'You must convert to Islam, read the Quran and cover yourself'...
Cleric asks radio host: Are you Jewish?
Islamic immigration to USA on rise...
Britain's MI5 warns al Qaeda planning mass attacks on West...
Second Standoff at Kosher Market in Paris...
FIVE HOSTAGES...
Female accomplice...
Incident at Eiffel Tower?
All shops in famed Jewish neighborhood ordered closed by police...

HEBDO SUSPECTS CORNERED
HOLDING HOSTAGE
WANT 'TO DIE AS MARTYRS'

[specialmom]

In all honesty, I've also am friends with Muslims that I could only describe as kind, warm, generous and peaceful.  I don't support terrorism, violence, extremists in any way.  Surely all know that.  But I am not afraid of someone just because they are Muslim.  And I don't agree with those who do and find that to be prejudice.  

Thanks iladvocate for the information as well.  I just can't single out an entire religion for the criminal and insane acts of some.  

[orphanedhawk]

I support freedom of religion.

While traveling I met countless very kind Islamic people and YOU are calling their religion a religion of hate. That is hate mongering.
I do not support terrorism or violence from any people but I'm not so easily led to believe it's because of the religion one believes in.

[ILADVOCATE]

   This is a complex situation because the terrorism in France (and everywhere) must be immediately addressed.   However the political balance there as regards many groups is a difficult situation. What this article doesn't focus on as much (I was in France as well in the 80's when the political party discussed below began to take power, many Jewish people felt uneasy) is that the political party they discussed is also quite anti-Semitic:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-politics/11343571/Charlie-Hebdo-Will-Marine-Le-Pen-destroy-fragile-France.html
   At this point in time its essential to reach out to Muslims who are not fundamentalist for several reasons. One reason is to stop further recruiting by Isis. The FBI is creating outreach groups that are working to stop this and discourage people from joining them. This is essential as (but on a far more severe level) like gangs they are seeking disaffected people and young people. Also by working with moderate Muslims they can encourage   people who are Muslim to report people who have potential associations with terrorists.
    There are terrorists elements in other religious groups even including Buddhism:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_violence
Historically the culture of Islam did contribute to civilization such
as early work in medicine:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Zakariya_al-Razi
Also during the time of the Ottoman Empire Jewish people
were able to escape political persecution from other countries (including
some ancestors of some of my family members). In more modern times some Islamic writers were opposed to the fundamentalist elements and were persecuted for it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blind_Owl
   No one should make any attempts to be an apologist at this time. As regards what any specific religion stands for people who are fundamentalist  and seeking hatred can always find a way to misuse it. As per immediate pragmatic solutions to stopping further converts to terrorist causes they exist and this needs to be addressed before it worsens.

[Vance2335]

Shame on you for supporting terror.

[desrt]

Did you go to the site Barb was quoting from?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

You don't need to read Arabic to understand what that agenda's about.



My idea about ISIS and company is, that whichever Qatari, Saudi, or other source gave them their training and the seed money to get started, wanted to get exactly the reaction that el and Vance have given. Played them to a tee. The members of the so called caliphate have been told to stir up religious hatred among the easily led. And they've succeeded.

[orphanedhawk]

I was treated very hospitably by many many Muslims while I traveled. I don't care for religious dogma of any kind but I will not call any one religion a religion of hate.
That is war mongering propaganda.

Shame on you Vance for trying to instill more hate into the world.

[orphanedhawk]

If I told you 9-11 was an inside job you'd probably go back to calling me a tinhatter and we wouldn't want that.

Barb~ I don't know what version of the Koran you read but the one I read wasn't anything like what you're talking about. True Muslims will say if you haven't read it in Arabic, the language it was written in, then you haven't read it.( which means I haven't read it too)

[Vance2335]

They are the norm when the "norm" does not speak up.

[desrt]

As someone with dual Israeli-American citizenship said to me:

"Nobody has posted a defense to acts of terrorism by Muslim extremists. The point is to emphasize that the people committing these atrocities are not the norm. They are extremists, Jihadists.
When making a comparison to domestic terrorism the point is to say that while many people distrust and even hate our Government, few will commit acts of terror against it. It is simply an analogy guys.
Rather than get worked up over the hatred spewing in the world, try looking to the positive, the people who help and save others out of their common humanity."


"To exclude, marginalize or persecute ordinary Muslims is to succumb to the very intolerance we claim to denounce."

- Yascha Mounk, fellow at the New America Foundation

[brice1967]

Not to mention some of our nations "leaders" want us to empathize with these people.

[Vance2335]

Sick people on this forum.
What terror attacked killed more people then any thing else? 9/11. Now STOP TRYING TO JUSTIFY TERROR ON AMERICA.

OK City bombing was not religious it was anti-government. Unibomber was anti government, Columbine was stupid kids.

[el_em_en_oh]

Are we REALLY having this discussion?

Are you REALLY trying to justify Islamic terrorists that have struck on American soil, and elsewhere?

Are you REALLY attempting to minimize the damage they're caused to American & Westernized countries?

We have drones flying over our cities because of extremist Islam.
We have the NSA listening to our phone calls and monitoring our email, because of extremist Islam.
We have to be strip-searched at the airport(s) because of extremist Islam.
The Patriot Act... need I say more?

And that's just to name a few.

Extremist Islam has fundamentally changed how Americans & people in Westernized countries, live their lives.

[brice1967]

So when they say "on American soil" they aren't counting all of the incidents at embassies and other American soil in foreign countries?  That changes the numbers substantially, I believe.

[Barb135]

"Question:

Does the Quran really contain dozens of verses promoting violence?

Summary Answer:

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule.  Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding.  Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text.  They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.  

The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God, however this can work both ways.  Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence.  Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny.  Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed.  Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history."

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm
********************************************************************************

The link actually contains passages from the Quran, not only advocating violence, but actually demanding it; it's pretty interesting reading.  I'm a little rusty on my Bible reading, don't think you'll find anything like it in the Bible.

This isn't to say that I believe that all Muslims are violent, because I don't.  I've met and actually became acquainted with some of them.

[orphanedhawk]

Non-Muslims Carried Out More than 90% of All Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Soil

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/05/muslims-only-carried-out-2-5-percent-of-terrorist-attacks-on-u-s-soil-between-1970-and-2012.html

[brice1967]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamic_terrorist_attacks

The above link will take you to the acts of Islamic terrorists since the 1980's.  Pretty alarming, the lengths these guys go to and apparently don't seem to care of their own people.

I don't know if I know a Muslim. If I do, they haven't caused any acts of terror and been popped for it.  I believe that I can safely say with a great deal of accuracy that not all Muslims are terrorists.  Conversely, not all terrorists are Muslim.  

Pertaining to Christians killing millions.  The killed millions of people under the guise of religion.  Not so much today.  Granted, the catholics and protestants in Ireland often have a car bombing, just to keep everyone on their toes.

[orphanedhawk]

Historically speaking Christians killed millions, they started the Crusades, Christians instituted the pogroms, Christians killed millions of indigenous peoples because they considered them savages because they didn't accept Christ as their savior, and oh yea, there was the inquisition and all the Jews they killed too, not to mention practitioners of pagan religions.

Timothy McVeigh who bombed Oklahoma city was not Muslim, the bombers at Columbine were not Muslim.

I do not condone the violence but who started bombing the poop out in the Islamic countries in the last decade(s) ??? oh, yea, that was us as in the U.S. They have a clear reason to hate us yet, when I was traveling in Islamic countries from 2001-2004 I met countless Islamic people who wanted to prove to me that they were good people.

Don't believe the hate propaganda against any religion !!!!!

[el_em_en_oh]

typo: BARKING up the wrong tree

[el_em_en_oh]

The west will never understand extremist Muslim's.

We cannot negotiate with them.

They hate us. All of us. They hate everything the west stands for.

Trying to pacify them by not drawing cartoons of their god & savior, Mohammed, won't do the trick.

The only way they'll be satisfied, is if we:

1) convert to Islam
or
2) die

If we do one of those things, we can satisfy them.

Anything else... we're baring up the wrong tree.

The only way to be rid of this terrorist mess, is to kill them all.

Period.

[desrt]

Nowhere have I excused or backed terrorism, in fact quite the opposite. It's hate mongers everywhere (especially those who are so easily manipulated) that are the danger to all of us.

[Vance2335]

You are trying to excuse what is currently being done with what was done in the past.
The estimate of 20% of people currently following Islam are extreme.

Where did I minimize anything? My words "those were sick individulas".

There were not committing mass murder either. USS Cole, 9/11, Spain bombings, Boston Marathon bombings, the violence and beheadings in Iraq, France shootings, shootings in Russia.

So if you want to put up some nut christians and compair them to the movement going on in Islam, so be it but you are just wrong.

[desrt]

"I address myself now to all the racists, Islamophobes and anti-Semites that one must not confuse extremists with Muslims," the brother of slain officer Ahmed Merabet said during a news conference. "Mad people have neither color nor religion."



I would say anyone trying to minimize clinic bombings, murder, kidnapping, etc, etc, is the one backing terrorism.

[Vance2335]

So yes there has been a little more "violence" then bombings that was spoken about. But the violence is still few.

WHY ARE YOU BACKING TERRORISM??

[el_em_en_oh]

Not all Muslim's are terrorists, but all terrorists ARE Muslim (in general).

Sure, there's the odd school-shooting that doesn't have ties to extremist Muslim's, but the vast majority of terror activity going on around the world, is being perpetrated by Muslim's.

When was the last time you hear about Jewish terrorists? or Catholic terrorists? or Southern Baptist terrorists? or Buddist terrorists?

Maybe time for some ethnic cleansing, in the form of eradication of an entire religion. Give them an island in the S.Pacific, and let them bomb themselves out of existence.